VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[satirious]

Even though it's a criminal enterprise there are connections that can be made for the future and current times even if he leaves the club.

Not sure what you mean by a now problem. Are you saying the MC can only take his revenge right now at this very moment instead of planning out something(that's future)? Van D's plan is already in motion and is going to happen with or without the MC's help, his help would probably make it easier, increase the success chance and possibly speed up the timeframe. So I'm not really understanding how you dismiss it as being only a future option, everything is the future unless it's happening right now. If he decided to blow the building up tomorrow it's still the future not now. I think you meant current in which case Van D's plan is current as well and in fact is already in motion. As of now that seems to be the most logical path to getting revenge on the Club's leadership.

Let me put it a different way then.
Let's start with Chuck as he's the most "in the know" where Edwin is concerned.

Chuck knows what the MC's past is like because of Ian and his own personal interaction with him. If TD had omitted the rage, impulse control issues and violence, then putting the MC in an environment with the likes of Kathleen, Warren and August would be low risk. Your typical nerd wall flower that can be guided and groomed. If anything with regards to Chuck/Victoria comes out later, he's in a pretty good situation to smooth that over and, as you said, make amends. That isn't the case though.

Chuck took Edwin, as written, and put him in a den of predators and handed him on a platter to Kathleen. It's difficult to believe he doesn't understand what that could lead to. He set up a smart, educated and potentially vengeful person in a place that can much more easily unravel his previous facade of caring mentor.

Kathleen is most likely in the know about Edwin's past as well. Yet, she risks making him an enemy multiple times. Scratch Edwin's past and it makes sense that Kathleen wants to groom another pay date buddy. At worst, she gets one more person to torment. At best, she gets her new sidekick to validate her world view. All fine well and good as long as Edwin isn't a person that, not long ago, showed a willingness to get physical with no consideration of the consequences.

As for the now versus future problem. It became a now issue and not a tomorrow issue the second Kathleen dialed Victoria's number that first time. That is, if Edwin actually gives two shits about his mother. So, VanD's plan to one day take down the club is fine if you don't care that Chuck, Kathleen, August, Warren, Jacob etc. will target Victoria with violence if they get a whiff that Edwin plans to help VanD do what he is doing.

 

[Ottoeight]

I remembered the incident when Katlin called MC's mother. That is, this is a hint that Kat can easily get to Victoria if MC starts doing crazy things. In other words, MC is tied hand and foot. I hope after this "festival of unbridled fun" with the participation of the Carnations, he will be free in his actions. However, I am not so sure about Rosalind - she can become a "house girl" for some time.

My take on the Carnations is that they are totally at the Club owners' mercy, and the only people who can help them are Edwin, Hana and Ian. And Edwin, Hana and Ian have almost no leverage.

Anyway, as the Authors said, the story ends on week 4th, saturday night (the night of the final exhibition). After that, we'll have an epilogue.

So, sorry but... the story is a recount of the exhibition days. What happens next is... well, another story.

 

[Ottoeight]

Chuck isn't really messing with the MC as much as he seems to be trying to guide him and possibly make amends. He warns Kat about going too far with the Rose porno scene to the point of an implied threat to Kat about him being like family. As we don't quite know the history between Chuck and Victoria yet, we can't truly say what happened. Did Chuck sit in on one of Don's movie shoots and see Victoria? Was this before or after Ian and Edwin met? Maybe he saw her at a filming or in a movie and later met her as Ian's BF's mom/person Ian looked up to as a mother and helped her/convinced her to get away from doing porn. Until we know for sure what the past is between them we can only speculate.

TBF your overlooking the fact that this could be a catalyst for him helping/siding with Van Doren to take down the Club's leadership. We've already seen the in home meeting where VD warns him, maybe this could be the factor that pushes him to align with them to remove the current leadership. They have the resources and are already working on their plan. Remember it's not the club he would want revenge on it's the people responsible, taking Kat and Chuck(if he had a negative hand in Vic's past) out of the picture somehow (not killing but destroying their reputations/lives) would be a fitting revenge. You can add others along the way who are involved like Warren with Kat and maybe Grace with Chuck just to tie up other loose ends. This is all just speculation but if Edwin wants to get revenge on Kat and Chuck siding with VD would help him out immensely.

