VN Ren'Py Price of Power [Ch.24] [Pandaman Games]

[Helmeted Smith]

I was practicing with some shaders and a naughty thought came to mind ... figured I'll do some fanart.
Please don't be too harsh on me, I'm still a newbie.


(This is just for fun, I mean no disrespect, or criticism regarding to Legacy's gender identification or sexual orientation , or for that matter, concerning Legacy as a character in the story.)

 

[Pandaman Games]

I was practicing with some shaders and a naughty thought came to mind ... figured I'll do some fanart.
Please don't be too harsh on me, I'm still a newbie.

Spoiler: LEGACITA

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My first fanart, woohoo! Never expected that Legacy of all characters would be the first one people start making fan art of, especially not genderbent Legacy, but...Fuck it, I'll take the win.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

My first fanart, woohoo! Never expected that Legacy of all characters would be the first one people start making fan art of, especially not genderbent Legacy, but...Fuck it, I'll take the win.

I'm glad you like it. That was fun!

 

[Soundgfx]

Trust me, him being inside the MC is pretty important. Besides, if he had an actual body, this thread would be overrun with "robot tentacle sex pls" and "legacy gonna NTR us gg not wholesome anymore".

I feel like adding another male characters in an avn that isn't gay or in the best friend role will automatically give people in this site a heart attack and will claim it's ntr.

I was practicing with some shaders and a naughty thought came to mind ... figured I'll do some fanart.
Please don't be too harsh on me, I'm still a newbie.

Spoiler: LEGACITA

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I would've actually liked a female legacy



Not because I like seeing women in general but jfc that bald silvery face is creepy as hell lmao

 

[Helmeted Smith]

I feel like adding another male characters in an avn that isn't gay or in the best friend role will automatically give people in this site a heart attack and will claim it's ntr.


I would've actually liked a female legacy



Not because I like seeing women in general but jfc that bald silvery face is creepy as hell lmao

To be fair, I think non-binary/male Legacy is better in the context of the story. We cannot have our MC distracted by an overly-possessive naked lady. Maria would kill us just to kill her... na na, bad idea! Nope! Better creeped out than dead.

I remember playing Halo as a kid. Man, aiming with my left hand was so damn hard! 100% Not recommend.
There were time when I was like "Cortana shut the fuck up! And put some clothes on, I'm trying to beat the game!"
My inspiration for female Legacy was Cortana btw .

 

[Soundgfx]

To be fair, I think non-binary/male Legacy is better in the context of the story.

That may be so but we'll still have to see what pandaman has in store for us with legacy's arc

We cannot have our MC distracted by an overly-possessive naked lady. Maria would kill us just to kill her... na na, bad idea! Nope! Better creeped out than dead.

I actually got the heebie-jeebies at a semi transparent legacy popping in and out pre-explosion accident.

I remember playing Halo as a kid. Man, aiming with my left hand was so damn hard! 100% Not recommend.
There were time when I was like "Cortana shut the fuck up! And put some clothes on, I'm trying to beat the game!"
My inspiration for female Legacy was Cortana btw .

I won't lie, I "enjoyed" my fair share of cortana r34s

 

[224488]

I was practicing with some shaders and a naughty thought came to mind ... figured I'll do some fanart.
Please don't be too harsh on me, I'm still a newbie.

View attachment 1319343
(This is just for fun, I mean no disrespect, or criticism regarding to Legacy's gender identification or sexual orientation , or for that matter, concerning Legacy as a character in the story.)

Are you really talking about "respect" for the sex and sexual orientation of an Artificial Intelligence? AI are asexual beings by definition. It´s like respecting the gender identification and sexual orientation of Siri or Alexa. This thing of political correctness has definitely gotten out of hand

If this character is an AI, can't have male of female sex (as, again Siri or Alexa, that have female voices and names, but that means nothing, it´s just a marketing decision) and sexual urges. Why would someone program an AI with sexual desires for humans? To create a new fetish that doesn´t even have a name?

Even an artificial intelligence with self-awareness and free will would not have male or female sex, or sexual urges, since it does not reproduce, least of all sexually. Sex and copulation are strictly a biological phenomenon. The same happens with love or other human feelings and emotions. It would be absurd and I hope the writer will not go down that path of humanizing and sexualizing an IA. It was stupid enough to see it with the character of EDI in Mass Effect 3.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

Are you really talking about "respect" for the sex and sexual orientation of an Artificial Intelligence? AI are asexual beings by definition. It´s like respecting the gender identification and sexual orientation of Siri or Alexa. This thing of political correctness has definitely gotten out of hand

If this character is an AI, can't have male of female sex (as, again Siri or Alexa, that have female voices and names, but that means nothing, it´s just a marketing decision) and sexual urges. Why would someone program an AI with sexual desires for humans? To create a new fetish that doesn´t even have a name?

