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Axismundi

Member
Jul 14, 2018
348
794
I could hypothetically see a non-consensual encounter with a different person, but I wouldn't particularly want to write it and Patreon would slap me very, very hard for anything that close to rape.
I actually miss the original rape event in the original upload. It was dark and actually had my stomach in knots. I still believe it was the most compelling and interesting route start out of all available routes, even up to today. It's sad that Patron can't let anyone write interesting stories without being assholes about it.
 

Viking118

New Member
Feb 20, 2021
4
5
I have been running into an issue with getting the game to run...I feel confident I saying that the issue is on my side and i was just wanting to see if anyone had any ideas on what is causing it and/or how to fix it.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
File "renpy/bootstrap.py", line 277, in bootstrap
renpy.main.main()
File "renpy/main.py", line 558, in main
renpy.game.context().run(node)
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "renpy/ast.py", line 1131, in execute
renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
File "renpy/python.py", line 1061, in py_exec_bytecode
exec(bytecode, globals, locals)
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

Windows-10-10.0.19041 AMD64
Ren'Py 7.5.3.22090809
re:dreamer 0.12.0
Thu Dec 15 00:57:50 2022
 
Last edited:

DreamTeamStudio

Member
Game Developer
May 29, 2022
125
174
I have been running into an issue with getting the game to run...I feel confident I saying that the issue is on my side and i was just wanting to see if anyone had any ideas on what is causing it and/or how to fix it.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
File "renpy/bootstrap.py", line 277, in bootstrap
renpy.main.main()
File "renpy/main.py", line 558, in main
renpy.game.context().run(node)
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "renpy/ast.py", line 1131, in execute
renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
File "renpy/python.py", line 1061, in py_exec_bytecode
exec(bytecode, globals, locals)
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

Windows-10-10.0.19041 AMD64
Ren'Py 7.5.3.22090809
re:dreamer 0.12.0
Thu Dec 15 00:57:50 2022
Can you go into "C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\RenPy" and delete the reDreamer folders and see if that fixes anything?
Also, one other user has reported this possibly being related to AMD drivers.
 

DreamTeamStudio

Member
Game Developer
May 29, 2022
125
174
I have been running into an issue with getting the game to run...I feel confident I saying that the issue is on my side and i was just wanting to see if anyone had any ideas on what is causing it and/or how to fix it.

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
File "renpy/bootstrap.py", line 277, in bootstrap
renpy.main.main()
File "renpy/main.py", line 558, in main
renpy.game.context().run(node)
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "options.rpyc", line 96, in script
File "renpy/ast.py", line 1131, in execute
renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
File "renpy/python.py", line 1061, in py_exec_bytecode
exec(bytecode, globals, locals)
File "game/options.rpy", line 97, in <module>
NameError: name 'bgm_voyager' is not defined

Windows-10-10.0.19041 AMD64
Ren'Py 7.5.3.22090809
re:dreamer 0.12.0
Thu Dec 15 00:57:50 2022
It 100% is a caching issue. Some data from an old version of the game is being read from... somewhere, and it is interfering with the current version.
You likely have to delete your old saves as well, but the jump menu (which should be unlocked) can rebuild them with the proper variables to get you to where you need to go. If that doesn't work, try running the game out of the Ren'Py SDK (RD is on Ren'Py for 0.13.0 and beyond and Ren'Py 7 for before that).
This is also worth checking
 

Asenaris

Conversation Conqueror
Aug 31, 2018
6,429
24,477
Re-Dreamer [0.13.2] Compressed (UnTested)

Win (1.55 GB/ 393 MB) :
Thanks megalol
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Last edited:

LexiKnight

New Member
Dec 25, 2017
14
28
I haven't played through the new version completely yet, but I wanted to comment that the writing seems much improved from when I last played (almost a year ago). That's not saying the writing was bad, but it was a lot less effective in making characters likable, and in making the romance paths actually romantic.

The problem that I had with the version of the story from a year ago is that Z is written as an "Unreliable narrator", yet most of what the reader was shown of Britney and Keisuke's character came from Z just saying so in narration. In the old version, both of the love interests were people I would want to be as far away from as possible if they were judged just by what they said and did and not by how the unreliable narrator says she feels. Keisuke on the old rape path should have gotten a "stay out of my life forever" at the very best.

Ryouichi actually seemed like the best love-interest option in the older version.

Probably the reason that I didn't come back to the game for a year is that it seems to be focussed on monogamy and romance with either Keisuke or Britney, but I think I would have cut things off with either of them and never spoken to them again by like day 2. Maybe friends with benefits depending on the path, but they both gave me the feeling that getting close to either of them would be trouble (especially K — I wouldn't want to be alone and unarmed around him at all).



The newer writing works well for me. Keisuke is shown to actually care, and there is a LOT more done to develop his character beforehand. I can't really experience things like a sub does or think like they think, but I can think like a Dom and I have a way easier time empathizing with K now even on his "hard" route. I get what Zoey sees in him now. In the older version of that route I really felt like a third person in the scene who should be protecting Zoey from Keisuke.

