VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[UmbralKnight]

you do not have to feel like a cuck! On the contrary! I think the menioned situation arises from a far too wide definition of cuckold. Something we can see in many game threads.

most people who complain about it are those who think if any of the LIs ever have sex with anyone other than the MC
then it's "cuck" or "NTR" even if the LIs have done it before meeting the MC or even if it's in an alternative scenario depending on the MCs choice

most definitions and semantics people use to define their opinions on such topics are very vague too

but such comparisons doesn't end there with defining who is a "cuck" or what can be considered as "NTR"

for example i remember arguing with multiple people few months ago over sexuality of Veronica and whether she truly liked/loves the MC or not

their main arguments were that since is a bi-sexual women who leans heavily towards the lesbian side

she can't by the general definition of the word truly ever love the MC as she loves women and she and the MC can't be together in the future as the best they could hope for is a fling

all of them even though have played the same game and seen the same scenes with the MC and Veronica seem to dissociate from what they're literally seeing and playing in because of some vague definition in their mind of what they consider a lesbian/bi woman should be like

Nothing worse for an author than having created characters they're not allowed to kill because the fanbase would lynch them. And an empty stomach, maybe, but that's beside the point.

not to sound like a complete contrarian
but i would rather have an alternative ending for a character i love like Veronica where she "leaves" the game earlier in a short and sweet ending rather than force here to be a participant all way the through to the final ending and to only torment her further for amusement of the club patrons

after all from a purely meta narrative point of view if you truly love/like a character would you rather hope that they get a sweet ending or would you just like the members of the ingame club wish to put them through all kinds of tests,trials and tribulations for your entertainment and more "content"

for example i would rather have Veronica quit or just have some kind of Deus Ex Machina ending rather than again be humiliated or put through some kind of sick and twisted punishment like what happened when she hit samson

but everyone knows that's what going to happen if she sticks around till the final episode of the game and worse things could happen to her if she looses the final round

it could happen to any of the LIs too
everyone of them will be subjected to further and further humiliations and torment as the game gets closer and closer to it's finale

so that's why I would prefer that i character i love getting an earlier end off rather than be dragged all the way to the ending to suffer more

sure i would hate the fact that cutting off a character prematurely before the ending means less content for that particular character and it would definitely impact the storyline of that particular character too

but it would work in favour of the character depending on the ending and the epilogue of the game

 

[Idontplay]

This game probably have a bad ending, so what's the worst thing could happen to Hana? And with this story setting, i don't think character death is off the list.

Spoiler: For your own sake don't read this!

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Guys, you must don't ask that kind of questions, when I'm around: I'm very talented in turning the stories in an Inferno; if I want a happy ending.

 

[slightchance]

not to sound like a complete contrarian [...]

You sound like someone who wouldn't put her through the wringer to begin with, which is commendable if this was a real-life scenario. It probably would make this game quite boring and predictable if they got out scot-free on every path.

after all from a purely meta narrative point of view if you truly love/like a character would you rather hope that they get a sweet ending or would you just like the members of the ingame club wish to put them through all kinds of tests,trials and tribulations for your entertainment and more "content"

I don't want a kitschy ending (that isn't earned) just to shield myself from emotions. When our strong willed heroines face their challenges it's okay to suffer a little as well. But maybe it's you who needs an easy out more than they do, eh?

 

[Turret]

most people who complain about it are those who think if any of the LIs ever have sex with anyone other than the MC
then it's "cuck" or "NTR" even if the LIs have done it before meeting the MC or even if it's in an alternative scenario depending on the MCs choice

most definitions and semantics people use to define their opinions on such topics are very vague too

but such comparisons doesn't end there with defining who is a "cuck" or what can be considered as "NTR"

for example i remember arguing with multiple people few months ago over sexuality of Veronica and whether she truly liked/loves the MC or not

their main arguments were that since is a bi-sexual women who leans heavily towards the lesbian side

she can't by the general definition of the word truly ever love the MC as she loves women and she and the MC can't be together in the future as the best they could hope for is a fling

all of them even though have played the same game and seen the same scenes with the MC and Veronica seem to dissociate from what they're literally seeing and playing in because of some vague definition in their mind of what they consider a lesbian/bi woman should be like

Yes, I have seen some headscratchers about "cucking" and "NTR" too. Among the WTF examples was a discussion where the MC voyeured on an exhibitionistic couple, said couple in a happy marriage btw, and then came some posts with "oh, this game is full of cucking and NTR". Really, guys, what did you smoke, please tell us, it must be good.

