VN Ren'Py Price of Power [Ch. 22] [Pandaman Games]

[Raife]

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Chapter 7 Release

Happy November! I'm very excited to release Chapter 7: Secrets! Windows/Linux and Mac OS X can be found below. Android version is uploading now and the post will be updated as soon as it's done. Enjoy!

Dev Notes:
There are headpats now. Enough said. Enjoy.

Changelog:
- Chapter 7 content, lots of animations

Mirabile dictu!

 

[Raife]

Unfortunately, for the first time ever, this chapter had something I really, really didn't like.

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Not for the first time... I agree. I would much rather have seen them negotiate the awkward position of a lower-status man uniting with a higher-status woman in a highly male-dominated society. That's really tricky... the other way around is much more typical... and therefore, far less interesting. (Catherine Cookson wrote a novel about exactly this sticky situation called _The Moth_ -- it was set in 1914, as I remember.)

But, I'm sort of a sucker for romance, so that annoyance was overshadowed for me by the episode in the barn (it's always a barn...).

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So... I agree, the narrative ran into problems in this episode... but let's see if the Dev can right the ship. I haven't given up on him yet.

 

[jufot]

I would much rather have seen them negotiate the awkward position of a lower-status man uniting with a higher-status woman in a highly male-dominated society.

A good example of this is the relationship between Lord Respen and Empress Maeryn in Oathbreaker. She holds the title, and his status comes solely from their marriage. By marrying a commoner, she breaks court tradition and causes herself significant trouble. Despite all that, Respen is his own man, he doesn't hesitate to disagree with her. He still has agency. Maybe that could be a source of inspiration

Here's a pic of them:

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[Pandaman Games]

OK, I'm done with the update. Let's start with the good

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And also, their first time "in bed" went significantly better than I expected. Perks of not being adolescents, I suppose

Let's not forget render of the year here

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Unfortunately, for the first time ever, this chapter had something I really, really didn't like.

Spoiler

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Heh, you're making me want to write and release Chapter 8 ASAP just so you can see what I have planned. Trust me, you have no idea where this is going.

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Fun fact, I typed the above out (and deleted it) several times because I included too many spoilers. This sequence of chapters is just so much fun to write and I can't wait for you all to see what happens next.

 

[jufot]

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Well, you have more than earned some leeway here, so I'll definitely wait and see

Still, I feel Michael being a noble (and hierarchically superior to Maria) and Maria being a-OK with that can't be made right with further developments (barring a retcon). It feels... icky.

But again, if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt it's you, so...

 

[Pandaman Games]

Well, you have more than earned some leeway here, so I'll definitely wait and see

Still, I feel Michael being a noble (and hierarchically superior to Maria) and Maria being a-OK with that can't be made right with further developments (barring a retcon). It feels... icky.

But again, if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt it's you, so...

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[Knight_of_the_lance]

thanks for putting everything in spoiler, it is realy appreciated. I'll wait for the public releasse to comme back and look at this small discution. now I am more excited to see what got ao much reactions.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

OK, I'm done with the update. Let's start with the good

Spoiler

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And also, their first time "in bed" went significantly better than I expected. Perks of not being adolescents, I suppose

Let's not forget render of the year here

Spoiler

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Unfortunately, for the first time ever, this chapter had something I really, really didn't like.

Spoiler

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One would argue that this revelation is a trope that is being explored. This is not necessarily bad thing, almost all stories has them, if not all.
A trope can turn into a cliché or not, it depends on how is being told.
Given that this narrative element is being presented at this point in the story, I suspect the latter, therefore not a cliché, yet. It will depend how the story will conclude and how these elements will be portrayed.
Currently there's a lot of room for plot twists and subversions (let's hope subversions NOT in the Game of Thrones style ).

 

[Pandaman Games]

One would argue that this revelation is a trope that is being explored. This is not necessarily bad thing, almost all stories has them, if not all.
A trope can turn into a cliché or not, it depends on how is being told.
Given that this narrative element is being presented at this point in the story, I suspect the latter, therefore not a cliché, yet. It will depend how the story will conclude and how these elements will be portrayed.
Currently there's a lot of room for plot twists and subversions (let's hope subversions NOT in the Game of Thrones style ).

Spoiler: huehuehue

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[Tushita]

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I just hope you don´t introduce the postmodern clichés of feminism ("strong female character", "empowered", "struggle of the sexes"...). That kind of characters (the only ones that writers write now in movies and TV shows) are unbearable in any story, and specially absurd in a story set in medieval times, when the role of women, that most of them accepted gladly, was being wives and mothers because child mortality was so high (and was high until the discovery of penicillin) that most of them had to spend their fertile years chaining pregnancies in order of having at least one or two children that survive their childhood.

Right now is great to see a female character that loves the MC and don´t undermines or see him as a hidden enemy because he is a man. Please, don´t change that.

 

[Pandaman Games]

I just hope you don´t introduce the postmodern clichés of feminism ("strong female character", "empowered", "struggle of the sexes"...). That kind of characters (the only ones that writers write now in movies and TV shows) are unbearable in any story, and specially absurd in a story set in medieval times, when the role of women, that most of them accepted gladly, was being wives and mothers because child mortality was so high (and was high until the discovery of penicillin) that most of them had to spend their fertile years chaining pregnancies in order of having at least one or two children that survive their childhood.

Right now is great to see a female character that loves the MC and don´t undermines or see him as a hidden enemy because he is a man. Please, don´t change that.