I haven't played anything to completion, but I'm going down the path where Zoey is more assertive and direct with K now, and that's one where I keel like K could be more than a himbo/sex-toy. I could see monogamy and romance on that path.

Just looking at them, Britney would be my first choice, and in her initial meeting she is definitely fuckable, but seems pretty shallow. I've only played to where Zoey and Brit commit to being girlfriends, but at that point in the game there isn't any depth to the relationship, so I just haven't prioritized the path.

I'd kinda rather see Zoey have multiple partners, but part of that is that it's easier to write casual sex than monogamy.




And for a total nitpick: at the start of the game, when you pick the "Mom?" option for the best friend, the narration says that Zach's mom's ringtone is "New Age", but the song that plays is "New Wave". "New Age" was music with an otherworldly, dreamlike feel, like you'd hear in new age bookstores. Think "Enya", "Loreena McKennit", or "Tangerine Dream". "New Wave" was a pop descendent of punk, usually with more synthesizers, and is mostly what people think of as '80s music now. They are just really, really different things and totally unrelated (though I guess there are arguments for Siouxsie and the Banshees being both). It seems wierdly imprecise for Z.
 
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DreamTeamStudio

Member
Game Developer
May 29, 2022
125
174
I haven't played through the new version completely yet, but I wanted to comment that the writing seems much improved from when I last played (almost a year ago). That's not saying the writing was bad, but it was a lot less effective in making characters likable, and in making the romance paths actually romantic.

The problem that I had with the version of the story from a year ago is that Z is written as an "Unreliable narrator", yet most of what the reader was shown of Britney and Keisuke's character came from Z just saying so in narration. In the old version, both of the love interests were people I would want to be as far away from as possible if they were judged just by what they said and did and not by how the unreliable narrator says she feels. Keisuke on the old rape path should have gotten a "stay out of my life forever" at the very best.

Ryouichi actually seemed like the best love-interest option in the older version.

Probably the reason that I didn't come back to the game for a year is that it seems to be focussed on monogamy and romance with either Keisuke or Britney, but I think I would have cut things off with either of them and never spoken to them again by like day 2. Maybe friends with benefits depending on the path, but they both gave me the feeling that getting close to either of them would be trouble (especially K — I wouldn't want to be alone and unarmed around him at all).



The newer writing works well for me. Keisuke is shown to actually care, and there is a LOT more done to develop his character beforehand. I can't really experience things like a sub does or think like they think, but I can think like a Dom and I have a way easier time empathizing with K now even on his "hard" route. I get what Zoey sees in him now. In the older version of that route I really felt like a third person in the scene who should be protecting Zoey from Keisuke.

I haven't played anything to completion, but I'm going down the path where Zoey is more assertive and direct with K now, and that's one where I keel like K could be more than a himbo/sex-toy. I could see monogamy and romance on that path.

Just looking at them, Britney would be my first choice, and in her initial meeting she is definitely fuckable, but seems pretty shallow. I've only played to where Zoey and Brit commit to being girlfriends, but at that point in the game there isn't any depth to the relationship, so I just haven't prioritized the path.

I'd kinda rather see Zoey have multiple partners, but part of that is that it's easier to write casual sex than monogamy.




And for a total nitpick: at the start of the game, when you pick the "Mom?" option for the best friend, the narration says that Zach's mom's ringtone is "New Age", but the song that plays is "New Wave". "New Age" was music with an otherworldly, dreamlike feel, like you'd hear in new age bookstores. Think "Enya", "Loreena McKennit", or "Tangerine Dream". "New Wave" was a pop descendent of punk, usually with more synthesizers, and is mostly what people think of as '80s music now. They are just really, really different things and totally unrelated (though I guess there are arguments for Siouxsie and the Banshees being both). It seems wierdly imprecise for Z.
I'm glad you had a better time with the new writing. Keisuke in particular got polished up a lot in 0.12.0 to give him more depth and to show that there's a reason Zach places him in such high esteem (despite being a himbo). There are multiple reasons why that scene happened (and the dubious/coerced consent bit still happens), but

Britney has way more depth than Keisuke does, but Zach hasn't known her for as long despite her and Zach being besties for about a year and a half of high school, and Zach puts her on a different type of pedestal than the one he puts Keisuke on because of his crush on her and he is ultimately the narrator of the game. She's a bit of a bitch at the start, but it's more that she feels like she's being used after being contacted out of the blue by a friend from a time in her life were things felt more "normal" (and something else which the coming 0.13.1 update covers).

Britney has not gotten as much outlining as Keisuke has (seriously, Keisuke was constructed around Zach which is why that pairing works so well at times, and did I mention ), but she's a more dynamic character than Keisuke and the plan for her route focuses on her character development (particularly on reconciling her faith with her sexuality) in greater detail than Keisuke's route focuses on Keisuke's growth as a person (as that's more the "Keisuke and Zoey" route).

There is a planned "split" route between Keisuke and Britney where Zach wakes up from his dream, Ai tells him he can't register a friend, and Zach still contacts Keisuke and Britney for help with re:/Dreamer but never tells them exactly what happened to him.

