- Dec 18, 2018
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Unreal Engine Personal Study [v0.08] [ArcaneSpoon77]
- Thread starter mydudes67
- Start date
Oh. So there is no chance for:
1) Improved direction = When the player gets stuck, they can press a key to get a hint, such as where to look for the next area?
2) Improved object highlighting = So that the player doesn't walk past critical objects multiple times, while hunting for them?
3) Better movement systems for transversing the areas = An actual run instead of jog, a blink/teleport spell, or maybe flight?
4) No chance of a compass or map = Because a lot of the areas do look quite similar, to avoid getting lost?
5) No chance of an objectives tracker = A nice handy log that lists off the current tasks to complete, such as you just grabbed an eye for the door, so the task is place eye in door's eye socket.
I'm not asking for RPG / 3rd Person Combat type of stuff. I'm talking about enhancements to the game to make the puzzle solving elements better. Rarely are the puzzles obvious with what you are supposed to be doing, even if the puzzle itself is fairly simple.
- Apr 29, 2017
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Most of these complaints/improvements would make this puzzle game into a point and click snore fest. I don't recall having any issues with traversing.
Point and click games are also the ones with the best puzzles and the most interesting ones though, so not sure why its a bad thing to emulate a game type when this game has puzzles too.
- Apr 29, 2017
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Some (maybe most) point and click games either don't have puzzles or the best thing they can do is "Here's a picture, find a specific part of it and click". Which is what this would "emulate". Boring. I'd rather move a person in an virtual environment and look of objects, like in an escape room. A lot more fun.
- Dec 18, 2018
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I don't remember explicit hints, object highlighting, compass, map or objectives tracker in Dark Souls series. Apparently, those are bad games too.
I'm not trying to make comparisons, but layout of my level is so simplistic, it doesn't even have any verticality, I have no idea how one can get lost.
This game is about studying the surroundings and applying some logic. If you don't have patience to learn mechanics of particular puzzle or find objects that stand out, maybe this game wasn't made for you.
Traversing with greater speed, teleport skill or flight are not compatible with the theme of this game.
- Feb 23, 2023
- 8,880
- 4,873
PersonalStudy-0.07.6
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. Downloading issues? Look here.1] Why are you making a comparison to Dark Souls? A better comparison would be to Portal. And Portal didn't require those things because the levels were designed to be extremely linear and it was always obvious what path to take and what tools you had at your disposal and what the overall puzzle was and how to solve it. If you spent more time on making the puzzles more logical and clear on what the next step in it was, then you wouldn't need these things, but I doubt you'll go back and change your puzzles, so this is necessary.
2] Clearly you've never played Wolfenstein 3D. It has no verticality too, but people get lost in it a lot. Even me, who has beaten the game several times will get lost on occasion.
3] I have tons of patience to solve "good" or "well-designed" puzzles. So, if you want ME to learn your esoteric way of doing puzzles, then you need better hints.
=====
But it is clear that you aren't going to do anything, so you are right, this one isn't for me. Good luck with it!
I don't really have a horse on this race, because until the game is more completed I'm not going to try it, I already have enough games that I just WANT to play, but because they are in beta I get frustrated once I reach the end, but...
It's not an universal solution, sometimes a game NEEDS them, and sometimes don't. And sometimes they need them, but the developer did a job so well done that it is faily intuitive without them, or more likely, they are there but the player doesn't notice them, but that's the exception, not the rule. When in doubt, assume you are not the exception.
Some of the BEST games of all times actually use them, but they either integrate them in story (Horizon Zero Dawn), or their hints are subtle enoufh (BotW, TotK) that they aren't disruptive, but help locate what you need that would otherwise be skipped by most players.
My advice? If your players are telling you that they are too hard to find them, look into it and don't try to be Miyazaki. Aonuma is also a perfectly fine model to follow, to the point MIYAZAKI himself followed him with ER. There is a reason why the point and click games now have a button to show the player what can be interacted with, after all (there are very few things as frustrating as looking for the PIXEL the developer decided is the logical thing to interact)
All of those advices are general recommendations from my experience playing through all my life (since Super Mario Bros, so I do have a bit of experience xD), and my intention is for you to check it again and decide if you are really right or no. Of course, too many cooks ruin a dish, so at the end of the day its your call and you shouldn't change everything people tell you to, but I think you should at least check, just in case they are right. If you are right, fantastic, nothing to change at all. If you aren't and pay attention to those recommendations your players are giving to you, that's a bullet you dodged.
