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Raziel_8

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Dec 4, 2017
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The question I was driving at was that, if they can detect the power in MC's blood and want to drink him & this power comes from her, why has no-one detected her? Why does Sharon think she's nothing?
Plausible answer is that she's far more adept at masking her power, being much older and more experienced.
MC has no skills/experience of that kind, as yet, so makes it easy to detect him.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but so far only the feral vamp has sensed the powerfull blood in mc.
Markus could only say his claws are something powerfull and Virgil is suspicious cause the sudden rise of Sharon, just he finds the MC or his sire more of a threat than clueless Sharon, the others don't seem to suspect/sense anything about the mc.
If Virgil or the prince could sense the powerfull blood in MC, i'm sure he wouldn't have left the party alive.
 

whichone

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Jan 3, 2018
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but so far only the feral vamp has sensed the powerfull blood in mc.
Markus could only say his claws are something powerfull and Virgil is suspicious cause the sudden rise of Sharon, just he finds the MC or his sire more of a threat than clueless Sharon, the others don't seem to suspect/sense anything about the mc.
If Virgil or the prince could sense the powerfull blood in MC, i'm sure he wouldn't have left the party alive.
That's right, the nos we turned to ash could sense us and remarked that the others would too & want to drink us.
Not sure which "others" it was referring to, mind.
As you rightly say, obviously wasn't anyone at the ceremony.
 

D3xzalias

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Aug 1, 2018
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The question I was driving at was that, if they can detect the power in MC's blood and want to drink him & this power comes from her, why has no-one detected her? Why does Sharon think she's nothing?
Plausible answer is that she's far more adept at masking her power, being much older and more experienced.
MC has no skills/experience of that kind, as yet, so makes it easy to detect him.
Look Sharon is probably a 10 or 11th gen vampire. While MC is probably a 5th gen. While i do think generations from like from early or up to 8th gen can detect the power of MC lineage. Sharon's Blood is to thinned out to detect MC. Probably Virgil can detect MC and that why he tries intimidate MC. When meeting with the princeps. Roland also shows some respect in a weird way to MC. Normally if some low on the totem pole vampire doesn't bow he probably get punished in a severe way. Mc only gets a weird look.

So overal yes some vampires can detect MC's lineage.

So why don't they kill him Virgil and Roland aren't stupid and clearly know the MC is offspring from Calisto or suspect he is. Probably word got out some powerful vamp got a new kid, Don't touch him or expect the worst.
Even at when entering the Investure They all tell Mc they know who he is.
I think Calisto enjoys having MC around so much. That all the new stuff she is enjoying fights, betrayels between formal lovers
Shifting of powers. in the vamp world
If somebody killed her kid i expect a jihad were noone is save from her
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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So thumb back about 100 pages and read forward. We have been dissecting this and other things for a while now.
In order to know how powerful the blood is, you need to have a certain aptitude for it. In VtM the Tremere had to perform Thaumaturgy to know details about someone's vitae and or lineage. Virgil, possibly the Princeps, the Feral Nos and of course Fabian are the only ones who have reason to be concerned and or have some knowledge of the power in the blood of the MC. The Princeps is only possibly. He is likely the equivalent of a Ventrue type of vampire, like Sharon likely is, and as a result, would only know how powerful the MC is through trial and error with his powers. Sharon was able to stop the MC from running when they frenzied due to Captain Flamethrower, but I actually think that was some license with the powers if they are semi lifting them from VtM as it should not have worked on him. It is possible that his generation and it effectively blocking her domination would only apply if he is in control of himself, which clearly he wasn't.

Similarly the Princeps would have to have his powers fail against the MC in order to really know, unless he has like beyond Ace Ventura deductive logic and sense of smell. The Feral Nos got it from the blood sweat most likely. As everyone was nervous and she was attacking the MC and very close to him.

As for no one knowing about Calisto, we currently believe one of a couple plausible theories. If the Ancient is a Greek Goddess as we suspect (the being which inspired the myths is what I mean) then it has been put forth that we call her Artemis, as that goddess had a hierea or High Priestess Named Calisto, who was a nymph, pledged to be virginal, seduced by Zeus, cursed by Hera to have a Bear form. Her child from Zeus named Arcus hunted her and nearly killed her not recognizing her in the bear form. That is the Iliad version (by Homer and or Virgil and or Plubius).
Fabian remarks his surprise that she created another childe, indicating that perhaps her prior venture in vampiric reproduction was not without it's bumps. So we presume that the MC is her second actual childe, the first being the problematic Arcus.
She is presumably the childe of Artemis, and if Artemis is a founder of her bloodline, that would make Calisto 4th generation equivalent from VtM. If Artemis is a very ancient Methuselah instead, that makes Calisto 5th generation. The MC is of course 1 generation higher. I did a genealogy for this bloodline and Fabian's based purely on conjecture and Greek mythology.

