VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.07a+p] [Zorlun]

[clowns234]

It's not that Marc is no longer a dom, he was learning to be one, you have to take that has a stumble and a lesson for when it'll take the dom road again (depending on the player choice, as usual).

As I see it:
Myriam, on at least one path, liked that Anthony treated her like a slut in the bedroom. She only threw him out because he was a douche outside the bedroom.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

As I see it:
Myriam, on at least one path, liked that Anthony treated her like a slut in the bedroom. She only threw him out because he was a douche outside the bedroom.

Anthony was pretty much a douche everywhere. He was only really interested in doing what he wanted. His wife's needs were a poor second. Myriam enjoyed some of the things that happened between them in the bedroom, but he wasn't doing them to please her. It was always to satisfy his own desires. And if Myriam ended up getting any pleasure from that, it was incidental as far as Anthony was concerned.

The thing is, Myriam now realises that everything she once thought about Anthony was a delusion. He was never the person she believed him to be. He was a scumbag through and through.

 

[clowns234]

Anthony was pretty much a douche everywhere. He was only really interested in doing what he wanted. His wife's needs were a poor second. Myriam enjoyed some of the things that happened between them in the bedroom, but he wasn't doing them to please her. It was always to satisfy his own desires. And if Myriam ended up getting any pleasure from that, it was incidental as far as Anthony was concerned.

The thing is, Myriam now realises that everything she once thought about Anthony was a delusion. He was never the person she believed him to be. He was a scumbag through and through.

Yes, Anthony was a scumbag, but it seems he 'trained' Myriam to be a submissive. Or, maybe the submissive streak was there all along. She would have left him years earlier had it not been?

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Yes, Anthony was a scumbag, but it seems he 'trained' Myriam to be a submissive. Or, maybe the submissive streak was there all along. She would have left him years earlier had it not been?

I think Myriam is naturally submissive. Anthony just made her believe that being submissive meant she had to do whatever he wanted, and that her own needs were unimportant. In a genuine sub/dom relationship, the needs of both partners are equally important, and not just those of the one who is the Dom. She didn't stay with him because she was submissive, she stayed because he bullied her into accepting that him acting like a douchebag, was something she had to tolerate to be a good wife.

 

[clowns234]

I think Myriam is naturally submissive. Anthony just made her believe that being submissive meant she had to do whatever he wanted, and that her own needs were unimportant. In a genuine sub/dom relationship, the needs of both partners are equally important, and not just those of the one who is the Dom. She didn't stay with him because she was submissive, she stayed because he bullied her into accepting that him acting like a douchebag, was something she had to tolerate to be a good wife.

I think we agree on more than we disagree.

 

[Ginji]

so is the son back now?

 

[JaxMan]

Up until now, Marc has believed that he was in control, that he could persuade Myriam to do whatever he wanted. He just wasn't aware that she was only letting him believe that, because she was scared it would hurt him to discover the truth. So everything that he thought was happening, just wasn't. He's never been Myriam's Master. She allowed him to believe that, until he overstepped the mark, and then instantaneously she was back to telling him what to do and he was just her 'duckling' again. That was why there was virtually no reaction from Marc, because it was suddenly so obvious who was really wearing the trousers in their relationship.

To have a realistic sub/dom relationship, the person who is dom has to be believable in that role. And after the last update Marc no longer is. And even Zorlun is now saying that he never intended for Marc to be a real dom, which in my eyes is a big problem. Because if I want Myriam to be submissive, then I want her to be submissive to a really dom character, and not some second rate one like Marc. And there are a whole string of superior options in this game already.

So my question, is where does this leave the Myriam/Marc relationship? If Marc is no longer really Dom, and thus in a position to drive it forward. Who is going to do it? Because most of the time, Myriam just views it as plain wrong. If it's left to her, then surely it's over?

I don't think Marc was ever a real dom. He's too young and inexperienced. I got the impression he didn't have much sexual experience, that he may have been a virgin even. He wanted to have sex with Myriam and saw how his dad got Myriam to do stuff and figured he'd do the same. If you chose the Myriam sub route he is successful, but not because he is a real dom just that Myriam has a submissive nature and doesn't want to hurt Marc.

Marc, I think, is the only character besides Myriam herself that has two paths, choosing sub or dom. There are several other characters that are or could be true doms to Myriam in the game if the player wants her to be a dedicated sub. At this point Marc isn't one of them. Marc doesn't have enough experience or knowledge to be a real dom. Over time that could change if he continues with that choice.