BTW the tuition deal was from Chuck not from the club. The deal is to work for the club and Chuck will pay his tuition. This has a multiple purposes: getting Ian back with a "good" influence, helping out the club(replacing the "missing" guy), letting the MC explore his wilder desires and getting "life experience". Not to mention banging all the hotties along the way. So knowing that in theory, if Kat pushed the MC too far and he left because of that, Chuck could still pay for his tuition if he chose to. Not saying he would just that he could.

Uncle Chuck making amends ?!?!?

Just remember the scene where Chuck and Ian play go using a house girl as furniture.

So much for the person Chuck really is.

So much for as the so-called Ian's "introspection" path.

Come on guys.

 

[MoBy28]

My take on the Carnations is that they are totally at the Club owners' mercy, and the only people who can help them are Edwin, Hana and Ian. And Edwin, Hana and Ian have almost no leverage.

Anyway, as the Authors said, the story ends on week 4th, saturday night (the night of the final exhibition). After that, we'll have an epilogue.

So, sorry but... the story is a recount of the exhibition days. What happens next is... well, another story.

I'd have to disagree seeing as how any of the Carnations can willingly bow out of the competition at any time. Granted the club can try to disuade that by numerous means. Explain how Felicia who is here by her own choice not to pay off debts or anything like that but to make connections and try to make something of her own outside of her husband's influence is at their mercy? For example depending on choice Felicia will pay off part of Rose's debt, that said Felicia could theoretically pay off both her competitor's debts thereby removing any need for them to be in the competition and by default winning the competition. I see Edwin and Hana trying to help others, Ian not so much yet. Hana has plenty of leverage as part owner but has to take the business aspect into consideration, Edwin while not having leverage has the ability to get others to help out in different ways. So while they are "at the mercy" during the exhibitions, I wouldn't say they are at the mercy of the club owners at all. They are choosing to participate because of the prize, in order to win they have to complete and win the challenges placed in front of them each weekend. They can always bow out but they are choosing to participate as it is an easy and fast solution to most of their problems. So basically they aren't forced to do anything really, they are doing it by choice(Edwin's job is to make sure they keep making that choice). That isn't at someone's mercy if you have a choice to do or not to do.

 

[dolfe67]

Just remember the scene where Chuck and Ian play go using a house girl as furniture.

I don't see any problem

 

[ArsenHumby]

Learning Darius' girlfriend is still in proximity to the club
Hana falling into her role as an owner
Edwin + Kat potentially breaking bad
The stuff with Ian's Mom
Ian potentially learning about Vicky's porn past
Edwin potentially deleting his mommy issues
Positioning Mina down a NUMBER of roads

I get being disappointed in the amount of lewds, but to think this is an inconsequential update story wise is wild to me.

If there is no good story this game may as well be a normal honey select h-comic. Reason why this is top 1 in F95 is because it has everything from good visuals to a good story, hence why people are still talking about the update 1 week later.

 

[MoBy28]

Uncle Chuck making amends ?!?!?

Just remember the scene where Chuck and Ian play go using a house girl as furniture.

So much for the person Chuck really is.

So much for as the so-called Ian's "introspection" path.

Come on guys.

What does Chuck treating a house girl as furniture have to do with making amends to someone he thinks of as almost family? Does he consider the house girl family? People can still be assholes to others but make amends to those they consider friends/family.

As for Ian's introspection path, it is still in the works it's not just gonna happen overnight. I think his introspection might only be towards the women he is in a relationship with and how to treat them better not I must treat all women with respect and courtesy. Plus she is a prostitute, most men don't exactly treat them with respect.

 

[Turret]

As for the now versus future problem. It became a now issue and not a tomorrow issue the second Kathleen dialed Victoria's number that first time. That is, if Edwin actually gives two shits about his mother. So, VanD's plan to one day take down the club is fine if you don't care that Chuck, Kathleen, August, Warren, Jacob etc. will target Victoria with violence if they get a whiff that Edwin plans to help VanD do what he is doing.

It is unclear currently if Abel and Sophia want to bring down the Club totally or "just" a change of leadership. Going by what we know at the moment it is most probably the latter (the two show their disdain for Chuck, Kat and August and not the club in general) and the club will likely continue to exist. Probably under the leadership of Ian, Hana and Edwin. Mostly the former two, since Edwin´s studies will take a lot of his time.

