VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Sleepingbeast97]

Ok im now at the end of the current built and I have a few opinions. Firstly i want to commend the writer for creating believable characters. No one feels particularly out of place and everyone has reasons for their actions even if its just as simple as "i enjoy doing it." I genuinely love hana's and mina's characters and all of the carnations are unique and special in their own way. The animations are great the story is solid. A few times I genuinely had tears in my eyes like when hana explained her mom's condition because I went through similar shit. The character models are beautiful my only complaint is that there is no woman with less than double D cups. Now I'm gonna be honest I'm not particularly comfortable with a lot of the subject matter especially the exploitation of the money problems of the girls. Some of the exhibition scenes are really rough and knowing 2/3 girls would rather not deal with Kathleen's bullshit irks me really badly. But what I do appreciate is that the main character always acknowledges how fucked up everything relating to the club is. I genuinely feel bad for Rosalind and Veronica when they are put through the wringer. Felicia seems to enjoy most of it so can deal with those scenes and even enjoy most of it. It's a really weird contrast when you see some of the scenes that are genuinely romantic and loving in their own way.

Lastly I would like to adress the game designers directly. If you dare not to give me an ending were I can help all of the carnations im going to find you and force you to write me a good ending personally. I'm too invested in their story now for only one to get a good ending. I want Rosalind to live happy with her daughter I want Veronica's gym to thrive and I want for felicia to finally kick her husband to the curb. Please make it so that hana has enough influence to change the rules so everyone gets what they want or something to that extent. I'm never going to emotionally recover if I have to read their bad endings.

 

[destrago01]

NTR? im NTR fan :C

 

[Turret]

Wait, there's a character in this game that's less than quadruple D?

Well, someone in the thread made the work to compare all the "funbags" in the game. With the result that Vicki has the largest bossom of them all and Sophia the smallest. If you can speak about small breasts in this game, since even Sophia´s are rather big. The breast sizes are one of the few flaws of Pale Carnations, in my opinion, too many very large ones. But that is always personal tastes at work.

Sophia is a waste of space and takes away time from other main girls. It’s just a general AVN pet peeve of mine when main + side girls start creeping to 8 plus. And it always gets a reaction from someone when I dunk on her. Sophia will forever be my punching stick of flatness.

Actually, Sophia, her story and why she is at PC is far more interesting than a lot of the other backstories we have/had, even some of the main characters. It should tell you something when a side character gets defended this much and well.

 

[Ungawa]

NTR? im NTR fan :C

Not that kinda game. Debauchery, mafia, and corruption, but the NTR is in another cathouse.

 

[Ungawa]

The breast sizes are one of the few flaws of Pale Carnations, in my opinion, too many very large ones. But that is always personal tastes at work.

--too many very large ones

Spoiler: ... These words... They don't make sense to me...

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Although, I do agree that Sophia has an interesting background, that particular mystery has to be resolved at some time instead of being a point of interest for Chuck as it stands. And the problem with a mystery is when it's revealed and far less interesting.

 

[Turret]

Although, I do agree that Sophia has an interesting background, that particular mystery has to be resolved at some time instead of being a point of interest for Chuck as it stands. And the problem with a mystery is when it's revealed and far less interesting.

It is not only her background, but her personality too. We do not have another woman like her in the game, an amoral, eccentric, nerdy genius. Only Felicia comes somewhat close.

 

[Beduin123]

I do agree that Sophia has an interesting background, that particular mystery has to be resolved at some time instead of being a point of interest for Chuck as it stands. And the problem with a mystery is when it's revealed and far less interesting.

That's really a mystery because she is a talented (or even genius, as the game implies) scientist despite of her relatively young age, but an Abel's plaything (a whore) at the same time. It's hard to imagine these two personalities combined in one person.
This is another similarity with Felicia who also has two or even three different personalities (a talented artist, a trophy wife, a nymphomaniac). Still, Sofia and Felicia are so much different

 

[Ungawa]

It is not only her background, but her personality too. We do not have another woman like her in the game, an amoral, eccentric, nerdy genius. Only Felicia comes somewhat close.

