VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Idontplay]

Maybe the one which own of will own Honey Select copyrights could create a graphic engine based on it.

 

[TD1900]

Illusion dying shouldn't really have an impact on the project. At least not in a technical sense. It's not like they have been patching and maintaining HS1 for a long time.

The only questionable thing is who the rights will end up going to and if they will try to exert control over projects made with the studio, like Fakku attempted to do a few years ago.

 

[Takkatakka]

Illusion dying shouldn't really have an impact on the project. At least not in a technical sense. It's not like they have been patching and maintaining HS1 for a long time.

The only questionable thing is who the rights will end up going to and if they will try to exert control over projects made with the studio, like Fakku attempted to do a few years ago.

Maybe you developers should coordinate and try to bid on the rights for HS1 and 2 yourself, like Caribdis is joking about: https://f95zone.to/threads/eternum-v0-5-public-caribdis.93340/post-11231173

 

[Takkatakka]

i wonder if the next update will focus on mina's bicurious route from her bucket list

The next update will focus on Veronica.

 

[Bill Temple]

Maybe you developers should coordinate and try to bid on the rights for HS1 and 2 yourself, like Caribdis is joking about: https://f95zone.to/threads/eternum-v0-5-public-caribdis.93340/post-11231173

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder what would be a competitive offer if Runey, Caribdis, Gil, TD, Jikei, Zanith, Jestur, Altos, Herdone, and ILS all pooled resources? Distributing the risk across all those most likely to be able to recoup the cost seems like a reasonable business move depending on the price.

Then they can become the corporate overlords meddling in the newcomers' work.

 

[BrockLanders]

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder what would be a competitive offer if Runey, Caribdis, Gil, TD, Jikei, Zanith, Jestur, Altos, Herdone, and ILS all pooled resources? Distributing the risk across all those most likely to be able to recoup the cost seems like a reasonable business move depending on the price.

Then they can become the corporate overlords meddling in the newcomers' work.

If I was in a position where I could divert some of a revenue stream into exploratory investment budgets in the tens of millions, I would totally do this. It couldn't be more than a million or so, could it? Porn IPs in Japan are like salt in American grocery stores, right? Like there's so many that margins are super low... that would be hilarious if our favorite deviant devs suddenly went all Green Bay Packers and owned the means of production XD

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

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"My friend is interested in your friend."

Spoiler: Preview

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No idea what to make of this caption...

If I was in a position where I could divert some of a revenue stream into exploratory investment budgets in the tens of millions, I would totally do this. It couldn't be more than a million or so, could it? Porn IPs in Japan are like salt in American grocery stores, right? Like there's so many that margins are super low... that would be hilarious if our favorite deviant devs suddenly went all Green Bay Packers and owned the means of production XD

Seriously, shame that the costs for them to aquire the engine are likely too prohibitive.

 

[Bill Temple]

If I was in a position where I could divert some of a revenue stream into exploratory investment budgets in the tens of millions, I would totally do this. It couldn't be more than a million or so, could it? Porn IPs in Japan are like salt in American grocery stores, right? Like there's so many that margins are super low... that would be hilarious if our favorite deviant devs suddenly went all Green Bay Packers and owned the means of production XD

It would be awesome, and not an impossible dream to attain. I mean, when a company's closing up shop, they'll sell at whatever price they can get. $100 million or $1: anything greater than zero is a win. Since they're shutting down, it demonstrates to everyone that their core products aren't financially viable, so whoever picks them up should only do it at pennies on the dollar, unless there's a lot of competitive bidding from interested parties.

My suggestion was more like an owners group for a sports franchise, but if we're thinking about using the Packers as our model, they're "community owned". So maybe we should set up a gofundme with a goal of JP¥ 3billion? I'm spit-balling numbers here. Think we can acquire rights to all HS and Koikatsu properties for that?

 

[BrockLanders]

It would be awesome, and not an impossible dream to attain. I mean, when a company's closing up shop, they'll sell at whatever price they can get. $100 million or $1: anything greater than zero is a win. Since they're shutting down, it demonstrates to everyone that their core products aren't financially viable, so whoever picks them up should only do it at pennies on the dollar, unless there's a lot of competitive bidding from interested parties.

My suggestion was more like an owners group for a sports franchise, but if we're thinking about using the Packers as our model, they're "community owned". So maybe we should set up a gofundme with a goal of JP¥ 3billion? I'm spit-balling numbers here. Think we can acquire rights to all HS and Koikatsu properties for that?

