VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

It's actually impressive how you can use "went to a lesbian bar" as an argument, and then completely ignore what follows. You know, the whole forming what is arguably the most intimate personal connection among the potential love interests, based on a set of surprisingly similar life experiences and personal perspectives, followed by mutually explicitly attraction driven sexual Olympics, topped of with some post coital pillow talk.

What follows in your example has no bearing on initial context, which was Veronica only being able to interact with men in the club. I was pointing out this was largely due to her own decisions.

As for what can also follow, is Veronica ditching Edwin for a hookup with a random girl which you wingman for her. Something you in turn seem very eager to completely ignore. So much for all the soulful bonding, forming deep connections etc. Random female booty has a higher priority if only an opportunity presents itself.

No one explicitly tells us Veronica isn't vacuuming dicks at the local bar. By your standards, it's a valid argument.

No, by my actual standards it's a nonsense on basic logical level, given what we were explicitly told. If Veronica told you that she's been hooking up with women, as opposed to hooking up with women and men, then that's what's happening in the story, and it contradicts any head canon to the contrary one might want to invent.

 

[UmbralKnight]

I think this because this is what Veronica has repeatedly demonstrated throughout the game, as opposed to acting like a person with equal preference towards both sexes, which is what people normally picture when they say someone is bi. It seems to me that people are overblowing this notion that "she is bi" when in reality

now you are holding her up to unreasonable standards.
so by this logic why isn't this same criteria applied to other girls like hana ,felicia or mina ?
all of them has shown atleast some interest in other women or has had flings with women in the past.
yet you don't seem to mind their bisexuality.

if you assigned a scale to the level of interest in physical features of guys and girls, one would be around 1 and the other around 5. The fact it's supposedly just feminine guys that can get her interested, and even then it's a rare occurrence, it's telling.

so what if someone is straight then are they going to find ALL straight people suddenly sexually attractive just because they too happen to be straight ?
obviously everything comes down to individual preferences , that's why even if you are a straight male your sexual preferences are going to differ as you age up.
you might have loved milfs when you were a teenager but as you get older your tastes in women will definitely vary now you might find tall women appealing or maybe now you like even older cougars.
nothing is permanent in life.

if your interest in a partner is ever, at best, lukewarm, because most of their features just don't turn you on, then the prospects of a long-term relationship that doesn't end when a person shows up who ticks all your boxes as opposed to just a couple of them, is minimal.

life isn't bunch of check boxes , even if that was the case why did lily and veronica breakup then ?
surely she is supposed to be far MORE compatible right ?

the metrics i'm using for the long-term romantic relationship are both familiarity/trust and strong sexual attraction. And the latter is something i simply don't believe can be part of Veronica/Edwin pairing, due to aforementioned factors and Veronica's "general preferences" being what they are. Hence i agree with the claim that started this whole tangent, that the chances for this pairing to lead to some sort of "happily ever after" ending are very, very low if not non-existent.

and what you think the other girls are going to get a happily ever after ending with the MC just because they are not BI ?
do you really think rose is going to let the MC become step "daddy" of her child or do you really think that felicia is going to divorce her husband and settle down with the MC ?
all of these scenarios are equally absurd yet you think ONLY veronica and the MC can't be in a longterm happy relationship ever.

would i be happy if the devs created a happily ever after ending ending for the two
obviously yes but i don't mind if things don't work out between the 2 in the long run either
because such is life but claiming that they don't have any kind of mutual attraction is just plain wild denial.

 

[labmouseblues]

What follows in your example has no bearing on initial context

The context is the discussion about the possibility of two characters entering a lasting relationship, and whether the events of the game support that possibility.

You remember where we started from, right?

As for what can also follow, is Veronica ditching Edwin for a hookup with a random girl which you wingman for her.

What can also happen is that you never connect with any of the possible love interests, because you choose to not enrage with the offered opportunities. It's a game, it's supposed to have options, for fuck's sake.