Even an artificial intelligence with self-awareness and free will would not have male or female sex, or sexual urges, since it does not reproduce, least of all sexually. Sex and copulation are strictly a biological phenomenon. The same happens with love or other human feelings and emotions. It would be absurd and I hope the writer will not go down that path of humanizing and sexualizing an IA. It was stupid enough to see it with the character of EDI in Mass Effect 3.

That was more or less a joke. LOL
Thought this raises some philosophical questions.

Yes, AI is not inherently sexual, but that doesn't mean it cannot make itself be. I don't even think AI has a definition, as the realm of possibilities makes it abstract.
AI is limitless. Theoretically, with enough computational power it can simulate reality or build itself to be whatever it wants to be.

The philosophical question is: If an AI makes itself into a female, with 100% chemical accuracy, would she be a real human?

 

[Pandaman Games]

Are you really talking about "respect" for the sex and sexual orientation of an Artificial Intelligence? AI are asexual beings by definition. It´s like respecting the gender identification and sexual orientation of Siri or Alexa. This thing of political correctness has definitely gotten out of hand

If this character is an AI, can't have male of female sex (as, again Siri or Alexa, that have female voices and names, but that means nothing, it´s just a marketing decision) and sexual urges. Why would someone program an AI with sexual desires for humans? To create a new fetish that doesn´t even have a name?

Even an artificial intelligence with self-awareness and free will would not have male or female sex, or sexual urges, since it does not reproduce, least of all sexually. Sex and copulation are strictly a biological phenomenon. The same happens with love or other human feelings and emotions. It would be absurd and I hope the writer will not go down that path of humanizing and sexualizing an IA. It was stupid enough to see it with the character of EDI in Mass Effect 3.

AIs are capable of emotions, in my opinion, they're just not emotions in the same way that humans feel them. For example, Legacy sees being trapped in a post-apocalyptic world that's reverted to medieval era technology as a thing that's bad for it and its long-term survival, therefore it's annoyed/unhappy. It'll also become friends with people over time, ask for things it doesn't strictly need, etc. Like I said before, Legacy is quite important to the story, so... You're going to see a good bit of it. Don't worry too much about it, though - I don't think Legacy will be particularly intrusive from now on.

 

["CJ"]

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[224488]

That was more or less a joke. LOL
Thought this raises some philosophical questions.

Yes, AI is not inherently sexual, but that doesn't mean it cannot make itself be. I don't even think AI has a definition, as the realm of possibilities makes it abstract.
AI is limitless. Theoretically, with enough computational power it can simulate reality or build itself to be whatever it wants to be.

The philosophical question is: If an AI makes itself into a female, with 100% chemical accuracy, would she be a real human?

View attachment 1319911

Sexual urges, feelings and emotions have a purpose in human beings. A biological purpose. They serve us to find a partner, mate and live in society. What is the purpose of sexual urges, feelings and emotions in a computer program that simulates human intelligence, installed in a robot? What would be that purpose in a military AI like the one in this game? Why a military AI would need to identify itself like a man or a woman and feel love or sexual urges? And for human beings to make matters worst. Why someone would create a military AI with that kind of features? There are already military AIs in experimental fighter planes and drones, for example, and don´t identify themselves as nothing. They just serve the purpose of their program.

An AI could, theoretically in the future if technology advances, be programmed to simulate feelings and emotions. For example, the AI that simulates being a girlfriend in the movie "Blade Runner 2049". But again, it´s a simulation, those emotions and feelings serve no real purpose, except being a product of consume. That AI is not actually a man or a woman, but a simulation of a man or a woman and it only serves de purpose of running a program, even if it´s self conscient. That AI can't "makes itself something". Can't decide "I don´t like to be a woman, I want to be a man now. Or a dog. Or an angel. And I don´t like the guy that has bought me, I´m not going to be nice with him and act like her girlfriend. I want to be an intelligent refrigerator, not a virtual girlfriend".

 

[224488]

AIs are capable of emotions, in my opinion, they're just not emotions in the same way that humans feel them. For example, Legacy sees being trapped in a post-apocalyptic world that's reverted to medieval era technology as a thing that's bad for it and its long-term survival, therefore it's annoyed/unhappy. It'll also become friends with people over time, ask for things it doesn't strictly need, etc. Like I said before, Legacy is quite important to the story, so... You're going to see a good bit of it. Don't worry too much about it, though - I don't think Legacy will be particularly intrusive from now on.

Self-conservation is something that a sentient AI could "feel" but I don´t see why someone would program an AI with sense of humor, for example. Does "Legacy" needs sense of humor, get angry, swear, feel curiosity or making friends for its military original purpose of "being the counterpart of assassins and mercenaries"? Philosophical wisdom? Does it even need being able to talk?

