Orgitas
Engaged Member
- Jan 5, 2023
- 2,115
- 6,918
Not your right to tell a person how to spend their money. But it sure is your right to say they are idiots for doing it. After all, a fool and their money are easily parted.
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
I have more hope for milfy city release than this game right now, never thought I would say that.
armond
Well-Known Member
- Apr 26, 2020
- 1,930
- 6,740
Yeah and yet this is not what it's about. You have been told a thousand times it's not about you spending your money, how you have any given how you think is a miracle in the first place, yet you keep bringing it up, using the same strawman over and over and over. This is about the developer not delivering anything at all, while pretending he's sick, and not even taking the pain to hide that he is not and he's just playing his subscribers for chumps, like posting about how he is playing Final Fantasy twice on Twitter. And you know damn well he is ripping people off, and, you even admitted it. So you are just a troll. You're so obviously trolling, that I think you just like to rile people off (i've encountered people who do that in real life).
Dude you are denser than a concrete slab holy fuck. Is this an attempt to test the limits of stupidity? Because your post is so dumb it's forcing me to defend fucking PaxHadrian, Alorth and SirD. God knows how much I don't want to do that.
Yet here we are. You should really take a look at how websites like Patreon and Subscribestar work. Because when you find out that they are different from places like GoFundMe it's really gonna blow your mind. No Patreon creator is forced to deliver content. Period. It's a subscription based model that operates under the assumption that you are donating funds to your favorite creators in hopes they can deliver their product. You are literally donating money NOT trading it for a product or service. THEY DON'T OWE YOU SHIT in exchange for the money you give them. You can argue with Patreon and ask for a refund if the content breaks any rules or if they aren't delivering on a specific tier reward. Outside from that you don't get shit. If you do not have the brain processing power to understand this basic notion I highly suggest you refrain from passing judgement or suggest someone is "trolling".
In short, no they aren't deceiving their patrons. No they don't owe you any content at all. And fucking good on them for consistently taking advantage of dumb people who don't turn off their subscriptions or make them earn the money.
Bombmaster
Well-Known Member
- May 8, 2022
- 1,360
- 2,179
You're so pathetic you almost don't deserve the time of a response, but here it goes.
Clearly
"If you do not have the brain processing power to understand this basic notion I highly suggest you refrain from passing judgement or suggest someone is "trolling". "
I do have the brain power just fine thanks. That is why I can tell that his excuses like "poor health" are just BS. As for your so-called "argument" that they don't owe anybody anything, it's so dishonest the only valid response would be physical. Literally every creator has those tiers where they promise to deliver something, depending on the price. There is an implied promise there. Not to mention that the shtick is always "if i get enough suppoters I will build a better PC, add animations, start doing this full time". Sir D is honoring nothing.
Sir D is milking suckers , that much we agree on. In fact, people like you who actually praise crooks are a dime dozen. Not sure why, I've never been able to understand this mentality. Unless you're him or just Hadrian whatshisname, i don't see the point in defending him. Maybe it's that "gee I wish I could fool people like this but I can't, so I'll try to get some satisfaction by praising others who can".
Freedom of speech and action -I really like your answer, it is trully valid and all. I have no right to tell others how to spend their money, but i actually have. It is freedom of speech and action. I dont care what others think, or do. If because of such actions, like from my idea, games will die, then so be it. Market hates void and people will handle it. I just want dev to be punished somehow. That maybe wakes him up (and maybe not). I dont care if this game, or his supporters, will get bit on the way (of course I'd prefer them not to, but...it is what it is).
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It's a wonderful Western concept as we both know this is not valid in, let's say: Russia and China.
You Do have Freedom in speech and action.
You Do Not have freedom from consequence - which is how life works.
You are trying to make a stand, on a pirate forum - F95, using what many would consider a self-centered and narcissistic approach to what I suspect is much more than just this thread.
You are trying to engage in debates with others while spouting: I dont care what others think, or do.
My attempt to engage in genuine discourse has been met with the above.
The only appropriate response is to put you on ignore.
- Apr 21, 2017
- 283
- 450
Ah yes. The Patreon system. Which greatly incendivises milking. Instead of a monthly game update, a supporter may receive :
a game progress report ; non-canon wallpapers ; access to Discord. Whoever supporter accepts this as a fair trade-off to an actual game update--good luck to them.
It's bad enough to receive "cake batter" instead of an actual cake (in this case a completed VN). Sure, there are very good practical reasons for this state of things. But it's very much a scam, this Patreon system. With potential censorship added in!
Supporters are misguided and lazy, yes. But not necessarily very dumb.
Look we are on the same side here. The only difference is I've been doing this song and dance for years. I'm no longer mad. The devs milk because there are people who are careless, lazy or dumb enough to let themselves get milked.
I don't give Patreon a single cent but I do support creators on SS. My approach is simple. I sub for the month they drop the update in. Then I let the sub get cancelled because I only use single purchase cards.
If every Patron was like me I assure you, updates would be dropping every 2/3 months or the games would just disappear. No milking possible.
I'm past hating on devs and calling them scammers. If I could collect a paycheck every month for no work submitted, I wouldn't say no.
The real problem here is the entitlement and the ignorance. People do not seem to understand the nature of Patreon so they start to believe they are owed something. Which they just aren't. And the worst part? The overwhelming majority of the loudest complainers here has never given a cent to any dev, ever. That makes me angrier that any milking dev. So I will call them out on it.
