VN Ren'Py Rebirth [Ep.5 Update 13] [LikesBlondes]

[Keemy]

Anyone got access to the progress update O.O

 

[Ayhsel]

Anyone got access to the progress update O.O

I posted yesterday. Go back a page or two.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

I highly doubt Miri will pay any other important role. For her to have an important presence you need to develop whispers, so making her too big in the story would increase the amount of paths to create, as it is not mandatory in the story to obtain whispers.

It's important for the new Archon of Scottstown (ie. Sharon) and/or her partner (ie. the MC) to have agents in the local police force. They can pass along to the MC information on trespassing vampires and potential masquerade breaches. They can also assist in covering masquerade breaches up as well as with investigations. That role is tailor made for Miri, whether or not the MC has already used Whispers.

I am just hoping to see Sharon dressed for the occasion. A real beauty in a high class dress.

Me too!

And hear Laurie's comments on that. Somehow, she will find an underhanded comment to make , I am sure of it.

Absolutely!

For me the way it was spelled every time suggested that using the powers is making you more and more inhuman. I even posted before that in some sense if there is no cost to choosing the powers, then why even give us the choice? just give me the power if I meet the requirements.

We haven't seen any evidence of that as yet, and that would be a significant departure from the inspirational material. Sharon goes out of her way to maintain her humanity. Astrid is the opposite despite looking very human.

 

[Ayhsel]

We haven't seen any evidence of that as yet, and that would be a significant departure from the inspirational material. Sharon goes out of her way to maintain her humanity. Astrid is the opposite despite looking very human.

I know. I was just mentioning a feeling I got the first time that happened. Not that I had evidence supporting it.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Astrid is the opposite despite looking very human.

What do you mean by this? Don't all Vamps look human minus the Nos?

 

[Ayhsel]

What do you mean by this? Don't all Vamps look human minus the Nos?

My understanding is that that is not true. Tzimisce can look as real monsters, for example.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

My understanding is that that is not true. Tzimisce can look as real monsters, for example.

So they can alter their appearance to look human unlike the Nos?

 

[Arigon]

Tzimisce have a talent and discipline for Fleshcrafting. Usually this results in the Tzimisce and their servants in looking pretty monstrous. It is possible to combine 2,5,20 humans into one flesh crafted war forms. Visiccitude has certain rote powers. One of which allows the Tzimisce to take on a warform that can go toe to toe with most anything. As I mentioned before(but the light bulb didn’t pop on till just now) what Sharon described in the woods encounter sounded like a were wolf or a war form Tzimisce. Gangrel also have Protean which gives them a war form. Not as awesome as Tzimisce or Crinos werewolf tho.

however.....
Reading the above and remembering what Sharon said about Astrid’s kind can look human.....

Astrid was in Scottstown grabbing Gregor. Astrid could well be the Tzimisce war form that roughed up Susan but didn’t kill her because that is too easy. Astrid doesn’t even have to be female. It could be the “He” that Vision Girl mentions and wonders if the MC fresh made would be strong enough to kill the Tzimisce elder Astrid.

Holy shit I think that is it. Sharon probably never saw Astrid’s war form. Just her morphing ability. Astrid lost her play thing Sharon so she wants her humiliated and to take her prize MC.

yup. In the absence of a better candidate that’s my call.

 

[Ayhsel]

Astrid doesn’t even have to be female. It could be the “He” that Vision Girl mentions and wonders if the MC fresh made would be strong enough to kill the Tzimisce elder Astrid.

Don't say that! you are confusing me sexually!

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

What do you mean by this? Don't all Vamps look human minus the Nos?

Aside from the Nos, vampires look human at first glance. Nevertheless there are several tells that upon closer look give away the fact that they're no longer alive. Astrid doesn't have some of these tells, probably because of her clan, given Sharon's reference to "her kind" being that way. It's a major reason, when combined with her sensuality and tendency to hang on Marcius's arm in his court, why I suspect her of being this game's equivalent to a Toreador. She comes across as something of an elysium harpy.

