There does seem to be this unspoken "censorship" gripe which kinda hints at wanting digital CP but never really says it explicitly. I mean, the alternative thing they want is...I dunno, graphic depictions of violent rape or something? Because the range of stuff you can't put in a game without getting instabanned is pretty slim.
who is they exactly be more specific if it is pointed at me then i have an issue i am mostly libertarian i believe in freedom and liberty people can pretty much do their own thing as long as it does not infringe on the rights of other people i have never condoned pedo's or rape on the contrary i have mentioned twitters inaction of letting these scum on their site which is one of the reasons i deleted twitter if i am mistaken and you were not references me then i apologize in advance
Mostly I'm just puzzled...on the one hand, legit concerns that this industry is too much dependent upon a single source of support and it could be taken away on a relative whim. On the other hand, what is permitted on the funding site is, well, fairly permissive as these things go. Even incest and underaged sexual activity can be portrayed in a game with a bit of a wink and a nod. So the question is, how much would be gained in terms of "artistic freedom" in a practical sense? It has been mentioned elsewhere that the sticking point is the payment vendors, who have gotten burned in the past by chargeback issues with adult providers so generally won't do it unless it's by special arrangement with someone big like pornhub. So even if you have subscribestar or someone else, so long as they're dependent upon the same card services, they're also vulnerable to the same "censorship".
I suspect one possible solution is for Pornhub et al to take over patronage of adult games. I dunno how that process would get under way, though. And, of course, whatever censorship restrictions they'd impose, you're stuck with.
well that is the question were is the limit i personally do not believe games/movies books cause real world violence rape etc the evidence points to the contrary are you aware of the conservative outrage over the game manhunt created by Rockstar in the early 2000's for all the outrage over the game i don't remember a single case of actual violence happening because of it as abhorrent as a piece of art can be on a fundamental level it is just art no actual human has been harmed and if they are to be censored well who does the censoring people come naturally with their own inherent biases for instance if the person doing the censoring is a Homophobe can i then no longer enjoy gay games this is the problem 3d loli content is particularly sick because it is a more accurate depiction of a child than 2d on a gut level i would love it to be banned but what gives me that right to decide for other people when no child has actually been harmed and so on a moral and philosophical level i can not say for certain but a way around the censorship of payment providers would be Bit Coin it is mostly a decentralized currency which companies like mastercard have no say over i personally have never used bit coin but i have no issue with using to pay Dev's if possible
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Yeah, well, I don't know about your own job, but for the devs that is their job.
They can give their users an alternative to Patreon, but that's as much as they can do.
Users can choose these alternatives instead of Patreon or ask to the developer to add alternative to Patreon, but if they want to make a difference, they must subscribe in these alternative sites. Or they can cry in a corner about the bad boys censoring their preferred shit, asking to SOMEONE ELSE (the devs) to take action, and be ignored.
They can give their users an alternative to Patreon, but that's as much as they can do.
Users can choose these alternatives instead of Patreon or ask to the developer to add alternative to Patreon, but if they want to make a difference, they must subscribe in these alternative sites. Or they can cry in a corner about the bad boys censoring their preferred shit, asking to SOMEONE ELSE (the devs) to take action, and be ignored.
There is no 'censorship' at Patreon.
There is just protecting its own business from what could cause it harm with the payment processors.
Rape, bestiality, the gratification of sex during mutilation (gore), and so on. Yeah... Wonder why they will 'censor' stuff like that...
I can 100% understand why they would deny stuff like that.
I have never heard of any adult dev who got removed from Patreon while not breaking the TOS. I've heard about false flagging that has paused the pages for a short while but that usually gets resolved. Sucks but that is because of butthurt people that report devs for stupid reasons.
The only thing I dislike Patreon for banning is incest. But it is what it is.
But the real reason majority (not all) hate Patreon is not because of their ban on rape and bestiality. Those are just used as a red herring. Their real anger is because their alt-right leaders are getting banned from Patreon.
And as Wol beautifully said; "Barely any of us give a crap about anything other than porn games"
We are porn players, porn makers, or both. The idea that you have to force your political view on us like that is so stupid.
"Either you support my personal beliefs or you should have your whole site/job/etc removed."
I simply cannot stand it. So idiotic.
Let have our porn free of idiotic politics. Especially extremist politics (right or left, I don't give a shit)
And to the people that say they don't 'give a fuck' about us devs because we won't sacrifice our careers for their extreme and personal political view. Well... We don't give a fuck about you either.
There is just protecting its own business from what could cause it harm with the payment processors.
Rape, bestiality, the gratification of sex during mutilation (gore), and so on. Yeah... Wonder why they will 'censor' stuff like that...
I can 100% understand why they would deny stuff like that.
I have never heard of any adult dev who got removed from Patreon while not breaking the TOS. I've heard about false flagging that has paused the pages for a short while but that usually gets resolved. Sucks but that is because of butthurt people that report devs for stupid reasons.
The only thing I dislike Patreon for banning is incest. But it is what it is.
But the real reason majority (not all) hate Patreon is not because of their ban on rape and bestiality. Those are just used as a red herring. Their real anger is because their alt-right leaders are getting banned from Patreon.
And as Wol beautifully said; "Barely any of us give a crap about anything other than porn games"
We are porn players, porn makers, or both. The idea that you have to force your political view on us like that is so stupid.
"Either you support my personal beliefs or you should have your whole site/job/etc removed."
I simply cannot stand it. So idiotic.
Let have our porn free of idiotic politics. Especially extremist politics (right or left, I don't give a shit)
And to the people that say they don't 'give a fuck' about us devs because we won't sacrifice our careers for their extreme and personal political view. Well... We don't give a fuck about you either.
already tried that with New Project 2 and then Mastercard globally blacklisted the site i doubt they liked the TOS which was made to make fun of the very notion of TOS
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Wait, wait, wait.
Do you care to explain why my subscription to a rape, mind control, or incest game is more dangerous to Patreon or credit card business than one regarding vanilla sex game?
People who play mc games end up being fraudolent and make false subscriptions more often than others?
Really?
Are you really asking me why rape, mind control, pedo stuff and other kinds of nonconsent and illegal activities are more 'dangerous' for a company than sexual stuff with consent and non-illegal?
Hmm... I wonder why...
Paypal and other payment processors have to take account of the many countries' views and legalities, especially regarding extreme stuff such as pedo stuff and rape stuff.
Ask yourself, you think companies such as PayPal and others care about the morality of all of this? Not saying they are monsters, but high-end businesses are not known for being 'moral before money-making'.
Money. They operate on money. Whatever may have a chance to harm the money-making they remove. Rape and pedo stuff is very much such things.
That's why adult stuff is such a fine line to walk on and every platform stays clear from it. And also why I like the few sites, such as Patreon, that is not turning their back on it. How many other sites do what Patreon does for the adult work?
Pornhub doesn't use paypal, well not anymore. Pornhub was using Paypal without Paypal's permission to do business transactions that didn't sit well with Paypal.
No point talking the gods aka mods might not approve they have already deleted multiple posts so why bother
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Can you avoid the straw man, to start with? I asked about rape, mind control and incest. The pedo is something you inserted by yourself.
Again, stop with the straw man, quit the damn pedo argument, which you included in the list.
About rape, I inform you that fake rape porn is made usually by porn companies... who are paid with credit card and paypal.
Dear god, again the pedo??????
For (fake) rape, (fake) incest and (fake) mind control, you can google by yourself and see how many porn companies sell those video, damn it, I remember a milf (who probably now is in the gilf territory) who had her own porn company with other milfs and were specialized only on the three subjects above. Damn it, I can't remember her name... EDIT Rachel Steele was the name, and she is only one example that comes in my mind.
Not sure you're all actually arguing with what a guy called "95zen" says;
I mean, it's kinda obvious that the only purpose of that account is to incite flaming around the forum.
All he seems to be able to do is calling devs cuck, cocksuckers and such for being on Patreon, without giving a solution at all.
That being said, the point here is:
- it's useless to use those so called "alternatives"( they're not), if your supporters from patreon don't give a shit about them and will never ever consider migrating there;
- as of now, the only site / platform that vaguely resemble Patreon is Subscribestar.adult, but while some creators have created their own pages there, their revenue is not even nearly as high as on patreon.
- most people like to use paypal / won't use anything else other than paypal, and that's why they will Never support something porn related outside of Patreon.
I mean, it's kinda obvious that the only purpose of that account is to incite flaming around the forum.
All he seems to be able to do is calling devs cuck, cocksuckers and such for being on Patreon, without giving a solution at all.
That being said, the point here is:
- it's useless to use those so called "alternatives"( they're not), if your supporters from patreon don't give a shit about them and will never ever consider migrating there;
- as of now, the only site / platform that vaguely resemble Patreon is Subscribestar.adult, but while some creators have created their own pages there, their revenue is not even nearly as high as on patreon.
- most people like to use paypal / won't use anything else other than paypal, and that's why they will Never support something porn related outside of Patreon.
You have to be joking...
We are talking about payment processors and why they ban certain sites due to extreme fetishes. That includes pedo stuff like loli and worse. What? You agree with the banning of some fetishes but not on your own? That the whole world is going to be formed the way you imagined it to be? How the hell are we going to have a discussion like that?
So, basically you agree with everything I say when it's regarding pedo and loli stuff just as long as it doesn't include the fetishes you yourself like as rape and mind control even tho its part of the same brackets?
The whole idea about nitpicking only selected part of the list and ignore the rest is a bit silly. You may have only mentioned those things but the other parts are in it as much as the rest. Because, what do our opinion even mean then? Both rape and pedo stuff is being seen as the same 'bad' things and the reason for the whole debate. Yet you agree with one part and not with the other while they both are part of the same thing? I'm sorry, but it's a bit ridiculous.
By going on a frenzy on this matter and basically take that one word out and neglect my post just proves my point more than anything.
I googled and you know what I found? Paypal banned pornhub. The 10th most visited site in the world... So yeah...
I googled some more. I found that PayPal bans certain sexual materials...So...yeah...
Honestly, the fact that PayPal is very wary about the adult world isn't even a big secret... I don't know why you are debating that they aren't.
This whole "But many sites do fake rape and PayPal loves it" is senseless.
And yes, I know that is not what you said directly. But by saying that many porn companies do fake mind control and fake rape and use PayPal to indicate that is alright.
Even tho you have no evidence of that and I doubt it is 'many' I do believe that there are a few porn sites that use PayPal. But 1. They aren't big sites and 2. they don't focus on the fake rape and fake mind control part. If they did, I've no doubt that PayPal would give the ban hammer.
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The thing is that every post of this kind (and they are tons of them) starts asking devs to switch to another platform. Sometimes people provide alternatives, sometimes just tell devs to leave Patreon right away. Then some devs say "look, maybe I don't fully agree with Patreon's policy but data say right now it is my safest bet to earn some money with my work". No one can argue with that so then we get to the inane debate about censorship, paypal&porn and alt-right banned individuals. Seriously guys, it's a private company making up their own rules, which also happens to be the most succesful one in their market. So no matter how silly or outrageous you think they are, you have to play by their rules or lose the biggest funding option available. They aren't doing anything illegal and, when they do, they are sued by the directly offended. We don't need your brave defense of free speech and sexual fetishes, really. You don't like Patreon, OK, we get it, we might even agree with you, but don't tell devs what they should do or call them names when all evidences clearly state Patreon is the site to be.
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Subscribestar isn't a viable alternative.
Some of us back devs on Patreon because we can use things like Mastercard and PayPal, the things we've been using for online payments for years now.
Subscribestar can't use those as they are the ones that pushed the changes on Patreon and PayPal has blacklisted Subscribestar.
Same for most other alternatives.
A lot of us aren't going to switch our online payment methods just because some people son't like how Patreon deals with things. My financial security means far more to me than peoples feelings.
He's defending them because they are the largest platform and of course he cares about money that's how the world works.
Then you go ahead and post the absolute dumbest shit you could think of "oh, he doesn't agree with me, he must be an SJW" .... I see a lot, a LOT, of dumb shit get posted on here but you topped the lot with that.
Any credibility you could have had, and you had none to start with, was lost with that.
Firstly you complain without offering solutions and no, none of the mentioned "alternatives" are solutions, they have nowhere near the backing or coverage of Patreon so will lose the devs massive amounts of income. Secondly you attempt to insult people disagreeing with you in the most pathetic way possible.
If all the devs switched to alternative platforms then a lot of these devs would abandon their games withing a few weeks as they wouldn't be financially viable. Of course it's about the money, dreams don't pay the bills.
Sharing your opinion is one thing but attempting to belittle someone that disagree's with you is fucking pathetic and shows worthless your own opinions is if that's the only way you can back it up.
I wasted far more time than you are worth typing this out.
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I explain it as easily as I can: pedo stuff, that you introduced in the debate, is ILLEGAL, even the fake depictions, as far as I know (there was a debate, mind you, in my country about DRAGON BALL of all things). Or they are at least borderline and risky.
So, being illegal, I can understand everyone banning it.
The other fetishes might be strange, distasteful to some, but they are not illegal by any means (and, obviously, I'm still talking about the fake depictions).
So there is no reason to ban the other, LEGAL, depiction of fetishes. And indeed, more often than not, they seems to be not banned (I don't know what happened to pornhub particularly, still not the point).
I've read about credit card companies being burnt somehow and then, to return to my original question, I asked:
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Yes, there is one reason, and the most powerful one: they just don't want to be linked with that kind of content. It's legal content, that doesn't mean they're forced to back it up offering their payment services if they don't want to. Public relationships/brand/corporate image thing, probably. Capital investors preferences, most definitely.