seniorboop

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This sharon will be the end of us with her obsession with little Astrid, first with hunters 'NO,NO is not her in the end its her" selling us to hunters (breaking all the rules of vamp sociery) and what is next plan of her god only knows with us. Now to get rid of scum , Sharon say: "are you mad". sorry sharon i'm not little puppy who jumps on evey word what come with Astrid.
I actually liked Sharon up until recent episodes but now she's increasingly feeling like dead weight. She doesn't seem to have much more to offer in terms of vampiric wisdom, the MC is capable of pretty much anything she can do and much more than that, the MC also has access to a much better vampire network via Callisto.

I feel like we've reached the end of the rope in respect to her usefulness. It's like she's been relegated to whining and lamenting her powerlessness at this point.
 

Raziel_8

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This was my line of thinking as well. Callisto following up giving you the dagger by telling you she'd be more impressed if you did it with your own hands makes me feel like chekhov's gun is in effect. Why even waste the time putting that line in if it has no importance? Im convinced if you have Superman punches and claws you dont need the dagger at all. IMO it's basically your get out of jail free card if you lacked those abilities when you 1v1 the cave thing.
I very much doubt that Callisto is aware of what that 'elder' really is.
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seniorboop

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I very much doubt that Callisto is aware of what that 'elder' really is.
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Obviously the cave thing is nothing to scoff at but I feel as if we're dealing with unreliable narrators. The MC has barely begun to understand and grow into his ludicrous potential alongside Frank and Merrick being no more than run of the mill Nos who our youngling MC already eclipses in the very short time he's been kindred.

The cave thing thus far has only successfully dominated two hardly significant Nos and put fear in an MC who knows very little of vampirism itself and even less his own latent capabilities.

I always judge characters juxtaposed with deities by examining what they cant do. The cave thing's domination was broken by Callisto in a short ritual that apparently took no more than a few moments in addition to being physically bound in a random cave under a graveyard. Personally, im just not seeing a reason to undervalue Callisto, a confirmed top-tier character, in favor of overvaluing a currently forgotten thing trapped in a cave. It would be more odd to me that Callisto, as old and powerful as she is, would have no awareness of a being comparable to herself walking the Earth for the very long time she's existed.

Will it be a more taxing encounter than the feral Nos? Pretty much a certainty. Will the MC's plot armor and dreams of becoming the Pirate King prevail over random cave things egyptian dreams? Also a certainty. I think Super-strength, claws, and perhaps even the Whispers power (to prevent cave things mental domination) will be comparative to having the dagger.
 

yltohawk

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Mar 19, 2019
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Obviously the cave thing is nothing to scoff at but I feel as if we're dealing with unreliable narrators. The MC has barely begun to understand and grow into his ludicrous potential alongside Frank and Merrick being no more than run of the mill Nos who our youngling MC already eclipses in the very short time he's been kindred.

The cave thing thus far has only successfully dominated two hardly significant Nos and put fear in an MC who knows very little of vampirism itself and even less his own latent capabilities.

I always judge characters juxtaposed with deities by examining what they cant do. The cave thing's domination was broken by Callisto in a short ritual that apparently took no more than a few moments in addition to being physically bound in a random cave under a graveyard. Personally, im just not seeing a reason to undervalue Callisto, a confirmed top-tier character, in favor of overvaluing a currently forgotten thing trapped in a cave. It would be more odd to me that Callisto, as old and powerful as she is, would have no awareness of a being comparable to herself walking the Earth for the very long time she's existed.

Will it be a more taxing encounter than the feral Nos? Pretty much a certainty. Will the MC's plot armor and dreams of becoming the Pirate King prevail over random cave things egyptian dreams? Also a certainty. I think Super-strength, claws, and perhaps even the Whispers power (to prevent cave things mental domination) will be comparative to having the dagger.
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Arigon