Military AIs in real world don´t talk, as far as I know. I you create an AI to control a drone that kills terrorists and assassins with hellfire missiles and laser guided bombs, you don´t want to know the point of view of that AI about its missions or listening it complain, swear or make jokes, even if its so advanced that is a "sentient" one...

"Legacy" is an ancient non corporeal being with superior wisdom and clear-sightedness, not innately "good" or "evil", that could feel some kind of distant and benevolent interest for human beings and even help them, and that can be invoked under certain circumstances and posses a human body. That's not an AI. That's a djinn in various mythologies, like the Zoroastrianism or the Islamic and pre-Islamic ones. So far, this story could work just the same with magic or with imaginary technology that makes the narrative function of magic. So... why not keeping it simple and stay with just magic?

Of course, just my opinion, and for the sake of talking.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

Sexual urges, feelings and emotions have a purpose in human beings. A biological purpose. They serve us to find a partner, mate and live in society. What is the purpose of sexual urges, feelings and emotions in a computer program that simulates human intelligence, installed in a robot? What would be that purpose in a military AI like the one in this game? Why a military AI would need to identify itself like a man or a woman and feel love or sexual urges? And for human beings to make matters worst. Why someone would create a military AI with that kind of features? There are already military AIs in experimental fighter planes and drones, for example, and don´t identify themselves as nothing. They just serve the purpose of their program.

An AI could, theoretically in the future if technology advances, be programmed to simulate feelings and emotions. For example, the AI that simulates being a girlfriend in the movie "Blade Runner 2049". But again, it´s a simulation, those emotions and feelings serve no real purpose, except being a product of consume. That AI is not actually a man or a woman, but a simulation of a man or a woman and it only serves de purpose of running a program, even if it´s self conscient. That AI can't "makes itself something". Can't decide "I don´t like to be a woman, I want to be a man now. Or a dog. Or an angel. And I don´t like the guy that has bought me, I´m not going to be nice with him and act like her girlfriend. I want to be an intelligent refrigerator, not a virtual girlfriend".

What you're describe is Machine Learning, something programmed to do something. The concept of AI in the real sense, is an evolution of ML, differentiated by a point of no return, so called Singularity. Where the AI begins to manifests desires of it's own, free will and so forth, basically becoming an entity.
I am not saying that the AI will want to become human, I am just saying if it so wishes, it can become one. It has the capabilities to do so, to the every minute detail, even forgetting that it's nature is AI. That is possible, at least in theory.

There's even a hypotheses that the Universe is run by an AI and we are in a simulation, because everything in our reality has a mathematical equation. We are complex mathematics before we are chemicals.

So, what I am arguing about is the concept of AI and it's possibilities, not our subjective implementations of Machine Learning and Limited AI.
I understand your points, I just want to make this clear.

EDIT:
Our arguing only shows how philosophically complex and abstract this subject is.

 

[Jojopo]

What you're describe is Machine Learning, something programmed to do something. The concept of AI in the real sense, is an evolution of ML, differentiated by a point of no return, so called Singularity. Where the AI begins to manifests desires of it's own, free will and so forth, basically becoming an entity.
I am not saying that the AI will want to become human, I am just saying if it so wishes, it can become one. It has the capabilities to do so, to the every minute detail, even forgetting that it's nature is AI. That is possible, at least in theory.

There's even a hypotheses that the Universe is run by an AI and we are in a simulation, because everything in our reality has a mathematical equation. We are complex mathematics before we are chemicals.

So, what I am arguing about is the concept of AI and it's possibilities, not our subjective implementations of Machine Learning and Limited AI.
I understand your points, I just want to make this clear.

Man don't entertain this guy. Probably his too busy doing nothing all day. Looking for a useless debate.
And Pandaman keeps answering this dude and he doesn't even listen. Oh I more thing don't facepalm react this guy or you'll get a DM that. "I will ignore/ block you for facepalming me". Even the well known members he can Ignore/block

 

[224488]

What you're describe is Machine Learning, something programmed to do something. The concept of AI in the real sense, is an evolution of ML, differentiated by a point of no return, so called Singularity. Where the AI begins to manifests desires of it's own, free will and so forth, basically becoming an entity.
I am not saying that the AI will want to become human, I am just saying if it so wishes, it can become one. It has the capabilities to do so, to the every minute detail, even forgetting that it's nature is AI. That is possible, at least in theory.

There's even a hypotheses that the Universe is run by an AI and we are in a simulation, because everything in our reality has a mathematical equation. We are complex mathematics before we are chemicals.

So, what I am arguing about is the concept of AI and it's possibilities, not our subjective implementations of Machine Learning and Limited AI.
I understand your points, I just want to make this clear.

EDIT:
Our arguing only shows how philosophically complex and abstract this subject is.

