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clowns234

Engaged Member
Game Developer
May 2, 2021
3,090
4,845
They basically took it as far as they were told to. That's why previous mother/son/father/daughter relationships had to become "landlady/tenant" relationship. Plenty tried the step-family, and one of the few that got around not being pulled entirely that I'm aware of, is The Twist where the MC and his sister are both adopted.
It was that, or go the way of Nopy (closed down because of payment processors being dicks).
I wasn't in the meeting but I would assume patreon made a wide ruling because that's the easier path. Had it affected their bottom line like with OnlyFans, I assume things would have went differently. BTW, OnlyFans gets away with mother-son / brother-sister roleplay, don't they?

Bottom line here is Zorlun had to adjust. It sucks but he continues on, which I appreciate.
 

clowns234

Engaged Member
Game Developer
May 2, 2021
3,090
4,845
I think you should be able to add a disclaimer, 'All models are 18 or over. All models are fictional characters in a fictional world and no actual incest occurred.' Then, in a perfect world, you can take them to court for violating your rights to free speech or some shit like that. :)
 

PhazeUFO

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,505
1,456
Not sure what jurisdiction you're referencing but I've never heard of anti stepcest legislation. I remember a couple years ago I saw a news story about some dude marrying his former step mom. It'd also create an absolute fucking nightmare and invalidate existing relationships in situations where lets say your girlfriend's mom and your dad hooked up and got married.
The thing you have to remember is companies like Patreon are located in California and are surrounded by their laws and propaganda. Just because one state says it's fine doesn't mean California or New York say it is, therefore it has to go if you want to use the site. Silly, but that's how it goes.
Nah, they just want to keep operating as a company, so they appease the payment processors...
That too to a degree. Although, Onlyfans tried that and almost lost it all.
I wasn't in the meeting but I would assume patreon made a wide ruling because that's the easier path. Had it affected their bottom line like with OnlyFans, I assume things would have went differently. BTW, OnlyFans gets away with mother-son / brother-sister roleplay, don't they?

Bottom line here is Zorlun had to adjust. It sucks but he continues on, which I appreciate.
They get away with it because they have way too much income for both them and the processors to risk tossing it all away. Porn is their only real source of income and banning it would have destroyed the site.
I think you should be able to add a disclaimer, 'All models are 18 or over. All models are fictional characters in a fictional world and no actual incest occurred.' Then, in a perfect world, you can take them to court for violating your rights to free speech or some shit like that. :)
If you had the money to outlast them, you probably could. Poor folk aren't able to sue those big companies though.
 

MGUltimate

Member
Dec 12, 2021
463
539
I think you should be able to add a disclaimer, 'All models are 18 or over. All models are fictional characters in a fictional world and no actual incest occurred.' Then, in a perfect world, you can take them to court for violating your rights to free speech or some shit like that. :)
Free speech only applies to the government can't take action on your speech (with exceptions - no threats or false advertising, for example.) It doesn't mean you can say what you want on someone else's platform, just like you can't tell your boss to fuck off and expect to still have a job.
 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
Step Incest from a legal point of view is incest. The self appointed feminazi censors will use that at another basis to suppress any game and VN they want to.
Nope. Incest is defined as having a close blood relation, even in USA (I assume, maybe wrongly, you are from there).
I already made an example for USA-based people without names, but to make it clearer, it is famous that Soon-Yi Previn became stepmother of her stepbrothers, by marrying her adoptive father Woody Allen, and they could do it, because she had no blood link to Woody Allen.
As far as I recall (but I may be wrong), Mia Farrow's lawyers wanted even to try the "incest" card to create legal trouble for Allen, but it did not work out, exactly because there was no blood link.
There are cases, and States in USA, where sexual activity is automatically illegal, even if consensual, if one of the two is legal guardian, specifically in case of certain age factors (one of the two being minor, and the other legal guardian/tutor of the minor, even if already above the age of consent), and I think (but here, I can be even more wrong, I am not very deep in "celebrity news"), they tried even that, but if one looks at the date when they got married, she was officialy 27 years old, so, way above that, and if I remember well, even when they they started their relation, she was already above the age to be legally independent.

