VN Ren'Py Price of Power [Ch. 22] [Pandaman Games]

[ClockworkGnome]

Different tastes for different folks. I'm the exact opposite.

This debate does kind of underline one of the dangers of that sort of "mood whiplash" style of narrative, though - where the game kind of lies about what it's supposed to be in the beginning before hitting you with the SHOCKING REVELATION once you've been playing for a while. If the genre/mood/tone/aesthetic shift is too severe, you risk hurting your own appeal.

Or to put it a different way, if people who are hoping see the game as a whimsical love story of two childhood friends and their forbidden love slowly finding themselves in a fantasy adventure that finally allows their relationship to blossom start playing the game expecting that (because of how the game is initially presented), they may be turned off by the twist and wind up abandoning the game after. While the sort of people who are way more interested in future-medieval sci-fi and philosophical weirdness, who would appreciate what the game eventually turns into, won't necessarily know it's that sort of game and so they'll never start playing it in the first place to find out.

So the appeal winds up being for the sort of players who fall in the middle of the Venn Diagram of people who find both the initial concept and the eventual reveal appealing, and who adapt to the shift with enthusiasm.

It's not impossible to pull off (I think Horizon: Zero Dawn handled it extremely well), and I'm personally right in the sweet spot as one of the people who sort of appreciate both sides of the coin, but I can definitely understand why some people might be discouraged by it, and how it might limit the overall appeal of the game.

 

[jufot]

So the appeal winds up being for the sort of players who fall in the middle of the Venn Diagram of people who find both the initial concept and the eventual reveal appealing, and who adapt to the shift with enthusiasm.

It's not impossible to pull off (I think Horizon: Zero Dawn handled it extremely well), and I'm personally right in the sweet spot as one of the people who sort of appreciate both sides of the coin, but I can definitely understand why some people might be discouraged by it, and how it might limit the overall appeal of the game.

That's a fair assessment. Especially because HZD was my favourite game of the entire PS4 generation and it was purely because of the story

 

[ArcherB]

Different tastes for different folks I'm the exact opposite. MC and Maria's cute, saccharine, PG-13 Disney Channel romance isn't very enticing to me. Been there, done that and all. The worldbuilding and the overarching mystery is what keeps me invested in this game.

Well... The "saccharine Disney Channel romance" (your words, not mine) is cliché, but well written at least. Characters are attractive (an erotic game with a male MC that is neither a douchebag nor a "beta" with women, and actually could seduce a girl in real life, and a female character that is neither a silly hentai doll nor a feminist that tries to undermine men around, but sincerely loves the MC and try to collaborate with him... that´s totally new in erotic games!!! ) and people can relate with them. Dialogues are not boring, the music is appropriate for the scenes... It´s good for a game of this kind. The part of the science-fiction is cliché too (the dev is not Frank Herbert, I´m afraid), but is extremely boring since the weight of that part of the story is borne by a character (Legacy) with zero appeal. It doesn´t even have a face, talks way too much, has an annoying attitude, and nobody can relate with him... in an erotic game. The main thing in an good erotic game are characters people can relate with, at some level, and get fond of them.

 

[jufot]

[...] the story is borne by a character (Legacy) with zero appeal. It doesn´t even have a face, talks way too much, has an annoying attitude, and nobody can relate with him [...]

I disagree with this bit entirely, but more importantly:

The main thing in an good erotic game are characters people can relate with, at some level, and get fond of them.

This is where we differ the most. There is a difference between "an erotic game" and "a game with eroticism". I see Price of Power as the latter, and hence the eroticism is strictly secondary to the mystery. From that perspective, Legacy is incredibly appealing because he's the only one with answers

 

[mightybored]

I think that the setting itself also lends to Legacy not dominating the landscape. Sure, MC is possessed by a nanomachine AI, but considering even electricity isn't a thing that exists, it can't do much other than talk very slowly to the MC and give some minor stat boosts.

 

[preglovr12]

Well... The "saccharine Disney Channel romance" (your words, not mine) is cliché, but well written at least. Characters are attractive (an erotic game with a male MC that is neither a douchebag nor a "beta" with women, and actually could seduce a girl in real life, and a female character that is neither a silly hentai doll nor a feminist that tries to undermine men around, but sincerely loves the MC and try to collaborate with him... that´s totally new in erotic games!!! ) and people can relate with them. Dialogues are not boring, the music is appropriate for the scenes... It´s good for a game of this kind. The part of the science-fiction is cliché too (the dev is not Frank Herbert, I´m afraid), but is extremely boring since the weight of that part of the story is borne by a character (Legacy) with zero appeal. It doesn´t even have a face, talks way too much, has an annoying attitude, and nobody can relate with him... in an erotic game. The main thing in an good erotic game are characters people can relate with, at some level, and get fond of them.