I have no idea if that's a fair value... it seems so high for such a niche product. I dont know, it all throws my instincts off lol

 

[Takkatakka]

No idea what to make of this caption...

Seems like Veronica and the MC are going into a bar and one of the other patrons there is interested into the MC. So she sends her friend over to sound things out. Could of course also be that the woman in the screen shots wants to flirt with Veronica and just creates a pretense to get rid of the MC.

 

[camube]

Seems like Veronica and the MC are going into a bar and one of the other patrons there is interested into the MC. So she sends her friend over to sound things out. Could of course also be that the woman in the screen shots wants to flirt with Veronica and just creates a pretense to get rid of the MC.

veronica's ex-wife perhaps?

 

[Takkatakka]

veronica's ex-wife perhaps?

I don't know...that depends who says that sentence to whom. Original I thought the woman in the shot was saying it to Veronica about the MC, but you're right: It kinda makes more sense if someone says that towards the MC about Veronica.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

All valid possibilities considereing how out of context the quote may be.

 

[ename144]

I figured we wouldn't have another dev diary until next week, but apparently I was wrong!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 59

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As TD said, he and GIL have added 239 statics, 13 animations and 4539 words in the last two weeks. That's an average of roughly 1120 statics, 6.5 animations and 2270 words per week over that period; the overall average is roughly 120 statics, 2.8 animations and 3270 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 3 began, Here are the charts for Week 13(ish):

Spoiler: Charts To Finish Strong?

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As you can see, progress on statics and words remains fairly steady, while animation rate has jumped up significantly. That makes sense since we're presumably in the thick of Veronica's event so they're probably a top priority. Oddly we're still well below the animation count for Ch1 Updates 1&2, so I'm guessing Tuesday's activities are going to be less animated than the previous days.

If so, it sounds like we're probably looking at a mid-to-late August release if they decide to release the update before tackling Wednesday's activities. I've been assuming that will be the plan (since I'd expect Wednesday to match the current size of the update), but perhaps that won't be the case since TD is still mulling over the cutoff point.

I'm definitely eager to see Veronica's content so I certainly wouldn't complain about a less massive update in this case. Then again I'm also curious to see the likely events on Wednesday, too (particularly what our interactions with Felicia will be like if we aren't on her path), so it's not like I'm unwilling to wait for a bigger chunk of content. But for now we'll just have to keep waiting patiently and watch the numbers tick up until we know what the next move will be.

 

[TD1900]

Oddly we're still well below the animation count for Ch1 Updates 1&2, so I'm guessing Tuesday's activities are going to be less animated that the previous days.

To be perfectly clear, we're not too deep into stage 3 of Veronica's content.

There's still a lot of animations coming, including some that are already made, but we aren't counting in the totals yet. I don't think (with Tuesday alone) that we'll reach Ch4Up1/Up2 numbers, but it might come respectably close. As an aside, some of the animations might surprise people. GIL has dipped his toe into adding some animated flourishes outside of sex scenes, to awesome results.

 

[ename144]

To be perfectly clear, we're not too deep into stage 3 of Veronica's content.

There's still a lot of animations coming, including some that are already made, but we aren't counting in the totals yet. I don't think (with Tuesday alone) that we'll reach Ch4Up1/Up2 numbers, but it might come respectably close. As an aside, some of the animations might surprise people. GIL has dipped his toe into adding some animated flourishes outside of sex scenes, to awesome results.

Interesting. We're currently at 56% of Chapter 4 Update 1's animation count (not counting any unregistered completions). We're closing ground at ~10.5% per week thanks to the recent growth spurt. So we're still a couple weeks out from what I'd put as the ballpark "respectably close" zone. Not that I'd mind winding up shy of that mark; the game was great even before it added animations, and Ch4 Up3 already has a solid render count and conspicuously high number of words. Plus, 'animations' are a notoriously fungible metric since a given animation can vary widely by length. The important thing is that the update delivers on story, character and sexiness. Animations aren't the only - or even necessarily the best - tool in the toolbox when it comes to meeting those needs.

In fact, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about adding non-sex animations. They can certainly be a good thing in the right circumstances, but I've seen so many games lose their mind trying to animate utterly trivial details to no real effect beyond ballooning the development time (*cough* BaDIK *cough*cough*). You'd think they were trying to make an animated movie rather than a visual novel.