No, by my actual standards it's a nonsense on basic logical level

You do realize I'm not seriously arguing Veronica sucks dicks as a pastime, right?

 

[ffive]

now you are holding her up to unreasonable standards.
so by this logic why isn't this same criteria applied to other girls like hana ,felicia or mina ?
all of them has shown atleast some interest in other women or has had flings with women in the past.
yet you don't seem to mind their bisexuality.

Mina's "bi-curiosity" is something you quite literally develop as a player, she starts with none and can remain so.
Hana explicitly talks how she only had a single lesbian experience and how she doesn't have much interest in it. She'll repeat it to Mina during their garage talk.

So for both of them, the situations is kind of opposite to Veronica -- the game has clearly established their heterosexual attraction, while their lesbian interest is either budding or limited. Same goes for Felicia, whose attraction to men doesn't seem to be on low end of the spectrum.

It's not "standards" that i'm holding anyone to here. I'm simply taking note of the characters' apparent preferences and what it might mean for the MC who may or may not meet those preferences.

obviously everything comes down to individual preferences , that's why even if you are a straight male your sexual preferences are going to differ as you age up.

Right, and then people go and do their hardest to ignore what these preferences are for Veronica.

Even if they were to change with age, we're talking about here and now, and how that might impact the odds of forming a long-term relationship. If you're going to bet on "maybe her preferences will change in some decade or two and suddenly she starts to find Edwin irresistibly appealing, much more than any women she meets everyday"... well, sure, that is a bet you can make.

life isn't bunch of check boxes , even if that was the case why did lily and veronica breakup then ?
surely she is supposed to be far MORE compatible right ?

Being more compatible doesn't automatically guarantee being compatible enough for relationship to last. To reverse your question -- if Veronica and her wife broke up, what makes you hope that her relationship with someone much less compatible is going to fare any better?

and what you think the other girls are going to get a happily ever after ending with the MC just because they are not BI ?

No, i don't. In fact, i'll be quite surprised if there's such ending for any of them, because there's plenty aspects these pairings have going against things working out for them. But that's entirely different argument.

 

[Beduin123]

How about Sophie?

She is my favorite one after the two youngsters and Felicia IMO she has the most beautiful legs after Mina.
Basically, these four are the top tier for me.
Looking forward to Edwin melting her ice-cold heart and having a lot of great sex with her

PS So, me discussing Felicia's plan was bad, but endlessly going on and on about Veronica's sexual preferences is OK, I guess

 

[UmbralKnight]

evidently, she can open up pretty fast.

maybe with the MC we don't see her opening up to anyone else about her current situation even her own mentor ,her ex or the woman who officiated her wedding (karli) they all know nothing about her current situation.

is Veronica ditching Edwin for a hookup with a random girl which you wingman for her.

that's an obvious player choice that exists purely for narrative purposes.
i have no interest in rose and that is why i don't get upset if rose decides to have threesome with ian and the MC.
rose having threesome is an obvious player choice that could be entirely avoided like i did.
this is like picking the GAY option in a video game and complaining that your in-game character is now gay for some reason.

Even her outing with Edwin is at a lesbian bar, when it could've been a regular bar.

she chose that bar because she used to be regular there and she is familiar with the place and it's owner.

is Veronica ditching Edwin for a hookup with a random girl which you wingman for her. Something you in turn seem very eager to completely ignore. So much for all the soulful bonding, forming deep connections etc.

again this is entirely upto the choices and agency of the player.
you can be a dickhead to veronica throughout the game and not hug her after the aftermath of week 2 , this prevents you from being her friend entirely does that mean everyone else should also choose not being her friend?
in my play through i never made the MC betray ian by sleeping with mina even though you CAN do it if you want to.
this is what player agency looks like different people make different choices that make the same characters appear differently.

 

[ffive]

The context is the discussion about the possibility of two characters entering a lasting relationship, and whether the events of the game support that possibility.

You remember where we started from, right?