If Edwin decides to throw in his lot with Abel and Sophia he clearly should be careful, but the danger is not quite as high as you think. Currently Kat for instance believes van Doren is on her side (which he is clearly not and he even gave a cyphered warning to Kat, but one she overheard or disregarded).

I am replaying from the beginning to fresh up some knowledge and to see the changes done and there are some. But more important is seeing some scenes anew. What I recognised is that the possible way towards Abel and Sophia was started early on. When they first meet face to face and our MC is fanboying quite a bit, van Doren is not only flattered, but "just throws" in a comment, if Edwin would not like to go into medical research later on.

 

[satirious]

It is unclear currently if Abel and Sophia want to bring down the Club totally or "just" a change of leadership. Going by what we know at the moment it is most probably the latter (the two show their disdain for Chuck, Kat and August and not the club in general) and the club will likely continue to exist. Probably under the leadership of Ian, Hana and Edwin. Mostly the former two, since Edwin´s studies will take a lot of his time.

If Edwin decides to throw in his lot with Abel and Sophia he clearly should be careful, but the danger is not quite as high as you think. Currently Kat for instance believes van Doren is on her side (which he is clearly not and he even gave a cyphered warning to Kat, but one she overheard or disregarded).

I am replaying from the beginning to fresh up some knowledge and to see the changes done and there are some. But more important is seeing some scenes anew. What I recognised is that the possible way towards Abel and Sophia was started early on. When they first meet face to face and our MC is fanboying quite a bit, van Doren is not only flattered, but "just throws" in a comment, if Edwin would not like to go into medical research later on.

I keep seeing this repeated idea that the club could be run by Ian, Hana and Edwin. Ian couldn't run shit without bankrupting it from abusing his own product. Hana has a year as a reluctant bartender and one week of maybe kinda sorta giving two shits about how the place operates. As you said, Edwin hopes to be heading to Med School.

Which of these three "I'd rather be anywhere else" 20 somethings are suddenly going to know how to manage a business and keep the current clientele in check while doing so?

 

[MoBy28]

Chuck knows what the MC's past is like because of Ian and his own personal interaction with him. If TD had omitted the rage, impulse control issues and violence, then putting the MC in an environment with the likes of Kathleen, Warren and August would be low risk. Your typical nerd wall flower that can be guided and groomed. If anything with regards to Chuck/Victoria comes out later, he's in a pretty good situation to smooth that over and, as you said, make amends. That isn't the case though.

What young teenager doesn't have impulse control issues? They are young and still learning. Rage and violence tend to be the same when dealing with a young teenager, they get mad they tend to use violence as an outlet to release the rage. Most people grow out of that as they become an adult. What rage and violence issues has Edwin shown as an adult? I won't get into impulse control issues since most young men are going to bang any and all hot chicks they can until they finally grow up so he still has that issue.

Chuck took Edwin, as written, and put him in a den of predators and handed him on a platter to Kathleen. It's difficult to believe he doesn't understand what that could lead to. He set up a smart, educated and potentially vengeful person in a place that can much more easily unravel his previous facade of caring mentor.

Your forgetting Chuck stated this would let Edwin experience different sides of himself by working there. Chuck himself is sadistic but in a more cerebral way than Kat who focuses more on humiliation and physical pain. By letting him become Kat's "apprentice" if she brings out the darker side of Edwin then Chuck could also possibly become his mentor teaching him more cerebral ways to be sadistic, bringing them closer in the end. I never said Chuck was a caring mentor, but even still he can still be a caring mentor while teaching him how to be more mentally sadistic. Chuck may see this as a test to see how Edwin reacts or which path he follows and either encourage or let him go on his own to follow that path.

Kathleen is most likely in the know about Edwin's past as well. Yet, she risks making him an enemy multiple times. Scratch Edwin's past and it makes sense that Kathleen wants to groom another pay date buddy. At worst, she gets one more person to torment. At best, she gets her new sidekick to validate her world view. All fine well and good as long as Edwin isn't a person that, not long ago, showed a willingness to get physical with no consideration of the consequences.