It should be interesting as Zach has lied to both about the other. Neither has met the other, but Keisuke was told Britney is this beautiful but very dorky and emotional unstable young woman... with a crush on him, who Zach turned down because he doesn't want the type of drama that dating a girl like that would bring into his life; conversely, Zach has told Britney that Keisuke is this borderline Neanderthal jock who's a heartbreaking womanizer and was so inept as a kid that Zach had to keep bailing him out of trouble.


That "New Age" mistake is 100% on me. Remain in Light is one of my favorite albums and I've been listening to Talking Heads since I was 6 (and the ringtone for Zach's mom is the first few seconds of and my loose headcanon for the song for the first dance at her wedding), but I totally blanked on the name of the genre.
 
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Sewyoba

Member
Jul 22, 2018
403
330
It feels like developer is walking in circles. Game's not finished yet, but it's been rewritten for how many times now, lol?

I think quality improves with rewrites, it was high quality even before that, but also it doesn't click together. Say, Kurohime cat stuff - you'd think in a smut game it would have been a lewd childhood secret or something, I dunno, Zach shamefully popping a boner on Keisuke or something like that, maybe some kid stuff that grown-up people pretend never happened, so that it neatly ties back together with Zach's trans problems; instead you get a tentacle of writing that goes off into distance away from the core writing and ideas, just more "lore" instead of active story.
 

Kira77

Member
Jun 2, 2017
237
305
I actually miss the original rape event in the original upload. It was dark and actually had my stomach in knots. I still believe it was the most compelling and interesting route start out of all available routes, even up to today. It's sad that Patron can't let anyone write interesting stories without being assholes about it.
That's gone now? I think it was my favorite route and thought it was the whole point of the control-stat. Dev could've moved the game away from patreon and keep the rape in, kinda sad about this.
 

DreamTeamStudio

Member
Game Developer
May 29, 2022
125
174
It feels like developer is walking in circles. Game's not finished yet, but it's been rewritten for how many times now, lol?

I think quality improves with rewrites, it was high quality even before that, but also it doesn't click together. Say, Kurohime cat stuff - you'd think in a smut game it would have been a lewd childhood secret or something, I dunno, Zach shamefully popping a boner on Keisuke or something like that, maybe some kid stuff that grown-up people pretend never happened, so that it neatly ties back together with Zach's trans problems; instead you get a tentacle of writing that goes off into distance away from the core writing and ideas, just more "lore" instead of active story.
It's been rewritten twice now, although only the first one was major. I largely consider the first 8 months of development of re:/Dreamer a wash as I was still getting my bearings with the scope of the game. I am still somewhat getting those bearings, but mostly, it's figuring out that I am at the point where the scope of this game is so large that I have to outline things properly. That "lore" is a guideline to keep myself on the rails, to keep things consistent, and to give a reminder of the scope of the game; plus, a lot of readers have expressed distaste for the verbosity of the visual novel and the extra-diegetic optional content of what is essentially an encylopadia is a good compromise for that detail and things being explained via exposition.
It is correct to say that re:/Dreamer has become less of a porn game and more of an adult game centered around a porn game. You could argue that I am trying to have my cake (excessively detailed worldbuilding, introspection, character depth, and backstories) and eat it too (pornographic gender bender visual novel with great art), but as an earlier post explains, getting that great art is a slow process and I can't pause development on this game as it's my full-time job and (besides the porn addiction!) that could descend on me at any moment and prevent me from finishing this game, so I need to keep writing or risk never getting this game finished.
This skews the content toward text instead of art, and the "experiments" I have done with erotic content without CGs was received with mixed to negative reception.
I do appreciate that one specific example (regardless of how weird it would be to write about a kid getting a boner; just because I am writing an excessively detailed town as I was inspired by Stephen King's It doesn't mean I have to copy the uncomfortably sexual content about kids from that book). It shows that you do get that this game deals with Zach's overall issues with self-identity (mostly focused on his gender identity).

That's gone now? I think it was my favorite route and thought it was the whole point of the control-stat. Dev could've moved the game away from patreon and keep the rape in, kinda sad about this.
but I'm going to be honest: the writing was bad outside of the shock value and one or two specific lines.
Moving away from Patreon isn't viable monetarily. No other platform gets even close to the revenue from that website and a one-time crowdfund like Kickstarter isn't going to work given the timescale of 5 years until I would consider this game complete.
Rich is getting sprites eventually™ and his route is planned for darker content of dubious/coerced sex and slow gaslighting of Zach into Zoey. That will probably be more up your alley.
 

LexiKnight

New Member
Dec 25, 2017
14
28
I'm glad you had a better time with the new writing. Keisuke in particular got polished up a lot in 0.12.0 to give him more depth and to show that there's a reason Zach places him in such high esteem (despite being a himbo). There are multiple reasons why that scene happened (and the dubious/coerced consent bit still happens), but

Britney has way more depth than Keisuke does, but Zach hasn't known her for as long despite her and Zach being besties for about a year and a half of high school, and Zach puts her on a different type of pedestal than the one he puts Keisuke on because of his crush on her and he is ultimately the narrator of the game. She's a bit of a bitch at the start, but it's more that she feels like she's being used after being contacted out of the blue by a friend from a time in her life were things felt more "normal" (and something else which the coming 0.13.1 update covers).
When I said Britney was "shallow" I didn't mean she's "uncomplicated" or that she's not well-thought-out as a character, but that she is focussed intensely on image. Most of her character beats revolve around how much she is controlled by that images that her parents or society want to fit. It's her highest value.