So to your point, where does this relationship go. Game wise it will all depend on the choices given to the player. Just for example here are a couple possibilities. Does the player get to decide Marc's going to be in charge and break Myriam to his will? Or does the player get to decide if Marc's only concern is sex and the role play is enough for him and it doesn't really matter as long as Myriam is okay with his demands?

 

[TheLecher]

I said before that the Myriam/Marc relationship would get back to a status quo, be it early or later on, before evolving again.

It's not that Marc is no longer a dom, he was learning to be one, you have to take that has a stumble and a lesson for when it'll take the dom road again (depending on the player choice, as usual).

I haven't yet had an opportunity to play through this update, so I have yet to see this "mama bear" plot twist of which you all speak. I am, however, reassured to know that Marc will be able to reclaim the dominant position in the relationship. Hopefully, we won't have to wait too terribly long to see that happen.

Does the player get to decide Marc's going to be in charge and break Myriam to his will?

Personally, I'm hoping that Zorlun will include this option. Marc "breaking Myriam to his will" would be nice.

I like that the game allows you to play in such a way that you can opt to keep Myriam out of certain relationships, thus avoiding content which doesn't interest you, but, within the relationships which you choose, you can opt to play in such a way that it seems like Myriam no longer has any say in what happens to her. That is to say, the player still retains control of Myriam's story (within the bounds of the options offered by the developer), but, within the story, it seems as though Myriam is just being swept along by events and the whims of people around her, and that she's just trying to keep her head above water and hope for the best, which can make for an exciting story, when well written. It also allows the player to feel sympathy for Myriam's situation - despite the fact that you are actually the architect of her circumstances - while still enjoying her humiliation and/or suffering.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

I don't think Marc was ever a real dom. He's too young and inexperienced. I got the impression he didn't have much sexual experience, that he may have been a virgin even. He wanted to have sex with Myriam and saw how his dad got Myriam to do stuff and figured he'd do the same. If you chose the Myriam sub route he is successful, but not because he is a real dom just that Myriam has a submissive nature and doesn't want to hurt Marc.

Marc, I think, is the only character besides Myriam herself that has two paths, choosing sub or dom. There are several other characters that are or could be true doms to Myriam in the game if the player wants her to be a dedicated sub. At this point Marc isn't one of them. Marc doesn't have enough experience or knowledge to be a real dom. Over time that could change if he continues with that choice.

So to your point, where does this relationship go. Game wise it will all depend on the choices given to the player. Just for example here are a couple possibilities. Does the player get to decide Marc's going to be in charge and break Myriam to his will? Or does the player get to decide if Marc's only concern is sex and the role play is enough for him and it doesn't really matter as long as Myriam is okay with his demands?

Zorlun has already kind of answered the question. The events of the last update were a reset of their relationship before the custody battle with Anthony. Once that's out of the way in Chapter 3, and presumedly Marc is back living with Myriam again, we'll be starting down this path again and Marc will be a bit older and wiser regarding what he can and can't do in this kind of relationship. The thing is, Marc isn't going to become another Anthony. The whole point of Myriam's custody battle is to get Marc away from the poisonous influence of his father and make him into a better man.

Zorlun seems to have a pretty well thought out plan for all this. So I'm just interested now to see where he goes with it.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

I haven't yet had an opportunity to play through this update, so I have yet to see this "mama bear" plot twist of which you all speak. I am, however, reassured to know that Marc will be able to reclaim the dominant position in the relationship. Hopefully, we won't have to wait too terribly long to see that happen.



Personally, I'm hoping that Zorlun will include this option. Marc "breaking Myriam to his will" would be nice.

I like that the game allows you to play in such a way that you can opt to keep Myriam out of certain relationships, thus avoiding content which doesn't interest you, but, within the relationships which you choose, you can opt to play in such a way that it seems like Myriam no longer has any say in what happens to her. That is to say, the player still retains control of Myriam's story (within the bounds of the options offered by the developer), but, within the story, it seems as though Myriam is just being swept along by events and the whims of people around her, and that she's just trying to keep her head above water and hope for the best, which can make for an exciting story, when well written. It also allows the player to feel sympathy for Myriam's situation - despite the fact that you are actually the architect of her circumstances - while still enjoying her humiliation and/or suffering.

