VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.12+p] [Zorlun]

[ouch2020]

This game contains many similarities with 'A Wife and Mother'. Both the MCs have a sexual relationship with their sons (Marc was her son in the original),both have husbands who neglect them to some extent,

Ehm, "neglect" is a gross understatement, I would say :-D.

But like all parodies( and remember I never said it was a parody, just that it could be construed as such) this game takes those similarities to extremes, and so unlike 'the blue-balling AWAM' this game is in fact a total sexfest.

In this phrase, you are still talking like assuming Myriam is meant as a parody, while Zorlun was always adamant it is not the case - he may have been more or less unwillingly influenced in some aspect, but never meant is a parody - effectively, more than one of the aspects you mention as support for the parody classification, are present in n games, it is more the combination and how they are put in the game/story that changes it.

 

[ouch2020]

You kind of have that backwards there my friend, Earlier versions of Druuna (around 84-86) had and a more traditional caucasian/western look due to the publishers demands (their editorial changes are very apparent if you compare his raw sketches to the final inked versions) whereas as Serpieri got more editorial input in his creation he took her back to the Native look (the image I linked to was from 2001 and his vision for the character is very obvious).

Both her and Myriam have their own distinct appeal, though I am a huge fan of Druuna's look, I've always liked voluptuous brunettes (being half native American myself).

Actually...
We have exchanged enough with Zorlun to think he will not be offended, I don't know about your reaction, but here I come playing "smartass" :-D

You are both at light years of distance from reality, Serpieri is Italian, and the design of Druuna has less than zero to do with "native American", whether with that is meant one of the tribes of North American, Indians from Amazonia, pre-Colombian central America populations... Although apparently she was very popular in USA (did not know, honestly).

The inspiration for Druuna came from a volouptous (that, yes) unknown Italian woman taking a swim naked (which most probably means illegally, hush hush , I don't think at that time there would have been a nudist beach in Ostia, which is close to Rome), and Valérie Kaprisky, a French actress (so much that I remember a V4 character which was Druuna but also Valérie Kaprisky), though at the same time, if I remember correctly, Valérie Kaprisky was beautiful but was less curvy than Druuna. (Edit, just checked again, and I remembered well, definitively attractive, but way less curvy than Druuna)

One thing that can console both of you, is a reference to temperament like the Brazilian, but honestly, I suspect Serpieri was a bit biased by stereotypes in Italy, otherwise he would have known there are also other countries were women can be quite warm in a certain type of contexts ;-).

Here you have it from Serpieri himself, no need to believe me

You must be registered to see the links

 

[redharvest1]

Actually...
We have exchanged enough with Zorlun to think he will not be offended, I don't know about your reaction, but here I come playing "smartass" :-D

You are both at light years of distance from reality, Serpieri is Italian, and the design of Druuna has less than zero to do with "native American", whether with that is meant one of the tribes of North American, Indians from Amazonia, pre-Colombian central America populations... Although apparently she was very popular in USA (did not know, honestly).

The inspiration for Druuna came from a volouptous (that, yes) unknown Italian woman taking a swim naked (which most probably means illegally, hush hush , I don't think at that time there would have been a nudist beach in Ostia, which is close to Rome), and Valérie Kaprisky, a French actress (so much that I remember a V4 character which was Druuna but also Valérie Kaprisky), though at the same time, if I remember correctly, Valérie Kaprisky was beautiful but was less curvy than Druuna. (Edit, just checked again, and I remembered well, definitively attractive, but way less curvy than Druuna)

One thing that can console both of you, is a reference to temperament like the Brazilian, but honestly, I suspect Serpieri was a bit biased by stereotypes in Italy, otherwise he would have known there are also other countries were women can be quite warm in a certain type of contexts ;-).

Here you have it from Serpieri himself, no need to believe me

You must be registered to see the links

Interesting read... thanks. I never take open and thoughtful counter points in any manner other than how they were delivered .
Serieri has long been one of my biggest artistic inspirations, along with the early works of Richard Corben and David Cho. With Serieri's portrayal of Druuna being as close as possible to what I considered the ideal woman should look like.

BTW I do remember that V4 version quite well (iirc she was free, named Bruuna, even came with her own hair) it's a shame that model never got upgraded.

 

[Zorlun]

Actually...
We have exchanged enough with Zorlun to think he will not be offended, I don't know about your reaction, but here I come playing "smartass" :-D

You are both at light years of distance from reality, Serpieri is Italian, and the design of Druuna has less than zero to do with "native American", whether with that is meant one of the tribes of North American, Indians from Amazonia, pre-Colombian central America populations... Although apparently she was very popular in USA (did not know, honestly).