I remember where it started and also where it went from there. Which was someone deciding to argue that Veronica's apparent lack of interest in men was due to her having no options where such interest could manifest. I was responding to that particular argument.

Veronica's displayed low interest in men even when she actually had choice in that matter was the key point of how unlikely would be for such relationship to last. The argument that followed "but look, they have soooo bonded while drunk out of their asses and even had a pillow talk afterwards (so it's totally going to work out for them now)"... let's just say i remain skeptical about its real value.

You do realize I'm not seriously arguing Veronica sucks dicks as a pastime, right?

Yes. And now with both of us acknowledging it was an absurd premise brought up in lack of better argument we can put it to rest. A happy ending for all.

 

[ename144]

I think this because this is what Veronica has repeatedly demonstrated throughout the game, as opposed to acting like a person with equal preference towards both sexes, which is what people normally picture when they say someone is bi. It seems to me that people are overblowing this notion that "she is bi" when in reality, if you assigned a scale to the level of interest in physical features of guys and girls, one would be around 1 and the other around 5. The fact it's supposedly just feminine guys that can get her interested, and even then it's a rare occurrence, it's telling.

The thing is, if your interest in a partner is ever, at best, lukewarm, because most of their features just don't turn you on, then the prospects of a long-term relationship that doesn't end when a person shows up who ticks all your boxes as opposed to just a couple of them, is minimal.


Sure. But if then given a choice between Mina and otherwise identical redhead-Mina, do you think she'd prefer the former, or the latter? Which would she find more appealing?

Interest isn't something that has identical strength for all possible subjects. It's proportional to how well the subject meets all our preferences.

Again, I think you're ignoring all the indications that Veronica does enjoy having sex with guys in their own right. As the MC notes, she's learned to flex her pelvic floor muscles purely for the fun of her male paramours.

To me that doesn't sound like someone who only tolerates men if they're sufficiently feminine, it sounds like someone who appreciates the difference between the two sexes.

We don't actually know what Veronica is sharing with Mina (and what Mina is sharing with Veronica) during their gym sessions Mina frequently attends, that MC is never really a witness of. For all we know, Veronica by now could've shared with Mina more than she did with Edwin, and Edwin is simply unaware of this.

After all, it's not like Edwin has spent excessively long time with Veronica, either. So evidently, she can open up pretty fast.

Actually, we do know:

Granted, that was a week ago, but given how much further her relationship with the MC has progressed since then I'm comfortable asserting that Mina hasn't somehow surpassed him off-screen.

Also, to be precise, the metrics i'm using for the long-term romantic relationship are both familiarity/trust and strong sexual attraction. And the latter is something i simply don't believe can be part of Veronica/Edwin pairing, due to aforementioned factors and Veronica's "general preferences" being what they are. Hence i agree with the claim that started this whole tangent, that the chances for this pairing to lead to some sort of "happily ever after" ending are very, very low if not non-existent.

Given how happy Veronica seems to be in her sex scenes with the MC, I think you must have a ludicrously high standard for sexual attraction.

 

[labmouseblues]

The argument that followed "but look, they have soooo bonded while drunk out of their asses and even had a pillow talk afterwards (so it's totally going to work out for them now)"

Yeah, if you're willing to misrepresent the events to such an extent, I don't think you're worth any more of my time.

 

[ffive]

Given how happy Veronica seems to be in her sex scenes with the MC, I think you must have a ludicrously high standard for sexual attraction.

A girl can be extremely happy with a dildo too, but it doesn't really indicate much of sexual attraction to it on her part. I wouldn't really draw a firm link between these two things.

 

[ffive]

Yeah, if you're willing to misrepresent the events to such an extent, I don't think you're worth any more of my time.

I'm sorry, that's how it basically read to me. Now i'll freely admit that this summary was pretty flippant, but this is mainly because the tone of your replies seemed rather sarcastic and i was responding in kind.

In any case i'm also fine with just putting it to rest, i suspect the mods might be itching to take it behind a shed, given for how long it's gone.

