VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Biscardone]

An update we release in one month, apart from the question narrative coherence, would be roughly 1/4th the size of what we release in 4 months. Actually, releasing four updates over 4 months would probably have less content, due to stop-and-go aspect and releasing builds coming with its own administrative time sinks. At the very least, it would inform the pacing of events in a way that would be a detriment to the project's quality.

All trolling aside, that's something that needs to be stressed. I'm a consultant in the IT industry, and I can't even remember the number of times that the customer management asked me to do what I could to "reduce the development time". Be it adding other people to a project with tasks that require a hefty warm-up and can't be handled in parallel (a.k.a. "nine women can give birth to a child in a month"), or asking people to perform multiple tasks at one, as if stopping-and-going (a.k.a. "context switch") didn't have any overhead or quality implication.

That's something that is often seen in the Patreon-sphere: to decrease the development times, authors are often asked to "add more developers / artists" and "split releases in multiple chunks". And the answer should almost always be a resounding no. There is no magical formula, or modern development technique, to speed up a game release - at least, no formula that doesn't imply a quality impact, in any case. Developers, or game authors in this case, have to find a process that is fine to them. It may not be the best process in absolute terms, but hell, we're humans and we deserve to strike a good balance between "productivity" and "self-satisfaction" (God, how I hate marketing terms).

Oh, and laziness accusations, in this specific and many other cases, can go straight in the bin. If someone thinks that this is "milking", well, they don't know much of how real life works, and I'm surprised they can function in real life at all.

 

[Takkatakka]

I really hope that the dev has planned a way soon where Hana would be exposed during the shows, doing sexual things, I don't want her to just be a judge, I want her to participate. Besides, is a show planned for the upcoming update?

That wouldn't fit either Hana nor her place at the club now (and I seriously doubt August would let that happen in the first place).

The upcoming patch will be set at a Wednesday, so the next show will likely be like 1-2 patches out, depending on how much will be happening the remainder of the in-game week.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

That wouldn't fit either Hana nor her place at the club now (and I seriously doubt August would let that happen in the first place).

The upcoming patch will be set at a Wednesday, so the next show will likely be like 1-2 patches out, depending on how much will be happening the remainder of the in-game week.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Takkatakka]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I mean...sure, TD could be really evil and somehow drag in Hana and possibly even Mina as well. Then again the club has some level of at least free will. Like the women aren't technically raped for example. They are there on their own free will and they can (at least as far as I can see) also leave if they want. Could this change if shit really hits the fan? Sure.

But right now there is no tag that would indicate anything along those lines and Hana herself surely wouldn't join the show as a more direct participant. She seems to be disgusted enough just by having to be there.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I mean...sure, TD could be really evil and somehow drag in Hana and possibly even Mina as well. Then again the club has some level of at least free will. Like the women aren't technically raped for example. They are there on their own free will and they can (at least as far as I can see) also leave if they want. Could this change if shit really hits the fan? Sure.

But right now there is no tag that would indicate anything along those lines and Hana herself surely wouldn't join the show as a more direct participant. She seems to be disgusted enough just by having to be there.

You sound kinda similar to Warren describing how Hana is untouchable during his conversation with Kathleen where that was her response...

 

[Takkatakka]

You sound kinda similar to Warren describing how Hana is untouchable during his conversation with Kathleen where that was her response...

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

She is refuting Warren's claim that their hands are tied in regard to a path of physical coercion (spanking )

 

[Takkatakka]

She is refuting Warren's claim that their hands are tied in regard to a path of physical coercion (spanking )

I have to play that scene again, but that was probably after the pool incident? I think the situation has changed now due to Hana essentially being Warren's boss.

 

[se20299]

It seems like Kat's plan is to make Hana more receptive to being the "madam" of the club, basically continuing Kat's grotesque spectacles instead of the club reverting to being a glorifoed whorehouse. She's definitely grooming both Edwin and Hana to take the place of August and Chuck, and without August's demand for profit, Kat will be able to fully transform the club into something else entierely, unrestricted by profit and business. Chuck is just there for a good time, and I doubt he'd be interested in just watching, like Kat seems to prefer it.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I have to play that scene again, but that was probably after the pool incident? I think the situation has changed now due to Hana essentially being Warren's boss.

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

 

[Takkatakka]

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

Oh, it has changed. Hana now owns more of the club than Kat.

 

[agrdtcwa]

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

In terms of hana's corruption I can see 2 things happening:

- Edwin corrupts her and makes her forget about her morals with the help of his magic cock
- Hana loses her morals with the help of Abel's magic drugs.