The inspiration for Druuna came from a volouptous (that, yes) unknown Italian woman taking a swim naked (which most probably means illegally, hush hush , I don't think at that time there would have been a nudist beach in Ostia, which is close to Rome), and Valérie Kaprisky, a French actress (so much that I remember a V4 character which was Druuna but also Valérie Kaprisky), though at the same time, if I remember correctly, Valérie Kaprisky was beautiful but was less curvy than Druuna. (Edit, just checked again, and I remembered well, definitively attractive, but way less curvy than Druuna)

One thing that can console both of you, is a reference to temperament like the Brazilian, but honestly, I suspect Serpieri was a bit biased by stereotypes in Italy, otherwise he would have known there are also other countries were women can be quite warm in a certain type of contexts ;-).

Here you have it from Serpieri himself, no need to believe me

You must be registered to see the links

Interesting...
I went from memory of what Serpieri had told in an interview as well as in some art books I have from him, but those memories coming from decades ago, I might have my facts wrong. ^^

Though taking a look at the book, "X", written by him and talking about the genesis of Druuna, he's talking about the Valérie part, and then as I said, that in the drafts and firs pages of Morbus Gravis, she looked a bit native and then her features lightly changed and evolved... (and I'm paraphrasing him here).

Here the page (sorry, it's in French ^^ )...


So, yeah, I'm right. ^^

 

[Zorlun]

Sorry for going out of topic people (shame on me ^^ )... I'm just a big fan of Druuna. ^^

 

[afterlights]

Picked up her first appearance in Heavy Metal magazine at a gas station in '86. She was just the perfect thing an adolescent boy needed to be exposed to.

 

[redharvest1]

Picked up her first appearance in Heavy Metal magazine at a gas station in '86. She was just the perfect thing an adolescent boy needed to be exposed to.

Hey I was stationed in Germany in '86, trust me that issue of Heavy Metal got passed around the barracks a lot. It was more popular than the tattered copies of Penthouse and Hustler we had stashed in a certain PFC's footlocker lol.

 

[doccop63]

Sorry for going out of topic people (shame on me ^^ )... I'm just a big fan of Druuna. ^^

Hell, if Anyone's entitled,

Picked up her first appearance in Heavy Metal magazine at a gas station in '86. She was just the perfect thing an adolescent boy needed to be exposed to.

Same here.

 

[Ranxerox]

Kids here be like:

Druuna? Serpieri? Corben? HM?
Wtf is that..?

 

[Ranxerox]

Picked up her first appearance in Heavy Metal magazine at a gas station in '86. She was just the perfect thing an adolescent boy needed to be exposed to.

I got hooked after watching a bad and censored copy of the movie on a Betamax tape... and fell in love with Taarna..
I was 18 and living in a third-world country. As soon as I got the chance to travel to the States to study English, I started buying it and subscribing to it.
Right now, it's even harder for me to subscribe because of economic restrictions imposed on my country..
I forget when was the last time I bought an HM magazine.

 

[JaxMan]

Actually...
We have exchanged enough with Zorlun to think he will not be offended, I don't know about your reaction, but here I come playing "smartass" :-D

You are both at light years of distance from reality, Serpieri is Italian, and the design of Druuna has less than zero to do with "native American", whether with that is meant one of the tribes of North American, Indians from Amazonia, pre-Colombian central America populations... Although apparently she was very popular in USA (did not know, honestly).

The inspiration for Druuna came from a volouptous (that, yes) unknown Italian woman taking a swim naked (which most probably means illegally, hush hush , I don't think at that time there would have been a nudist beach in Ostia, which is close to Rome), and Valérie Kaprisky, a French actress (so much that I remember a V4 character which was Druuna but also Valérie Kaprisky), though at the same time, if I remember correctly, Valérie Kaprisky was beautiful but was less curvy than Druuna. (Edit, just checked again, and I remembered well, definitively attractive, but way less curvy than Druuna)

One thing that can console both of you, is a reference to temperament like the Brazilian, but honestly, I suspect Serpieri was a bit biased by stereotypes in Italy, otherwise he would have known there are also other countries were women can be quite warm in a certain type of contexts ;-).

Here you have it from Serpieri himself, no need to believe me

You must be registered to see the links

Thank you that link. Good stuff!