To be honest 'breaking Myriam to his will' sounds a bit too much like Anthony's approach, and I thought we were moving away from that. Sub/Dom relationships are mutual arrangements with the Sub willingly submitting. Forcing someone to do what you want has got nothing to do with this, and is simply the abuse of a bully. Bearing in mind that Myriam is being trained to defend herself and she's going to be Marc's legal guardian anyway, it's simply not realistic to imagine this kind of relationship between them. Because in any case, Myriam will be doing everything she can to make sure Marc doesn't follow in his father's footsteps


For me, the only way this relationship has any chance, is if Marc learns there are limits beyond which he can't push Myriam. She may be submissive, and enjoy being dominated by Marc, but she's not a pushover anymore. And if he goes too far, he'll be the one suffering and not her.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

That was the whole point of kicking Anthony's ass out of her house. Myriam doesn't have that frightened personality anymore and on top of that she started to also be physically active (gym+martial arts). Marc is not going to try anything against her will unless he wants to get a beating.

ps: In my game the goblin will only be allowed to watch as Myriam's sub while she fucks his friend's brains out.

 

[TheLecher]

To be honest 'breaking Myriam to his will' sounds a bit too much like Anthony's approach, and I thought we were moving away from that.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you're wrong. Perhaps it will be up to the player. Unless Zorlun comes out and clearly declares it one way or the other, we all just have to wait and see.

That being said, I do not accept that Marc breaking Myriam to his will means that he becomes another Anthony or acts in exactly the way that Anthony did.

Sub/Dom relationships are mutual arrangements with the Sub willingly submitting. Forcing someone to do what you want has got nothing to do with this, and is simply the abuse of a bully.

This statement is simply not true. There are many sub/Dom relationships which are not mutually beneficial or even consensual. And forcing someone into a sub/Dom relationship does have to do with submission and dominance. Unhealthy horses are still horses, and abusive dominants are still dominants. Now, if you had said, "A good sub/Dom relationship is...", then I would have been more inclined to agree with you.

As someone who has participated in BDSM and D/s for more than two decades, I can tell you with confidence that these things are very complex, and statements which amount to "This is how it always is" tend to be proven wrong more often than they're proven right.

But all of that is talking about BDSM and D/s in real life, and this game is a work of fiction, and all of the characters are fictional characters. So what would constitute "good" or "bad" D/s or BDSM in real life is in no way binding on the storyteller, unless he has stated that one of his goals is to teach people about D/s or BDSM. The storyteller has the freedom to tell the story as he or she pleases. And, of course, I don't know whether or not Zorlun will include something like Marc breaking Myriam to his will. But I'm open to it.

Bearing in mind that Myriam is being trained to defend herself and she's going to be Marc's legal guardian anyway, it's simply not realistic to imagine this kind of relationship between them.

Sure it would be realistic. Myriam was probably naturally submissive (to some extent) to begin with, and has certainly been conditioned for many years to be extremely submissive. That's not something which just goes away because she took a couple of martial arts classes, or because she's had two sessions of therapy. In the first place, it takes more than just a week or two worth of classes for someone to become competent in martial arts. In the second place, Myriam wouldn't want to deploy martial arts against her son. In the third (and most important) place, her conditioning to submit means that, so long as she isn't placed in a situation where the need to fight back outweighs her submissiveness, the question of whether or not she could beat Marc in a fight doesn't even come up.

With regard to the psychiatrist trying to help her to take charge of her sexuality, therapy can only be as effective as she allows it to be, and she has to actively choose to apply the things which the psychiatrist is trying to impart to her. It is often much easier to just go back to what you already know and accept, especially for people who have been abused.

And the fact that Myriam will become Marc's legal guardian would be very close to meaningless, so long as Myriam continues to submit.

Honestly, it's at least as realistic to imagine that the D/s relationship between them would continue, as it is to imagine that it would simply stop. Not that realism is one of the foremost considerations for this game. There have been plenty of things happening in the game, so far, which are in no way realistic. Realism isn't a requirement of good writing or good games. Believability is important, but when it comes to work of fiction, realism is only important insofar as it aids believability. Historical fiction being an obvious exception, of course.

For me, the only way this relationship has any chance, is if Marc learns there are limits beyond which he can't push Myriam. She may be submissive, and enjoy being dominated by Marc, but she's not a pushover anymore. And if he goes too far, he'll be the one suffering and not her.

Perhaps you'll be able to play the game that way. I think it's likely. And perhaps others will be able to play the game differently. If you can avoid content which you don't want to view, it should all be fine.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you're wrong. Perhaps it will be up to the player. Unless Zorlun comes out and clearly declares it one way or the other, we all just have to wait and see.

That being said, I do not accept that Marc breaking Myriam to his will means that he becomes another Anthony or acts in exactly the way that Anthony did.