Kat's whole character is about pushing people's buttons and pushing them to their limits to break them. Why would she treat Edwin whom she just met any different until later when she gets to know him and gets her warning from Chuck. She states she sees his sadistic side and is trying to help him experience it(depending on path I think) with his birthday present. Again choices you make are what makes the difference overall. I don't think she is afraid of him being physical since she has Warren as an ally and he's a physical abuser, she has experience dealing with that type of person. In fact I'd think she would want to see him release that side when she is giving him "gifts". As was stated getting the Kat scene this update was only for those who are on her path and that seemed to be very few based on the posts I have seen so far, unless they went back and made new saves/choices.

As for the now versus future problem. It became a now issue and not a tomorrow issue the second Kathleen dialed Victoria's number that first time. That is, if Edwin actually gives two shits about his mother. So, VanD's plan to one day take down the club is fine if you don't care that Chuck, Kathleen, August, Warren, Jacob etc. will target Victoria with violence if they get a whiff that Edwin plans to help VanD do what he is doing.

So the phone call she made 3 weeks ago(give or take) is a now issue? What was the purpose of that call? Was it to show the MC we know all about you and your family and can get to you/them at any time? I mean bringing someone into the criminal enterprise requires you either have to trust that person a lot or have some leverage to keep them from spilling the beans. I saw that call as the leverage to keep him in line. It's obvious he gives more than 2 shits about his mother since his entire future was planned to take care of her and working at the club is a means to that end.

First off your assuming that everyone at the club resorts to violence. Violence seems to be a recurring theme for you. Chuck and Kat would more than likely just ruin his and his mother's lives. Warren isn't smart enough for anything but violence, Jacob is only working at the club for the money and a few of the house girls he considers friends or more, as long as they aren't hurt I don't think he'd care about the club going down. August while being the gangster of the group would definitely resort to violence, but he might be gone before the club falls or possibly use it as his means to completely walk away. If you paid attention Kat is also working with Van D but doesn't realize that she too is on the chopping block, she thinks she is using them to remove the other leadership. So in essence Edwin could say he was acting on Kat's behalf, setting her up by exposing the things she is hiding from the others. I don't recall what all Edwin is aware of about Kat's plan but it was shown that Chuck is spending alot of time in the camera room, so I'm thinking the secret basement lab will be coming into the light pretty soon.

 

[Ungawa]

Let me put it a different way then.
Let's start with Chuck as he's the most "in the know" where Edwin is concerned.

Chuck knows what the MC's past is like because of Ian and his own personal interaction with him. If TD had omitted the rage, impulse control issues and violence, then putting the MC in an environment with the likes of Kathleen, Warren and August would be low risk. Your typical nerd wall flower that can be guided and groomed. If anything with regards to Chuck/Victoria comes out later, he's in a pretty good situation to smooth that over and, as you said, make amends. That isn't the case though.

Chuck took Edwin, as written, and put him in a den of predators and handed him on a platter to Kathleen. It's difficult to believe he doesn't understand what that could lead to. He set up a smart, educated and potentially vengeful person in a place that can much more easily unravel his previous facade of caring mentor.

Kathleen is most likely in the know about Edwin's past as well. Yet, she risks making him an enemy multiple times. Scratch Edwin's past and it makes sense that Kathleen wants to groom another pay date buddy. At worst, she gets one more person to torment. At best, she gets her new sidekick to validate her world view. All fine well and good as long as Edwin isn't a person that, not long ago, showed a willingness to get physical with no consideration of the consequences.

As for the now versus future problem. It became a now issue and not a tomorrow issue the second Kathleen dialed Victoria's number that first time. That is, if Edwin actually gives two shits about his mother. So, VanD's plan to one day take down the club is fine if you don't care that Chuck, Kathleen, August, Warren, Jacob etc. will target Victoria with violence if they get a whiff that Edwin plans to help VanD do what he is doing.

This is greatly misinterpreting the story at multiple points...

You're right about Chuck, I haven't played the most recent one but the character is what I'm going to respond to:

Chuck thinks about what's best for Edwin. Making connections in the club, pushing those forward, growing from the experience. Some of that is going to be with August and Kathleen. Who Chuck has known for a long time. As it stands, he believes their connections will benefit the budding doctor to be in Edwin. Remember his personal philosophy: hedonism to your personal benefit which has influence with Ian and even Edwin to an extent.