I don't mean to sound as insulting as I probably do here; you two have done an excellent job making the visuals serve the game's needs so if you say the non-sex animations are worth adding, I believe you. I'm not even sure how long the animations take to create in HS vs a 3D rendering engine. It's basically just a kneejerk reaction on my part. But I'd be lying if I said my eyebrow didn't raise when I read it.

 

[TD1900]

In fact, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about adding non-sex animations. They can certainly be a good thing in the right circumstances, but I've seen so many games lose their mind trying to animate utterly trivial details to no real effect beyond ballooning the development time (*cough* BaDIK *cough*cough*). You'd think they were trying to make an animated movie rather than a visual novel.

Eh, I tend not to like them either tbh.

For one, with animations that don't loop, it plays against the strengths of the medium. Namely, the precise marriage of text and images. Being able to break up lines and thoughts across different camera angles and other visual punctuation gives you way more narrative control than playing an animation, having it mismatched with player's reading speeds, and necessitating a player wait for it to be done before they can click-to-continue.

There's also the question of execution, because development time aside, they usually don't even look very good. Sex is a relatively simple act, yet animating it to look natural is difficult enough. More complicated, full-body animations is a whole other undertaking and tend to just look unnatural and jarring. Additionally, I can also think of a few examples that have caused me to roll my eyes ("Take it easy, Stanley Kubrick") as the result of unnatural camera dolly/crane-type movements. Like you more or less said, some people forget that they're a visual novel.

Of course, learning new things is half the fun of this job in my opinion, so I'm not going to deride anyone for going out of their comfort zone and attempting something difficult or new, but you can lose sight of the big picture. Keeping things in perspective is one of the most important skills for a lone (or two man) developer in my opinion. Balancing your financial goals against your creative ones, your project's quality vs the time you want to deliver it in, what works for you versus how effective it is for your audience, and keeping in mind why you're doing it in the first place is a lot of balls in the air. In the case of BaDIK, when you're making that kind of money, I suppose things get a lot more freeing if your highest priority is your own sense of quality.

Uh, random tangent aside, trust me when I say it's nothing like you fear in our case. I tried to be exact when I called them flourishes. They're used very sparing and thoughtfully timed to add punch to specific key moments.

However, I would say that myself, wouldn't it?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Sex is a relatively simple act, yet animating it to look natural is difficult enough. More complicated, full-body animations is a whole other undertaking and tend to just look unnatural and jarring. Additionally, I can also think of a few examples that have caused me to roll my eyes ("Take it easy, Stanley Kubrick") as the result of unnatural camera dolly/crane-type movements. Like you more or less said, some people forget that they're a visual novel.

Yep, this. Anyone who's done animation knows that day-to-day non repetitive motions are HARD. Final boss challenge is like making a full-body dancing animation that's not just twerking or gyrating. I don't think I've ever seen an adult game with realistic dancing.

The most common offender of #2 is the pause-circlepan-resume. Everytime I see that I see a masturbatory exercise for the developer (bonus -points if it's unskippable, holding the captive audience hostage).

Smart devs realize they're not trying to compete with top industry animators at EA, Blizzard, or Respawn etc. They focus on giving us something we CANT see with the others; semi realistic sex animations.



One thing I'll give more credit to PC than other devs/games is the shot direction. Too often in porn games there isn't actually much porn. By that I mean theyll have concealed penetration, or awkward angles etc. Porn isn't supposed to look like real people having sex, it's supposed to show the viewer those people having sex. Off the top of my head two examples of good shot direction/framing in PC are the felicia post truth/dare couch bj/facefuck; with her head and expression in the frame, and the veronica photoshoot bj where it's a low angle behind mc while hes stroking himself in her mouth.

 

[TD1900]

One thing I'll give more credit to PC than other devs/games is the shot direction. Too often in porn games there isn't actually much porn. By that I mean theyll have concealed penetration, or awkward angles etc. Porn isn't supposed to look like real people having sex, it's supposed to show the viewer those people having sex.

As the Romans said, memento porni. Remember that you (have to) porn.

 

[rippertipper]

Uh, random tangent aside, trust me when I say it's nothing like you fear in our case. I tried to be exact when I called them flourishes. They're used very sparing and thoughtfully timed to add punch to specific key moments.

However, I would say that myself, wouldn't it?

Hell yeah. Dope. That's the sort of specific animation type I was more hoping for. I always appreciate when something special is used sparingly to better maintain it's special status. I think having the entire human stream of consciousness, via the internet, at our fingertips has made a lot of people (myself as a writer included a lot of the time) forget the old adage "less is more." Either way, ya got me hyped.