 

[xapican]

I personaly like Milo Manara more then Serpieri, Although Druuna was chefkiss

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[blacklight47]

Sorry for going out of topic people (shame on me ^^ )... I'm just a big fan of Druuna. ^^

i always liked Paolo Serpieri stories and art work because he was not afraid to put anything on page from Mutant Futa SS solders to space horror and post post apocalyptic settings.

 

[doccop63]

Kids here be like:

Druuna? Serpieri? Corben? HM?
Wtf is that..?

IKR?? It's like you're speaking a foreign language that Google can't translate.

 

[ouch2020]

Interesting read... thanks. I never take open and thoughtful counter points in any manner other than how they were delivered .
Serieri has long been one of my biggest artistic inspirations, along with the early works of Richard Corben and David Cho. With Serieri's portrayal of Druuna being as close as possible to what I considered the ideal woman should look like.

BTW I do remember that V4 version quite well (iirc she was free, named Bruuna, even came with her own hair) it's a shame that model never got upgraded.

Well, I have basically not used it since, but I can assure you it can be converted to G8, I had done it - not manually, using a couple of tools for the character and the textures, and an Iray converter for the textures.

 

[ouch2020]

So, yeah, I'm right. ^^

Ehm, you two were discussing the original inspiration for Druuna, so... no you are not :-D, since if you look at the interview, Serpieri was very specific and explicit about the original inspiration, independently from how then over time her look changed/adapted.
Don't be a Parisian :-D, or as they would say in Lyon, a "capitaliste" :-D (hi hi hi, this is an evil Frenchy joke, done in English).

Though the original inspiration is not suprising, don't forget Serpieri is Italian, is not exactly a little boy, and the Italian beauty reference for a long period was the kind of Silvana Mangano (he is old enough to use that), then Sofia Loren.
Not exactly the skinny type, Myriam would be in good company ;-), if you look at these pictures courtesy of the web (and think in her picture of a beauty pageant, Sofia Loren was only 15, she grew still some more after, "growing" ;-)) - so, not surprising the first inspiration was a very curvy (but nasty me suspect the fact was also very naked, and coming out of water in a kind of 007 scene, helped fix her in memory ;-)) Italian woman.



About the reference to Valérie Kaprisky, also not surprising, she was considered a sex symbol in Italy (though at least as far as I remember she could also act), and Zorlun, French women were for a long time considered more "liberal" (or less hypocrite, points of view) than Italian women in Italy - though that "liberal" must be considered in a positive way - so, not strange either her sensuality could have inspired him.

What is true, is that in some strips he has given her a bit of darker complexion, and has pute her in a variety of contexts, but is the same as Myriam, you cannot be too precise on a fantasy thing (and don't forget he is drawing her, not using a fixed DAZ asset, and even you yourself changed a bit Myriam and Kathrine over time), and you cannot use "native" as a precise etnographic indication.
He is an Italian artist, not an etnographer, the refences to brazilian, to "native" in your French text, all point just to the same thing (though requires knowing enough the culture of the country) - fixed images that could be called stereotypes, but in this case I am sure in his mind are considered positive, about women from certain part of the World - again, it is not a scientific paper, cannot be analysed with Cartesian approach, just appreciated (or not) and liked (or not) as it is.

Though I admit I am very surprised to see how diffused and popular was in many countries, I knew Druuna, but to me it always was a very Italian thing, exaclty also starting from the look.

 

[ouch2020]

I personaly like Milo Manara more then Serpieri, Although Druuna was chefkiss

Different styles and type, for me they are kind of complementary.

Manara is more "artsy" and soft as drawing, there are stories, but some are more flimsy, and while there are some connected, many are completely indipendent, and their setting is more somehow contemporary, and his characters vary.

Serpieri with Druuna is somehow more harsh (though her body is soft :-D), and most of the stories I saw of her are set in that post-apocalypse universe (which at the same time goes well with the harshness), and Druuna could be IMHO described as a thoughened survivor, although not without a sense of fairness and even showing a sense of charity in some situations.

 

[Zorlun]

Ehm, you two were discussing the original inspiration for Druuna, so... no you are not :-D, since if you look at the interview, Serpieri was very specific and explicit about the original inspiration, independently from how then over time her look changed/adapted.

No, I wasn't talking about the origin as genesis, I was talking about Druuna's origin as phenotype.

But let's get passed this before it ends into debates having nothing to do about Project Myriam.

The point is that like it was said in the first message talking about Druuna, yes, they do have a few similarities and she was definitely in my head when I started the game, I thought for a time into going for more of a fantastic setting, the 'weird events' are kind of an ersatz of it.
Having an heroine going through some erotica/fantastic adventures like this is definitely in the cards for the next game.