That's really a mystery because she is a talented (or even genius, as the game implies) scientist despite of her relatively young age, but an Abel's plaything (a whore) at the same time. It's hard to imagine these two personalities combined in one person.
This is another similarity with Felicia who also has two or even three different personalities (a talented artist, a trophy wife, a nymphomaniac). Still, Sofia and Felicia are so much different

That's sort of the game in sharp focus: duality. For each person, there's things they do differently and give you something to see different from both each other as well as in themselves. Amazing mirrors into how people can be so different and yet have similarities thar reflect in many different ways.

 

[Beduin123]

That's sort of the game in sharp focus: duality. For each person, there's things they do differently and give you something to see different from both each other as well as in themselves. Amazing mirrors into how people can be so different and yet have similarities thar reflect in many different ways.

I would argue that most of the other LIs in this game are not that controversial/complicated. Veronica and Rose are much more simple. Of course they have their skeletons in the closet, but still they are kind of people you can meet in everyday life. Hana and Mina are young girls who also have some specific traits, like the Mina's sexual desires list or Hana's daddy issues, but again, nothing very unusual.

 

[ffive]

That's really a mystery because she is a talented (or even genius, as the game implies) scientist despite of her relatively young age, but an Abel's plaything (a whore) at the same time. It's hard to imagine these two personalities combined in one person.

Quite a few women have to put up with old sexist men who don't really see them as equal and demand more than just intellectual contributions from them, in order to acknowledge their worth. Some of them go along with those demands.

Hardly a mystery or a contradiction. Just a difference in how men will see it based on whether you have a penis or not; and what it means in terms of demands.

(Sophia could also, gods forbid, enjoy sex even if she's highly intelligent. An outrageous concept, i know.

 

[Turret]

That's sort of the game in sharp focus: duality. For each person, there's things they do differently and give you something to see different from both each other as well as in themselves. Amazing mirrors into how people can be so different and yet have similarities thar reflect in many different ways.

Quite right!

That's really a mystery because she is a talented (or even genius, as the game implies) scientist despite of her relatively young age, but an Abel's plaything (a whore) at the same time. It's hard to imagine these two personalities combined in one person.

If you replay the game from the start, you will/can see that Sophia is less a plaything for Abel than it seems. I theorise it is played up by Abel and Sophia to not look too much out of place. And going by the reactions it works also with a some players.

The only time Abel orders Sophia ingame to do something is when he tells her to give Edwin a shoulder massage in the Club´s small bar. Abel speaks about her with clear fondness e.g. "My Sophia" in tone and body posture. We also see a picture of the two out hunting. And what seems to be forgotten by several players: Sophia is normally alone in the "testing cellar room", only Abel sometimes comes in too. Not even Kat knows exactly what is done in there.
She is his protege, Abel has recognised her genius and will help her going far. She is his chosen successor at a major firm. She is naturally helping him achieve his goals as well.

 

[ffive]

And that’s my beef with too many side chicks. They become fan favorites so more writing goes towards them and main character story lines end up less developed than their potential. Happens every time with more expansive casts being trickled into any story.

Short of not having any other characters in the game at all the random simping is very much unavoidable. I mean, in the Being a DIK thread people have been thirsting for months after a girl who appears in two scenes as one of background actors, without any lines or anything, but she happens to look hot enough.

 

[Turret]

Short of not having any other characters in the game at all the random simping is very much unavoidable. I mean, in the Being a DIK thread people have been thirsting for months after a girl who appears in two scenes as one of background actors, without any lines or anything, but she happens to look hot enough.

Well, that is something I cannot see doing myself, that is strange going for such a character just because he/she is hot. As said, Sophia Lundgren has an interesting personality, backstory and why she is at the club and hopefully we can get a love story with her on some paths.