I believe Calisto to be a 4th generation rather than a 5th generation Ancient Methuselah (both are correct usages of the term) and Artemis to be a bloodline founder, with Zeus as her sire and Cronus as the Titan sire of Zeus. There are lots of possible permutations for bloodlines, and it could be that the whole Greek goddess thing is a red herring, but it would be so much better if it is actually following that rather than the VtM type of Old Testament type crap. (as I had pointed out earlier, Mark Rein-Hagen the creator of VtM is agnostic at best, and most likely an atheist so it is funny how his creation sort of evolved from the Jewish and Christian faiths. In fairness he was brought up in a Christian home so thematically it must have made some sense to him to follow this route)

In any case, I digressed a bit- Calisto is very adept at hiding who she is, to the point that Fabian doesn't even want her name mentioned and for sure that the MC is not associated with her as that would paint a huge target on his back. Now it might be that some Anne Rice made it in to this as well, since Calisto has not diluted her gift overly much, so her childe would be exceptionally gifted. If that and "normal" VtM type stuff applies, the MC is becoming a true beast of a vampire just as Lestat did. Very Quickly. Fabian may not realize it, and most likely no one else but Virgil has a clue, but the MC may already be powerful enough to take out multiple enemies if needed. His Claws certainly are effective, and if you played with your axe in Sharon's meditation room your Prowess is 30 or so. Pretty crazy for a vamp less than 2 months into his career, with scores of 25 in stealth and depending on if you hit all your marks or not, a 13-25 Charisma making that Whisper very potent as well.
Combine that with the visions, the celerity, the ability to outpump blood pool points and the enhanced senses to detect enemies and you have one very scary non fledgling elder type thing in a fledgling's clothing. Calisto is even more so, and can definitely hid in her temple of Pagan Pantheists. I doubt that anyone in the city other than Calisto's folks actually know that much about Calisto, and even then they do not know it all.

I can't insert the quote for some reason. The Feral Nos only said powerful blood and tasty. No other comments to be shared. Fabian knows who the MC is. Virgil thinks that the MC is more than he appears, and the Princeps thinks that the MC is the enthralled lover of his newest Archon. That limited knowledge as has been stated above is the only reason that no one broke bad at the Investiture. I do not think the MC would have died though. Sharon probably would have, as she would have defended him, but Fabian would have defended him rather than face a pissed off Calisto or worse Artemis. So I think he would have gotten away and would have killed some shit on the way out. But that would have wrecked the build up and the whole formula of writing a story!!!!

So yeah, back to my point, Calisto can hide it. So can the MC unless he is faced with a highly sensitive opponent who can sniff him out so to speak.
Anyhow Peace y'all
 
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D3xzalias

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Aug 1, 2018
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right, so they know, but they're keeping that information to themselves, presumably?
Hence other vamps viewing her & the Temple as heretics.
No i don't think viewing her or temple as heretics. I think they just don't know enough about her and the circle of friends she has
They only know she is old. and older vampires are really scary if they frenzy. And they just want to avoid that
 
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Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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So then they do know how powerful she is.
I do not think anyone other than Fabian "Knows" anything. I think Virgil knows that an ancient is buried under the city and he wants to farm that bitch and drain her. It does not follow that he knows her hand maiden and high priestess is in the same city watching over her. IF he knew that, he probably would be in another town, because I doubt he could take Calisto. I think he is the HIM that Artemis/Vision Girl is referring to.
 

Arigon

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for the record... Vision Girl was wondering to herself if the MC would be powerful enough to defeat HIM. that is what I am referring to, and why I contend that the MC's embrace was planned all along, just possibly not by Calisto lol
 
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whichone

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Jan 3, 2018
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I think he is the HIM that Artemis/Vision Girl is referring to.
Yes! That would make sense.
Why "Artemis"? Goddess of the hunt & chastity?
Vision Girl doesn't appear too chaste...
Could see her as Peitho.
 
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c3p0

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Conspiracy.

Artemis aka Vision Girl aka Vampire Mummy aka Red Beauty aka Lilith, we don't much about here or in were she belongs in regard to our MC and Calisto. Only that from the Ren'Py code, I think, the name of her variable was Mummy.
So, Calistos name is confirmed. Also most of us here believe their is a connection between Calisto our MC and Red Beauty (aka aka aka). One of the theories is that she is the sire of Calisto and she is Artemis. This I think is the most accepted here.

Another one, would be that she is Lilith and thus the same or near the same generation as the first vampire Caine (and this is also only a theory and not yet absolute confirmed).
If she is Lilith then, if she would wake up, we're toast, including much likely Calisto. If Lilith would be Calistos sire, then Calisto would be 2nd/3rd generation vampire and she herself would be catastrophe for us, if somethings goes wrong.
 
