VN Ren'Py Rebirth [Ep.5 Update 13] [LikesBlondes]

[B-52reloaded]

Agreed. Except I still don't believe it was astrid that told the amateurs. Only later will we be able to put it to rest i hope

Edited: Unless the achron made astrid do it. He was made the fool and he wants Sharon's pussy etc. I could see him ordering astrid to tell them to try to make the mc or sharon make another infraction. Mayhaps

I bet money that Andrew - using the assumed name Astrid - told the "hunters" about Sharon & the MC. I think Andrew is driven by thoughts of revenge - probably wants the MC go nuts and turns on Astrid & the archon. That could explain why amateurs are involved instead of real hunters.

 

[bosp]

Agreed. Except I still don't believe it was astrid that told the amateurs. Only later will we be able to put it to rest i hope

Are you talking about the same Astrid that spilled the beans to Archon about Laurie the first chance she got and insisted on Laurie be killed, MC given to her and Sharon enthralled by archon?

Oh boy, if anything Astrid is capable of mischief without any remorse whatsoever.
Her giving info to the hunters is in within her standard MO.

About the only thing that can straighten her behavior is the new (dev has no choice but to introduce it for several reasons) MCs mighty dickslap power

 

[Raptus Puellae]

Ayhsel there's a second generation vampiress that would fit the description of Dream Girl, Zillah "the beautiful", what's interesting is that she's believed to be the sire of the antedeluvians with obfuscate and auspex, isn;t that exactely what our MC has?

 

[Ayhsel]

considering there is already a "Laurie lover or slave" variable, the game doesn't have to be all roses and rainbows. Sharon is certainly one to try her best to keep her humanity, but she doesn't try to impose her values onto the MC. Advise him yes, but she is not forcing him. And enthralling Carmen is the easy choice to make in this situation. Get rid of a threat, get information regarding their enemies and current mission, take care of MC's blue balls (which is why she sent him there in the first place). There is obviously going to be a choice like with Laurie on how to treat Carmen if she does become a thrall, so you guys don't have to white knight for her in this hypothetical discussion.

I agree from the point of rationality that that would be the best to do. Only reason why I am having trouble with this choice is a literature point of view: it feels like abusing a solution to a problem. We did the same with Laurie. So are we just going go turn every single human that learns into thralls? Sharon has her thrall, Mc has his thrall and nobody wants Merrick to have such a cute thrall (let's be honest here ). So I agree from the point of view of logic, I disagree from the point of view of story.
Outright killing her would be much simple too. But that definitely does not fit character of Sharon and MC.

So many posters worried about poor carmen just cause she is hot af. Lol i truly don't think astrid told them at all. I look forward to some kind of punishment for carmen. Pet would be fitting. She can't be released knowing as little as she does anyway

I would never stop laurie from learning with merrick. Again when it comes to carmen my mc wouldnt ever see a chick that is both stupid and naive and tried to kill him but if that kind of woman is your thing that's cool.

She really does not appear to be evil to me, not that I would care if she did. And yes, she tried to kill MC. But I'm pretty sure than when you are a vampire you cannot hold a grudge to everyone that try to kill you. And if you want to make her suffer, the real punishment would be making her what she (currently) hates.
And nothing she did is stupid. With what've seen we know that she is grieving. Totally justifiable reason to want to kill someone.
MC was way more stupid and if you want selfish when he did not cut Laurie off. He not only put her in danger, he put Sharon in danger and himself just because of his selfishness of not wanting Laurie to think bad of him. "if you love them, let them go" have a special meaning here.

that's the same kind of logic as that of people stopppijg Marrick from teaching Laurie, you don't see the bigger picture, if Carmen becomes a pet/thrall/blood doll, she will become just that, but if she will be more, Sharon would have a rival for MC's affection and will have to try harder.

Yes. Carmen another vampire would be really nice. The potential conflict between the characters sounds delicious. Again, all the potential problems I mentioned before, but I would like that to happen.

And again about Astrid not being the one sharon said the reason if I remember correctly is astrid cares about self preservation than to do something that stupid. Maybe I'm wrong or misunderstood but I trust Sharon who stuck her neck out for my mc rather than that waste of a beautiful body carmen any day.

I also have my doubts it was really Astrid. Why? because Carmen really seems to believe it. And it was obvious she was manipulated.

Except that Astrid, and even the Archon, was highly pissed that Sharon wasn't going to be punished. Get pissed enough and all thoughts of self preservation goes out the window. Astrid wants the MC for herself, and she wants Sharon punished. Sharon, for all that she is, is also a bit naive in thinking Astrid would never do something stupid. Sorry, but I can't buy off on the whole 'she probably just pulled a name out of the hat.' Professional hunters could possibly know the names of the higher up vamps but the amateurs? Hardly.