This statement is simply not true. There are many sub/Dom relationships which are not mutually beneficial or even consensual. And forcing someone into a sub/Dom relationship does have to do with submission and dominance. Unhealthy horses are still horses, and abusive dominants are still dominants. Now, if you had said, "A good sub/Dom relationship is...", then I would have been more inclined to agree with you.

As someone who has participated in BDSM and D/s for more than two decades, I can tell you with confidence that these things are very complex, and statements which amount to "This is how it always is" tend to be proven wrong more often than they're proven right.

But all of that is talking about BDSM and D/s in real life, and this game is a work of fiction, and all of the characters are fictional characters. So what would constitute "good" or "bad" D/s or BDSM in real life is in no way binding on the storyteller, unless he has stated that one of his goals is to teach people about D/s or BDSM. The storyteller has the freedom to tell the story as he or she pleases. And, of course, I don't know whether or not Zorlun will include something like Marc breaking Myriam to his will. But I'm open to it.



Sure it would be realistic. Myriam was probably naturally submissive (to some extent) to begin with, and has certainly been conditioned for many years to be extremely submissive. That's not something which just goes away because she took a couple of martial arts classes, or because she's had two sessions of therapy. In the first place, it takes more than just a week or two worth of classes for someone to become competent in martial arts. In the second place, Myriam wouldn't want to deploy martial arts against her son. In the third (and most important) place, her conditioning to submit means that, so long as she isn't placed in a situation where the need to fight back outweighs her submissiveness, the question of whether or not she could beat Marc in a fight doesn't even come up.

With regard to the psychiatrist trying to help her to take charge of her sexuality, therapy can only be as effective as she allows it to be, and she has to actively choose to apply the things which the psychiatrist is trying to impart to her. It is often much easier to just go back to what you already know and accept, especially for people who have been abused.

And the fact that Myriam will become Marc's legal guardian would be very close to meaningless, so long as Myriam continues to submit.

Honestly, it's at least as realistic to imagine that the D/s relationship between them would continue, as it is to imagine that it would simply stop. Not that realism is one of the foremost considerations for this game. There have been plenty of things happening in the game, so far, which are in no way realistic. Realism isn't a requirement of good writing or good games. Believability is important, but when it comes to work of fiction, realism is only important insofar as it aids believability. Historical fiction being an obvious exception, of course.



Perhaps you'll be able to play the game that way. I think it's likely. And perhaps others will be able to play the game differently. If you can avoid content which you don't want to view, it should all be fine.

Regardless of the semantics of whatever is or is not a sub/dom relationship, the fact remains that Myriam has now drawn a line in the sand, of what she's prepared to accept from Marc and what she's not. It doesn't matter how submissive she is, or how dominant Marc is, or how conditioned she was by Anthony's abuse. She's now shown Marc that he can go so far and no further. Otherwise Mama Bear will come out again, and knock him down.

Everything that has happened to Myriam since she dumped Anthony suggests she is gaining in confidence and becoming more self reliant, even if you play her as a submissive. She's no longer the woman who required a partner to ok everything before making a decision. I mean why would Zorlun make her like this, if he planned to later undermine these positive changes, by giving Marc free rein to have his way with her? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't think Marc will bend her to his will at all, because she's going to be too busy undoing all the bad influence Anthony has had on him. I think he may try to bend her to his will, but ultimately I just don't see him succeeding. Having said that Myriam is becoming more and more corrupted as the game progresses, so she may be more willing to accept some of Marc's demands simply to satisfy herself, whereas in the past she maybe only did it to please him. So I think their sub/dom sex games will continue, just perhaps with different motivations on Myriam's part.

 

[truien]

Just played through 3.08 and I'm having trouble believing that Nick the "captain of the basketball team" is some short, scrawny white kid. On top of that he's embarrassingly shy around Myriam. Where the hell does this story take place? He needs to either be more of a stud in general or you need to recast that character entirely. Someone like Marcus in Culture Shock would work.

 

[john984]

Zorlun can we expect the custody battle in the upcoming update or the following one?

 

[Rawrage]

View attachment 2027309

Project Myriam: Life and Exlorations Walkthrough for v3.08+p

Local download: View attachment 2031501
Alternate download link: Google Drive

The walkthrough got a bit huge since the game has so many options and branching paths. If you want to dive in deep, all the info is there but its probably better used as a reference than read in full. I added 2 easy to follow paths which cover the majority of (sexy) content. Big thanks to Zolrun for the preview version so i can update in time for public releases

20220905: Update to version 3.08
20220908: req changes in 3.08a public release + fixes for red path

Thanks for the walkthrough! I just checked the latest version ( v3.08-b2 ?) because of the mentioned "fixes for red path" change, but it seems it still suggests the same answers for the red route in the early part of the game. As described here, that route blocked me when I needed 25 lust for William. Are you sure the red route is fully fixed?