So, again, check it out. Or better, ask someone you trust to check it out for you (key words there, "someone you trust"). There is a reason why the developer shouldn't be the beta tester in any game, and it's not just that a beta tester is trained to notice the misteps and bugs of a game, where it works and where it breaks. The developer knows how their game works, and, unconsciously, will accept and do what the game is programmed to do, instead of looking for where it breaks, and will have a biased opinion on how good it feels to play, instead of a more unbiased and general opinion (that's also why there is not just ONE beta tester, it should be a big group with different kind of players, but I understand that's much harder to accomplish for an indie developer : P ).
Then you haven't played Elden Ring, aparently, or at least haven't paid enough attention. Some of those things that actually worked (to a degree, they were still extremely esoteric sometimes and only really worked because of the community behind, not just because of the game itself) in Dark Souls didn't work so well in ER, so they had to add some markers for quests and all that, and I'm still asking for a mission log, so at the very least I can check what quest I have active and what's the last step I did, because the games is too fucking big. A bestiary would be nice too, to check which enemy drops what when I'm farming for an specific resource.
It's not an universal solution, sometimes a game NEEDS them, and sometimes don't. And sometimes they need them, but the developer did a job so well done that it is faily intuitive without them, or more likely, they are there but the player doesn't notice them, but that's the exception, not the rule. When in doubt, assume you are not the exception.
Some of the BEST games of all times actually use them, but they either integrate them in story (Horizon Zero Dawn), or their hints are subtle enoufh (BotW, TotK) that they aren't disruptive, but help locate what you need that would otherwise be skipped by most players.
My advice? If your players are telling you that they are too hard to find them, look into it and don't try to be Miyazaki. Aonuma is also a perfectly fine model to follow, to the point MIYAZAKI himself followed him with ER. There is a reason why the point and click games now have a button to show the player what can be interacted with, after all (there are very few things as frustrating as looking for the PIXEL the developer decided is the logical thing to interact)
Verticality doesn't equal complexity, complexity equals complexity, as obvious as it may sound. A game with verticality may be also extremely lineal (Valkyrie Elysium comes to mind, very linear, but have verticality), and a game with just xz axys may still be extremely complex to navigate (a lot of old games are like this, between lack of map, lack of identificable points, etc). Is your game like that? Again, no clue, just mentioning it, so you can check and decide. When in doubt, though, I recommend to lay on the side of "Make the players time with my game easier", it helps to keep them invested in the game.
On one hand fair, some games require to be... slower. On the other, I advice you to look into if you can make the game a bit easier to traverse without breaking the theme of the game. You'd be surprised how much frustration a bit more of speed while travelling can take away from your game.
All of those advices are general recommendations from my experience playing through all my life (since Super Mario Bros, so I do have a bit of experience xD), and my intention is for you to check it again and decide if you are really right or no. Of course, too many cooks ruin a dish, so at the end of the day its your call and you shouldn't change everything people tell you to, but I think you should at least check, just in case they are right. If you are right, fantastic, nothing to change at all. If you aren't and pay attention to those recommendations your players are giving to you, that's a bullet you dodged.
So, again, check it out. Or better, ask someone you trust to check it out for you (key words there, "someone you trust"). There is a reason why the developer shouldn't be the beta tester in any game, and it's not just that a beta tester is trained to notice the misteps and bugs of a game, where it works and where it breaks. The developer knows how their game works, and, unconsciously, will accept and do what the game is programmed to do, instead of looking for where it breaks, and will have a biased opinion on how good it feels to play, instead of a more unbiased and general opinion (that's also why there is not just ONE beta tester, it should be a big group with different kind of players, but I understand that's much harder to accomplish for an indie developer : P ).
- Dec 18, 2018
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If it's any consolation, I have this thread on watch, so I can try it in the future and to keep myself informed when that happens and how the game develops. I'm interested in the game, but lately I've been frustrated with too many betas to subject myself to another one ^^U
Don't know if this helps
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the links that are older than the 0.06 version dont seem to work anymore. About the OP history you might want to DM a moderator or someone like that
- Dec 18, 2018
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Because there's no builds older than 0.06 on my MEGA
Yeah, i guess that makes sense.
- Nov 14, 2018
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I still have a 0.02 version on my Pc if that might help ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Because there's no builds older than 0.06 on my MEGA
I'll answer to some of the posts later, but as the writer of the guide, some messages are really peculiar :/
- Dec 18, 2018
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I'd really appreciate if you upload 0.02 somewhere. The earliest build I was able to find on the internets is 0.03.
I love this game, It's looks and feels so cool and I can't wait for it to be completed. Congrats already mydudes67
Are you sh****g me right now?
- Nov 13, 2017
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