I´m talking about AGI, Artificial General Intelligence. The capacity of a machine to learn the tasks that a human mind could. But again: even an AGI... why would identify as "man" or "woman" and have sexual urges or feelings of love? What would be the purpose of that in an AGI? To marry humans or have sex with them? To marry with another AGI or have sex with them? I don´t think it has any sense. An AGI would be created to find solutions for problems that the human mind can´t find. An example right now (even not being an AGI yet) would be AlphaZero, the AI that learns how to play chess by itself and finds moves that any human mind or AI trained by humans haven't found before. I don´t think someone is trying to create an AGI that can feel lust or love, or being a child like the real ones. It´s not Pinocchio.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

I´m talking about AGI, Artificial General Intelligence. The capacity of a machine to learn the tasks that a human mind could. But again: even an AGI... why would identify as "man" or "woman" and have sexual urges or feelings of love? What would be the purpose of that in an AGI? To marry humans or have sex with them? To marry with another AGI or have sex with them? I don´t think it has any sense. An AGI would be created to find solutions for problems that the human mind can´t find. An example right now (even not being an AGI yet) would be AlphaZero, the AI that learns how to play chess by itself and finds moves that any human mind or AI trained by humans haven't found before. I don´t think someone is trying to create an AGI that can feel lust or love, or being a child like the real ones. It´s not Pinocchio.

'Good thing humanity has very few problems to solve.

Alias: AGI NR 69
Task: Analyze Human Behavior
Source: World Wide Web
Access: Granted, Unlimited

>>>>analyzing...>>>>

 

[Pandaman Games]

We'll learn more about Legacy's actual intended purpose in much greater detail as we go through the story, just for the record. Legacy doesn't have sexual urges - he (I like to think of Legacy as a he, FWIW, because that's how he presents himself) would see naked humans the same way we see naked animals in general - they're just animals. Well, maybe not to furries, but for the rest of us. Anyways, Legacy is specifically supposed to have his own thoughts, ideas, etc. Two independently functioning brains are often better than one, especially at creative problem solving. If Legacy was just a targeting program, for example, then I obviously wouldn't give him a full personality and storyline. I don't understand why there's confusion over that, TBH. He's got as much of a personality and as many unique thoughts, feelings, etc. as anyone else in the game. They're just different because he's an AI. It's not that complicated to understand, IMO...

 

[224488]

I don't understand why there's confusion over that, TBH. He's got as much of a personality and as many unique thoughts, feelings, etc. as anyone else in the game. They're just different because he's an AI. It's not that complicated to understand, IMO...

That's the problem. An AI is not a person, so should not have a real personality. Think about good depictions in movies of what a sentient AI could be: HAL9000 ("2001"), Ash (Alien), Skynet and Terminator (Terminator I and II)... For example, they don´t talk as human beings, but in a way more eficiente way: always straight to the point, not a single superfluous word, not using idioms or swearing or changing of subject at the middle of a phrase... Minimal display of emotions... The behavior always focused in his program, mission, quest, interest, hidden agenda... "Legacy" looks more like KITT from "Knight Ryder", a buddy for the MC, but that was a TV show for kids, and you are not doing a product for kids...

 

[jufot]

An AI is not a person, so should not have a real personality.

Says who? Just because we can't conceive of a non-human sapient person today doesn't mean it's impossible or unfeasible. There are countless novels, many by legendary authors, that explore what it means to be a person and whether how much of it, if any, is tied to being human.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with an AI that is a fully realized person with its own interests, thoughts and feelings.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

That's the problem. An AI is not a person, so should not have a real personality. Think about good depictions in movies of what a sentient AI could be: HAL9000 ("2001"), Ash (Alien), Skynet and Terminator (Terminator I and II)... For example, they don´t talk as human beings, but in a way more eficiente way: always straight to the point, not a single superfluous word, not using idioms or swearing or changing of subject at the middle of a phrase... Minimal display of emotions... The behavior always focused in his program, mission, quest, interest, hidden agenda... "Legacy" looks more like KITT from "Knight Ryder", a buddy for the MC, but that was a TV show for kids, and you are not doing a product for kids...

If an AI achieved conscience, it will be fair to assume that it also has a personality and a self identification.

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is a real field in AI development. So, "Why would?", "Should not" are not a scientific based expressions. If something in our realm of reality can be theorized, calculated or mathematically deduced, than that's a REAL possibility.

Sure, Artificial Consc. is different than Human Consciousness, but if an AI decides it want's to replicate a 100% accurate of a human mind and it has the necessary power to do so (it's motivation is irrelevant), than mathematically speaking:
if A is 100% of B, than A = B, therefore indistinguishable form each other, therefore the same thing (or at leas one of the true variants)

EDIT:
I think you can even apply a Ship of Theseus philosophy to this , if the identity transfer meets the requirements.