Illicit?!?! Misinform?!?!
It's absolutely tragic that you took the time to do your research and still remain clueless about the Patreon system. You literally posted Patreon saying they are not responsible, do not police or enforce the content posted and whether or not it meets the patrons expectations and somehow you still refuse to internalize the message.
How can you claim what they are doing is illicit when they literally comply with the sites requirements. As long as they post an update or a render every year they will be fine. There is already hours worth of Radiant content behind the paywall.
I can't be any more clear than I already have. Think of it as charity. As a donation you give to support a cause. You are NOT OWED ANYTHING IN RETURN. That is the Patreon system. There are no requirements. They don't have to put up new content within a certain timeframe. They are doing nothing wrong. The people who keep supporting them do so because they want to or because they are too lazy to cancel their subscription.
Bombmaster
Well-Known Member
- May 8, 2022
- 1,360
- 2,179
- Apr 21, 2017
- 283
- 450
I support a game 1 update at a time via Buymeacoffee. So we very much agree there.
But Devs acting like scumbags, especially to their supporters, I will never-ever in the least bit agree.
As far as hardcore pirates, I am very willing to cut them some slack. There is far too much porn chasing too little money. Once a person becomes obsessed, very few people can pay for it all.
Entitlement? Sure, that is prevalent here but another way to look at it is people have few good outlets for venting their frustrations about IRL stuff--so vent away. I personally have never placed anyone on "ignore".
A huge problem is that too many people see Devs as their friends. They ain't. It's just business for most Devs which is fine. But if the middle-men (such as Patreon) look out exclusively for their own best interests, and Devs do likewise at least in the short term, then it's well and good if each player behaves in the same way.
So if it is fraudulent why don't You and your Milker Confab start a class action lawsuit and see how far you progress. It's easy to spew verbale vomit, but if what you say is true. If in fact you pay ANYTHING to have standing then by all means let the games begin. If not you have no voice as being nothing more that a hypocrite shill.
Badjourasmix
Conversation Conqueror
- Sep 22, 2017
- 7,384
- 16,663
I just want them to release more than 1 full update per year. I don't think that is asking much.
- Aug 30, 2017
- 1,588
- 4,296
Renonymous
Newbie
- Jul 17, 2018
- 66
- 655
Patreon isn't a contract of work. If you ever doubt that, try contacting patreon CS to get a refund on the grounds of an artist not fulfilling a promise. They'll tell you to take it up with the artist, or deal with it. Patreon is a place where you can donate to artists to support them. Artists might set goals, incentivize donations, or even have shops for their existing content, but in the end, you're donating to artists because you like their stuff, and you're very much free to stop as soon as you stop liking what your support gets you.
Bonus reason you shouldn't bitch or expect shit from an artist: these are artists who either work alone or have loose partnerships with other artists; they're not organizations with product owners who define and schedule their work, project managers who get them unblocked or keep them on schedule, and QA who keep them out of the trenches. Some artists are naturally good at wearing many hats, planning and managing their resources, and somehow still staying inspired enough to create something original on top of that. The overwhelming majority of artists are not good at these things and will never deliver a finished product of the quality they wish. Some just straight up burn out or spiral into dry spells of creativity.
If you want to vent that you donated x money to support a project that fizzled out, I feel for ya. But it's absolutely pathetic how many people on a goddamned piracy site act like they're entitled to complete works of art, or that everyone who fails to perform is out to scam them.
Bonus reason you shouldn't bitch or expect shit from an artist: these are artists who either work alone or have loose partnerships with other artists; they're not organizations with product owners who define and schedule their work, project managers who get them unblocked or keep them on schedule, and QA who keep them out of the trenches. Some artists are naturally good at wearing many hats, planning and managing their resources, and somehow still staying inspired enough to create something original on top of that. The overwhelming majority of artists are not good at these things and will never deliver a finished product of the quality they wish. Some just straight up burn out or spiral into dry spells of creativity.
If you want to vent that you donated x money to support a project that fizzled out, I feel for ya. But it's absolutely pathetic how many people on a goddamned piracy site act like they're entitled to complete works of art, or that everyone who fails to perform is out to scam them.
Badjourasmix
Conversation Conqueror
- Sep 22, 2017
- 7,384
- 16,663
I don't think patreon would do anything, because the only promise they made is that they would work on the game. They never established any kind of release schedule or something like that.
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hope developer get the memo ♪I really like your answer, it is trully valid and all. I have no right to tell others how to spend their money, but i actually have. It is freedom of speech and action. I dont care what others think, or do. If because of such actions, like from my idea, games will die, then so be it. Market hates void and people will handle it. I just want dev to be punished somehow. That maybe wakes him up (and maybe not). I dont care if this game, or his supporters, will get bit on the way (of course I'd prefer them not to, but...it is what it is).
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Meh, other people want to give money to a dev that spends more time playing video games than developing, and constantly misses release dates, that's their prerogative.
I love the game, just wish it was in the hands of someone that cared...but because it's not, I don't/won't give money for it. That's what makes places like f95 so wonderful.
I love the game, just wish it was in the hands of someone that cared...but because it's not, I don't/won't give money for it. That's what makes places like f95 so wonderful.