Please, neither the archon neither Astrid care a shit about Sharon getting punished because of the Laurie filtration. Both of them were using the event to further their goals: Astrid was more interested in getting her hands on MC, as she kept pushing for that in the meeting. Archon wants to control Sharon, and was trying to take advantage of that. Thanks Marcus of ruining his plans. But it was pretty obvious that there was hardly any need for a big punishment under normal circumstances, according to the other vampires present in that meeting.

I bet money that Andrew - using the assumed name Astrid - told the "hunters" about Sharon & the MC. I think Andrew is driven by thoughts of revenge - probably wants the MC go nuts and turns on Astrid & the archon. That could explain why amateurs are involved instead of real hunters.

Please tell me you are joking? Andrew would never act in a way to put Sharon in danger. Like, at all. And not just because of the enthrallment, he really seems to care about her.

Ayhsel there's a second generation vampiress that would fit the description of Dream Girl, Zillah "the beautiful", what's interesting is that she's believed to be the sire of the antedeluvians with obfuscate and auspex, isn;t that exactely what our MC has?

Oh yes I thought about that. It would be amazing if that is the case. Thing is, MC would not just be powerful, but would be a truly ridiculous monster if that is the case. The problem with making MC too powerful is that at some point all problems can be resolved by MC forcing everyone to do as he wants by pure will. You threat Sharon, you die. You scare Laurie, you die. You give Andrew a cold cup of coffee after he was awake all day taking care of me and my mistress needs, you won't die, but seriously, you're fucked. True, I am exaggerating, as MC does not seem to have such a personality, but one of the things that makes this novel so good would be totally lost if MC is superman: the idea that if MC fucks up, he is dead. So far, we have seen our team several times acting like their lifes are in danger, taking precautions and such.

 

[B-52reloaded]

I agree from the point of rationality that that would be the best to do. Only reason why I am having trouble with this choice is a literature point of view: it feels like abusing a solution to a problem. We did the same with Laurie. So are we just going go turn every single human that learns into thralls? Sharon has her thrall, Mc has his thrall and nobody wants to have such a cute thrall (let's be honest here ). So I agree from the point of view of logic, I disagree from the point of view of story. Or outright kill her, much simpler. But that definitely does not fit character of Sharon and MC.


She really does not appear to be evil to me, not that I would care if she did. And yes, she tried to kill MC. But I'm pretty sure than when you are a vampire you cannot hold a grudge to everyone that try to kill you. And if you want to make her suffer, the real punishment would be making her what she (currently) hates.
And nothing she did is stupid. With what've seen we know that she is grieving. Totally justifiable reason to want to kill someone.
MC was way more stupid and if you want selfish when he did not cut Laurie off. NOW that was stupid. He not only put her in danger, he put Sharon in danger and himself just because of his selfishness of not wanting Laurie to think bad of him. "if you love them, let them go" have a special meaning here.

Yes. Carmen another vampire would be really nice. The potential conflict between the characters sounds delicious. Again, all the potential problems I mentioned before, but I would like that to happen.

I also have my doubts it was really Astrid. Why? because Carmen really seems to believe it. And it was obvious she was manipulated.

Please, neither the archon neither Astrid care a shit about Sharon getting punished because of the Laurie filtration. Both of them were using the event to further their goals: Astrid was more interested in getting her hands on MC, as she kept pushing for that in the meeting. Archon wants to control Sharon, and was trying to take advantage of that. Thanks Marcus of ruining his plans. But it was pretty obvious that there was hardly any need for a big punishment under normal circumstances, according to the other vampires present in that meeting.

Please tell me you are joking? Andrew would never act in a way to put Sharon in danger. Like, at all. And not just because of the enthrallment, he really seems to care about her.

Oh yes I thought about that. It would be amazing if that is the case. Thing is, MC would not just be powerful, but would be a truly ridiculous monster is that is the case. The problem with making MC too powerful is that at some point all problems can be resolved by MC forcing everyone to do as he wants by pure will. You threat Sharon, you die. You scare Laurie, you die. You give Andrew a cold cup of coffee after he was awake all day taking care of me and my mistress needs, you won't die, but seriously, you're fucked. True, I am exaggerating, as MC does not seem to have such a personality, but one of the things that makes this novel so good would be totally lost if MC is superman: the idea that if MC fucks up, he is dead. So far, we have seen our team several times acting like their lifes are in danger, taking precautions and such.

But if Andrew orchestrated the whole think he of all people would know that Sharon is in no real danger from that amateurs ... he just wants to put sow some division between the vamps according to "divide et impera" - and that would be an easy way to get even with the archon and Astrid and all the shitty vamps he thinks responsible for his daughters demise!