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My Responses will all be like this
- Andrew has a point because Calisto is a deadly threat to Sharon. Andrew is bonded with Sharon beyond the blood bond so he's trying to protect her. He could have burned Calisto and Cindy easily in their sleep and later say they tried something against the Archon (Sharon)
- About drinking vampire blood. In the source material if a vampire drinks another one dry killing him in the process, the former innherits the other one power level so to say. This is forbidden and sanctioned with death in civilized vampire circles like the one of our protagonists.
A line from Calisto should give you pause to consider things. I am not spoiling. I will talk about things walking into this update. When Calisto arrived-
Sharon told Calisto that she was the Archon and who did she think she was?(Sharon increasingly needy ego, fed by Andrew as her adoring Thrall.)
Calisto responded that she was an elder, and yes she acknowledged Sharon as the Archon "For as long as she could keep it".
Calisto operates in an entirely different frame than Sharon and Andrew. Most of the past chapters, Andrew has been the faithful servant to Sharon, and very respectful of our MC due to Sharon's good graces at first, and later her growing affection for the MC.
What is most important in the phrase above is to note Exactly what Calisto said about Sharon's appointment as Archon. Remember also when the MC makes his first post embrace visit to Calisto, she advises him not to kill her "Yet". Calisto regards Sharon as a tool to assist her progeny. That is it. Period.

So extrapolate what Calisto said to Sharon, and apply it to all vampire conventions and etiquette. Basically, you eat what you kill, or you kill what you eat is her way of business. If you are enough of a bad ass to enforce your will, there are few conventions that Calisto would not violate or encourage her progeny to violate- IF he has the stones to do it. Drinking blood of a vampire has many consequences in VTM. It would have consequences here as well. Consider, that Calisto exists below the radar of most in the city. She doesn't give two fucks about any of them. Calisto IS NOT INFALLABLE but she is very wise. If her progeny had the stones to drink vampire blood, she would not give one shit about it, and likely would act behind the scenes to keep her very pleasing childe in play in her game.


Guess we can say we Ass Rid :D



Look here it's simple economics, would you trade that crazy pscyo to rent that Shiny dagger personally I'd like to do it the old fashioned way with my bare claws,I mean we have them so why not use them ?

Wise use of valuable resources proves out your above and below statement.


One less mouth to feed as the environmentalist say, or was that what the lunch lad says.

Look inside spoiler for comments
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You were soo right on many of your theory crafting, now is your left nut safe or... ?
My left nut is clear and ready to go for my next crazy theory, which will come out....shortly....
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Story wise I see the following points that are of interest in the Code and will affect future episode look in spoiler

1) getting +2 to stealth if you have invisibility and peeked on Calsito and seen her true form (Variable: Calform) (Arigon would you still tap that ?)
Absolutely every single day/night!
2)The mark on Laurie and Carmen indicates a stain on their soul or pscye as they are now down with a debuff of sorts(Variable: Carmenmarked/lauriemarked) also what will Fabian say
Fabian did caution that Calisto might over eat, and he did as that the MC return the gifts if he could. I imagine that our resident sorcerer will want a favor or two for his two very interesting non thralled toys. Soul stain is a reasonable guess but it is more than that in my opinion. More on that later....
3) Handing over Astrid may be required for those who focused only on stealth or haven't built points to powerpunch and claws ,not needed for those who have min maxxed, unsure of future story affect. Yes the dagger is mainly for the ones who chose to focus on the more stealthy path and or simply chose to remain more human. Each power we take moves us a step away from humanity, and really what Sharon is representing. So yes, some folks might play through with minimal power runs. You pretty much are required to take some powers though. Otherwise you are toast!
If it gives me the option I am handing the dagger to Carmen and using my claws. Just saying.....
In case you missed it above, yes some comments in the spoilers.


This episode moved the game a lot forward. To bad at my current time, I need to split my time here with Aloy.;)

Other than that:
Unsure about the dagger and Astrid. She is need to be judged and the judgement needs to be rendered. Yet, I doubt the sentence from Callisto that it will cost, has only one meaning. The consequence in the vampire world if this will become public is one, the disturbance that this cause between the MC and Sharon are another and possible lose of humanity may be a third.
Also it could be that if we question Astrid, me may learn something from her.
All that against the gain of favour with Callisto, the most powerfull vampires we know (yet). As well as a invaluable dagger, I assume - Perhaps she give us also a chainmail next time?:p

Also Callisto has reprimand Sharon the second time? From another game, the third time would be the end of your story. Hopefully Callisto is not as baddass as Donna Cordia.;)
I do not think Calisto is much for reminding others of points already made! Also, Calisto is as bad assed as is reasonable in this game. Our two Goddesses are another story altogether.

has any of you played that other vampire game called the bite?
It is a decent game. More sex and earlier by far. Vampires are entertaining, and based mostly on VTM but modified by the dev of course. I would recommend it as a filler for this game personally, unless it gets a lot more interesting.