I dont see Hana being treated as a common whore just because she is in a position of power but I see her either doing Kat's job or Edwin manipulating her by taking advantage of whatever feelings she has for him.

 

[Blizzard99]

Has there been anything official mentioning the future of Marlow in the story? As in, is she gonna make a reappearance in the current timeline or will it be restricted to flashbacks about her.

 

[YuNobi1]

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

Kat believes that Hana will effectively replace August, and regardless of what happens in the next few weeks/months, change will come. I can't figure out Kat's ultimate goal, whether to fully unfetter herself with the new management, or transforming the club into her ultimate utopian vision and then retiring, having established her legacy. Oh she'll no doubt return as an exhibition spectator if she does retire.

She does seem to be wanting Hana to replace her, but again, I don't know if that's the goal, especially since she seems more committed to making Edwin her heir. If Kat is planning to stay for a long time, then Kat's logical strategy, knowing Hana's initial attitude toward the club, would be to make Hana invested not just financially, but in heart and mind. If Hana has had personal "investment" in the amenities, and thus has personal guilt/responsibility, not just associative, then she will be disarmed in viewing "those evil people who need to be taken down," when she is now one of those "evil people" by both shareholder, and participant, making it a lot harder for Hana to go through with "burning the house down". I obviously don't know TD's intentions, nor the depth of Kat's master planning, but it does seem like one of Kat's strategies in transforming Hana is giving her a sob story to root for, thus showing/convincing her that the Club is indeed helpful to women, not solely degrading. Thus she gets Rose, who strikes at Hana's sympathetic heartstrings, and Edwin, counting on him favoring Rose due to his background, which leads him to helping her specifically, thus Kat decides before Rose and Edwin are at the Club that Rose will win the competition.

Naturally the problem is this might take away too much player agency, so I don’t know if TD has planned this. The counter-argument could be made that the player agency comes in with Edwin choosing whether or not to help Rose, thus rejecting her muddles Kat's plans, forcing her to adjust. It can also be suggested that Kat also choose Felicia, being a sex-fanatic peer to Hana competing for a good time, and Veronica, the image of a strong independent woman crossing the finish line standing tall and "undegraded" thus challenging Hana's paradigm. Yes, Veronica had to qualify, but that was so clearly one-sided in focusing on endurance tests, so Lucy never had a shot.

 

[se20299]

Kat believes that Hana will effectively replace August, and regardless of what happens in the next few weeks/months, change will come. I can't figure out Kat's ultimate goal, whether to fully unfetter herself with the new management, or transforming the club into her ultimate utopian vision and then retiring, having established her legacy. Oh she'll no doubt return as an exhibition spectator if she does retire.

She does seem to be wanting Hana to replace her, but again, I don't know if that's the goal, especially since she seems more committed to making Edwin her heir. If Kat is planning to stay for a long time, then Kat's logical strategy, knowing Hana's initial attitude toward the club, would be to make Hana invested not just financially, but in heart and mind. If Hana has had personal "investment" in the amenities, and thus has personal guilt/responsibility, not just associative, then she will be disarmed in viewing "those evil people who need to be taken down," when she is now one of those "evil people" by both shareholder, and participant, making it a lot harder for Hana to go through with "burning the house down". I obviously don't know TD's intentions, nor the depth of Kat's master planning, but it does seem like one of Kat's strategies in transforming Hana is giving her a sob story to root for, thus showing/convincing her that the Club is indeed helpful to women, not solely degrading. Thus she gets Rose, who strikes at Hana's sympathetic heartstrings, and Edwin, counting on him favoring Rose due to his background, which leads him to helping her specifically, thus Kat decides before Rose and Edwin are at the Club that Rose will win the competition.

Naturally the problem is this might take away too much player agency, so I don’t know if TD has planned this. The counter-argument could be made that the player agency comes in with Edwin choosing whether or not to help Rose, thus rejecting her muddles Kat's plans, forcing her to adjust. It can also be suggested that Kat also choose Felicia, being a sex-fanatic peer to Hana competing for a good time, and Veronica, the image of a strong independent woman crossing the finish line standing tall and "undegraded" thus challenging Hana's paradigm. Yes, Veronica had to qualify, but that was so clearly one-sided in focusing on endurance tests, so Lucy never had a shot.