 

[Argentleaf]

I have such a love hate relationship with this game, even though it has great story and cgi's its updated once a year, but then I have moved to a new computer and lost all my data and there is no reliable way to continue where I left off, and trying to find saves that work in this thread is an absolute pain.

 

[ename144]

so what’s avg time between updates?

The average wait is currently 156 days with a median of 140 days. Updates have generally been taking longer as the game advances (unsurprisingly), but it also varies by the amount of ground a given update needs to cover. The weekly Exhibitions are normally jam packed with stuff, so the odds are this update will be a big one (unless it gets split in two, which is feasible, but currently seen as unlikely). I'd expect at least 8 months total development time to finish off Chapter 4, but that's obviously just a guess.

Spoiler: Development Time Thus Far

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[The Senior Perv]

Dev Diary 89

Heya folks, TD here. Currently, Ch4Up6 sits at a total of 243 static images, 18 animations, and 6,880 words. That comes out to 207 images, 6 animations, and 6,178 words since our last diary three weeks ago.

It’s been a little stop and go this week as I’ve gummed up production by wrestling with two important scenes and giving them the impact they require, but overall things have been progressing pretty nicely. Although important, the **pre-pre** exhibition scenes (meaning everything before Edwin arrives at the club for the **pre**-exhibition free roam) shouldn’t eat up too much dev time. So far we’ve completed the two discreet openings that follow the cliffhanger from the last update and Kathleen checking in, plus a surprise house call from a certain beloved character and a nice exchange for Veronica enjoyers. Next up are the remaining two (Victoria focused) scenes that I’m sure people are dying for with how that got left off.

Fret not, things aren’t going to be left hanging and unresolved there. There’s something about writing Vicky, Ian, and Edwin together that makes me happy… so I’ve been super excited to continue that thread.

After that, is the meat and potatoes: the pre-exhibition running about, and the big show itself. That will be quite the undertaking, with unique challenges, but that is the fun thing about this job. I’ll speak on that side of things in a later diary.

I’ll keep this short, so that’s that. As always, thank you for your support. It means the world to us.

 

[ffive]

If people are lusting over a side character imo that’s just misguided writing.

IMO that's just horny people being horny people and wanting to pork anything they see that appears remotely appealing.

Like i said, the only way you can avoid it is not to have other female characters, something you kind of acknowledge yourself with wanting to replace Sophia with a guy.

Take Sophia as an example. She is imo taking more away from main characters story lines then enhancing. If she wasn’t a hot blonde female, she would be just be the loyal assistant with brains. Replace her with a male model, would dicks really be this hard for the Sophia character?

Since she is a hot villainess, she is taking steam from the sails of Kathleen’s role as main female antagonist.

The skinny hot blonde is now also taking steam from Mina’s role as the hot skinny blonde.

The awkward face personality yet has some brains. Again that’s taking steam out of Felicia’s sails.

That’s oomph you’re taking out of 3 Main characters story lines that could hit just a little bit harder without the hot blonde assistant.

This may come as a shock, but i can enjoy more than one character with shared traits.

I don't see it as taking steam out of anyone's sails, but more than one character i get to enjoy, if i happen to be into their shared traits.

Again Victoria, a little more tricky since she is so intertwined into protagonists story. Still, I consider a side character. Has a much better hitting mother offspring storyline than Rose will ever have. Victoria takes hella steam away from Rose who is a main chracter.

Now you're getting into what i'd call nonsense and perhaps even failing to understand the story.

Victoria doesn't take away any steam from Rose. Quite the opposite, her presence (and her backstory) is large part of how Rose comes across in the story. If anything, Victoria strengthens Rose's presence and role, through their shared analogies. Do you think Edwin doing porn with Rose on stage and roleplaying into mommy fetish there would hit anywhere as hard, if Victoria and her porn flicks weren't part the game?

 

[ename144]

View attachment 4534165

Dev Diary 89

Heya folks, TD here. Currently, Ch4Up6 sits at a total of 243 static images, 18 animations, and 6,880 words. That comes out to 207 images, 6 animations, and 6,178 words since our last diary three weeks ago.