Aside from her need to fit a certain image, her superficiality is expressed in other ways as well. All of her compliments and gifts are based on appearance, she has a complete lack of empathy for any character (except possibly Z), she can't read red flags so obvious that Zach sees the (with Z's Mom and with Chet;"word of god" in the narration is that Britney is good at reading people, but the examples on the story are the opposite), her activities to rebel from her parents are all about being seen (cosplay, acting), she abuses her "hot chick privilege" constantly, doesn't even mention the name of her only friend at college or of the girl she kissed at the party, makes a show of being Catholic without seeming to get any philosophy or meaning from it, uses her church to further her aims but again seems to get no deeper value from it, etc.

I get all of that, because it hammers the importance of keeping up appearances with Z. Even her story about Chet, which Z sees as revealing something deeper, is just about the pressure of keeping up appearances the way she tells it.

Britney is a fun character, I want to like her, and there are a lot of moments where I identify with her, but her path is like Keisuke's old one in that she does things that are pretty hard to stomach before showing off that she's got something worth persevering for. Her path reads like a divorce, where I can see why there is attraction, but also why the relationship can't work.

I won't be following her path past her leveraging Z to help her with drama club, but before that point she's written as very shallow. Helping Z is the only clearly selfless thing she's done at that point, and by using that as leverage she loses what makes her worth taking a chance on.

Around the arcade scene, I really stop seeing any of Britney's bitchiness as cute or forgivable, so I'm just seeing things that Britney should apologize for if she wants a second date.

To be fair, the arcade scene might just toque my gears for meta reasons. It makes me Kirk out, because it's a Kobayashi Maru test. I don't believe in no win scenarios, and it's the player that is put in that situation rather than Z, so I take it personally. That scene is the reason I walked away from the game for a year.

Ironically, the way Britney dealt with her "Kobayahi Maru" test with Chet (finding a "hack" to make it winnable) is one of the things about her character which I can identify with. I've been there, and I don't think the type of person who just accepts that 'some things can't be won' can survive those situations. It's not that I don't understand it — I don't want to be the type of person who understands it.

((Not trying to kink shame, or degrade anyone who does like no win scenarios. Unless they'd want me to degrade them.))

I'm self-aware enough that if I were Zoey I'd probably try to find a way to end the date gracefully after the arcade. I'd let Britney know that it's not her fault, but those games made me feel powerless, and I've lost so much that I just can't handle another loss. I'd let her know that she's been the best thing to happen to me, but that I feel too emotionally wrecked to be a good girlfriend for her, so I'd like to put the date on pause. I'd still go buy the skirt as promised, and buy clothes because I NEED to get some certainty in my future. I'd feel like I'd just be poisonous if I continued the date though.

I can understand not getting all those thought together before the restaurant, and I know that Z doesn't feel the same way even when I set her CHEATS as close to what I think mine would be as possible (544145), but Britney is a total dick at the restaurant, she treats bit characters who don't matter as if they are bit people who don't matter, she keeps calling Z an "idiot" (which no one who wants a girlfriend does to their girlfriend, it's not cute), she doesn't understand how blessed she is that Z called her for help, she doesn't seem to realize how much Z has grown as a person in the last two days, she doesn't treat Z the way Brritney herself would want to be treated... yuck.

It's all understandable behavior, but it feels like I'm reading why they ended up divorced.

A lot of it comes off cute earlier in the relationship, but it needed to stop at some point.

Like with the old Keisuke path, there isn't enough to give Britney depth or make her a desirable partner before she uses her help as leverage. At that point, I'm wanting her to sweeten up a little and show me why she's a pineapple and not a pinecone. I might not blow up the relationship, but I'd ask to put aside the fact the fact that she's trying to blackmail me and talk about the relationship first.

The dumb thing is that at the point where I abandon her path, I would have chosen to help her with drama just because she asked, but that option isn't available. Instead Britney has to show off that all of her help has a price, and she demands payment. Just helping when asked would be consistent to all of 544145 Zoey's internal monologue and actions on the date too, because she is pretty empathetic and would want to spend more time with Britney.




I said Britney was "shallow" before because I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about the character and her path, the only constant is that she is superficial. I'd rather puzzle out why the path is not working for me so I could offer constructive criticism, but I don't know all of it exactly.

The part of the Gender Bender genre which works least for me is the loss of power or loss of control, so I usually apply congnitive empathy to those parts and turn my affective empathy off, or I just don't even bother trying to empathize and just file it away as "not my kink" and try to make the choices that avoid it most. The Kobayashi Maru test gets me though because it's given to the player rather than the character, so that's me having to suffer through the no win scenario instead of Zoey. After that I'm not sure I can reengage my empathy the right way to enjoy the path.