Kathleen knows about Edwin's past. Even called his mother. And she resonates with the sadistic side of him. Remember her tale. The place is for him to express himself. In short, Kathleen and Chuck are tempering Edwin to fall into their image with their influence. And no, he wasn't gonna get physical unless YOU got physical and he needed to. That's what the Strongman route is about in that Edwin does have strength and power on his side but uses it to protect Mina in the club scene or have that as a plus in certain scenes. But that's not the only thing of the character by no means.

People are not looking at this club issue properly. You're most likely not going to destroy the club or burn it down. You're possibly deciding who is ultimately in control and what happens as a result. Folks, the Bunny Ranch in Vegas still exists even if Hugh Hefner was funding it and he's long gone. Go to Vegas and the owner might change and it changes the personnel and staff and the shape of the place. So the place would change based on the choices you've made from how Kathleen would run it as the Queen of the place versus August versus Chuck... Or Hana...

And even then, there's Edwin. A result based on the decisions you did to come to that end.

 

[satirious]

This is greatly misinterpreting the story at multiple points...

You're right about Chuck, I haven't played the most recent one but the character is what I'm going to respond to:

Chuck thinks about what's best for Edwin. Making connections in the club, pushing those forward, growing from the experience. Some of that is going to be with August and Kathleen. Who Chuck has known for a long time. As it stands, he believes their connections will benefit the budding doctor to be in Edwin. Remember his personal philosophy: hedonism to your personal benefit which has influence with Ian and even Edwin to an extent.

Kathleen knows about Edwin's past. Even called his mother. And she resonates with the sadistic side of him. Remember her tale. The place is for him to express himself. In short, Kathleen and Chuck are tempering Edwin to fall into their image with their influence. And no, he wasn't gonna get physical unless YOU got physical and he needed to. That's what the Strongman route is about in that Edwin does have strength and power on his side but uses it to protect Mina in the club scene or have that as a plus in certain scenes. But that's not the only thing of the character by no means.

People are not looking at this club issue properly. You're most likely not going to destroy the club or burn it down. You're possibly deciding who is ultimately in control and what happens as a result. Folks, the Bunny Ranch in Vegas still exists even if Hugh Hefner was funding it and he's long gone. Go to Vegas and the owner might change and it changes the personnel and staff and the shape of the place. So the place would change based on the choices you've made from how Kathleen would run it as the Queen of the place versus August versus Chuck... Or Hana...

And even then, there's Edwin. A result based on the decisions you did to come to that end.

All of which is fine if Edwin is the nerdy little wall flower that can be molded and groomed into their perfect little future monster like they want. Like Edwin is for the vast majority of TD's story. Never have contradicted any of that. And it's clear as day that's how it will proceed for the remaining time. That's why Victoria's reveal isn't that big of a deal outside cliffhanger bait.

It's his back story, that Chuck and Kathleen are obviously aware of, which makes it not real smart for them to even start him down that road. That is the part that keeps getting jumped over and ignored. It's Chekov's gun. TD's story is pretty fucking tight on plot lines. So, is Edwin's past just flavor text for no good reason? If it's not just filler, then Chuck and Kathleen took a volatile substance and decided to play catch with it.

 

[Ottoeight]

What does Chuck treating a house girl as furniture have to do with making amends to someone he thinks of as almost family? Does he consider the house girl family? People can still be assholes to others but make amends to those they consider friends/family.

MoBy28: "Uncle Chuck, you are making amends to Edwin, aren't you?"

Uncle Chuck: "Making amends?!?! I have nothing to amend, son. My only regret is that I started 'having fun' only after I retired."

 

[Ungawa]

All of which is fine if Edwin is the nerdy little wall flower that can be molded and groomed into their perfect little future monster like they want. Like Edwin is for the vast majority of TD's story. Never have contradicted any of that. And it's clear as day that's how it will proceed for the remaining time. That's why Victoria's reveal isn't that big of a deal outside cliffhanger bait.

