VN Ren'Py Realm Invader [Ep.2 P2] [Invader Gary]

[ShiroGato]

Up until Ep 02 Part 02, Realm Invader felt like a really good, borderline great, game. My biggest qualm with the game up to this point had been just the hamfisted comedy. Don't get me wrong, comedy is really hard to nail right for a large audience and I applaud the dev for trying, but sometimes the gags were too over the top or just didn't land. Perhaps another set of eyes on the script could've cut out some of this fluff for better pacing.

Ep 02 Part 02 just felt like it took one step forward, two steps back. While I enjoyed the direction of the party, the crux of the issues for me were that this update felt more like an on-rails experience where there player agency is gone for a lot of the sequences, and the other being what one reviewer wrote:

Dev can't decide if he wants to follow porn game logic or real life logic, so he does this weird milquetoast compromise.

Spoiler: Miya

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Spoiler: Cardi

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Spoiler: Grace

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Spoiler: Ashley

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Overall, the polish of the game is still there and the music absolutely slaps, but the 'brink of greatness' rating for me just got pushed back to merely 'good' after the update. Hopefully the degradation of player agency is just a hiccup so the dev could tell his story for this update.

 

[danb35]

But like why was this choice to confess or to hold it in taken out of the player's hands?

I think the answer here is "you already chose to be on her route." Likewise for Miya. Likewise, in reverse, for Ashley. Choices earlier have consequences later.

And if MC gets off with Grace, which he does, it literally isn't blueballing. We're at the end of Ep 2 and MC hasn't had intercourse yet. That IMO doesn't yet reach "slow burn."

 

[ShiroGato]

I think the answer here is "you already chose to be on her route." Likewise for Miya. Likewise, in reverse, for Ashley. Choices earlier have consequences later.

Just because you choose to be on someone's route shouldn't mean you cannot course correct or abort from a scene, and it irks me we are never really given that option. Agency is taken from the player.

IIRC the only skippable scene is

Spoiler: scene

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[TigerWolfe]

Just because you choose to be on someone's route shouldn't mean you cannot course correct or abort from a scene, and it irks me we are never really given that option. Agency is taken from the player.

IIRC the only skippable scene is

Spoiler: scene

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You're right every dev should spend the time to code in an option for you to revert your decision at any point in time. And it better be seamless and also flow within the narrative of the story.

You do realize how ridiculous you sound right? If you want infinite choice on the fly, go play a damn TTRPG, not an AVN.

 

[danb35]

Just because you choose to be on someone's route shouldn't mean you cannot course correct

I don't know about that. Certainly it's common to have a single choice lose a route for you, and sometimes those choices aren't very obvious. It's common to have off-ramps for a character's route once you're on it, but I don't know that I'd feel cheated if they aren't there--and I don't know whether that will happen in this game or not (other than Ashley, who had a specific choice to end his route).

And I'm playing with the walkthrough mod, so maybe those choices aren't as obvious otherwise. But as I see it, I'm OK with "you chose to be on her route, so you get the route."

 

[-HelloThere-]

Up until Ep 02 Part 02, Realm Invader felt like a really good, borderline great, game. My biggest qualm with the game up to this point had been just the hamfisted comedy. Don't get me wrong, comedy is really hard to nail right for a large audience and I applaud the dev for trying, but sometimes the gags were too over the top or just didn't land. Perhaps another set of eyes on the script could've cut out some of this fluff for better pacing.

Ep 02 Part 02 just felt like it took one step forward, two steps back. While I enjoyed the direction of the party, the crux of the issues for me were that this update felt more like an on-rails experience where there player agency is gone for a lot of the sequences, and the other being what one reviewer wrote:

Spoiler: Miya

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Spoiler: Cardi

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Spoiler: Grace

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Spoiler: Ashley

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Overall, the polish of the game is still there and the music absolutely slaps, but the 'brink of greatness' rating for me just got pushed back to merely 'good' after the update. Hopefully the degradation of player agency is just a hiccup so the dev could tell his story for this update.

You can ignore Ashley route right at the moment of changing sequence. I din't see any cock grab. Mb you actually put yourself there?)

 

[ShiroGato]

(other than Ashley, who had a specific choice to end his route).

I don't remember this, unless you're referring to the very beginning of whether or not you can choose/avoid to be on someone's route. I made the choice I did in anticipation there'd be an off-ramp to get off the route later.

You can ignore Ashley route right at the moment of changing sequence. I din't see any cock grab. Mb you actually put yourself there?)