There is a planned "split" route between Keisuke and Britney where Zach wakes up from his dream, Ai tells him he can't register a friend, and Zach still contacts Keisuke and Britney for help with re:/Dreamer but never tells them exactly what happened to him.

It should be interesting as Zach has lied to both about the other. Neither has met the other, but Keisuke was told Britney is this beautiful but very dorky and emotional unstable young woman... with a crush on him, who Zach turned down because he doesn't want the type of drama that dating a girl like that would bring into his life; conversely, Zach has told Britney that Keisuke is this borderline Neanderthal jock who's a heartbreaking womanizer and was so inept as a kid that Zach had to keep bailing him out of trouble.


I think Britney could be fun in a less intimate relationship — she is definitely a fun girl — but I think she's too hung up on her own issues.

I can't really do the path with the dream because Zach has to submit to avoid dying to the static, AND he associates "femininity" with "weakness" and "submission" (even if he's got a high trans score and has already admitted to wanting to be a woman). I'm not going through that door when it advertises that it's something I don't like.

If it was just "call for help" I'd probably it because that's a logical part of working the problem. I'd resent taking a path that forces me to choose "submission" and "girly=weak", so I know better than to look.

As a 544145 girl, looking at women as weak should not be an option (high trans+empathy), calling for help should be an option (high empathy+control, and low awkwardness), and looking down on herself should not be an option (high self-esteem).

It's fine if some things aren't for me. I get that Z is more submissive than I am, but I'm going to focus on paths that give her a better deal. I'm not invested in the "dream" path because that choice is up front. The Britney path bugs me more because it doesn't start going downhill till midway through the date.

At this point Keisuke's path is fine to me, and I can play through the more submissive forks because I know there are other options.
 

Cgad

Newbie
Apr 28, 2018
31
45
A trend I tend to notice with these types of stories is that 90% of the time they seem to forget tomboys exist. Which admittedly this game does kinda avoid doing. But is it really that hard to make a m2f genderbending story that doesn't have mandatory sex.
 

Laughingfox

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2017
1,080
1,004
Hrm. It's interesting to watch how this has shaped over its development, and just how much sway and power patreon and public opinion packs in terms of direction. If that sounds like a carefully crafted neutral expression well.. yep, it pretty much is.

Amusingly, I should eat this up, as it absolutely has some of my favorite elements within, from gender swap schenigans to impish AI, and layered, interesting characters.. but where I should be over the moon I just sort of find it a bit too predictable and safe. Which is absolutely the wrong vibe I should be feeling.

A simple thought exercise: you are now a rediculously drop dead gorgeous, borderline parody of a anime gal. The sight of yourself in the mirror gets your motor running a myriad of ways. You manage to connect with a girl that always hoped there would be a bit something more. Thoughts of lust and need now color your everyday thoughts. And the ultimate result of all of this impossible mix of elements is to.. hide away in a little bubble, despite being 'on display' with the whole cell phone game and stat elements. (Which feels completely at odds with the concept of being in the 'game' to begin with.)

How utterly unremarkable.

I mean, 'safe' isn't a bad thing per se, especially if a lot of content is based around identity and coming to grips with personal changes and self expression. It's a pretty difficult, winding road, after all, and it's a wonderful thing if folks can help find their way, so to speak, with bits of this as a medium.

In regards to porn, it's pretty clear if I'm looking for a pansexual spicy adventure with ones BFF, the Britney route is not going to scratch the itch. (More the pity. Imagine the fun a pair of confident, cosplaying temptresses could be.) Keisuke is.. eh. He's fine. Actually, that's hardly fair, it's quite obvious a lot of love and care has gone into various rewrites regarding him. Rich and going it alone.. I find less enticing than K, of all things.

Perhaps if Rich ended up swapped around as well, leaving zoey to become the big sister of a pair of accident prone sloots, that could be fun. But that's a different story entirely, really.

I don't mean to come of negative, I find the effort and writing to be endearing. The bits with the mom are particuarly fun. Also, my sympathies for any poor soul that has to travel through the many, many circles of rewrite hell.
 

HarryHill99

Member
Dec 29, 2019
283
262
haven't played in a while, but one comment is that the flowchart.png needs to be redone at a much higher resolution or done in a vector graphics type format as the text is not readable when you have to scale it to 500-600% to see on a high resolution monitors.
 

DreamTeamStudio

Member
Game Developer
May 29, 2022
125
174
Well, F95zone email notifications broke for me apparently.

This game is nice.
Thanks!

When I said Britney was "shallow" I didn't mean she's "uncomplicated" or that she's not well-thought-out as a character, but that she is focussed intensely on image. Most of her character beats revolve around how much she is controlled by that images that her parents or society want to fit. It's her highest value.

Aside from her need to fit a certain image, her superficiality is expressed in other ways as well. All of her compliments and gifts are based on appearance, she has a complete lack of empathy for any character (except possibly Z), she can't read red flags so obvious that Zach sees the (with Z's Mom and with Chet;"word of god" in the narration is that Britney is good at reading people, but the examples on the story are the opposite), her activities to rebel from her parents are all about being seen (cosplay, acting), she abuses her "hot chick privilege" constantly, doesn't even mention the name of her only friend at college or of the girl she kissed at the party, makes a show of being Catholic without seeming to get any philosophy or meaning from it, uses her church to further her aims but again seems to get no deeper value from it, etc.