I had an exchange with Zorlun in the past, and as you can see even from his past posts, although I would not use some of the words you used to define them, it is clear that Patreon simply said made a blank interdiction, which meant any reference to "son", "mother", etc. would hit the wall.
It is not a legal matter, it is a (Patreon) policy matter.
 

Banality

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2021
1,731
2,992
ummmm.... so what is the point to make someone a LEGAL PART OF YOUR FAMILY when it is LEGAL no issue? And just marying a woman doesn't make you legally the stepdad of her kids... the kids have a father. You have to adopt them as well..... at least in most european countries.
 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
That's not what OF tried.
They tried to drop the porn association and become more mainstream, in a similar vein to Youtube. It really didn't work. :LOL:
Well, with COVID, there has been a lot more mainstream business, and even school, or family Internet traffic, for things like streaming and videoconferencing, but at least till pre-COVID (don't know after), porn-related was still the biggest traffic on the Internet.
While the estimates vary widely over time and source, only in USA the porn industry (notice, porn industry, not sex workers/escort/prostitution or how you want to call it) turnover has been estimated between some 3.9 billions a year and 13 billions a year, and most of it is paid using credit cards.
Even getting a tiny bit of that volume, can still mean quite an amount of money...
 

iainmore

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2017
1,264
1,415
Not sure what jurisdiction you're referencing but I've never heard of anti stepcest legislation. I remember a couple years ago I saw a news story about some dude marrying his former step mom. It'd also create an absolute fucking nightmare and invalidate existing relationships in situations where lets say your girlfriend's mom and your dad hooked up and got married.
In UK Step relations would still be regarded as incest from a legal stand point. = criminal offense dude.
 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
In UK Step relations would still be regarded as incest from a legal stand point. = criminal offense dude.
Are you sure it is legally defined as "incest", and not as a crime because the person is the legal guardian over the minor (and is a minor) or something similar ?

Actually, I already found an answer, though it is an old one, from the original law in 1956. At least in the original law, UK was the same as other country, there had to be a blood relation to have incest ("half-" means they have at least one blood parent in common), so, a step relation was NOT considered incest.

'Incest by a man

(1)It is an offence for a man to have sexual intercourse with a woman whom he knows to be his grand-daughter, daughter, sister or mother.

(2)In the foregoing subsection " sister " includes half-sister, and for the purposes of that subsection any expression importing a relationship between two people shall be taken to apply notwithstanding that the relationship is not traced through lawful wedlock.

Incest by a woman


(1)It is an offence for a woman of the age of sixteen or over to permit a man whom she knows to be her grandfather, father, brother or son to have sexual intercourse with her by her consent.

(2)In the foregoing subsection " brother" includes half-brother, and for the purposes of that subsection any expression importing a relationship between two people shall be taken to apply notwithstanding that the relationship is not traced through lawful wedlock.'
 
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iainmore

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2017
1,264
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Are you sure it is legally defined as "incest", and not as a crime because the person is the legal guardian over the minor (and is a minor) ?
Oh yes it is. I know one guy close to me that got his step sister pregnant. He is now on the sex offenders register for the rest of hs life despite the girl in question consenting and both being of legal ages. He wasn't jailed because he still had to work to hand over child support for kiddie.
 
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Snugglepuff

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 27, 2017
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Are you sure it is legally defined as "incest", and not as a crime because the person is the legal guardian over the minor (and is a minor) ?
It is classified as incest for the purposes of a criminal act, which depending on circumstances allows for other similar charges to be applied separately.
Which is incredibly ironic given the genealogical history of the monarchy :ROFLMAO:

Even getting a tiny bit of that volume, can still mean quite an amount of money...
The issue was how much they were starting to lose (too much, too quickly), before they were ever going to see any return on their change of image/allowed content. They were scared they were about to go under before they could even stabilise prior to becoming a mainstream platform.
 

