Patreon Account Selling Pirated Games - Developers Beware

Domiek

In a Scent
Donor
Game Developer
Jun 19, 2018
1,946
9,919
As far as I know if you buy something you have the right to sell it.
How can you be on a piracy site yet know nothing about piracy? Go buy a copy of a movie you like, better yet, go with a video camera into a theater and record it. Please then sell your bootleg copies in front of a police station and then report back to us.
 

DownTheDrain

Well-Known Member
Donor
Aug 25, 2017
1,731
3,814
As far as I know if you buy something you have the right to sell it.
I'm no authority on copyright laws but I'm absolutely certain you're wrong in this case.
First sale doctrine doesn't apply to video games (in the US) and even if it did, he's not reselling a copy of a game, he's selling download links to unlimited copies. That's not distribution, that's reproduction.
 

Silk_Ari

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 21, 2017
708
1,853
I understand that and that also people are upset, the op of this thread has not proven that Miagamehouse did not pay for the games originally through patreon. As far as I know if you buy something you have the right to sell it.

Umm NO and NO. You don't BUY the game on Patreon, you support the DEV. There's a MAJOR difference. I think you're also confusing "Goods" with "Copyright" material. For one thing, selling ANY game using the RenPy engine is forbidden...so I don't know what you're talking about.
 

Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,956
19,758
Wouldn't surprise me if whoever is running this Miagamehouse, stole the "identity" of that pinup girl to be the face of Miagamehouse to sucker in gullible people. Seeing how clearly dishonest they are.
(Keep in mind I don't actually know all of this. I'm getting this through a third party)

Apparently, that's the case. This person reverse image searched one of the pinups, and found a couple more.

(He says "If you like my outfit, let me know" Even a tag on his post is "Myself" :ROFLMAO:)

(Url of this image says "attractive-christmas-girl-in-a-sexual-lingerie-and-red-mittens-and-santa-s-cap-christmas-ni.jpg")
 
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gamersglory

Xpression Games
Donor
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2017
1,356
3,558
Umm NO and NO. You don't BUY the game on Patreon, you support the DEV. There's a MAJOR difference. I think you're also confusing "Goods" with "Copyright" material. For one thing, selling ANY game using the RenPy engine is forbidden...so I don't know what you're talking about.
Ren'py license agreement:
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person
obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files
(the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction,
including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge,
publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software,
and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so,
subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
So yes you can sell games on Ren'py as for how you view patreon The games are given as rewards to those that support at a certain level so it is the legal definition of a sale or service in kind. The support on patreon at that specified level is a grant of a license to use the game for the period of patronage. Not for Resale
 
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Conviction07

Active Member
Game Developer
May 6, 2017
771
3,247
I understand that and that also people are upset, the op of this thread has not proven that Miagamehouse did not pay for the games originally through patreon. As far as I know if you buy something you have the right to sell it.
I don't have to prove it. They claim to be buying the games as soon as they're released, which implies they'd have to be pledging to the higher tiers so they can gain the earliest possible access. That's $10, $20 or even $30 or more PER game and then making their entire catalogue available for a measly $1. There's no way they'd be turning a profit with that business model unless they had maybe thousands of patrons. And you can bet your ass they're not playing the long game because they'd be stupid not to know it won't be long before they're shut down. They're pulling a hit and run.

And as for having the right to sell it, this isn't a single, used copy of a video game they're selling on ebay where in doing so they're relinquishing ownership of it. It's a limitless, digital copy that they're mass distributing.
 

おい!

Engaged Member
Mar 25, 2018
2,576
7,564
Umm NO and NO. You don't BUY the game on Patreon, you support the DEV. There's a MAJOR difference. I think you're also confusing "Goods" with "Copyright" material. For one thing, selling ANY game using the RenPy engine is forbidden...so I don't know what you're talking about.
How can you be on a piracy site yet know nothing about piracy? Go buy a copy of a movie you like, better yet, go with a video camera into a theater and record it. Please then sell your bootleg copies in front of a police station and then report back to us.
So I have got it wrong and I apologize about that comment I made. So if someone cannot buy the game and are only contributing money to the devs, because of using Ren'Py for example. Then surely anyone can share the games if they so choose? What legal rights do devs have to stop it, is what Miagamehouse doing illegal? or just morally wrong. I am no expert on the subject so can someone enlighten me. Can a dev sue them in a court of law, for what they are doing.
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
Donor
Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
3,360
5,223
Bloo told us to get back on topic here. Anyone who wishes to continue the HS topic can feel free to here.

 
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Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,956
19,758
So I have got it wrong and I apologize about that comment I made. So if someone cannot buy the game and are only contributing money to the devs, because of using Ren'Py for example. Then surely anyone can share the games if they so choose? What legal rights do devs have to stop it, is what Miagamehouse doing illegal? or just morally wrong. I am no expert on the subject so can someone enlighten me. Can a dev sue them in a court of law, for what they are doing.
They aren't contributing money to devs though. They're just copy/pasting download links from here and selling it for $1.

Is it illegal? I don't know. Should it exist? I don't think so.

edit: In any case, I don't think Patreon would ever allow people to sell another Patreon's content.
 

W65

Active Member
May 31, 2018
779
849
You folks developing on Patreon are probably already savvy to this kind of thing, but if you haven't done so then you might want to investigate exactly what Patreon's stance is regarding their ownership of your work. I wouldn't imagine that they could make any claim to it at all, but strange things happen since they're sorta digitally touching the money side of things. It pays to protect your rights regarding your work and to know your exact standing with respect to folks who are working with your property (even if Patreon ends up being sort of a glorified advertising platform).