I get all of that, because it hammers the importance of keeping up appearances with Z. Even her story about Chet, which Z sees as revealing something deeper, is just about the pressure of keeping up appearances the way she tells it.

Britney is a fun character, I want to like her, and there are a lot of moments where I identify with her, but her path is like Keisuke's old one in that she does things that are pretty hard to stomach before showing off that she's got something worth persevering for. Her path reads like a divorce, where I can see why there is attraction, but also why the relationship can't work.

I won't be following her path past her leveraging Z to help her with drama club, but before that point she's written as very shallow. Helping Z is the only clearly selfless thing she's done at that point, and by using that as leverage she loses what makes her worth taking a chance on.

Around the arcade scene, I really stop seeing any of Britney's bitchiness as cute or forgivable, so I'm just seeing things that Britney should apologize for if she wants a second date.

To be fair, the arcade scene might just toque my gears for meta reasons. It makes me Kirk out, because it's a Kobayashi Maru test. I don't believe in no win scenarios, and it's the player that is put in that situation rather than Z, so I take it personally. That scene is the reason I walked away from the game for a year.

Ironically, the way Britney dealt with her "Kobayahi Maru" test with Chet (finding a "hack" to make it winnable) is one of the things about her character which I can identify with. I've been there, and I don't think the type of person who just accepts that 'some things can't be won' can survive those situations. It's not that I don't understand it — I don't want to be the type of person who understands it.

((Not trying to kink shame, or degrade anyone who does like no win scenarios. Unless they'd want me to degrade them.))

I'm self-aware enough that if I were Zoey I'd probably try to find a way to end the date gracefully after the arcade. I'd let Britney know that it's not her fault, but those games made me feel powerless, and I've lost so much that I just can't handle another loss. I'd let her know that she's been the best thing to happen to me, but that I feel too emotionally wrecked to be a good girlfriend for her, so I'd like to put the date on pause. I'd still go buy the skirt as promised, and buy clothes because I NEED to get some certainty in my future. I'd feel like I'd just be poisonous if I continued the date though.

I can understand not getting all those thought together before the restaurant, and I know that Z doesn't feel the same way even when I set her CHEATS as close to what I think mine would be as possible (544145), but Britney is a total dick at the restaurant, she treats bit characters who don't matter as if they are bit people who don't matter, she keeps calling Z an "idiot" (which no one who wants a girlfriend does to their girlfriend, it's not cute), she doesn't understand how blessed she is that Z called her for help, she doesn't seem to realize how much Z has grown as a person in the last two days, she doesn't treat Z the way Brritney herself would want to be treated... yuck.

It's all understandable behavior, but it feels like I'm reading why they ended up divorced.

A lot of it comes off cute earlier in the relationship, but it needed to stop at some point.

Like with the old Keisuke path, there isn't enough to give Britney depth or make her a desirable partner before she uses her help as leverage. At that point, I'm wanting her to sweeten up a little and show me why she's a pineapple and not a pinecone. I might not blow up the relationship, but I'd ask to put aside the fact the fact that she's trying to blackmail me and talk about the relationship first.

The dumb thing is that at the point where I abandon her path, I would have chosen to help her with drama just because she asked, but that option isn't available. Instead Britney has to show off that all of her help has a price, and she demands payment. Just helping when asked would be consistent to all of 544145 Zoey's internal monologue and actions on the date too, because she is pretty empathetic and would want to spend more time with Britney.




I said Britney was "shallow" before because I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about the character and her path, the only constant is that she is superficial. I'd rather puzzle out why the path is not working for me so I could offer constructive criticism, but I don't know all of it exactly.

The part of the Gender Bender genre which works least for me is the loss of power or loss of control, so I usually apply congnitive empathy to those parts and turn my affective empathy off, or I just don't even bother trying to empathize and just file it away as "not my kink" and try to make the choices that avoid it most. The Kobayashi Maru test gets me though because it's given to the player rather than the character, so that's me having to suffer through the no win scenario instead of Zoey. After that I'm not sure I can reengage my empathy the right way to enjoy the path.




I think Britney could be fun in a less intimate relationship — she is definitely a fun girl — but I think she's too hung up on her own issues.

I can't really do the path with the dream because Zach has to submit to avoid dying to the static, AND he associates "femininity" with "weakness" and "submission" (even if he's got a high trans score and has already admitted to wanting to be a woman). I'm not going through that door when it advertises that it's something I don't like.

If it was just "call for help" I'd probably it because that's a logical part of working the problem. I'd resent taking a path that forces me to choose "submission" and "girly=weak", so I know better than to look.

As a 544145 girl, looking at women as weak should not be an option (high trans+empathy), calling for help should be an option (high empathy+control, and low awkwardness), and looking down on herself should not be an option (high self-esteem).

It's fine if some things aren't for me. I get that Z is more submissive than I am, but I'm going to focus on paths that give her a better deal. I'm not invested in the "dream" path because that choice is up front. The Britney path bugs me more because it doesn't start going downhill till midway through the date.