I have a bit different opinion regarding Andrew.Look inside spoiler
I mean sure, Andrew could burn Calisto and Cindy while they're asleep, but I doubt he and Sharon would be able to get away with it that easily. Especially considering Sharon is just a newly appointed Archon, and Calisto is an Elder, who is a being of much higher position and power, and most likely feared and respected to the ones who know her in the vamp society (I mean, she's even way higher than the Princeps).So this comment addresses a couple of quotes, so I may just paste it in when relevant. Elders, especially powerful ones who are up, not lacking blood, and fully embracing their powers can awaken to attacks even during the day. This could occur even in VTM. No chance Andrew lives through that, and while Cindy might end up as toast, Calisto would then kill everyone in the house but the MC and drain them to heal up. Of course minus some sorcery which she clearly has in abundance, she can only heal so much aggravated damage of fire at one go.

In fact, I'd be willing to guess if Andrew had done such a rash act, both him and Sharon (and yes, also MC) would come under heavy scrutiny by the Vamp Society that they assassinated a guest in their home, and they'd take a huge hit in their reputation, unless there is hard evidence of breach of how a guest should behave).
And besides, it's not like Andrew was even thinking of accommodating to be good hosts even in the beginning of Calisto's visit. In fact, he's been basically fueling Sharon's ego saying "We should show our strengths" etc which made her make a not so smart decision against Calisto in previous update (though Sharon's own huge ego I feel did play a huge part in it, which MC warns her time and time again).Sharon has become increasingly egotistical since her appointment BY Calisto through proxy. She has no clue where and what she is up against. She foolishly disbelieves the one being that could actually save her from what might happen to her. She is a good girl, but a flawed good girl. And yeah or no, no chance that they survive if they actually managed to kill Calisto, the Bloodhunt would be instant and brutal. The MC could probably live with the others who were not involved, but Fabian would figure it out and ensure that Sharon paid, and Andrew was tortured and drained brutally.

And with the flamethrower? Sure, when Calisto and Cindy are sleeping I'd assume there'd be no problem, but with Cindy being awake (and being her bitchy self to Andrew by the door), I don't think it would have been in Andrew's favor. He'll try to torch her in flames, but most likely I'm guessing before he can kill her that way, she'll knock the flamethrower out of his hands and kill him with her immense strength (which even surprised the MC when they first met). It's just that I think she chose not to cause Cindy is just so obsessed with how it will inconvenience/displease her Hieira

Andrew says to not underestimate humans. Laurie parrots this. Against NORMAL vampires-Sharon. He is right. Against truly powerful vampires- Calisto, Cindy, MC, he has no fucking clue. He and Sharon have Never encountered anything like Calisto, and whether she wants to believe it or not, she is starting to get it about the MC, see the last update when she says she is unsure who is the one in charge regarding her or the MC. She is definitely starting to realize that she is out of her league and her response is to cling to what she has, her being the Archon, protocol and this is her house, and Andrew is her boy- and she thinks the MC is one of her boys. She fears losing that which is talked about further down in another quote.


Wasn't really aware of the lore, but yeah I thought that might be the case (regarding feeding on other vamps).
If you are enough of a bad ass to grasp the hem of a god and tear them down, then who on earth can judge you???-Arigon, in a twisted moment, in a book he is writing. Just saying.....


Comments in spoiler
I guess, with Cindy, while humiliating her is comical, I fear I might get a bit tired of if she does it again and again in the MC's next meet with Calisto and her. I mean if the player makes the right decisions, there's already several instances where MC humiliates her in Calisto visits this time around.
Though that, I guess it will depend on what Ptolemy has planned regarding her character.
Actually, LikesBlondes is in charge of the AVN and has veto over things, so yeah, even I have suggested some things and Pto does his stuff, but LB is the man so to speak.
Yeah, I mean Sharon I used to like a lot, but I think both her and Andrew really need to wake up in terms of how they behave in this new world. I mean the past two updates, it was basically Sharon and Andrew having their egos inflated so much and MC trying to get them to realize it's much more bigger deal than they think. Precise and On Target comment.