It’s been a little stop and go this week as I’ve gummed up production by wrestling with two important scenes and giving them the impact they require, but overall things have been progressing pretty nicely. Although important, the **pre-pre** exhibition scenes (meaning everything before Edwin arrives at the club for the **pre**-exhibition free roam) shouldn’t eat up too much dev time. So far we’ve completed the two discreet openings that follow the cliffhanger from the last update and Kathleen checking in, plus a surprise house call from a certain beloved character and a nice exchange for Veronica enjoyers. Next up are the remaining two (Victoria focused) scenes that I’m sure people are dying for with how that got left off.

Fret not, things aren’t going to be left hanging and unresolved there. There’s something about writing Vicky, Ian, and Edwin together that makes me happy… so I’ve been super excited to continue that thread.

After that, is the meat and potatoes: the pre-exhibition running about, and the big show itself. That will be quite the undertaking, with unique challenges, but that is the fun thing about this job. I’ll speak on that side of things in a later diary.

I’ll keep this short, so that’s that. As always, thank you for your support. It means the world to us.

There are definitely some interesting developments here, but first let's crunch the numbers. TD and GIL have averaged roughly 69 static images, 2 animations, and 2059 words per week in the three weeks since the last dev diary. Overall, they are now averaging 63 statics, 4.7 animations and 1784 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 6 began. Here are the Charts for Week 4:

Spoiler: Pre-Pre-Charts

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We seem to be off to a good start, though other than an interesting surge in animations right out of the gate we're still too early in the cycle to draw meaningful conclusions. I'm more intrigued by the flight plan for the update. Obviously good news for Veronica enjoyers is always welcome, but I'm guessing it's the mysterious visit that's be responsible for the animations. I'm not as enthusiastic about that, but it might still give us some insights into a relatively significant character so it's still likely to be worthwhile. Obviously the *real* meat of the pre-pre-update material will be the discussion with Victoria and Ian. I'm super curious to see how that will unfold, and as much as I appreciate the need to conserve dev time for the main course, this is one area I'm happy to spend lavishly on. So don't hurry on my account, TD!

Of course, it will be some time before we'll see the outcome of all this effort, but such is life. We'll doubtless find other interesting tidbits to obsess over between now and then!

 

[Ottoeight]

Dev Diary 89

[...]

Next up are the remaining two (Victoria focused) scenes that I’m sure people are dying for with how that got left off.

Fret not, things aren’t going to be left hanging and unresolved there. There’s something about writing Vicky, Ian, and Edwin together that makes me happy… so I’ve been super excited to continue that thread.

Man, I'm already sweating now...

 

[TD1900]

@TD1900 Do you have any other works you've written or is this your first one?

Like Dolfe said, this is my first time writing a story beyond some short lived comics made with HS.

If people are lusting over a side character imo that’s just misguided writing. Take Sophia as an example. She is imo taking more away from main characters story lines then enhancing. If she wasn’t a hot blonde female, she would be just be the loyal assistant with brains. Replace her with a male model, would dicks really be this hard for the Sophia character?

I'd agree Andrea didn't need a scene (GIL and I wanted it), particularly one outside the club, but I like to think Sophia's character in particular reinforces the game's core theme: people selling themselves. Which, hey... sure, could be done as a dude or without much interaction with the MC, but this is a porn game. His assistant is going to be a hot woman that gets some play. That's just the natural order of things.

(Sophia hasn't even had a scene yet mind you, beyond piggy backing off a Kat scene.)

I'm guessing it's the mysterious visit that's be responsible for the animations. I'm not as enthusiastic about that, but it might still give us some insights into a relatively significant character so it's still likely to be worthwhile.

The surge in animations is mostly some forward planning stuff GIL did while I got my ducks in a row. Only 6 of the 18 reported are in the script as of now, and topically, those are not related to a side character's visit.