At this point Keisuke's path is fine to me, and I can play through the more submissive forks because I know there are other options.
I've been thinking about this one a lot, so if nothing else, thank you a lot for putting so much thought into the post.
I think "shallow" is a good way of describing what Britney would like to be, but not necessarily who she is. At the start of this game, she want so badly to be normal, but she isn't. She's been a black sheep all her life, and her misery comes from trying to conform and often failing once put under a magnifying glass.
She's under one such magnifying glass with her parents right now, so when Zach contacts her out of the blue and wants to reconnect, she feels a great relief as she can be herself around him, and she can stop being normal.
But then Zach drops a landmine at her feet with his body (or specifically, why his body has changed) and Britney now has to work extra hard look normal, not just for herself, but for Zach. It's a great deal of stress on her, exacerbated by the fact that she feels betrayed by someone she considers her best friend and she is on her period 2 days earlier than she expected.
Due to complicated reasons she ends up in a supporting role in Keisuke's route. You might like her in that role better than in the spotlight, but I'd say to give her patience and check up on her in a few months when she's more developed.

A trend I tend to notice with these types of stories is that 90% of the time they seem to forget tomboys exist. Which admittedly this game does kinda avoid doing. But is it really that hard to make a m2f genderbending story that doesn't have mandatory sex.
Hrm. It's interesting to watch how this has shaped over its development, and just how much sway and power patreon and public opinion packs in terms of direction. If that sounds like a carefully crafted neutral expression well.. yep, it pretty much is.

Amusingly, I should eat this up, as it absolutely has some of my favorite elements within, from gender swap schenigans to impish AI, and layered, interesting characters.. but where I should be over the moon I just sort of find it a bit too predictable and safe. Which is absolutely the wrong vibe I should be feeling.

A simple thought exercise: you are now a rediculously drop dead gorgeous, borderline parody of a anime gal. The sight of yourself in the mirror gets your motor running a myriad of ways. You manage to connect with a girl that always hoped there would be a bit something more. Thoughts of lust and need now color your everyday thoughts. And the ultimate result of all of this impossible mix of elements is to.. hide away in a little bubble, despite being 'on display' with the whole cell phone game and stat elements. (Which feels completely at odds with the concept of being in the 'game' to begin with.)

How utterly unremarkable.

I mean, 'safe' isn't a bad thing per se, especially if a lot of content is based around identity and coming to grips with personal changes and self expression. It's a pretty difficult, winding road, after all, and it's a wonderful thing if folks can help find their way, so to speak, with bits of this as a medium.

In regards to porn, it's pretty clear if I'm looking for a pansexual spicy adventure with ones BFF, the Britney route is not going to scratch the itch. (More the pity. Imagine the fun a pair of confident, cosplaying temptresses could be.) Keisuke is.. eh. He's fine. Actually, that's hardly fair, it's quite obvious a lot of love and care has gone into various rewrites regarding him. Rich and going it alone.. I find less enticing than K, of all things.

Perhaps if Rich ended up swapped around as well, leaving zoey to become the big sister of a pair of accident prone sloots, that could be fun. But that's a different story entirely, really.

I don't mean to come of negative, I find the effort and writing to be endearing. The bits with the mom are particuarly fun. Also, my sympathies for any poor soul that has to travel through the many, many circles of rewrite hell.
I am not 100% sure what you mean about the "hide away in a little bubble" part, but Zach's life is over if he gets caught with a woman's body while identifying as Zach. Ai is watching him like a hawk at every moment and his memories of what happened to his body and the evidence of what did that will be erased the second he gets caught, which highly encourages secrecy and a small circle of confidants. Zach is probably a repressed bisexual, but a threesome is going to be hard to justify with the setting and the cast of characters (Britney would be appalled by a threesome or being in bed with someone who has a penis, Keisuke doesn't particularly care for that sort of thing but has done it once or twice, and Rich treats sex as a power dynamic and that becomes a lot murkier with a third person).
To make it clear for the record, re:/Dreamer isn't going to be a nukige. It's more accurate to say that re:/Dreamer isn't even a porn visual novel so much as it is an adult visual novel about a porn game that features porn.
Patreon has had some influence in putting a leash around the neck of the game (no actual rape is allowed to be depicted on-screen), but the issue is more that I only have so much art for CGs as of this moment (as this post explains).
As for being "safe"... that's debatable, but I can sort of see where you are coming from.
I also think re:/Dreamer's focus on character depth for a small cast and the detail of its setting and character backstories is its greatest asset and something I do not see much in visual novels (especially not with gender bender visual novels). I can write smut, and but my writing and game development talents are more focused on excessive attention to detail. Routinely (as in every update now), I add small touches to the game that most people do not even notice. The audio design alone punches several weight classes above this level of indie visual novel, but then there are the ways characters get positioned on screen, the animations, the music looping properly, the artwork consistency, the facial expressions, and so on.
But then when you start going into the story, that gets to another level. I have an answer for even the most asinine lore bits and have written what is essentially an optional encyclopedia for the game, but even in the game's incomplete state, Zach has more detail and depth than the vast majority of fictional characters I have ever seen and I am not even exaggerating or trying to act egotistical about this. There's simply a very fleshed-out protagonist in this game (and I don't just mean Zoey's curves!) and I feel like it is a disservice to the visual novel I could write not to explore their story.
English gender bender visual novels that are erotic romps have been done before, to the point that I almost consider them passé. re:/Dreamer is doing something quite a bit more ambitious.