It also could be of benefit for you to expressly state the license under which you're distributing your stuff when you provide links or however you distribute digital content both to patrons and the public. I'm not an intellectual property professional, but if you're a digital content creator and make enough money to do it reasonably, you might want to consider consulting one to be sure that you're correctly protecting your rights as a creator. It'd be terrible to try to DMCA someone pulling tricks like this and then get hung up by something you can't prove or some thing like that. Indie Japanese game devs are able to have file sharing sites pull their content under DMCA (or at least to get Google to delist links to it), so it's reasonably possible for small dev houses to do it, I expect, even though I know nothing about the procedure or the law itself.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're a creator of digital content of any kind, it's a wise move to educate yourself about intellectual property law enough that you can correctly assert your rights when you feel you need to do it. That's sort of a truism when it comes to anyone charging money for anything, really.

(I feel like this is the kind of thing that an adult video game developer's association would be able to help struggling indie devs with, but that sort of thing doesn't exist as far as I know.)
 
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N1K17Y

Active Member
Jun 12, 2017
829
2,377
Umm NO and NO. You don't BUY the game on Patreon, you support the DEV. There's a MAJOR difference. I think you're also confusing "Goods" with "Copyright" material. For one thing, selling ANY game using the RenPy engine is forbidden...so I don't know what you're talking about.
thats just in theory. how is "give me 1$/3$/5$ a month or you dont get access to my game" anything but selling it ? maybe you dont buy it, you can call it a subscription fee but its definitely far from support. especially with someone like Palmer for example who even has DRM on his game.
plus im pretty sure there are games on Steam that are made with renpy. i doubt all of them are free
So I have got it wrong and I apologize about that comment I made. So if someone cannot buy the game and are only contributing money to the devs, because of using Ren'Py for example. Then surely anyone can share the games if they so choose? What legal rights do devs have to stop it, is what Miagamehouse doing illegal? or just morally wrong. I am no expert on the subject so can someone enlighten me. Can a dev sue them in a court of law, for what they are doing.
i dont think any devs here can sue you if you download their game and present it somewhere else as yours. but the platforms you are using to sell it to others might step in and ban you.
 

HiEv

Member
Sep 1, 2017
384
779
I was gonna report this Patreon, but the only way to do so is a DMCA claim
Not entirely accurate. You can report a Patreon account for copyright infringement using this form for " ", without having to file a DMCA claim. (Found at the bottom of the "All About Being a Patron" section in Patreon's .)
 
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Felicityskye

Member
Jan 8, 2018
479
753
(Keep in mind I don't actually know all of this. I'm getting this through a third party)

Apparently, that's the case. This person reverse image searched one of the pinups, and found a couple more.

(He says "If you like my outfit, let me know" Even a tag on his post is "Myself" :ROFLMAO:)

(Url of this image says "attractive-christmas-girl-in-a-sexual-lingerie-and-red-mittens-and-santa-s-cap-christmas-ni.jpg")
Looks like these photos were taken from Shutterstock. From photographer Kiselev Andrey Valerevich's portfolio. lol

 
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gamersglory

Xpression Games
Donor
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2017
1,356
3,558
thats just in theory. how is "give me 1$/3$/5$ a month or you dont get access to my game" anything but selling it ? maybe you dont buy it, you can call it a subscription fee but its definitely far from support. especially with someone like Palmer for example who even has DRM on his game.
plus im pretty sure there are games on Steam that are made with renpy

i dont think any devs here can sue you if you download their game and present it somewhere else as yours. but the platforms you are using to sell it to others might step in and ban you.
Patreon is subject to the laws of the state of California and US copyright and trademark law. Which Infers that when you create something it is your Intelectual Property or IP therefor ownership is implied. why we don't sue US law is costly lawyers are expensive and by the time you won the case you spend more on court and legal costs then your patreon makes so you lose more money. Now if we were to sue you get together with multiple creators and do a Class action lawsuit. cheaper and more power to it as a group then one dev
 

Conviction07

Active Member
Game Developer
May 6, 2017
771
3,247
Well, on the bright side it looks like he's already on the decline. 12 Hours ago he was sitting on around $185 a month, now he's at $158. Although it could just be because it's the beginning of the month, I'd like to think we've had a hand in it too.
 

gamersglory

Xpression Games
Donor
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2017
1,356
3,558
Also loss of patreons right now could be due to the US government shutdown no government workers are getting paid right now
 
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muttdoggy

Dogerator
Staff member
Moderator
Aug 6, 2016
7,793
43,824
I wouldn't be surprised if their links are the same as ours which means they did not pay for it. Keep reporting this fool to patreon until the crows come home to roost.
 
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infernoxpx

Newbie
Feb 26, 2018
77
39
Hey just wanted to let ya'll now that I'm the guy that @Runey mentioned earlier who found the images and reversed searched them to find out that they aren't "Mia's". I'm betting the Christmas pinup album that they're hyping for 5 dollar backers is probably stolen pics of the same girl.

I also found their YouTube channel which has about 7 videos and 8 subscribers so far. Pure walkthroughs only.

Whoever they are, it's clear that "Mia" does not exist. It's a union of people. And the 100 dollar pledge even promises that you become an official member of the team.
 
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Conviction07

Active Member
Game Developer
May 6, 2017
771
3,247
I wouldn't be surprised if their links are the same as ours which means they did not pay for it. Keep reporting this fool to patreon until the crows come home to roost.
One guy on discord said they posted the same mega link to one of his games but with a broken url. So they couldn't even get that right lol.