 

[hermesh]

Thanks for the walkthrough! I just checked the latest version ( v3.08-b2 ?) because of the mentioned "fixes for red path" change, but it seems it still suggests the same answers for the red route in the early part of the game. As described here, that route blocked me when I needed 25 lust for William. Are you sure the red route is fully fixed?

Yes i'm sure, i replayed the path from start to finish before posting this time to be certain i didn't miss anything. However any small deviation in Lust gains will throw you off: i have exactly 25 points of Lust at the time of the choice. So any choice that yields less lust points has to be compensated by one that yields the same amount more. Easiest would be to just follow the green route in the redneck hotel (+2 lust) and only then switch to red, or follow the red path to the letter...

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Zorlun can we expect the custody battle in the upcoming update or the following one?

He said above in answer to one of my questions, that it will be concluded soon. So maybe?

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Does anyone know what blocks William off? If you have very high dirtyness, lust or submissiveness are they a factor? Or is it possibly because Myriam chooses to pursue a relationship with Marc ( if she doesn't she gets William instead)?

 

[TheLecher]

Everything that has happened to Myriam since she dumped Anthony suggests she is gaining in confidence and becoming more self reliant, even if you play her as a submissive. She's no longer the woman who required a partner to ok everything before making a decision. I mean why would Zorlun make her like this, if he planned to later undermine these positive changes, by giving Marc free rein to have his way with her? That doesn't make any sense.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that how Myriam acts and perceives the events in her life depends partially on player choices. You may feel that she is becoming much stronger and more in control of her life, but that may be partly due to the choices you've made in the game. I think that, to at least some extent, she does seem to be gaining in confidence and decisiveness in all paths which I have viewed, but in some cases, the change is only slight.

Why would Zorlun allow a scenario in which Marc takes control of Myriam again and has the option to do as he pleases with her? Perhaps because he has made it clear from the beginning of this game that he intends player choices to heavily influence how the story unfolds and how Myriam's character will develop. For instance, in the synopsis of the game from the OP we find this phrase about Myriam, "will she embrace her new found independence or will she slip back into the comfort of a subservient life?" That sounds like it applies directly to what we're discussing.

And in the Developer Notes from the OP, we find this:

"And Myriam, well she's the main character of the game, and you'll be guiding her as her life changes, making her take charge of this new life or letting her slip back in her old bad habits. She will be confronted to her own repressed feelings, to good and evil people, to love, lust and hate, and some strange and weird events.

I designed it to be heavy on choices, your influence on the destiny of Myriam will be big, she will be able to live some vanilla happy life, become a full on independent woman, or slip in a life of debauchery.

You'll decide."

Given that the developer has stressed that player choice will heavily influence what will happen to Myriam, how she behaves, and how her character will develop, it makes no sense to me that you think it makes no sense that Marc could once again take control of Myriam. How could you possibly think that it makes no sense, when the developer of the game has made statements like these?

I'm heavily inclined to believe that you'll have the option to play out the story in the way that you've described. But why would you think that this would be the only option, in a game which is supposed to be so much about player choice?

I don't think Marc will bend her to his will at all, because she's going to be too busy undoing all the bad influence Anthony has had on him. I think he may try to bend her to his will, but ultimately I just don't see him succeeding. Having said that Myriam is becoming more and more corrupted as the game progresses, so she may be more willing to accept some of Marc's demands simply to satisfy herself, whereas in the past she maybe only did it to please him. So I think their sub/dom sex games will continue, just perhaps with different motivations on Myriam's part.

I think that you're right, regarding your playthrough of the game. Stop trying to make decisions about how my playthrough will unfold.

Does anyone know what blocks William off? If you have very high dirtyness, lust or submissiveness are they a factor? Or is it possibly because Myriam chooses to pursue a relationship with Marc ( if she doesn't she gets William instead)?

I have no idea about this. In one of the older versions, I chose to not have Myriam do anything sexual with William when the opportunity first arose. After choosing that, there was no option to do anything sexual with him in the school showers, so I assumed that he was just blocked off for the rest of the game. But in V3.07, when William was sleeping over at Myriam's place, they were able to fool around, despite my earlier choices. So it does appear that he can be blocked off for a time, and then become available again.