haven't played in a while, but one comment is that the flowchart.png needs to be redone at a much higher resolution or done in a vector graphics type format as the text is not readable when you have to scale it to 500-600% to see on a high resolution monitors.
The flowcharts are made in diagrams.net, which downscales the massive flowchart now as it is too tall. They apparently fixed SVG export in the last year, so I'll start using that from now on, and thank you for reminding me.
 

Laughingfox

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2017
1,080
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Thank you for taking the time to reply, especially to that large a chunk of me and mine nonsense.

First off, credit is where credit is due, you *are* doing a hell of a job when it comes to in depth writing in regards to lore, writing, and the characters. There is quality there, and it shows. I played through a few times more, and I remain super impressed at how the flow and conversation varies with the array of stats, and how even little bits of conversation sometimes ripple back for a second or third helping later on. That's some fun, and I am absolutely sure --exausting writing there. It is ambitious, and what it does, it does quite well. So you have every right to toot your own horn, I should think.

..You're waiting for the 'butt', right? This is where it typically goes, after all. So let's plug one in. Ish.

You mentioned that this is not a nukige, and more of a game about the pron, rather than being in it. Fair enough. And really, and at the end of the day, this is your project, your work, so it for darned sure should be on the path you want to write, verses being coaxed or forced to.

This is a typed exchange taking place on a forum of a bunch of literally porny pirates, yo ho ho ho, so obviously there is some, uh, expectations in terms of theme. Which is made all the more confusing when the plot is layed out with what is essentially "you are being watched, and required to have sex to build up enough points for the final goal if you want to be a dude again." (Assuming the player even wants that, due to a brilliant bit of deconstruction and analysis with the AI again, depending on the stats.)

The player is being dragged, possibly kicking and screaming (depending on the stats) into this bizarre new situation. Okay, fair enough. They are allowed one friend to confide in, have this strange AI pushing them into all manner of events, and thus the ground rules are established, and we are off to the races.

Only we aren't, because zach/zoey can't (in theory) reveal who they are due to a barrage of factors. For the record, I don't understand how the hell a genius such as zach thinks the advanced AI, which has proven they have access to all of their records and activities, can't sus out they are on a illegal or cracked version. And AI also said she's locked in the same boat, so she's going to be aiding zach/zoey in the first place. Anyway, zach can rely on their friend, but pretty much *only* them. So it's monogmous activity at best, for several reasons you listed earlier. zach has the body and attributes for a nukige protagonist, but won't actually be employing them, for the most part. So here we are. Unlike her sprites, she's kinda half-assed in this regard. It's a really weird, kinda of off putting feeling that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around.

A clever game about porn that posseses consideribly little actual porn, and a great deal of other potent, strange elements.

Dev, intentional or otherwise, you have hand crafted the finest Diet Coke of the adult tf genre.

(No, not caffiene free, nothing is that cruel or evil.)

But (there it is!) it can get close! Really, depending on how one goes about it, it's also downright depressing. Our crazy high IQ protag is trapped from the start between the school and his families demands, trapped by the game, trapped by the situation where they can't actually express themselves (for a time, I see the whole theatre bit in your plan, that aught to be some glorious fun), and if and when they choose a friend, they are trapped by the emotional blackmail they may or may not heap on them.

Britney for example, elated at first she was confided in, but now "she" is angry about being involved? She chooses horny over reason, and yet after being explained what zach is trapped in, this is something she gets to use as ammuntion against zoey moving forward? Nothing is forcing her to be involved, and zach/zoey is at a crazy precarious situation. And now the only other enticing curvy character is more of a combatant, rather than an ally of sexy times. Oi.

At least zach is used to emotional blackmail from his mother, I suppose. (Again, credit where credit is due, I actually loved the 'call her' alternate route, however brief. Absolutely found myself craving more of that, porn genre or not, so that's some lovely writing there.)

Also, I get that she's (Britney) strickley a no D, card carrying lesbian and proud, (unless her parents are involved) but like.. if zach/zoey is expected to change and grow for his/her partner, shouldn't Britney consider the same?

And then there is the not choosing "choice" of whom to call.. seriously, the only way to survive trapped in her own mind is to cry and beg to be saved (deciding to finally stand their ground against the unknown only gets them killed, of course) getting boned by their own body without a single curve on it, then losing the only emotional tether and companion they had left. To be continued!

Heroes journey is all about going low just so you can go high again, but daaaaang. Brutal.

Anyway, end wall of text. It kind of goes without saying, but anybody dumping walls of nonsense the dev's direction such as this is at the very least, intrigued at the concept and story.. if a little confused by the conflicting tonal shifts. Haha. So well done!
 
3.40 star(s) 31 Votes