- May 11, 2020
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- Thread starter Zorlun
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- Mar 22, 2019
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- May 11, 2020
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Points of view.
Actually, originally I had not created it for others, it was just some mods I did for myself, but then people were pissed off at the changes forced by Patreon, so I started distributing it.
The main line of the story does not change, because it is Zorlun's game and that does not change, but there there are changes here and there for coherence, e.g. in the dialogue with Dr Silver, Myriam can tell him she feels the appeal for incest, that does not appear in the Patreon version, and the incest variable is updated. Also, a number of dialogues are changed.
Actually, there is one aspect where the incest patch is more coherent than the Patreon version, the custody battle - that's because originally Zorlun had foreseen the storyline with Myriam and Anthony married, and Katherine and Marc both their kids.
It would not be impossible for Anthony to lose even legal parenthood (nothing that custody and legal parenthood are not the same, the second is broader, where it applies), and Myriam then trying to get it by using the fact they lived togheter, but it would be a different process.
The kind of situation proceeding described in the game is more in line with a custody battle of a couple divorcing.
In case someone wonder, yes, I know there is the doubt if Marc is already 18, would he not be anyway legally independent ?
For that, I can only offer the excuse that in some States in USA the full rights are reached only at 21, though I admit I never checekd if that applies also to the parenthood rights (meaning, before 21 you are not independent, aside the fact of being enlist as soon as you are 17 even against the will of the legal guardians), and there is another possibility Katherine is the older, Marc is a bit younger, let's keep it to that .
I did think about the fact it would have made the court case obsolete in the game if you have the incest patch enabled as the current court case is about legal guardianship as opposed to a custody battle, and also that if Myriam was Marc's biological mother, then Anthony taking Marc against his and his mothers will will would be seen as Anthony kidnaping Marc and therefore the police would be able to get Marc back.
Let's not forget that most custody battles end up in favour of the mother and with the amount of abuse shown and the fact the father is only after custody of one of the kids would be seen as him trying to be vindictive towards the mother. It also wouldn't help Anthony's custody battle either way that he is on bail for rape.
- Apr 26, 2017
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Wait and be patient like every other pirate. 
Correct for the second part, in that I would also expect Anthony to lose, disagree for the first (the idea that the incest patch makes it obsolete, suggesting without incest patch is perfectly fine).
In the Patreon version, Myriam has no blood relation with Marc, he is the son of Anthony, and Myriam and Anthony have no legally binding connection (legal cohabitation as exist with variants in some countries in Europe, e.g. the French call it PACS, even have an expression, "pacsé", for when people are in that situation).
So, in the Patreon version, the proceeding is wrong, since it is indicated and shown as a custody case Myriam vs Anthony. In the Patreon version, Myriam has no legal standing for a direct custody case against Anthony as father.
A custody case of that type is based on having two parents with equal legal parenthood rights, but in the Patreon version, Myriam has none - that because Patreon had forbidden Zorlun even from using the "stepmom" approach, so he could not even try to use that workaround.
What you could have is first a hearing to take away parenthood and custody from Anthony (but that would be some kind of social service kicking in), Marc being put under foster care/court tutelage, and Myriam trying after to get the custody of Marc - her testimony could be used in the first, though the filing for custody at the same time could give an argument to a lawyer to say she is biased by a vested interest and her testimony should not be considered.
The incest patch brings back the original situation foreseen by Zorlun, when Myrian and Anthony were married, and Marc and Katherine were both their children, thus it makes the custody court case Myriam vs Anthony more correct (in the limit of the game, of course).
That was the original scenario by Zorlun, and the one where a custody case Anthony vs Myriam makes sense as parents fighting in a divorce over the kids - unfortunately, it happens often in real life, where the "unfortunately", it is because often it also becomes not so much "fighting over the kids", but "fighting through the kids" and/or "fighting using the kids".
To be clear, I am not defending Anthony, just trying to think how a (nasty, if I am allowed a judgement
, though could be a successful one) lawyer could try to turn things around.For the "kidnapping", to have that, there must be one of the parents who has custody and the other one that stops the first one from having access to the kid.