You seem to think none of that will ever change, that Legacy is going to be a major annoyance for the rest of the game, and that you'll never have any connection to him. I doubt any of that is true, in fact, I know that's not true.

 

[ArcherB]

You seem to think none of that will ever change, that Legacy is going to be a major annoyance for the rest of the game, and that you'll never have any connection to him. I doubt any of that is true, in fact, I know that's not true.

You believe that this is not true, because you want to believe. In my case, I think that, if the dev would know how to make Legacy a relatable, interesting character, would have do that in the last few updates. But maybe, if he discovers that a lot of people don´t actually like Legacy, he will limit his scenes to a bare minimum in the future, which would be good for the game, IMO. Look at the reviews. The first few updates it was all 5 stars. But since Legacy is a major character, there are mixed opinions and comments about "the annoying narrator".

 

[preglovr12]

You believe that this is not true, because you want to believe. In my case, I think that, if the dev would know how to make Legacy a relatable, interesting character, would have do that in the last few updates.

All I can say is just keep playing, Panda would start yelling at me if I said anything more.

 

[Knight_of_the_lance]

You believe that this is not true, because you want to believe. In my case, I think that, if the dev would know how to make Legacy a relatable, interesting character, would have do that in the last few updates. But maybe, if he discovers that a lot of people don´t actually like Legacy, he will limit his scenes to a bare minimum in the future, which would be good for the game, IMO. Look at the reviews. The first few updates it was all 5 stars. But since Legacy is a major character, there are mixed opinions and comments about "the annoying narrator".

Legacy is there as a proper character for only two updates. It seams bigger to you because he was somewhat present since the begining but not as a character but as a narator. His role only recently changed. As a character he has to start somewhere to go elsewhere. His goal is the MC's success fur his own survival. You can consider Legacy as a variation on the demonic spirit possesion trope if you want and maybe to help you envision his role in the story. He has an impact but certainly not as much as Maria or any new character that we will meet when they go back to their Island. Not having a body and only one interlocutor can do that to you especialy if you are kept secret.

 

[ArcherB]

All I can say is just keep playing, Panda would start yelling at me if I said anything more.

I assume you know the dev, are part of the team, or something. OK, I hope you are right, sincerely.

 

[preglovr12]

I assume you know the dev, are part of the team, or something. OK, I hope you are right, sincerely.

You might not like what's going to happen but what little I know about it might fix some of your problems.

 

[Pandaman Games]

I assume you know the dev, are part of the team, or something. OK, I hope you are right, sincerely.

Nah, he just guessed right in a DM and shook me to my core. Anyways:

Ah, more Legacy criticism. Trust me, I'm fully aware that Legacy is the least popular/most polarizing character, and that's entirely fine with me right now. I can't spoil much, but Legacy does have a whole character arc planned. He's supposed to be annoying and intrusive at first, so I'm glad he feels that way. Do you really think a hyperintelligent AI that finds himself trapped in a human body after ~400 years of solitude would instantly become best friends with him? He never agreed to being in MC's body either, FWIW; he just got dumped into a dying body with zero warning and had to figure out what the hell to do. Of course there's going to be some tension there just from the circumstances, forget about the fact that they're from two completely different worlds and backgrounds. Not every character is going to gel with the MC right away, and I think expecting all of them to is a little strange. As Legacy develops (his arc will start in Chapter 8, FYI, though the seeds were already almost entirely planted by Ch 6), you'll see that this is all part of the plan and that Legacy has a lot of character growth and development planned. It's actually kind of cute and wholesome on the whole. You'll see. Heck, if you don't feel differently about Legacy by the end of Chapter 10, then I've probably failed as a writer.

Also, for the record, the game is staying primarily focused on this setting (medieval-esque) and is always going to be a wholesome romantic game. That's just what it is. IDK how many times I have to say it, but I'm making a wholesome game with romantic handholding and (very soon) headpats. Full stop.

 

[UncleFredo]

Do you really think a hyperintelligent AI that finds himself trapped in a human body after ~400 years of solitude would instantly become best friends with him? He never agreed to being in MC's body either, FWIW; he just got dumped into a dying body with zero warning and had to figure out what the hell to do.