 

[Raptus Puellae]

Yes. Carmen another vampire would be really nice. The potential conflict between the characters sounds delicious. Again, all the potential problems I mentioned before, but I would like that to happen.

what if a vampiress MC was really close was tempted into diablerising him?

Please tell me you are joking? Andrew would never act in a way to put Sharon in danger. Like, at all. And not just because of the enthrallment, he really seems to care about her.

and if he did, Carmen would recognise him

You threat Sharon, you die. You scare Laurie, you die.

that sounds like a good rule of thumb

 

[Ayhsel]

But if Andrew orchestrated the whole think he of all people would know that Sharon is in no real danger from that amateurs ... he just wants to put sow some division between the vamps according to "divide et impera" - and that would be an easy way to get even with the archon and Astrid and all the shitty vamps he thinks responsible for his daughters demise!

Telling a vamp of vampire hunters no matter how amateurish is putting her in danger. They may not be a threat, but the may bring others which are. And seriously, Andrew would never go behind Sharon, even for her well being. He is enthralled.

And you seem to be jumping points to use the demise of her daughter, if that is what happened to her. Remember, that shit happened several years ago and we don't even know if it was in the same city. Why would he risk his sire, who he clearly loves in a non romantic way beyond the enthrallment, to potentially hurt some people he does not even know are related to his daughter disappearance. So far the game depicted him as extremely cautious and quite quick with his mind. Why now take such weird action?

Again, all hypothesis so potentially you could be right, but it would be a really ridiculous twist in the story.

what if a vampiress MC was really close was tempted into diablerising him?

Can you elaborate? I don't think I follow.

 

[Raptus Puellae]

Can you elaborate? I don't think I follow.

let's say MC turns Carmen for example and she will have an uge for blood, and will be tempted into increasing her generation by drinking MC's blood

 

[Ayhsel]

let's say MC turns Carmen for example and she will have an uge for blood, and will be tempted into increasing her generation by drinking MC's blood

Well if she tries to diablerize us (is that how you turn diablerie in to a verb?), no matter how cute she is, she must die. She would be a vampire daughter of MC, so what she is doing is trying to kill her vampire family. That is NOT something you just forget. Besides, diablerie is strong taboo in all vampire society. Anyone knowing she tried would lead to her demise.

Now seriously, even if MC becomes her sire I doubt so much that would be the path chosen. Carmen looks to me that she would be the standard "ex enemy turned ally" character. So she starts by distrusting MC and MC will little by little gain her trust. She trying to diablerize MC kind of gives all reason for MC to just outright kill her. After all, MC does not care for her.

If you want to create such a conflict scenario with diablerie, Laurie would be a better candidate for that. A Laurie conflicted between her feelings for MC and her adiction to his blood could do for that. At the same time, if would be harder for MC to outright kill her out of their shared past. The same solution to this problem that we did with Carmen, is not available from story building perspective.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I love all the discussions from this little ol' beautiful vn

 

[Raptus Puellae]

If you want to create such a conflict scenario with diablerie,

no, what I want for Carmen is for her first feeding to be some good, clean, cozy meal... no dirty drunkard hobos, no std infested hookers

 

[Ayhsel]

I love all the discussions from this little ol' beautiful vn

Me too!

no, what I want for Carmen is for her first feeding to be some good, clean, cozy meal... no dirty drunkard hobos, no std infested hookers

Yeah, that was a shitty move on Sharon. She had the power to get us some nice club babe. But she didn't.

What about making her feed on Laurie for her first time?

 

[Raptus Puellae]

What about making her feed on Laurie for her first time?

If the choice is presented, I won't attack LikesBlondes, but I won't take it... Laurie is a girlfriend and not a blood bag

 

[Ayhsel]

If the choice is presented, I won't attack LikesBlondes, but I won't take it... Laurie is a girlfriend and not a blood bag

From what I know, getting feed upon is actually super pleasant. Unless you are getting bitten by a Giovanni.

 

[Raziel_8]

I also have my doubts it was really Astrid. Why? because Carmen really seems to believe it. And it was obvious she was manipulated.

Thats one reason, the other is neither Astrid nor the Archon seems like their suicidal, if it would come out they set up Hunters no matter how amateurish, they would have a blood hunt on their heads...