PhazeUFO

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,505
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Nope. Incest is defined as having a close blood relation, even in USA (I assume, maybe wrongly, you are from there).
I already made an example for USA-based people without names, but to make it clearer, it is famous that Soon-Yi Previn became stepmother of her stepbrothers, by marrying her adoptive father Woody Allen, and they could do it, because she had no blood link to Woody Allen.
As far as I recall (but I may be wrong), Mia Farrow's lawyers wanted even to try the "incest" card to create legal trouble for Allen, but it did not work out, exactly because there was no blood link.
There are cases, and States in USA, where sexual activity is automatically illegal, even if consensual, if one of the two is legal guardian, specifically in case of certain age factors (one of the two being minor, and the other legal guardian/tutor of the minor, even if already above the age of consent), and I think (but here, I can be even more wrong, I am not very deep in "celebrity news"), they tried even that, but if one looks at the date when they got married, she was officialy 27 years old, so, way above that, and if I remember well, even when they they started their relation, she was already above the age to be legally independent.

I had an exchange with Zorlun in the past, and as you can see even from his past posts, although I would not use some of the words you used to define them, it is clear that Patreon simply said made a blank interdiction, which meant any reference to "son", "mother", etc. would hit the wall.
It is not a legal matter, it is a (Patreon) policy matter.
The issue with your example is it is defeated when you cross state lines. I already explained that different states have different rules, and different judges make it worse. Sure, you could appeal, but it doesn't mean that a judge won't rule differently. Of course patreon is the final say in it and it is probably due to their state and card companies.
 

iainmore

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2017
1,264
1,415
It is classified as incest for the purposes of a criminal act, which depending on circumstances allows for other similar charges to be applied separately.
Which is incredibly ironic given the genealogical history of the monarchy :ROFLMAO:



The issue was how much they were starting to lose (too much, too quickly), before they were ever going to see any return on their change of image/allowed content. They were scared they were about to go under before they could even stabilise prior to becoming a mainstream platform.
Yup the Brit Royals are notoriously incestuous. Eugenic practices are not uncommon amongst them.
 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
The issue with your example is it is defeated when you cross state lines. I already explained that different states have different rules, and different judges make it worse. Sure, you could appeal, but it doesn't mean that a judge won't rule differently. Of course patreon is the final say in it and it is probably due to their state and card companies.
Well, about the different rules, I undestand what you mean, you can check the my post when I checked the age of consent in USA.

In short, man, you have a mess, and if you know two young persons who want to have any kind of sexual activity, I would stronly advise they check with a specialised lawyer ! :-D

You even states that prohibit anything below 18 even if consensual and both below 18; states that have an age of consent, but then allow someone below the age of consent to consent if the partner is less than two or less than three years older, to the point that would accept consent from 13 year old if the partner is 14 or (not yet, if I recall well) 15; one in which one can have sex with someone below age of consent, if they are legally married (and how do you marry in a legally valid way if they are below the age to consent to marriage ?)...

But still, I doubt they will use so freely the "incest" label, the same way in which in USA they do not want to use the "statutory rape" label, although they apply widely in practice (and with the mess both you and I already referred to :)).
 
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Feb 12, 2021
434
533
Oh yes it is. I know one guy close to me that got his step sister pregnant. He is now on the sex offenders register for the rest of hs life despite the girl in question consenting and both being of legal ages. He wasn't jailed because he still had to work to hand over child support for kiddie.
...??? hang on; so you're telling me, that if a legal-aged guy was fucking a legal-aged girl, n they're unrelated by blood, n both have separate sets of divorced parents, if 1 of their parents winds up marrying 1 of the other's parents, their relationship goes from being legal to illegal, under the definition of the laws in the UK??!! that is just TOTALLY FUBAR...

Well, about the different rules, I undestand what you mean, you can check the my post when I checked the age of consent in USA.