But all they were doing were "Oh I'm the Archon, so she'll have to follow my rules" or "We need to show our strength young master." I mean yes, guests have to abide by how Archon governs and showing strength is not necessarily a bad thing, but they were being in foolhardy level.
Sharon paid a bit of price in the last update, and Andrew, well...... he still thinks he can deal with Calisto and Cindy (without even considering who they are, and the severe consequences it may bring them should they openly engage in conflict with an Elder).
Your phrase "they've been frogs in a well" is indeed correct.
Felt like time and time again (during Calisto's visit) MC had to bail both of them out of the conflict (well ok, not Sharon, she got to taste the bitter pill lol), being the mediator.

Sharon is a vampire with some quirks and interesting bits. She is the soft pillow to lay your head on. She will make sacrifices in your name. She has no fucking clue *though it is dawning on her thick skull slowly!
She is now in a big pond that she never knew existed. Not the Archon pond. That is dogshit. To have spent time in the presence of someone born 4,500+ years ago????? She has no frame of reference for that, and disregards anything that might have given her a reference. Frode probably gave her very good advice at one point, that she promptly disregarded because it didn't fit her world view. She had to basically be bludgeoned into accepting that the MC has more powers, and more powerful powers, than she has ever been exposed to. He is not the fresh blood she took out hunting his first night up and around. The blood of 4,500 years is coursing through his veins and it is not going to stop until he is a worthy addition to the Ragnarök moment that is coming.....soon. The slugfest between the Sisters is the main event. Everything else will lead to that moment. Calisto is just a pawn in that, and yes that means every other single vampire is insignificant except for Virgil if I am right, and the MC-both of whom are also pawns. (Frank might also be a pawn... to be determined and I will explain more shortly)
Astrid, Sharon, Roland the Princep, Eloise, Markus, Merrick, Marcius, Malia, my dear beloved Zephir, Frode, Fabian, all dust in the wind with all the other insignificant gnats that are on the table.



That's The Bitcher in which high vampires are god mode. In VTM and Rebirth by extension, vampires can't do anything during daytime. You can burn them to a crisp in their sleep. Ancient Methuselahs are not constrained by the daylight outside as much as you might believe. There are instances of great vampires acting during the day. As a matter of fact, one sign of Great Vampires is mental activity while they are in their torpor sleep during the day or disability. (or even Diablerized in some cases) The MC receives visions during the day. Inanna sends them. Ereshkigal sends them, but to Frank instead of the MC, except there is a bit of the dark goddess creeping into the visions of the MC. Granted normal vampires are toast if a Thrall/Ghoul flames them in the daytime. Calisto has sorcery, and I am sure the sheer willpower of 4,500 years of existence to get up and beat Andrew's ass and then kill everyone not protected by the sunlight.
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I very much doubt that Callisto is aware of what that 'elder' really is.
I have said this for a little bit now. Calisto is a bad ass, but she is not infallible. She failed to more fully investigate what the visions of the MC were, and the various clues that we could have given her, had she just asked. Look inside spoiler for comment.
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I am just going to put it simply.
This is wrong. I like to be polite on this forum and encourage people, but there is nothing accurate in this post.

Obviously the cave thing is nothing to scoff at but I feel as if we're dealing with unreliable narrators. The MC has barely begun to understand and grow into his ludicrous potential alongside Frank and Merrick being no more than run of the mill Nos who our youngling MC already eclipses in the very short time he's been kindred.
Frank may not be the same as the MC, but he is not a trivial vampire. Merrick, yeah. Frank has a long history, a short bloodline, and pretty much been wrestling with this Goddess for the last 3/4 a century in his brain, trying to find her.
The cave thing thus far has only successfully dominated two hardly significant Nos and put fear in an MC who knows very little of vampirism itself and even less his own latent capabilities.
Everyone in the story so far EXCEPT Inanna, the other sister that talks to the MC, are trivial. That does not mean that Calisto does not have great powers. She does. She has different powers than Ereshkigal's line. You need to pay more attention to the things that are going on, and what is implied, because I am thinking you didn't get it.
I always judge characters juxtaposed with deities by examining what they cant do. The cave thing's domination was broken by Callisto in a short ritual that apparently took no more than a few moments in addition to being physically bound in a random cave under a graveyard. Personally, im just not seeing a reason to undervalue Callisto, a confirmed top-tier character, in favor of overvaluing a currently forgotten thing trapped in a cave. It would be more odd to me that Callisto, as old and powerful as she is, would have no awareness of a being comparable to herself walking the Earth for the very long time she's existed.
The being in the cave is 13.5 to 15k years old. Calisto is 4.5 k years old. I am not going to debate it, I am just telling you like it is. Calisto is capable of making errors. She also does not really know of the twins. She knows dreams of the gods that came before her time, 4.5k years ago, but she has no real clue. Just as Calisto is vastly more powerful than everyone except her own child who at least is punching above his weight, and Virgil who is her first childe *I believe, and is about her age within a century or two, the twins are much further in power than Calisto, and yes she will no doubt punch much higher than her weight class, she is not going to defeat one of the goddesses.
Will it be a more taxing encounter than the feral Nos? Pretty much a certainty. Will the MC's plot armor and dreams of becoming the Pirate King prevail over random cave things egyptian dreams? Also a certainty. I think Super-strength, claws, and perhaps even the Whispers power (to prevent cave things mental domination) will be comparative to having the dagger.