Oh yes I thought about that. It would be amazing if that is the case. Thing is, MC would not just be powerful, but would be a truly ridiculous monster if that is the case. The problem with making MC too powerful is that at some point all problems can be resolved by MC forcing everyone to do as he wants by pure will. You threat Sharon, you die. You scare Laurie, you die. You give Andrew a cold cup of coffee after he was awake all day taking care of me and my mistress needs, you won't die, but seriously, you're fucked. True, I am exaggerating, as MC does not seem to have such a personality, but one of the things that makes this novel so good would be totally lost if MC is superman: the idea that if MC fucks up, he is dead. So far, we have seen our team several times acting like their lifes are in danger, taking precautions and such.

Well he would become incredible powerfull, but the beauty in the dreams as well as his sire would be still far ahead.
Also it would take a lot of time, probably centuries, to master this kind of power and the age of a vamp also greatly influence his/her power not only generation.
So even if MC is a possible 3th or 4th generation i doubt he will become superman anytime soon.

And you seem to be jumping points to use the demise of her daughter, if that is what happened to her. Remember, that shit happened several years ago and we don't even know if it was in the same city. Why would he risk his sire, who he clearly loves in a non romantic way beyond the enthrallment, to potentially hurt some people he does not even know are related to his daughter disappearance. So far the game depicted him as extremely cautious and quite quick with his mind. Why now take such weird action?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Sharon say it happend in the southern district of the city and the Archon of that district banished her in the end ?
So i would asume that this Archon (apparently also bald) is responsible for the disappearance of Andrews daughter

 

[Raptus Puellae]

Well he would become incredible powerfull, but the beauty in the dreams as well as his sire would be still far ahead.
Also it would take a lot of time, probably centuries, to master this kind of power and the age of a vamp also greatly influence his/her power not only generation.
So even if MC is a possible 3th or 4th generation i doubt he will become superman anytime soon.

there is always someone stronger, and MC was a DJ, not a fighter so he lacks the experience

 

[Ayhsel]

Well he would become incredible powerfull, but the beauty in the dreams as well as his sire would be still far ahead.
Also it would take a lot of time, probably centuries, to master this kind of power and the age of a vamp also greatly influence his/her power not only generation.
So even if MC is a possible 3th or 4th generation i doubt he will become superman anytime soon.

Indeed, I mentioned a few pages back that age not just generation is important to "power levels". I was just pointing out a potential problem. I want him to become OP, but I want him to happen slowly, so that the novel can really spam out a long story instead of just getting right to the top of the chain.

The underlying assumption still is red dream beauty is very old very powerful vamp ancestor, sire is very old very power vampire. It could be that MC is 4th generation assuming the beauty is 2nd (red dream beauty 2nd, sire 3rd, MC 4th). In fact, if you allow her to be first vampire MC could be antediluvian (3rd). But for now, all assumptions.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Sharon say it happend in the southern district of the city and the Archon of that district banished her in the end ?
So i would asume that this Archon (apparently also bald) is responsible for the disappearance of Andrews daughter

I really don't remember that part. So I totally concede that point. But it was still 60/70 years ago. We don't even know if Archon was the same that time ago. And we don't even know IF the archon was involved. At least I only remember Sharon mentioning she disappeared. So the rest of the analysis I think holds true, even if we know now where it happened.

 

[Raptus Puellae]

I really don't remember that part. So I totally concede that point. But it was still 60/70 years ago. We don't even know if Archon was the same that time ago. And we don't even know IF the archon was involved. At least I only remember Sharon mentioning she disappeared. So the rest of the analysis I think holds true, even if we know now where it happened.

Sharon said that Andrew's daughter was dying and she wanted to save her by feeding her her blood, the archon (a different one) found out and punished Sharon and took the girl away, I believe Andrew is feeling gratitude towards Sharon for her attempt at saving his daughter

 

[Raziel_8]

really don't remember that part. So I totally concede that point. But it was still 60/70 years ago. We don't even know if Archon was the same that time ago. And we don't even know IF the archon was involved. At least I only remember Sharon mentioning she disappeared. So the rest of the analysis I think holds true, even if we know now where it happened.

True, just saying Astrid and the current Archon have most likely nothing to do with it at all, so revenge again those would be pointless.
Beside that i agree with u, Andrew would never bring Sharon in any danger at least not intentionally,
which should be obvious from his reaction when Sharon get hurt in the woods.

 

[Raptus Puellae]

Well yes but we could see the exactly opposite too, since someone got Andrews Daughter because of what Sharon has done, the possible is still there that he hate Sharon for all this, but feared that he is just not strong enough to Kill her and thats why he wanted be her Thrall so he can stay always close to her and when the time comes he will try it ... well Andrew is good trained since he wasn´t even caught on cam when he came back, maybe someone made a Deal and trained him so if he manage to get her out of the way he get his Daughter back ... would be atleast a nice plot too

if he wanted to kill Sharon, all he had to do is do it in daylight