Hmm, I don't see an option at the moment of changing for Ch 02. Up 02, only a choice to tell him he has a nice ass or make an excuse, neither which exclude me from the scene unfortunately. I did get certain bugs periodically throughout this update, but I suspect the scene might be locked in if you're already on the route and/or I have too many heart/points at this checkpoint.

 

[danb35]

I don't remember this

 

[ShiroGato]

View attachment 5459078

Ah, I think my game might have bugged out here cause I definitely did not get this option. In fact, I might need to replay this update again as several of the bug screens came up periodically through the update.

 

[danb35]

And my memory was a little off; I'd remembered the situation as "you're on Ashley's path by default; that's the off-ramp," but instead it's the choice to begin his route or not. If you chose "check in on Ashley," the scene immediately follows (at least to the point of him stripping; I haven't gone further). Whether there will be a future off-ramp for him or anyone else remains to be seen.

 

[ShiroGato]

And my memory was a little off; I'd remembered the situation as "you're on Ashley's path by default; that's the off-ramp," but instead it's the choice to begin his route or not. If you chose "check in on Ashley," the scene immediately follows (at least to the point of him stripping; I haven't gone further). Whether there will be a future off-ramp for him or anyone else remains to be seen.

Yeah it was definitely an issue on my end. I had a choice walkthrough mod for this latest update that I threw into the game folder when I installed the whole game and I guess it auto-selected this scene for me (this one of those exact moments where a bug screen popped up). Gonna have to replay this entire update to see what choices were taken from me lol.

 

[maxthruster]

You're right every dev should spend the time to code in an option for you to revert your decision at any point in time. And it better be seamless and also flow within the narrative of the story.

You do realize how ridiculous you sound right? If you want infinite choice on the fly, go play a damn TTRPG, not an AVN.

While I think the original complaint is a bit silly - "I wish I had an option to abort this route that I had to already actively choose to be on as soon as its first scene appears" - I don't disagree with the premise that most if not all sex scenes should have the ability to back out before they begin. Obviously, until you actually play through the full game and experience each scene you won't know exactly what to expect from a given one, but there's lots of ways in which a player previously interested in one of the LIs might be put off and want to avoid the scene. Whether that's the use of certain kinks, the buildup of behavior for the scene, or any other factors, players shouldn't be put into situations they're uncomfortable with simply because they had previously shown interest in a character who did not exhibit certain qualities.

 

[ShiroGato]

My initial playthrough of CH 02 Up 02 was soured by certain bugs that made some scenes unskippable, and a second playthrough has allayed some of my concerns regarding player agency. The dev does a good job of priming the player for Miya and Ashley's sequences and make them optionable, which was a couple of my issues first go around.

However, I still have issues with the Grace confession. As someone who wasn't fully invested in the Grace relationship, having the MC confess his love for her broke my immersion of the game.

If this was a kinetic novel, this wouldn't really be an issue as that comes with the expectation that it's the dev's story to tell.
But in a harem game like this, the MC is an avatar/extension of the player, and the choices you make and progression of relationships with LI should matter. To have the love confession non-optionable broke that unwritten contract between game and player. As if to say, hey player, this is no longer your story to choose but the dev's story to sit through. For someone who wasn't fully invested, it definitely doesn't help that this is the first love confession in the game. At the end of the day though, it's still a beautiful moment, I just wish I got to enjoy it more.

From a narrative pov, her being the first love confession might seem obvious as she's the childhood best friend, but a lot of the relationship is just from what the player is told and not necessarily what we experience. I don't know what the dev has in store for the future but I suspect the confession could have been intentionally rushed for plot purposes -- to start sowing the seeds for the harem. Her role in the story as having already established a rapport with the MC is an easy choice to be the instigator, and delaying the confession would've only complicated the harem progression.

 

[danb35]

I still have issues with the Grace confession.

I do too, but I think mine are very different from yours.

This isn't a sandbox game, where you get to decide which characters to advance, how much, and in what order. You get to decide which route(s) you're taking, but given that you're on a certain route (and leaving aside the question of whether and to what extent the game should give off-ramps to a route you're already on), the dev decides how that route goes, how and when its events happen relative to other routes and other game events, etc. So "you're on Grace's route, so this is the point in that route where you (do whatever)" doesn't bother me at all. In Eternum, you'd have had a choice to tell her or not, and "not" drops you from her route. I haven't seen a non-sandbox game yet where I have the option to "stay on her route, but don't move forward yet," nor any game at all that lets me decide the order in which events on someone's route/story happen.