....
Bruh, have you played this game? Maria is absolutely a strong female character and specifically struggles with the expectations placed on her because she's a noblewoman. While she does love Michael and is fiercely loyal to him and her allies, she's very much her own person. If you expect Maria to be a housewife/baby factory, you have either not played the game at all, horribly misunderstood everything about Maria, and/or are projecting what you want to see on a game that is very much not doing that.

 

[Tushita]

....
Bruh, have you played this game? Maria is absolutely a strong female character and specifically struggles with the expectations placed on her because she's a noblewoman. While she does love Michael and is fiercely loyal to him and her allies, she's very much her own person. If you expect Maria to be a housewife/baby factory, you have either not played the game at all, horribly misunderstood everything about Maria, and/or are projecting what you want to see on a game that is very much not doing that.

I have played it, and I like it. And the main reason I like it is because Maria is not a "strong female character", at all. Don´t insult her, even if you are his author, please.

A "strong female character" is a female character that copies the stereotypes of the "strong male character" of the cinema of the 80´s (that became a joke in the 90´s) and put them into a female character in the 2020´s because that´s feminism in modern writing: a woman that behaves like a stereotyped rude "alpha" man. So far, Maria doesn´t fight against monsters or men with her bare fists because she knows they are stronger and can´t win. Maria is not rude with men. Like other user says in a previous comment, she don´t try to undermine and set a dominance over men. She don´t do with men what a stereotyped alpha male of an old bad western or a 80´s action movie would do with other men. She don´t try to always show that she doesn´t need men because she´s "independent" and "empowered", and she´s better than men. She´s not offended if receives the help of a man and says things like "I´m a big girl, I can take care of myself". She supports and helps the MC, and accepts his support and his help.

There are already THOUSANDS of "strong female characters" in comics, games, novels, TV shows and movies, that are actually stereotyped rude alpha males with the appearance of women. So, please, don´t spoil Maria with postmodern feminist stereotypes and clichés. She´s a great character so far.

And, yes, if she´s living in a medieval world, his mindset should be medieval. And that´s not incompatible with "being her own person". I´m not saying that the game should turn into a "pregnancy simulator". That would be a boring game. It´s OK that Maria is an adventurer and explorer, even if that´s not exactly a role for a woman in a medieval world, because the story needs it. I´m saying that a noblewoman in medieval times would understand that she would need a husband in order of inherit a title because, when the adventure and exploration times ends, her main social role will be to be a wife and mother and continue the dynasty, and would not consider herself as a "subservient to a man in her own house", like other user says. Specially not one that she loves so much. The problem would be to find the correct man (and apparently she has found him already) not that the man would have access to her status and title and she would be "the wife of".

 

[Tushita]

Dude you do understand that you are trying to explain what Maria should be like to the guy who wrote her character? Pretty sure Pandaman would be aware of what Maria is or is supposed to be considering he wrote her character.

Dude, I´m explaining the concept of "strong female character" and explaining why is a terrible way of writing a female character, since it seems that there is people asking for that kind of writing for Maria. And I´m saying that if you set a game in a medieval world, the characters should have a medieval mindset if you want the story and the character are coherent. But, obviously, Pandaman can write the characters and the story he wants, the same way people can play and support the game if they think it´s a good game, or not.

 

[Pandaman Games]

I'm not turning Maria into some caricature based on bizarre notions of what feminism means/should be. I'm just writing her how she is, IDK how else to explain it. She does has strong opinions on what her place in the world should be (that don't really line up with medieval standards), and that's going to come out loud and clear in Chapters 8 and 9. You'll see.

 

[Tushita]

I'm not turning Maria into some caricature based on bizarre notions of what feminism means/should be. I'm just writing her how she is, IDK how else to explain it. She does has strong opinions on what her place in the world should be (that don't really line up with medieval standards), and that's going to come out loud and clear in Chapters 8 and 9. You'll see.

I´m soooo feed up of obnoxious "strong female characters" everywhere, from Hollywood movies with dozens of millions of budget or AAA games, to little games of patreon made by a guy in his house, that I fear at the first hint. I have seen too many female characters ruined by postmodern stereotypes. And I really like Maria.

 

[Knight_of_the_lance]

medieval times is a large periode of time, depending on the definition you use it can be up to from 500 to 1500. Men and women's role changed and evolved alot during that time periode with out even talking about the fact that it varied between region. I woulkd not pronouce myself about familly sizes thow I don't know enough about that specific subject. but one thing I can say is that I am prety sure that in many housses the wife was often the one wearing the proverbial pants. You don't need a fertile imagination either to comme up with such a conclusion. Even when the Norse would go on a Viking who do you think managed the house and possesions all the while?

 

[jufot]

I´m soooo feed up of obnoxious "strong female characters" everywhere

Sounds like you need some strong female influence in your life

 

[MoarDakka123]

Sounds like you need some strong female influence in your life

To be fair, they did specify obnoxious ones, no clue which ones what might mean, though.

 

[Tushita]

but one thing I can say is that I am prety sure that in many housses the wife was often the one wearing the proverbial pants. You don't need a fertile imagination either to comme up with such a conclusion. Even when the Norse would go on a Viking who do you think managed the house and possesions all the while?

I agree. Nothing of that contradicts my point.

 

[Tushita]

Sounds like you need some strong female influence in your life

Sounds like I have made comments about an imaginary character and not about other users' lives or needs, users that I don´t even know, because I´m not a rude person and because I don´t want that other users say to me, with good reason, that what they need or don´t need is none of my business. It´s basic civility, but apparently you don´t know that.