The dagger is a crutch for those who cling to their humanity and refuse the blood gifts. It Could also be given to a follower possibly, which might put a punch or two in, in a critical moment. Claws are absolutely the way to go, with invisibility, super strength, whispering and all that going, but we are not going to kill the goddess.
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Peace y'all
 

FatGiant

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Thanks Arigon

I don't like sparkling vamps either. Yet, I do like a redemption story. I have, for very personal reasons, a real soft spot for addicts (like Astrid), and, again, even if everyone calls me stupid, I would prefer to help her out of it, than have her killed for her lack of impulse control.
I am not saying that Astrid is "good" (in Vamps or Humans terms) I think she may be more than just the incompetent "bad guy" she pretends to be (or has she's been painted has). I find her flaws fascinating, not attractive. I find her fixation on Sharon, endearing, but not enticing.
Astrid is to me, the most interesting character in the story, all the others have fixed roles to play, she's the wild card, the *, the 42. I don't know what in my life made me this way, but flawed persons are fascinating to me, can't keep my eyes away, even when disgusted, and since I am a over protector (can't help it, won't help it) all I can think about is how can I "fix" her. Sharon, whom I decidedly like, would love it, so yeah, even if the author doesn't give me that chance, I will play the game as if that was a possibility, because that's what makes sense to me.

Really, thanks for your comments, we don't have to agree, but I really like to have a dialogue. Kudos mate.
 
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Ragnar

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Ancient Methuselahs are not constrained by the daylight outside as much as you might believe. There are instances of great vampires acting during the day. As a matter of fact, one sign of Great Vampires is mental activity while they are in their torpor sleep during the day or disability. (or even Diablerized in some cases) The MC receives visions during the day. Inanna sends them. Ereshkigal sends them, but to Frank instead of the MC, except there is a bit of the dark goddess creeping into the visions of the MC. Granted normal vampires are toast if a Thrall/Ghoul flames them in the daytime. Calisto has sorcery, and I am sure the sheer willpower of 4,500 years of existence to get up and beat Andrew's ass and then kill everyone not protected by the sunlight.
I don't think Calisto is as powerful as Antediluvians. She's old compared with Archons and the Princep sure, but she is not that old.
We have visions of two vampires; the brunette succubus and the corpse in the lake. Those can be methuselahs and the most powerful beings in Rebirth. Calisto? I don't think so. She must be 2000-2500 years top.
That's an old ass vampire in VTM lore in which Antediluvianss rarely take part during modern nights.
 
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Arigon

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I don't think Calisto is as powerful as the Methuselahs. She's old compared with Archons and the Princep sure, but she is not that old.
We have visions of two vampires; the brunette succubus and the corpse in the lake. Those can be methuselahs and the most powerful beings in Rebirth. Calisto? I don't think so. She must be 2000-2500 years top.
That's an old ass vampire in VTM lore in which methuselahs rarely take part during modern nights.
Verified ages
Calisto 4,500 Methuselah
Goddesses 13-15.5k years old generation could all be Cain, Second, Third whatever, They are way above what you are thinking and that is 100% verified
 

DA22

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Verified ages
Calisto 4,500 Methuselah
Goddesses 13-15.5k years old generation could all be Cain, Second, Third whatever, They are way above what you are thinking and that is 100% verified
Yeah and then to think we have even been informed by those skalds there is another race that created those firstborn (whom both twins may belong to as a later created generation with someone as Tiamat as first try, which could make the later created ones even stronger better versions that even outclass those firstborn like they did take over in the myths they are based on or very close descendants to those firstborn :p) for their war. Well at least as far as we know those creators are not playing a part as well or else even more bets would be off. :ROFLMAO: :devilish:

Still it could play a role if devs ever would want to do a continuation.