Myriam was right in not trying to stop Anthony at first, because in that case she could have been considered the one in the wrong, but there is no indication before that custory hearing that Anthony has forbidden Myriam from ever seeing or being in contact with Marc, and he did not bring it in some far away place, so much he continued to go to the same school and see (well, also "see"
) Myriam.So, no indication of fully fledged kidnapping.
I agree in a custody case between a divorcing married couple, the rape case against Anthony could probably alone be used to weight in favour of Myriam, like is the case in the game, at least for a temporary measure.
At the same time, the rape allegation against Anthony is a separate case, especially in the USA system a lawyer would probably play on the "innocent till proven guilty" and the fact just by chance Myriam is a witness for the prosecution in the rape case but has an interest in having Anthony comdemned to help the custody case, and if were to come out that Myriam had done some activities (especially the sexual ones with Marc), that could be enough to kick her claim out (except in couple of USA States where incest is legal, but even if not illegal, the parameters are a bit different for certain cases).
I don't like it, but in USA it especially possible to discredit a witness not on the factual base of whether their testimony was truthful and e.g. they could objectively have seen something or not, but by creating a doubt in general about morality and behaviour of the person, and using that to suggest they are not a reliable witness even for the specific event.
The history of abuse toward Myriam would count, but to be seen.
In some case victims of violence are allowed to talk under anonimity, and it's true it is a single judge, but still, in general for that kind of situations for the "abuse" argument to be used, there must be some kind of disclosure that the argument has been used towards the other side.
The other side could try to turn it into the fact in more than one occasion in the videos Myriam was clearly turned on and taking on her own a submissive stance (we players saw some harder scene, but with no video, and the judge tries to insinuate doubts with Myriam as part of bullying her), and the video of the dinner (for the ones who did that scene) was taken as showing her willingly taking part (since it started only from a certain point).
The "contempt" by Anthony can weight against him, but before that, the aggressivity towards Myriam is not something special.
Met someone once that was divorce lawyer turned to criminal lawyer, because "criminal" can be bad, but "divorce" was worst
, and I knew someone who was doing both mediation on the workplace (e.g. in possible moral harassment) and family counselling, and was confirming that on the workplace even if they are not friends, people can go back to work together, but family breakup, is the worst.The reference from Marc about Anthony making Myriam's life a nightmare could count, but would still be something that may or may not be considered as being "the mother influencing the kid".
The fact of battling only over one of the kids can indeed been seeing as vindictive, but they would probably turn it into something like "is because the mother has always put the girl against me poor dad, I only reacted" and stuff like that - plus, given the comments he makes while he is pushing Myriam, that judge is not someone who will consider much that kind of element, that neither party tried to raise.
Agree Anthony should lose, especially after he gets condemned for rape, but at the same time, before that, I would not be surprised if the judge needed to hear again the arguments of the parties (or "hear" the "arguments"
;-), and whatever else Zorlun can think about in the situation, although my guess is that the judge was a one off).While your dedicated attempt to change the story with a patch to continue your incest kink is admirable it isn't the story being told. Since this isn't a finished VN, in essence a draft, it is subject to change and the author is allowed to do that as many authors of works do, even here on F95. Zorlun can go back and change anything in this story if he wants and he did for whatever reason. Doesn't mean you can't have your mod to change the story to please you and others who want the incest kink, but it would be nice to quit saying it's the original story, it was his first draft that got changed. Just reference your mod when talking about incest not as some sacred quest to continue the "original" story Zorlun isn't telling.
The Patreon version is the canon as it is the only official version of the VN. So, the story is they aren't married and Marc isn't her biological child.
The Patreon version is the canon as it is the only official version of the VN. So, the story is they aren't married and Marc isn't her biological child.
OK not going to add all that in a reply, but not adding the bit about legal guardianship I mentioned was a bit disingenuous on your part as it explained my stance better than the paragraph you included. With the incest patch it would be a custodial case, without the incest patch it becomes a guardianship case.
Also custody battles can take a while so an injunction could be issued early on ordering Anthony to return Marc to the marital home, giving him visitation rights supervised or not until the court hearing.