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Warscared

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Jan 26, 2021
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why was the princeps talking in Catalan? at least that is what it seemed to me once i spoke the words!

Also who would be dumb enough to try and diablarize (is that what you call it?) a bear cub near the mamma bear? If Arigon theory is correct the pun is fully intended!

Furthermore Fabian clearly states she as not reproduced in 700 years! so whatever is going on she as done it before and not just the vampire little bear of 2000 or 3000 years ago! Furthermore the name Templar and the date of 700 years ago... it was when the Templar where destroyed and only those in Portugal and Scotland survived because at the time there where no strong central governments that could wipe them out!

so 700 years ago the Templar almost got destroyed and Callisto created a weapon that probably did not survive the onslaught (or it could be Fabian and he is your brother and not your cousin?)

the main attack was in France and the other countries just disbanded them took over their castles and imprisoned a few influential that could turn a nice profit, one such countries at the time was the kingdom of Aragon and the kingdom of Navarre so perhaps the princeps got his title as a reward for his support for the Templar escape? then finding refuge in America 200 years prior to the 1st European colonizers? there are even theories of Irish native tribes living in the Americans for thousands of years before the arrival of the medieval kingdoms!

my favorite is the solutrean theory, but that is totally off topic!
 

whichone

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Jan 3, 2018
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Conspiracy.
One of the theories is that she is the sire of Calisto and she is Artemis. This I think is the most accepted here.
Ah, right, pure speculation. Thanks. Thought I'd missed something. lol (y)
That seems to blatantly disregard a major part of Artemis' character.
 
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Mr_Sel

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Mar 16, 2018
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If Lilith would be Calistos sire, then Calisto would be 2nd/3rd generation vampire and she herself would be catastrophe for us, if somethings goes wrong.
Now, now, let's not rush into despair just yet. Calisto is not some freshly awakened mummy, that feels the need to drain everything that moves. Her sire, now, that's a different story. You guys think Andrew has a nuke or two stashed somewhere, just in case?
 

D3xzalias

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Aug 1, 2018
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Now, now, let's not rush into despair just yet. Calisto is not some freshly awakened mummy, that feels the need to drain everything that moves. Her sire, now, that's a different story. You guys think Andrew has a nuke or two stashed somewhere, just in case?
He probably has some. Knowing Andrew just some small 2mt briefcase nukes
 

Raziel_8

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Dec 4, 2017
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Now, now, let's not rush into despair just yet. Calisto is not some freshly awakened mummy, that feels the need to drain everything that moves. Her sire, now, that's a different story. You guys think Andrew has a nuke or two stashed somewhere, just in case?
If she is Lilith i don't think just 1 or 2 nukes will be enough...they did need more for the last antediluvian who awoke...like neutron bombs, orbital mirrors and a handfull of the oldest and strongest vamps which fought him meanwhile...and if he is really dead is not entirely sure iirc.
And Ravnos was ''just'' a 3rd gen, Lilith was created by god, cursed by him, allied with satan/maybe a demon...and the one who teached Cain all about his powers, so i'd say she is about the same power lvl as Cain...alas everyone is fucked if she has a bad day
 
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Nulldev

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Nov 28, 2017
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If she is Lilith i don't think just 1 or 2 nukes will be enough...they did need more for the last antediluvian who awoke...like neutron bombs, orbital mirrors and a handfull of the oldest and strongest vamps which fought him meanwhile...and if he is really dead is not entirely sure iirc.
And Ravnos was ''just'' a 3rd gen, Lilith was created by god, cursed by him, allied with satan/maybe a demon...and the one who teached Cain all about his powers, so i'd say she is about the same power lvl as Cain...alas everyone is fucked if she has a bad day
Waitwaitwait, if this is a WOD like world, that means there is a real God and true faith that can resist magic effects? Ars Magica like?
 

Arigon

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Ah, right, pure speculation. Thanks. Thought I'd missed something. lol (y)
That seems to blatantly disregard a major part of Artemis' character.
Artemis is the daughter of Zeus and twin of Apollo. She is the vengeful goddess of the hunt.
C3P0 and others speculated some time ago that the Greek Gods reference may have been more than idle speculation. Calisto was the name of the Nymph and Demi goddess high priestess of Artemis who had a dalliance with Zeus. The MC Claws are more powerful than Enid and company’s wolf claws. Hera cursed Calisto and her child with bear forms and to save them Zeus put them in the heavens as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor.
so while it is speculation, it is grounded with either nuggets of truth or total red herrings.

Since my left nut is mortgaged already my right nut is on the block now and am betting that our Greek Gods analogy is not far off.

LB needs origin myths for the vampires and there are a plethora of Greek and Roman and Germanic names. Astrid for instance could be the Trickster God’s descendant of Norse fame as her name means Beautiful Goddess in Nordic myth.

Are we reaching? Sure. But I think our reaches are at least plausible and are very interesting to say the least!
 
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