In short, men, you have a mess, and if you know two young persons who want to have any kind of sexual activity, I would stronly advise they check with a specialised lawyer ! :-D

You even states that prohibit anything below 18 even if consensual and both below 18; states that have an age of consent, but then allow someone below the age of consent to consent if the partner is less than two or less than three years older, to the point that would accept consent from 13 year old if the partner is 14 or (not yet, if I recall well) 15; one in which one can have sex with someone below age of consent, if they are legally married (and how do you marry in a legally valid way if they are below the age to consent to marriage ?)...

But still, I doubt they will use so freely the "incest" label, the same way in which in USA they do not want to use the "statutory rape" label, although they apply widely in practice (and with the mess both you and I already referred to :)).
reminded me of the movie "Transformers: Age of Extinction":
...go to where it says "Texas Penal Code":

An example is Texas Penal Code, Section 22.011(e). It provides an affirmative defense to a charge of sexual assault if all of the following apply:

  • The accused was not more than 3 years older than the perceived victim
  • The perceived victim was older than 14 years of age at the time of the offense (Age of consent in Texas is 17 years)
  • The accused was not at the time registered or required to register for life as a sex offender
  • The conduct did not constitute incest
  • Neither the accused nor perceived victim would commit bigamy by marrying the other (in other words, neither was married to a third person)

dammit...didn't realize i signed up for an interpretive law class online; i just wanna get back to fapping, n empty my nutz :sneaky:
 
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cold_arctus

Devoted Member
Sep 25, 2018
8,944
10,839
...??? hang on; so you're telling me, that if a legal-aged guy was fucking a legal-aged girl, n they're unrelated by blood, n both have separate sets of divorced parents, if 1 of their parents winds up marrying 1 of the other's parents, their relationship goes from being legal to illegal, under the definition of the laws in the UK??!! that is just TOTALLY FUBAR...
The UK law is a bit outdated. The point of the law is this passage:
[...] if both the parties have attained the age of twenty-one at the time of the marriage and the younger party has not at any time before attaining the age of eighteen been a child of the family in relation to the other party.

(5) In this section “child of the family” in relation to any person, means a child who has lived in the same household as that person and been treated by that person as a child of his family.
You can marry your step-mother if you are 21 or older and never lived with her under the same roof. In other cases you are not allowed to marry her.

 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
It is classified as incest for the purposes of a criminal act, which depending on circumstances allows for other similar charges to be applied separately.
OK, that makes more sense, also legally, in light of the reference I found. It is not a matter of being legally defined as, but rather, considered and punished as if.
The sexual offenders registration can come from a big number of things, that are not related to blood relations, that why I was wondering.

Which is incredibly ironic given the genealogical history of the monarchy :ROFLMAO:
Oh, it is not only the UK one. Someone already joked about the "German blood", remember the tragedy for Queen Victoria was that she had tried to place all members in the family in the thrones around Europe, and pretty much succeeded, but then, WWI was basically a war between cousins.
The emophilia of the Zarevich Alexander in Russia, was directly linked to too much inbreeding between closely related people, first degree cousins.
Is the reason there is at least one country I know of, where "incest" is stricly only for blood relations (other crimes can apply if there is a legal tutor/adopted father or mother relation), but that included (and AFAIK still includes) up to first degree cousins, which instead the UK law from 1956 I quoted conveniently ;-) excluded.
 

ouch2020

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2020
1,895
2,606
dammit...didn't realize i signed up for an interpretive law class online; i just wanna get back to fapping, n empty my nutz :sneaky:
No, much worst :p :), you signed up for a class covering and mixing international comparative law, national marriage law, divorce law, criminal law (in most countries classified as the part that goes under "sexual crimes" or "crimes against the person", but in some maybe still referred as "crimes against morality", etc.), plus, because we are including USA, also state law and its interaction with the federal one for the same country :).

Though till none of us takes our exchange too much to the extreme seriousness, I think is funny :), and only reinforces the "bottom line".

We should not try to figure out the logic in Patreon bugging Zorlun (and others in future, probably), just accept it is their policy, and see how we can move on from there :) (the patches, one already promised, and one more or less also).
 
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