My issue is that it comes completely out of left field from MC's perspective. Sure, we know Grace is in love with MC--it's obvious enough that Vineeta picked up on it, and she barely knows Grace (she didn't know that Grace even knew MC or Chloe until the swim meet). It's even more obvious to the player, because we see (some of) her thoughts. Well and good, she's wanted this for a very long time. But MC? We haven't seen a hint of his romantic interest in Grace. Sure, he's sexually attracted to her--we see that in the locker room. He likes and cares for her as a friend. But there isn't a single line of dialogue or internal monologue indicating anything in the direction of "in love." It bothers me more because I think it would have been easy to correct--while they're dancing, and Grace is reassuring MC, he can realize how much she means to him, etc.

it's still a beautiful moment

Agreed. My frustration aside, I like that they've cleared the air. "She's OK with sharing" is something I don't think fits that well, but it goes with the genre.

 

[NvNinja]

Ah, I think my game might have bugged out here cause I definitely did not get this option. In fact, I might need to replay this update again as several of the bug screens came up periodically through the update.

the walkthrough mod only works for part 1 of esisode 2. the bugs you were getting were because of the walkthrough mod and skipped almost every choice in part 2. every time it popped up a bug screen you were supposed to have a choice

 

[ShiroGato]

the bugs you were getting were because of the walkthrough mod and skipped almost every choice in part 2. every time it popped up a bug screen you were supposed to have a choice

Yeah, this was exactly my experience. I was like wtf how come I'm not prompted for some of these sequences.

 

[maxthruster]

My issue is that it comes completely out of left field from MC's perspective. Sure, we know Grace is in love with MC--it's obvious enough that Vineeta picked up on it, and she barely knows Grace (she didn't know that Grace even knew MC or Chloe until the swim meet). It's even more obvious to the player, because we see (some of) her thoughts. Well and good, she's wanted this for a very long time. But MC? We haven't seen a hint of his romantic interest in Grace. Sure, he's sexually attracted to her--we see that in the locker room. He likes and cares for her as a friend. But there isn't a single line of dialogue or internal monologue indicating anything in the direction of "in love." It bothers me more because I think it would have been easy to correct--while they're dancing, and Grace is reassuring MC, he can realize how much she means to him, etc.

In addition, it feels fairly premature for where the game is at right now and the status of the other routes. They've confessed their love for each other, and it's great, but what comes next? She's said she's open to sharing - which was, as usual, kind of a weird thing to say unprompted - so any drama coming from the harem aspect of the game on her end will be either her deciding she isn't comfortable sharing after all, or dealing with the fact that half the love interests are her relatives. Will the drama be about more of her personal hangups? Continued bad communication? Other obstacles preventing them from being together as much as they'd like?

It just feels premature for me, when all the other routes are so far back from this - especially for a game that's self identified as a slow burn. It felt like Grace and Miya kind of jerked forward very suddenly in their relationships with MC, with different issues; Miya's felt awkward and out of place, Grace's feels fairly natural but too soon. It leaves me wondering what kind of tension is left for her route. I'm trusting in Gary that he has a plan for it all, so far things have worked out pretty well, but it contributed to the overall feeling that this update was just too scattered for me.

 

[danb35]

a game that's self identified as a slow burn

It was an off-the-cuff suggestion earlier, but I don't think it'd be too surprising if the "slow burn" were to be that MC is repeatedly cock-blocked by circumstances, and doesn't actually have sex for some time. It's happened three times so far (once in the last update with Stella,* and then with Miya and Grace this update). How many more?

overall feeling that this update was just too scattered

I think I agree here. We got lewds with three of the four housemates, and they were hot, but at least two of the three (I'm just not sure about Chloe's, but she didn't go nearly as far with MC as the other two) felt like an awfully big step forward. OTOH, would Grace** (if not under the influence of magic) have messed around with MC without his confessing, at least, romantic interest? Grace is in love with MC, and it's obvious enough that Vineeta (who's borderline-autistic) considers it just as obvious as that the sky is blue, after seeing them together only once (though at least she was nice enough to cover for MC, so Grace didn't beat the shit out of him). Maybe she doesn't need to hear, "I love you,"† but I think she's going to want to hear something that direction before they start bumping uglies.