I don't think Kat's master plan revolves around Edwin's mommy issues. One clould argue that having Edwin around may make Hana more comfortable, but Edwin might not even be friends with Hana, or even worse for Kat, a good Edwin may steer Hana away from the club. Sure, she's using Rose to pull the heartstring on Edwin's Vicky shaped heart, and Kat personally calling Victoria gets to Edwin no matter his alignment. But I still think that's a flimsy foundation of a business takeover. I think Edwin's been a curiosity for Kat, as his many weaknesses, most of which revolve around our favorite pornstar, appeal to Kat's predatory instict. And while she can't overtly fuck with him because of Chuck, she still enjoys poking at his wounds using Rose as the weapon, knowimg damn well he's gonna fall for the bait. Since Victoria never got famous by pornstar standards, and returned to a low key life without much fuss, my theory is that August informed Kat about Edwin's mom, as he's probably deeply acquainted with Ms Turner. It just makes no sense to me that kad did such a thorough background check for a helping hand, especially since Chuck personally vouched for him. But I digress.

I think Hana is the key to the kingdom Kat has been waiting for. Like you said, she's counting on sunk cost fallacy to keep Hana chained to the club, and she's counting on Hana's consience to phase out the prostitution aspect of the club once August retires, as Kat's already selling the fantasy of "helping" women in need by holding her depraved competitions, and allowing Hana to put an end to the prostitution aspect will go a long way to make her more tolerant of Kat's activities. So while Edwin's just a plaything she can poke, prod and corrupt, Hana's the only way Kat can take complete control of the club and run it her way without anyone interfering, and she's already working to mold Hana into an unwitting pawn.

Tl;dr: Hana's the one with the keys to the kingdom, and Edwin's too big of a variable to reliably plan around.

 

[YuNobi1]

Tl;dr: ...and Edwin's too big of a variable to reliably plan around.

I strongly disagree. Kat's commentary on Edwin, both when he's in and out of the room, run the attitude of "this boy is a marionette, and everyone can see his easily pulled strings but him." He doesn't realize how malleable he truly is be the likes of Ian and Chuck, and even with people he doesn't like, Edwin's strings can still be pulled by intentionally triggering his adversity (i.e. want Edwin to get angry, send him to Sampson). Chuck obviously wants to maintain the "there are no strings" illusion, and Edwin is so oblivious to it that his natural response is to lash out when somebody points out the strings, as he does with Kat and Abel. Of course he's right to then question if by pointing out some strings, the conspirators are themselves inevitably pulling on other strings, thus his search for Kat's and Abel's respective end-goals. Even Edwin is now starting to realize the pull strings, but he's not considering all the puppeteers, nor their full intentions. Now does Kat merely believe that Pinocchio's strings should be cut, while gaining what use she can out of an asset like Edwin, or does she believe that by empowering his sadism he will become even more controllable by her, I don't know yet.

All that to say: Edwin is NOT an uncontrollable variable. Yes he may make a few individual choices that aren't in Kat's favor, but she's still herding him within the boundaries of her overall plan, whatever that may be. Whether aligning or resisting her, nothing Edwin has decided thus far can disrupt Kat's trajectory (except maybe fueling Hana's general anger and specific hatred of the Club, but that's too far ahead to predict final results).

 

[se20299]

I strongly disagree. Kat's commentary on Edwin, both when he's in and out of the room, run the attitude of "this boy is a marionette, and everyone can see his easily pulled strings but him." He doesn't realize how malleable he truly is be the likes of Ian and Chuck, and even with people he doesn't like, Edwin's strings can still be pulled by intentionally triggering his adversity (i.e. want Edwin to get angry, send him to Sampson). Chuck obviously wants to maintain the "there are no strings" illusion, and Edwin is so oblivious to it that his natural response is to lash out when somebody points out the strings, as he does with Kat and Abel. Of course he's right to then question if by pointing out some strings, the conspirators are themselves inevitably pulling on other strings, thus his search for Kat's and Abel's respective end-goals. Even Edwin is now starting to realize the pull strings, but he's not considering all the puppeteers, nor their full intentions. Now does Kat merely believe that Pinocchio's strings should be cut, while gaining what use she can out of an asset like Edwin, or does she believe that by empowering his sadism he will become even more controllable by her, I don't know yet.

All that to say: Edwin is NOT an uncontrollable variable. Yes he may make a few individual choices that aren't in Kat's favor, but she's still herding him within the boundaries of her overall plan, whatever that may be. Whether aligning or resisting her, nothing Edwin has decided thus far can disrupt Kat's trajectory (except maybe fueling Hana's general anger and specific hatred of the Club, but that's too far ahead to predict final results).