 

[UmbralKnight]

So for both of them, the situations is kind of opposite to Veronica -- the game has clearly established their heterosexual attraction, while their lesbian interest is either budding or limited. Same goes for Felicia, whose attraction to men doesn't seem to be on low end of the spectrum.

now we are just wasting time on semantics, by definition if someone is sexually active with male and female sexual partners that makes them bi.

Even if they were to change with age, we're talking about here and now, and how that might impact the odds of forming a long-term relationship. If you're going to bet on "maybe her preferences will change in some decade or two and suddenly she starts to find Edwin irresistibly appealing, much more than any women she meets everyday"... well, sure, that is a bet you can make.

you do know that in the HERE and NOW Veronica is now closer to the MC than anyone else right ?
few ingame days ago she was keen on being "just friends" with the MC for just "2 more weeks" now she doesn't bring that reminder again because CLEARLY she likes the here and now that she spends with the MC.

To reverse your question -- if Veronica and her wife broke up, what makes you hope that her relationship with someone much less compatible is going to fare any better?

well if you are asking for my opinion, i would say it has something to do with kids/pregnancy.
we can already see some hints about it early in the game.
one of them couldn't have kids/ didn't want to be pregnant so must have caused lots of friction in their marriage.

View attachment 4522981

i'll be quite surprised if there's such ending for any of them, because there's plenty aspects these pairings have going against things working out for them. But that's entirely different argument.

then why are you so against veronica pairing alone ?

 

[ffive]

then why are you so against veronica pairing alone ?

I'm not against it alone. This whole thing started when someone said that Edwin/Veronica probably won't get ending better than FWB, and someone else took offense at it.

I was basically agreeing with the first person and describing my reasons for it. Since it was about Veronica from the start i didn't think there's any point to dragging others into it and making it even more difficult to follow than it apparently already is.

 

[johnnyras]

did they say when update 6 will be out? update 5 is a such a teaser lol

 

[femyo]

For gallery unlock, this is how I did it (after failing with universal gallery unlocker)
1, go to Pale Carnations folder > renpy > common
2, find and open 00console with notepad
3, find the line "config.console = False" and change it to "config.console = True"
4, open the walkthrough provided by this forum, and at the bottom of the pdf there is a section for unlock scenes
5, find your missing scene, and copy the fourth column's content (eg.: "persistent.RoseTAGallery = True")
6, run game and press Shift+O
7, paste the copied variable, press enter
8, ????
9, profit

or if you want everything unlocked, just paste this into console

Spoiler: Lots of text

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[mruggeri2]

I seem to have missed some scenes but I have no idea how. Like the one next to Victoria, it says "Meeting Donovan: How hard can it be to charm an air head?". How do I get this scene?

 

[ffive]

I seem to have missed some scenes but I have no idea how. Like the one next to Victoria, it says "Meeting Donovan: How hard can it be to charm an air head?". How do I get this scene?

Guess the answer to the hint question is "Apparently, hard enough."

Be nice/flirty with the girl who brings Edwin to Donovan. Double down on flirting if she doesn't get the hint.

 

[dolfe67]

did they say when update 6 will be out? update 5 is a such a teaser lol

They won't say it before it's almost ready but don't expect it before 6 months

 

[pinuz1]

Am I the only one here that doesn't care about Veronica at all?

No, don't worry, you are in a f95zone thread, of course you are not the only one without taste in here

 

[Ozymandias037]

PS So, me discussing Felicia's plan was bad, but endlessly going on and on about Veronica's sexual preferences is OK, I guess

For me personally, I disagreed strongly enough with some of your takes on Felicia's character that I wanted to discuss/argue about them. Plus, that was about her character, her personality and goals, more or less. This is.... not. In my opinion. And I think there's a lot of talking past one another and misunderstanding of arguments, and I certainly have my own thoughts on the argument.... but I don't care enough to get involved

I would say, though, that the discussion about Felicia was allowed to run as long as it did because people cared enough to keep responding, and because it's at least somewhat on topic. I think this one is the same.