Miya? OK, she hasn't had any action in almost 20 years, and MC is an available dick, not to mention someone she likes. Apply a dose of porn logic, and it isn't hard to see them getting together. But (1) at the party? (2) as, um, energetically as they did? and (3) MC is promising an awful lot for a virgin. Now, MC's explanation of his situation to her is the closest he's gotten to telling anyone the truth. I still don't think it's the whole truth, but it's closer than he's told anyone else. What will come of that, of course, remains to be seen.

Again, I see a lot of similarities between this update and the last update to Ripples. That one had a lot of content I enjoyed, and progressed things with a lot of the characters, even if it didn't move the plot ahead a lot; I think this one is about the same in that regard. This one does seem a little more disjointed though.

* OK, we don't know how far they'd have gone, but they definitely would have gone farther than they did, if Ronald hadn't come back home when he did. Stella figured the natural consequence of their date was that they'd have sex, so she certainly doesn't seem resistant to the idea.

** Incidentally, Grace reminds me an awful lot of Tina from The Interim Domain. Athlete, short red hair, washboard abs, doesn't feel that she's attractive as a woman. They certainly aren't the same character, but they have a lot in common.

† And again, I think we really could have gotten there without its having been nearly as jarring. Grace is laying the "I'll always be here for you" on pretty thick while they're dancing, but supposing (as seems likely) that's always been the case in the past, it fits. She and MC have always had each other's backs. They're already best friends. She's a beautiful woman (much as she doubts this--and MC obviously thinks so), and her dress isn't hurting anything. Their dancing together is already a romantic setting. It seems entirely plausible that, in that setting, something clicks for MC, so that he realizes how much she really means to him, how he really feels about her, etc. Remember, the relationship is pretty new to us, but they've known each other for most of their respective lives. Add a few lines of inner monologue during the dance, or perhaps of dialogue to Grace during his confession, and I think the confession seems a lot more natural.

But even with that said, MC's confession to Stella feels much more realistic. He's ~18 and has never had a serious relationship before--even with all the above, is he going to be OK with "I love you?" His "I think you're becoming special to me too" to Stella really rings true--neither of them is really sure what they're feeling, but they're each feeling that the other is special to them somehow. Am I rationalizing my continued placement of Stella at #1 on my list? Maybe.

 

[ShiroGato]

It's happened three times so far (once in the last update with Stella,* and then with Miya and Grace this update). How many more?

Four, if you count the Philica & Chloe scene, but that one is optional. Been thinking about this and it's a complicated issue of player expectation with respect to time investment, and the unfortunate nature of in-progress games. After a certain point of getting jerked around, the player will begin to lose interest and feel like the game is not valuing their time. I hate to make the comparison to how another popular harem game handles this

Spoiler: issue

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The point is there needs to be a hook or outlet for the dev/storyteller to remind the player/audience there is promise for more things to come.

Because we are playing an incomplete chapter/game, there is greater downtime between content and the player is just left starving until the next update is released. The experience would be different if we got to play the chapter/game as a whole because we would just be able to trudge on until the sex scene appears, whenever that may be. We're coming close to 10+ hours in of content, but if we still get nothing after 15-20...

OTOH, would Grace** (if not under the influence of magic) have messed around with MC without his confessing, at least, romantic interest? Maybe she doesn't need to hear, "I love you,"† but I think she's going to want to hear something that direction before they start bumping uglies.

A lot of their past relationship is mostly what the audience is told, and what the player experiences is the few interactions between them, the swim competition, and the party dance. While it's simple enough to understand there's a history between Grace and MC as childhood friends, the progression of their romantic relationship isn't fleshed as a "typical romance" would normally - date, confession of feelings, physical contact, declaration of love, etc etc. Instead the confession robs the audience of that romantic progression. Their romance path could have moved forward without the confession, something as simple as "let's see where this goes", but I surmise this rushed confession was ultimately by design.

 

[danb35]

Four, if you count the Philica & Chloe scene, but that one is optional.

We also get into it with the expectation that MC won't get his--that's at least what's stated as the premise of the scene. I wouldn't count it as his being cock-blocked, but I could see it.

the progression of their romantic relationship isn't fleshed as a "typical romance" would normally - date, confession of feelings, physical contact, declaration of love

But with their existing relationship probably affects this anyway. This is more or less how MC and Stella are progressing, at least so far, but MC met Stella in-game--he hasn't known her more than a few weeks. MC and Grace have known each other for most of their lives and are best friends. I don't think it's a stretch (or at least, not much of one) for something to click for MC, and he realize that Grace means much more to him than he'd realized. I think the progression we see with Stella is more realistic, but the progression with Grace is still reasonably so, if we'd just seen something from MC before his declaration.