I enjoy your VN immensely so please take this as an observation, not a criticism.
I would expect a hyperintelligent AI to recognize that its release after ~400 years of isolation was a damn gift, and, despite the fact that its new carrier is far from its ideal, be grateful. I wold expect it to, intelligently, make the best of its new environment. Which means, seek common ground and mutual respect. Having any hyperintelligence act in any other way really doesn't make much sense.

I only weighed in because you asked, you have a story to tell and a plot to move and if you need this behavior from the AI to accomplish that so be it. Your VN. Your story. I support you telling it as you choose.

 

[underoath27]

Nah, he just guessed right in a DM and shook me to my core. Anyways:

Ah, more Legacy criticism. Trust me, I'm fully aware that Legacy is the least popular/most polarizing character, and that's entirely fine with me right now. I can't spoil much, but Legacy does have a whole character arc planned. He's supposed to be annoying and intrusive at first, so I'm glad he feels that way. Do you really think a hyperintelligent AI that finds himself trapped in a human body after ~400 years of solitude would instantly become best friends with him? He never agreed to being in MC's body either, FWIW; he just got dumped into a dying body with zero warning and had to figure out what the hell to do. Of course there's going to be some tension there just from the circumstances, forget about the fact that they're from two completely different worlds and backgrounds. Not every character is going to gel with the MC right away, and I think expecting all of them to is a little strange. As Legacy develops (his arc will start in Chapter 8, FYI, though the seeds were already almost entirely planted by Ch 6), you'll see that this is all part of the plan and that Legacy has a lot of character growth and development planned. It's actually kind of cute and wholesome on the whole. You'll see. Heck, if you don't feel differently about Legacy by the end of Chapter 10, then I've probably failed as a writer.

Also, for the record, the game is staying primarily focused on this setting (medieval-esque) and is always going to be a wholesome romantic game. That's just what it is. IDK how many times I have to say it, but I'm making a wholesome game with romantic handholding and (very soon) headpats. Full stop.

OH MY! Will we get headpats too??? Damn, don't play like that with my feelings, Pandaman Games !

 

[ClockworkGnome]

I'm making a wholesome game with romantic handholding and (very soon) headpats.

Damn it, it's like your perversion knows no bounds.

 

[Pandaman Games]

I enjoy your VN immensely so please take this as an observation, not a criticism.
I would expect a hyperintelligent AI to recognize that its release after ~400 years of isolation was a damn gift, and, despite the fact that its new carrier is far from its ideal, be grateful. I wold expect it to, intelligently, make the best of its new environment. Which means, seek common ground and mutual respect. Having any hyperintelligence act in any other way really doesn't make much sense.

I only weighed in because you asked, you have a story to tell and a plot to move and if you need this behavior from the AI to accomplish that so be it. Your VN. Your story. I support you telling it as you choose.

Who said Legacy isn't grateful and isn't seeking some sort of common ground? It could be the case that Legacy has a more human-like personality than you think, which comes with associated personality flaws that prevent entirely logical/rational decision making, despite knowing better. Perhaps having such character flaws could lead to character growth and making Legacy a more empathetic character. Maybe this is all part of a plot point that will be explored in the upcoming chapters. Who knows?

 

[UncleFredo]

Who said Legacy isn't grateful and isn't seeking some sort of common ground? It could be the case that Legacy has a more human-like personality than you think, which comes with associated personality flaws that prevent entirely logical/rational decision making, despite knowing better. Perhaps having such character flaws could lead to character growth and making Legacy a more empathetic character. Maybe this is all part of a plot point that will be explored in the upcoming chapters. Who knows?

Well YOU know... But I take your point. I'll be waiting to find out.

 

[jufot]

From

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:

Chapter 7 Release

Happy November! I'm very excited to release Chapter 7: Secrets! Windows/Linux and Mac OS X can be found below. Android version is uploading now and the post will be updated as soon as it's done. Enjoy!

Dev Notes:
There are headpats now. Enough said. Enjoy.

Changelog:
- Chapter 7 content, lots of animations

 

[Pandaman Games]

From

You must be registered to see the links

:

Chapter 7 Release

Happy November! I'm very excited to release Chapter 7: Secrets! Windows/Linux and Mac OS X can be found below. Android version is uploading now and the post will be updated as soon as it's done. Enjoy!

Dev Notes:
There are headpats now. Enough said. Enjoy.

Changelog:
- Chapter 7 content, lots of animations

Damn, beat me to it Jufot.

 

[jufot]

OK, I'm done with the update. Let's start with the good

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And also, their first time "in bed" went significantly better than I expected. Perks of not being adolescents, I suppose

Let's not forget render of the year here

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Unfortunately, for the first time ever, this chapter had something I really, really didn't like.

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