Edit: Even if devs lent some things from VTM (as VTM did from older sources), especially the creation myth and power levels were not, so some serious surprises might happen especially if only think VTM ( Like for example in those older myths the twins are taken from, the later gens actually do replace the first gens and well if Zeus will play some role in Geek myths same thing happened with Titans) and those creators also might still be around (or destoyed by their creations) and busy and trying to create an even stronger firstborn for example for their purposes whether through old bloodlines or as something completely new, even though I do not think that will be a theme in this game I might still get surprised.
 
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FunFuntomes

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you all seem to overestimate that shortsword, dagger or whatever. Unlike claws or an axe, a sword needs training to be usable and there are only two people I can think capable of training MC.. Elise and Fabian, but here comes the catch... Elise would ask questions and we don't know her loyalties. Fabian serves Calisto but unless MC gave calisto 4 snacks, he's not really in the mood to do MC any favors. Add to that the fact Astrid has tits and the dagger doesn't, I'm keeping the blonde to myself. There will be other chances to humble Cindy..
The update shined new light on the "marked" thing Laurie and/or Carmen get if offered to Calisto. We were made aware that Mommy doesn't dine twice on the same food, so perhaps them being marked will prevent Calisto from snacking on them at a later vist when there would be no blood dolls to take a portion of her hunger
 

Ragnar

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Verified ages
Calisto 4,500 Methuselah
Goddesses 13-15.5k years old generation could all be Cain, Second, Third whatever, They are way above what you are thinking and that is 100% verified
I was thinking of Antediluvians when talking about Methuselahs, my bad.
 
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JJDrakken

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So I didn't know what to expect with this. It's been mostly misses for me on here when it comes to anything Vampire or Horror related. Most them are Sandbox(hate em), utter trash, or so far out in the lands of Acid induced WTF(I did acid in my youth, it was not that mind numbing WTF).

I kept passing on this, but saw this was updated, figure ok I'll give it a whirl, what's worse that can happen I'll waist some time. Started with Chp. 1 and now I'm in Chp 3.

I'm impressed, I've been enjoying this. It's sorta feels like my olds days playing & LARPing World of Darkness back in the early 90s in Seattle. Some times I could do with more sexy time, though I found your reasons for hard-on issues to be amusing. I just wish our MC was a bit more Dom-ish(Not full on prick murder hobo), but yeah.

So kudos, keep up the work and hope to see more, though I'll probably wait a year or two, before checking in. I like binge my reading time with stuff like this :)
 

Peter_Parker

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Im glad that im not the only one to get rid of
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in order to have the dagger, also i have the massive arm thing it's only going to be a plus when the fight start, im just worried my "Mentor" going to be very pissed :S
 
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DA22

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Im glad that im not the only one to get rid of
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in order to have the dagger, also i have the massive arm thing it's only going to be a plus when the fight start, im just worried my "Mentor" going to be very pissed :S
Well, for the last she might. It might also be like weening her off a bad addiction. As I somewhat complained :ROFLMAO: off before devs are quite good at holding their cards close and not over hinting us players and make chars seem like real chars with their faults and strengths and acting for their own reasons. Which adds to the suspense, but makes it harder to know what your choices will mean in the end. Will you be dooming or rescuing Sharon with this choice, will she stay mad or wake up with Astrid gone, is Sharon savable at all or was she always doomed or will she suddenly get a growth spurt that she badly needs if she is meant to come out alive?

Will another pawn or even a player come forward in last two episodes that is related to those or someone we already know is more as they seem (Malia could well be a candidate for being more as she seems and someone was noticing the rise of the Twins that is as old or even older as them and besides Inanna (we assume it was her influence) she was as involved with the rebirth of MC as anyone else but C) or is this the cast until end and it will be as Arigon surmised the twins destroying the planet between them at the end or will MC somehow be able to make those two kiss and makeup after millennia? :p
 
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