As for Veronica, I think outside the specific LI paths for her, there is no really viable relationship beside friendship with Edwin possible. Not because of her sexual orientation, but because of her character traits as a whole. For example, in my three personal canon playthroughs (which have other main LIs) only once did I get enough points to invite Veronica after an exhibition despite playing a nice Edwin who wants to help the three carnations.
And that one time was with specifically playing towards these points, making some decisions I would not choose otherwise.

Laser tattoo removal + breast reduction surgery.

Well, I could see Kath finally losing it and threatening Hana with tattoo removal if she does not sell her shares of the club to her.
Or another fate for Hana: getting saddled with a totally "East Asian" name like Mie-Ze explanation for those not getting the wordplay: Mieze (spoken in English probably Meetsah, end e is never silent in German) is a playful nickname in German for a cat. This wordplay is quite old, already used in the cult comic and cartoon detective series "Nick Knatterton", which was full of name and other wordplays. examples: Mi-Tse Meyer, German-Chinese owner of the Alibi Bar and Tino Talmi, VIP jeweller, with the joke being Talmi is a German word for cheap mass production jewellery. Nick himself was modelled after movie legend Hans Albers when he played Sherlock Holmes.

All names on this page are possible in reality, but also wordplays

 

[Ragnar]

This game probably have a bad ending, so what's the worst thing could happen to Hana? And with this story setting, i don't think character death is off the list.

I expect some bad endings because the inspiration for PL are Sei Shoujo works, Bible Black, Discipline, Starless... there are some dark shit in those works. But so far PL is not as extreme as some of those, so I'm pretty sure snuff is off the table.

 

[Giggling Raven]

Laser tattoo removal + breast reduction surgery.

The tattoo removal I could definitely get behind, but don't touch her tits. That's too cruel a fate.

 

[Ungawa]

Laser tattoo removal + breast reduction surgery.

... You MONSTER!

Of all things in this world of debauchery....

Don't. Touch. The. TITS!

>_<;

 

[Ottoeight]

Leave our favourites characters alone, please...

 

[Whatever whenever]

Leave our favourites characters alone, please...

Kilian alone

 

[Whatever whenever]

tattoo removal It'll only benefit that dumb biker. Everyone has long known what tattoos on a woman's body mean. This is the stigma of a prostitute.

 

[Idontplay]

Sniff, sniff! I smell the scent of a troll.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

... You MONSTER!

Of all things in this world of debauchery....

Don't. Touch. The. TITS!

>_<;

Leave the Tits and the Tats.

 

[Buletti]

Yes, I have seen some headscratchers about "cucking" and "NTR" too. Among the WTF examples was a discussion where the MC voyeured on an exhibitionistic couple, said couple in a happy marriage btw, and then came some posts with "oh, this game is full of cucking and NTR". Really, guys, what did you smoke, please tell us, it must be good.

As for Veronica, I think outside the specific LI paths for her, there is no really viable relationship beside friendship with Edwin possible. Not because of her sexual orientation, but because of her character traits as a whole. For example, in my three personal canon playthroughs (which have other main LIs) only once did I get enough points to invite Veronica after an exhibition despite playing a nice Edwin who wants to help the three carnations.
And that one time was with specifically playing towards these points, making some decisions I would not choose otherwise.

Well, I could see Kath finally losing it and threatening Hana with tattoo removal if she does not sell her shares of the club to her.
Or another fate for Hana: getting saddled with a totally "East Asian" name like Mie-Ze explanation for those not getting the wordplay: Mieze (spoken in English probably Meetsah, end e is never silent in German) is a playful nickname in German for a cat. This wordplay is quite old, already used in the cult comic and cartoon detective series "Nick Knatterton", which was full of name and other wordplays. examples: Mi-Tse Meyer, German-Chinese owner of the Alibi Bar and Tino Talmi, VIP jeweller, with the joke being Talmi is a German word for cheap mass production jewellery. Nick himself was modelled after movie legend Hans Albers when he played Sherlock Holmes.
View attachment 5135996 View attachment 5136002
All names on this page are possible in reality, but also wordplays

View attachment 5136005

Kombiniere: I totally did not expect an excerpt about Nick Knatterton in this thread when I started to scroll down.