It's his back story, that Chuck and Kathleen are obviously aware of, which makes it not real smart for them to even start him down that road. That is the part that keeps getting jumped over and ignored. It's Chekov's gun. TD's story is pretty fucking tight on plot lines. So, is Edwin's past just flavor text for no good reason? If it's not just filler, then Chuck and Kathleen took a volatile substance and decided to play catch with it.

Sure, they decided that they can control the chaos in the club. Let's take that for a reason as to why:

Chuck, through personal family ties, thinks that the boy can be molded in his own image. Been that way since the get-go. You know him as Uncle Chuck, it's a big thing that you knew him for the years past and he wants you growing as a hedonistic perv just like him. That's his idea. You see how it works for Ian.

For Kathleen, she's more leery but eventually comes around to you even with her misgivings. You decide if that's something you wanna see or not. And the Edwin of that image reflects on it. From the personal sadism that leads to boning her to trying to bring out that sadistic side and opening up to it. Personal relationships are formed, forged, and tempered based on the actions you take Edwin into.

That kind of gets us back into this:

As for the now versus future problem. It became a now issue and not a tomorrow issue the second Kathleen dialed Victoria's number that first time. That is, if Edwin actually gives two shits about his mother. So, VanD's plan to one day take down the club is fine if you don't care that Chuck, Kathleen, August, Warren, Jacob etc. will target Victoria with violence if they get a whiff that Edwin plans to help VanD do what he is doing.

Emphasis is mine. The point of my criticism, and the point I need to stress is that the game gives us multiple ways to solve a problem which make sense for the characters involved. Different avenues and results and none are going to be easy and all have consequences to their actions. That's more or less the point I'm saying here. All of these characters have more than one facet to them and while we think one way is going to make sense, there's still other ways it may be resolved. So it may be a bit early to think that one plan will succeed or fail when we don't have enough info to consider what other possibilities may await us.

 

[Ottoeight]

I'd have to disagree seeing as how any of the Carnations can willingly bow out of the competition at any time.

Anybody can do anything, BUT they have to face the consequences.

Now imagine the consequences on Felicia, Rosalind or Veronica if they bow out of the competion. And imagine the consequences on Edwin.

First of all, it won't happen because the story would end before the 4th exhibition night.

 

[Turret]

I keep seeing this repeated idea that the club could be run by Ian, Hana and Edwin. Ian couldn't run shit without bankrupting it from abusing his own product. Hana has a year as a reluctant bartender and one week of maybe kinda sorta giving two shits about how the place operates. As you said, Edwin hopes to be heading to Med School.

Which of these three "I'd rather be anywhere else" 20 somethings are suddenly going to know how to manage a business and keep the current clientele in check while doing so?

Pardon me, but you overlook a few points. A) It seems that the current leaders want to groom the three to be their successors in a couple years. So the Club will go on when they retire. That is one possible route, if you stick with the current bosses.
B) If you side with Abel and Sophia the leadership change will come A LOT sooner, but they have a whole medical Empire behind them. It certainly would be unproblematic for Abel and Sophia to bring some managers in who would stem most of the work until e.g. Hana is ready. Also Dalia is certainly not clueless how to run the Club and can help. Last but not least we know that August´s credo is always making the smart choice. He is the only one of the current leadership who could survive a hostile takeover of the Club in kind of influential position, at least temporarily until Hana is ready.

 

[satirious]

Sure, they decided that they can control the chaos in the club. Let's take that for a reason as to why:

Chuck, through personal family ties, thinks that the boy can be molded in his own image. Been that way since the get-go. You know him as Uncle Chuck, it's a big thing that you knew him for the years past and he wants you growing as a hedonistic perv just like him. That's his idea. You see how it works for Ian.

For Kathleen, she's more leery but eventually comes around to you even with her misgivings. You decide if that's something you wanna see or not. And the Edwin of that image reflects on it. From the personal sadism that leads to boning her to trying to bring out that sadistic side and opening up to it. Personal relationships are formed, forged, and tempered based on the actions you take Edwin into.

That kind of gets us back into this:



Emphasis is mine. The point of my criticism, and the point I need to stress is that the game gives us multiple ways to solve a problem which make sense for the characters involved. Different avenues and results and none are going to be easy and all have consequences to their actions. That's more or less the point I'm saying here. All of these characters have more than one facet to them and while we think one way is going to make sense, there's still other ways it may be resolved. So it may be a bit early to think that one plan will succeed or fail when we don't have enough info to consider what other possibilities may await us.

All true enough and Edwin isn't pursuing any of them when Kathleen has made it clear she's willing to target his mother (the one he supposedly cares about) if he isn't a good little boy. His most extreme reaction thus far is "fuck you". Then he tucks tail and waddles away. Just as he'll do with whatever information he learns about Victoria/Chuck.

In even the most generous to Chuck scenario possible, Edwin should have a major axe to grind if Victoria means anything to him and his personal history is as written.

Chuck knows Kath and her methods. He certainly has to at least entertain that idea she will use Vic as leverage. He has to be smart enough to at least consider that it could result in Victoria making noise to Edwin and/or Ian. The same Victoria he has some negative history with, is the object of his dear nephews affections and the mother of that same nephews best friend and protector.

That's a convenient win for all that to be on the table with Edwin's known history and there be zero loss on their part. So is Chuck careless and stupid or too arrogant and heartless to care if it blows up in his face?

 

[fred9320]

Latest Pale Carnations update [Ch4.Up5] is out now! Happy Fucking New Year ladies and gents!

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my dreams

 

[satirious]

Pardon me, but you overlook a few points. A) It seems that the current leaders want to groom the three to be their successors in a couple years. So the Club will go on when they retire. That is one possible route, if you stick with the current bosses.
B) If you side with Abel and Sophia the leadership change will come A LOT sooner, but they have a whole medical Empire behind them. It certainly would be unproblematic for Abel and Sophia to bring some managers in who would stem most of the work until e.g. Hana is ready. Also Dalia is certainly not clueless how to run the Club and can help. Last but not least we know that August´s credo is always making the smart choice. He is the only one of the current leadership who could survive a hostile takeover of the Club in kind of influential position, at least temporarily until Hana is ready.

The grooming them to be leaders part isn't actually part of the story.

August forced Hana in to the club to build bridges with his daughter. He's just now got her to even consider taking over for him in the future. Two weeks at best, while she still spends much of her time doing other shit (like her band and possible fucking Edwin) is a very short training period. So that is at least one of them.

Ian isn't being groomed as a future boss. Chuck is letting him run wild and sow his oats. Ian's on any path still more interested in playing Prince than learning how to rule.

Edwin is supposed to head off to Med school



Sure Dalia knows how to work the girls. That's great if the club turns into just a whore house and you get rid of all of the "extras" the p[lace offers.

 

[Ungawa]

All true enough and Edwin isn't pursuing any of them when Kathleen has made it clear she's willing to target his mother (the one he supposedly cares about) if he isn't a good little boy. His most extreme reaction thus far is "fuck you". Then he tucks tail and waddles away. Just as he'll do with whatever information he learns about Victoria/Chuck.

He's in no position to question Kathleen, especially as he finds out more about Darius and how he disappeared. The point of a noir setting is that there is danger in a misstep and others have done it so you go into a dangerous setting with your wits about you.

In even the most generous to Chuck scenario possible, Edwin should have a major axe to grind if Victoria means anything to him and his personal history is as written.

Okay, and you can go to punch him in the face but that's not what you're doing here. You gotta play the cards you're dealt and sometimes you gotta fold when you get a bad hand.

Chuck knows Kath and her methods. He certainly has to at least entertain that idea she will use Vic as leverage. He has to be smart enough to at least consider that it could result in Victoria making noise to Edwin and/or Ian. The same Victoria he has some negative history with, is the object of his dear nephews affections and the mother of that same nephews best friend and protector.

And vice versa. Kath knows Chuck and what he's capable of in a sordid cathouse. No matter how you slice it, everyone's in the darkness here.

That's a convenient win for all that to be on the table with Edwin's known history and there be zero loss on their part. So is Chuck careless and stupid or too arrogant and heartless to care if it blows up in his face?

If anything, you can see that Chuck is far from careless or stupid. He has the things he does well as well as strengths and weaknesses of character. Ruthless, cunning, and deep down a monster.

The character has a lot going on and perhaps there's a blind spot or two. But I don't think that diminishes what they can do should missteps be taken in the future.