With the guardianship issue, Myriam doesn't have any rights over Marc until the court has made a decision.
I'm just wonder what the outcome based on the basic information would have been, whether Myriam would have got the judges decision without the sex videos, without flashing the judge or giving the judge a bj/handjob, I (atm) can't be bothered to go through it changing decisions to find out.
Also custody battles can take a while so an injunction could be issued early on ordering Anthony to return Marc to the marital home, giving him visitation rights supervised or not until the court hearing.
With the guardianship issue, Myriam doesn't have any rights over Marc until the court has made a decision.
I'm just wonder what the outcome based on the basic information would have been, whether Myriam would have got the judges decision without the sex videos, without flashing the judge or giving the judge a bj/handjob, I (atm) can't be bothered to go through it changing decisions to find out.
- May 11, 2020
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Perdon , what ???? why is Patreon canon ? did you come up with this "Dogma" ??
clever move, Zorlun can't really take a stance here without repercusions in his income, and he is the only one who can tell us how the story was intended in the first place.
We sort of already know what Zorlun's originally plan was as Myriam and Anthony were married and had 2 kids, but patreon doesn't like incest, they are ok with rape and shit, but no incest.
- Nov 21, 2018
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When a creator caves in to outside pressure (in this case, censorship), and changes his story to suit someone else, the argument you just made loses its validity.
If the initiative to change the story had come from the creator, and if the changes to the story had been the creator's own changes, then you would have a point. But that isn't the case. The version of the game which Zorlun is making isn't really canon, because it really isn't Zorlun's game anymore, in the fullest sense.
Of course, the incest patch also isn't canon, because it's not being written by the creator. It may be written "in the creator's footsteps", so to speak, but it's still the work of a third party, and therefore not canon.
There really isn't a truly canon version of the game, anymore, just something which is partially canon. That's the unfortunate consequence of a creator allowing someone else to take creative control away from him or her.
- Jun 11, 2020
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But Patreon is what pays his bills, we might not like there hypocritical rules, but if you want to keep using their platform to get paid you have to. I’ve seen other good games already get shutdown from Patreon police because of incest content. It’s like our jobs, we might not like or even hate our jobs but we have to keep going to them if we want to get a paycheck right?
I can only assume that you have come only recently to the game, thus the wrong information.
I am sorry you seem to be heating up about it, but the incest is the canon the way we both seem to define, i.e. the story as originally foreseen by Zorlun - what you can say, as Viressa pointed out, it that my version is not canon because is not the one diffused by Zorlun, but in that sense, there is effectively no canon version anymore since already some versions ago.
Zorlun had to take out the incest due to Patreon intervention threatening to ban him.
It is abundantly "documented" in the posts by Zorlun himself on this thread, just search for it.
I am not making a new story by putting back the incest, I am only keeping in an element that Zorlun himself had originally foreseen and was present in the game at the start and for some time.
It is one of my committments to Zorlun, I am doing the modifications necessary to have the incest and keep coherence with it, and I can make comments and suggestions for scenes like everybody else in the thread, but I am not creating a new story, if I spent the time to do that, I could as well create my own game.
Actually, he did more than once, I recall at least two instance when people where flaming against him for having taking away the incest, even though he explained it was not his choice.
I am one of those who tried to make people understand, then decided the best way was since I was making the incest patch for myself (because I did not like the fact Patreon had forced Zorlun's hand) was to share it.
This thing about either people getting inflamed because incest was taken away, or people getting inflamed because incest is put in, is recurring on this game/thread
You mean the one in early access (public on the 5th)? If so, two fairly big scenes, one following up in the spa, where Myriam meet with the naughty couple vaguely mention during chapter 1 (one possible naughty scene with two possible iterations) and then meet Nubia in the sauna (only some teasing and character development); second scene is at Eve's loft, with Myriam has the possibility to pass some time with Marc (one possible naughty scene with two possible iterations depending on previous choices) or Katherine, with Myriam witnessing her having some naughty time of her own (three possible iterations depending on the choice made at the swimming pool).