That begs the question: what are Chuck's motives? He's by far the most mysterious character in the game. It makes no sense to pay someone's whole tuition just so they can help around at your sex club, and it's a huge gamble to reveal the club to Edwin because his prior relationship with Edwin was based on the "professor Chuck" mask. Chuck might as well have paid his tuition for free, because the only people pulling Edwin's strings are Kat and Abel. Chuck seems to have no dog in the race, and Edwin's closest supervisor, Kat, seems to work against both Chuck's and August's interests. If he genuinely likes Edwin and wants him to succeed, it seems stupid to reveal himself as an old pervert.

Maybe in his fucked up brain he IS showing love for Edwin and looking out for him. Maybe he offered Edwin the job to make Ian happy. Maybe the theory that August used to pimp Victoria out to men like Chuck is true and he gets sick pleasure out of involving her son in the family business. Vicky certainly seemed unsettled when talking about Chuck, and wouldn't elaborate why. Perhaps she experienced "uncle Chuck's" perversions first hand. Or it could be anything else.

Chuck's motivations may be the final puzzle piece for the endgame, and we still know nothing. We can't analyze Edwin's place on the chessboard properly if we don't know what all the players want, after all. Because if all there is to Chuck is an old pervert, it makes no sense for him to drag some random kid he used to teach into the club. If he's looking for an heir, he already molded Ian into a carbon copy of himself. What use would he have for a shut in loser like Edwin. We have no idea if Chuck is pulling Edwin's strings, and if he is, for what purpose?

 

[Ness99]

Approximately how long is there a delay between each update? 6 months ? How many scenes more or less?

 

[Bill Temple]

Approximately how long is there a delay between each update? 6 months ? How many scenes more or less?

Looking at previous update periodicity:
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-update-3-mutt-jeff.50281/post-11865264

Comparing current progress with previous updates:
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-update-3-mutt-jeff.50281/post-12410680

 

[Ungawa]

So just finished the content in my playthrough, it's not finalized thoughts and I haven't been here a while. Main stuff is that I'm seeing where most of the characters are going and the dual twist where I like it. Mostly did a blind playthrough. Still solid, well worth the replays (which are coming) and I still have to decide on a system and process that makes sense because the saves are all over the place. For the most part, I have to do ONE more run where I'm unlocking the content, THEN I'm doing my ideal runs. Still haven't quite gotten to THAT part yet so...

Gonna do one more runthrough where I focus on interviewing Rosalind and a few other things. Also need to change Edwin to a social chameleon to get those last few videos to unlock.

Then I'll write the big review of how I see it so far...

That begs the question: what are Chuck's motives? He's by far the most mysterious character in the game. It makes no sense to pay someone's whole tuition just so they can help around at your sex club, and it's a huge gamble to reveal the club to Edwin because his prior relationship with Edwin was based on the "professor Chuck" mask. Chuck might as well have paid his tuition for free, because the only people pulling Edwin's strings are Kat and Abel. Chuck seems to have no dog in the race, and Edwin's closest supervisor, Kat, seems to work against both Chuck's and August's interests. If he genuinely likes Edwin and wants him to succeed, it seems stupid to reveal himself as an old pervert.

Maybe in his fucked up brain he IS showing love for Edwin and looking out for him. Maybe he offered Edwin the job to make Ian happy. Maybe the theory that August used to pimp Victoria out to men like Chuck is true and he gets sick pleasure out of involving her son in the family business. Vicky certainly seemed unsettled when talking about Chuck, and wouldn't elaborate why. Perhaps she experienced "uncle Chuck's" perversions first hand. Or it could be anything else.

Chuck's motivations may be the final puzzle piece for the endgame, and we still know nothing. We can't analyze Edwin's place on the chessboard properly if we don't know what all the players want, after all. Because if all there is to Chuck is an old pervert, it makes no sense for him to drag some random kid he used to teach into the club. If he's looking for an heir, he already molded Ian into a carbon copy of himself. What use would he have for a shut in loser like Edwin. We have no idea if Chuck is pulling Edwin's strings, and if he is, for what purpose?

Chuck is more or less taking care of family. While he's a hedonist, he doesn't get along with August because August is small time compared to him. He believes that the women and the pleasure is something for young men with the high clientele enjoying the pleasures of the flesh.

In a sense, Chuck is Zeus in Olympus enjoying the ambrosia. Remember, he's constantly pointed out that Edwin is family to Kat and others. And even though he's molded Ian into his image and forced him to be cultured with the games of intellect (chess, Go), Ian has not matured in his eyes due to his own hangups.