Some good faps back in the days before internet was invented.

 

[Turret]

Kombiniere: I totally did not expect an excerpt about Nick Knatterton in this thread when I started to scroll down.

Some good faps back in the days before internet was invented.

Kombiniere: Good times! I was a little boy when the cartoon series aired first. Great fun, but a lot of the (thankfully complete politically incorrect) jokes and wordplays went over my head at that young age. Appreciated both comics and cartoons more when I got a bit older.
I simply had to give the non-German members a bit of background for the naming wordplays.

 

[ffive]

The tattoo removal I could definitely get behind, but don't touch her tits. That's too cruel a fate.

... You MONSTER!

Of all things in this world of debauchery....

Don't. Touch. The. TITS!

>_<;

Leave our favourites characters alone, please...

So many people wishing chronic back pains on the poor girl for their own gratification, smh.

 

[Kameri]

Damn

So many people wishing chronic back pains on the poor girl for their own gratification, smh.

Bad bitch don't age, i'm not worried

 

[Whatever whenever]

Would it be too harsh to wish for the end of the game to be where the MC becomes the owner of this illegal empire and Hana is a perverted and drug-addled sex toy?

 

[ffive]

Would it be too harsh to wish for the end of the game to be where the MC becomes the owner of this illegal empire and Hana is a perverted and drug-addled sex toy?

Yes, very. You should feel ashamed next time you fap to this mental image. Almost as much as Edwin when he watches his mom's videos.

 

[Whatever whenever]

Yes, very. You should feel ashamed next time you fap to this mental image. Almost as much as Edwin when he watches his mom's videos.

 

[sunaboz]

Who do you think would be most rational choice for Edwin's long time partner?

1) Hana - while she's fan's favourite I don't think she would be a good choice in the long term, especially if Edwin would like to have a real family (with kids that is). Since her mother has Huntington's disease it is likely she will have it too (and even if not her then her children). She's also a criminal basically so there would always be a chance that she would end up in jail (it remains to be seen if she would be left alone once August would be gone and she would have sold her shares). And even though she doesn't have to worry about competition from other crime organisations while August lives, once he's gone she wouldn't have manpower or connections that he has (that could change of course but that would require her to break bad fully and even then she wouldn't be able to reach the status that August has).

2) Mina - now that's a good catch and the best candidate for Edwin IMO. Although I would prefer her to go back to Killian, from a logical point of view she would be the best choice. She's young, intelligent, has a brother (and a good brother-in-law is a treasure) and is steadily building up her career. She also comes from a fairly wealthy family which never hurts. She's a loyal partner too with not much experience (Ian and Edwin and that's it). I could elaborate further but I don't want to make this post a wall of text so I'll stop here.

3) Veronica - the worst choice of all the characters IMO. She's bisexual for starters (and skews towards women at that), with tendency to having many partners (she goes to the club to pick up girls regularly). She's also divorced, has short temper and has a huge debt.

4) Rose - as bad of a choice as Veronica, mainly because she has a kid so Edwin would always be someone much less precious to her. She's also not too bright, has a debt and in general is a very bad long-time partner material.

5) Felicia - even though she's my favourite character I don't think she would be the best choice, though out of all carnations she's the best candidate (but with the bar being so low that doesn't say much). She's intelligent, sophisticated, has no children of her own and has no debts for once. IIRC, she's the only one with higher education out of the people above (she's psychology major).

6) Sophia - she's super intelligent, beautiful, fairly young (younger than Veronica even) and is single. The problem is she seems to be fucked up in the head (at least from what we've seen so far). Still, out of all women that we've seen in PC she would be the best choice for a long time partner for Edwin (excluding Mina). The question is - would she even be interested in Edwin in that way?

7) Lucy - after Felicia the hottest character in the whole game IMO but when it comes to wife material she's less than optimal (mainly due to her having children).

I won't mention other prostitutes (like Andrea, who is sweet and super hot at the same time) or characters above forty (like Grace, who is my favourite MILF) since they are not the most logical choices (the heart wants what the heart wants, here I'm speculating who would be the best candidate on paper).

One of the things I took into account were hobbies and skills those women have and Hana and Sophia win this by far. On the other end of the spectrum is Veronica, it always cracks me up when she says she's a life coach . Oh, and thank you TD for adding the "Life coach?" option: