Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[Carlo S]

All I see now is all the sites for adults putting on the first pages the games that contains incest as if it was a race for those who have not picked up so far, download the game and enjoy, the publicity about it has increased a lot, so it is the case to ask, and if a company invites all Developers to create an adult-only gaming industry with everything grown-up content, games and stories, that would work 100% in a country that the laws allow. And everyone can have Freedom.

 

[MrBree]

so i'm guessing you got triggered by my "thanks Obama" joke and started to go towards political basis??? (omg you snowflakes need to chillout) now saying the FCC is religious and thats the reason why they so forceful is your opinion not a fact (almost every TV show i watch they take swings at religion every single chance they get)... honestly my problem is that the FCC shouldn't be allowed to regulate ANYTHING on the internet, especially adult content.... (its like a police officer in Texas giving a speeding ticket to some guy in Germany, it makes no sense!!!)

No, I said the FCC does NOT have authority to regulate internet content, and clarified that it in fact was the direct opposite. The Net Neutrality rules ensured that no content was manipulated by anyone. That seemed to have gone way over your head. Its not about 'snowflakes' -- it's about facts. Don't whine when you are called out for ignorance.
Your complaint doesn't make sense simply because it has no basis in reality.

To try and stay on topic here, Patreon likely is under assault by forces which wish to protect their sense of morality. I did mention that both sides are at fault here, but rightly pointed at the group who are more focused on pushing rules to enforce morality than the other.

 

[Cansuuur]

Read through a bit, but just wanted some basic clarification, So if your main page doesn't contain any of the "prohibited" material, and any of said material is behind the patreon paywall, then they are safe? Or does the investigation run deeper. Thanks

 

[muttdoggy]

I have a couple things to say...
1- @Bruni Multimedia is in compliance with Patreon rules. And he's right about what is going on there and what you need to do. Just fix the page, keep the content behind a paywall, and you're fine. You could add a link to your blog on the page and they can get the free versions there.
2- Stop saying that porn content will be gone or destroyed. You don't know that because you don't have a statement on record from Jack Conte stating any intent to do so. The ONLY thing I will trust is a documented and verified statement on record from Jack Conte or his legal team.

From now on, you need to refrain from making statements that are not supported by FACTS. If you don't have direct evidence and quote your sources, stop saying things you cannot back up! Instead, you should focus on how you can help the developers while their pages are suspended.

 

[baneini]

So which games got permanently axed? Seems all the devs I follow still maintain their patreon and its just some nonsense pr move.

 

[jackkane]

patreon is just trying to save face to their stockholders.

 

[OhWee]

I know that this is been mentioned a few times, but as a developer you REALLY should look at having an independent website for your game/production company if you are serious about doing games. Or at least something independent of Patreon. Patreon should be considered as your 'payment service', not your main website.

You never know when some Patreon exec might decide to 'clean that shit up', and take things to the next level. With a separate website/alternate paths of communication, you won't suddenly be facing a 'news blackout' with your fans if something similar to what is going on now happens again...

Plus, if you get your fans in the habit of checking your website regularly, well they will 'know where to go' if there is an outage of some kind on Patreon, etc..

As to how to link to that website, well Patreon is allowing Twitter links, and I'm assuming Discord links, so you can provide the link to your website on your twitter, and of course use Twitter to promote your game as well. Sure, it'll take you a bit more time to promote across three platforms, but if you are trying to 'maximize exposure' to generate more patrons, well more is better.

As for alternative payment services to Patreon, that might be a good topic for a separate 'promoting your adult game' thread. I'm not an expert on that, but if someone else has a few ideas, they can take point on that. Yes, there's the 'Adult Patreon' thread, but that's about starting a new platform, not so much about the existing options.

 

[xןʞ]

I mean yeah even if it is just a blogspot or twitter account to keep people updated without having to worry about randomly getting shut down by patreon.

Like I haven't seen any actual response from KST about his page so it is like, who knows what the actual response status is and such for him.

 

[OhWee]

Just a quick update:
Irredeemable's Patreon page is still showing 'under review' as I type this. All of the other pages that I've been checking out periodically which were placed 'under review' are back up for now.

I'm not seeing any new outages in my limited rounds, but if there are any feel free to post up any change in status r.e. the various pages you know of.

 

[xןʞ]

KST's patreon is still down and I haven't actually seen any updates posted on the web from his side.

I think he honestly might not understand the process for getting in contact with an actual patreon representative or something, since it seems he's an english as second language guy.

Sucks because he's usually super fast with bugfixes for his released versions but it has been days now.

 

[anne O'nymous]

KST's patreon is still down and I haven't actually seen any updates posted on the web from his side.

Apparently, the average shutdown turn around 36 hours, but the page goes up again only after the creator comply to all the requests.
So, the creator need to understand what they want ; and like even native English speakers have had hard time doing it in the few hours of the problem... Then, the creator have to clean his page and in the same time think about an alternate way to distribute his free versions. And only when the page is cleaned and comply to patreon request, it's put up again.

Anyway, KST have an account on

You must be registered to see the links

. Don't know if he still remember about it and/or will be warned in case of private message. But, if someone have an account on their forum, it can be a good idea to try the luck. A little help to understand all this mess is perhaps the only thing he's missing.

 

[Antonia Timmens]

Just a quick update:
Irredeemable's Patreon page is still showing 'under review' as I type this. All of the other pages that I've been checking out periodically which were placed 'under review' are back up for now.

I'm not seeing any new outages in my limited rounds, but if there are any feel free to post up any change in status r.e. the various pages you know of.

Irredeemable posted last friday miscommunication where they wanted him to email when he fixed his page and the person/intern/whatever sent him a I'm going home for the weekend email that evening (Paetron San Francisco time)... Hopefully he is back soon.

 

[iseedeadpeople999]

Stop saying that porn content will be gone or destroyed

Yeah, we are not so lucky yet.

 

[PandaPenguin]

well.... one week in and I have not had any troubles with Patreon so far despite having a banner with tits still up on my public page (no time to change that yet)
I did erase the "rape" and "incest" tags from my themes list and removed any mentioning of those from the game's description tho... and I added an "entirely fictional" to the game's description aswell okerFace:

other than that I did not backtrack all my public posts yet to check if I might got a more explicit post here or there but I already tried to limit more revealing stuff to patron only posts in the past anyway

but ...maybe my campaign is too small to be noteworthy to them (<300$)... who knows

 

[hrmf]

The FCC discussion is (kinda) interesting but it misses the point. This action was not taken by any governmental organization and has nothing to do with American censorship, it was done by Patreon itself, and it's easy to see why. They just raised a bunch of money and I'm quite sure they were just attempting to get out in front of some kind of mass-media expose about the sheer quantity of niche porn that flows through there - like "y'know that site that your podcasts and that funny guy on youtube are always asking you to give money to? It turns out to be RIFE WITH INCEST, OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" Especially when they are flush with cash, they have no reason to keep the niche stuff around, it probably represents quite a small amount of money to them and they are weighing the risks and rewards as any business would do.

 

[reaper6689]

this think of the children stick is way too old now uk isp live virgin media set up restrictions on porn so it filtered why dont patrion set a fliter if you want to see it or not and by defult have it on anyone under 18 accounts insted of this mass reviewing

 

[KnightAngleBoi7]

"Making all NSFW posts be Patreons only" could mean no public versions releases on Patreon, which could hurt many developers, as some of them are wary of adult forums like F95 and ulmf.

 

[OhWee]

Bloody hell!?!

Deem's Patreon page is STILL under review! That's gotta be painful!!!

You must be registered to see the links

 

[lexus33]

A message from patreon about the last incidents and news about them. (About Porn and Incest)

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Bruni Multimedia]

A letter from Jack Conte himself was just emailed:

Hey folks – there have been a few articles, some talk on social, and even an open letter about Patreon’s recent content policy updates. Last week, the Trust and Safety team explained in a blog post the updates we made to the Community Guidelines.

I really, really hope you take the time to read the blog and Community Guidelines for yourself. Most of all, I hope you understand that nothing has changed except our stance on four areas of content: bestiality, incest, sexual depiction of minors, and suggestive sexual violence.

It breaks my heart that folks who contributed to OpenLetterToPatreon.com expressed fear for their pages. Patreon is not that kind of company. I want you to disagree with us. I want you to make your voices heard. I want you to request features and policy changes. I want you to rally the community. That kind of pushing is not only good for the community, but my opinion is that it’s ultimately good for Patreon, too, because it helps our team viscerally feel the voice of our creators. I want Patreon to be the most creator-first company in the world, and that requires you to speak up and tell us what’s on your mind. Patreon will not always be able to do what you want – but at the very least we can make sure we hear you.

As a creator, it’s always bugged me when tech companies and CEOs stay quiet as changes are rolled out in the background and the community feels left in the dark. It really bugs me, because content policy is one of the most important and tough problems that modern tech platforms face. It’s complicated and nuanced and critical to get right. So, I’d like to personally clarify our update – and I realize that this doesn’t mean everyone will agree with it – but again at the very least I don’t want to be silent. So here we go:

• The way that the Trust and Safety team is evaluating content has not changed. Yes, the public guidelines got longer because our creators asked for extra specificity. So in response, we’re sharing more detail with you about how we evaluate content. It does not represent a change to our content policy – it’s added detail to educate the community.
• We did update four (and only four) areas of our actual content policy: incest, bestiality, sexual depiction of minors, and suggestive sexual violence. If you're just reading the headlines, you’ll be under the impression that we’re “cracking down on adult content.” Again, this is not what’s actually happening. We only updated the above four areas of our policy.
• Patreon’s stance on pornography has not changed. We have never allowed pornography or sexual services on Patreon and that stance has been clear in our guidelines since they were first published a few years ago. We used to say we allowed “R-rated” content, but that description was ineffective at clearly explaining our policy to the community. It didn’t give you the specificity you needed to understand what’s allowed, and what isn’t. Our updated Community Guidelines explain in way more detail what we mean when it comes to adult content. I also realize that “pornography” is difficult to define, and “you know it when you see it” is a totally inadequate policy. So we’ve added additional detail to the pornography section of our content policy, and the team will be spending even more time clarifying our guidelines in the future. As of this morning, the guidelines state that we don’t allow “real people engaging in sexual acts, such as masturbation or sexual intercourse on camera.”
• Very few creators are affected by any of these updates. Again, the only actual changes to our policy were around bestiality, incest, sexual depiction of minors, and suggestive sexual violence. Most folks – literally *most* creators by multiple factors of ten – even in the adult communities – have nothing to be concerned about
• Patreon won’t pull the rug out from a creator’s income, even in the case of a policy violation. The team actually built a new system, a suspension tool, over the last few weeks, to avoid sudden removals. Suspension may still seem harsh – I totally understand that perspective – but in the case of a policy violation, it gives the creator a chance to talk with a team member and get their page back up and running. Creators now have time, personal connections with an advocate inside Patreon, and a team of Trust and Safety reps to help them update their pages instead of simply being removed from the platform.
• Every creator is unique, and every content evaluation is unique. We don’t believe in making sweeping generalizations or decisions about creators’ livelihoods. We avoid broad questions like “Is this OK, or is that ok?” A rep will look at each case and its context one-by-one. For anyone who has any questions or concerns about their page, you can speak to a human being (literally, you can always talk to a human) who will work with you to figure out how to update your page so it works with the guidelines.
• The team made these updates now as a follow-up to the Trust and Safety commitments I made this past summer. We’ve spent the past few months operationalizing the commitments, and several updates were ready (we were especially relieved to launch the suspension tool as an alternative to removing pages). We’ve heard a bit of speculation about whether these updates are related to the recent Series C fundraising and that is not true.

This update to our Community Guidelines is part of a broader effort to educate our community and give folks more clarity about what specifically we allow, or what we don’t. Our previous external-facing community guidelines were 795 words. The new guidelines are 2,802 words. Hopefully, the added detail offers you more clarity, makes for less guessing, and gives you the specificity you need.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again – I personally take content policy issues with the utmost seriousness. My personal belief is that online content policy is in its infancy right now – most of tech doesn’t do content policy well. In fact, I think tech on the whole under-invests in content policy. Especially for payments products. We’re talking about a person’s income here – we’re talking about a person’s livelihood. We have to be clear, rigorous, and caring. It’s what’s best for Patreon, it’s what’s best for our creators

It is exactly as I thought it was.