So they can alter their appearance to look human unlike the Nos?

Nos can mask themselves with illusion via obfuscate. They don't actually change their physical appearance. Anyone who can pierce the illusion sees what they actually look like. Tzimisce have the ability to shape their bodies (and the bodies of others) to their whims. It's not an illusion. Those that use it to modify themselves tend to be very inhuman looking however, inhumanly beautiful, inhumanly monstrous, or just plain inhuman.

 

[Ayhsel]

Nos can mask themselves with illusion via obfuscate. They don't actually change their physical appearance. Anyone who can pierce the illusion sees what they actually look like. Tzimisce have the ability to shape their bodies (and the bodies of others) to their whims. It's not an illusion. Those that use it to modify themselves tend to be very inhuman looking however, inhumanly beautiful, inhumanly monstrous, or just plain inhuman.

I always thought that the whole "nos don't actually become invincible but just make themselves not be noticed through mental illusion" was a bad approach. Specially with the current world, where in any room a single person can have as much as 3 or 4 cameras, wouldn't they be discovered in 5 minutes?

"hey look what this hidden camera that I set up to control the teen babysitter we hired (definitely not to spy on her cause she is hot, way hotter than my wife) captured? a freaking monster"

A hope Rebirth's invincibility actually make sense..

 

[Maviarab]

"hey look what this hidden camera to control the teen babysitter we hired (definitely not to spy on her cause she is hot, way hotter than my wife) captured? a freaking monster"

 

[c3p0]

"hey look what this hidden camera that I set up to control the teen babysitter we hired (definitely not to spy on her cause she is hot, way hotter than my wife) captured? a freaking monster"

"I know honey and what she can do with her tongue, well, how was your day?"

 

[Arigon]

Aside from the Nos, vampires look human at first glance. Nevertheless there are several tells that upon closer look give away the fact that they're no longer alive. Astrid doesn't have some of these tells, probably because of her clan, given Sharon's reference to "her kind" being that way. It's a major reason, when combined with her sensuality and tendency to hang on Marcius's arm in his court, why I suspect her of being this game's equivalent to a Toreador. She comes across as something of an elysium harpy.



Nos can mask themselves with illusion via obfuscate. They don't actually change their physical appearance. Anyone who can pierce the illusion sees what they actually look like. Tzimisce have the ability to shape their bodies (and the bodies of others) to their whims. It's not an illusion. Those that use it to modify themselves tend to be very inhuman looking however, inhumanly beautiful, inhumanly monstrous, or just plain inhuman.

Yes Tzimisce generally look inhuman but they don’t have to, that is the generalized look. They could make themselves look pretty much any way that they desire. Something beautiful, something inhuman, something monstrous. It depends on the whim of the individual.
Obfuscation does give the power to do many things. It is insanely powerful. You can use it to look human in the case of the Nos. Yes Auspex can pierce this. At the much higher level you can remove yourself from memory, from history. Auspex can’t undo that.

I thought Astrid was Toreador at first also. (Reference a lot of my earlier posts). However her kind having the ability to look alive (which is what Sharon was saying in the morgue implies a lot of things. Toreador while in torpor have nothing that would let them look different in any fashion. Presence requires consciousness to use. I agree she is a harpy. I think her Masquerade has a Masquerade. I think she is a Tzimisce elder with lots of powers. She can mimic whatever clan and short of a Templar grabbing some blood there are not a lot of ways to know for sure.

I’m out on a limb here because of the woods event, because Astrid has Gregor which places her at the hospital in the woods, and because the war form of the Tzimisce, combined with Celerity matches the criteria for what happened to Sharon.

Yes Tzimisce could alter themselves to be a beautiful female instead of an insanely monstrous male. So Astrid could be a deep spy for some other group

This would then match nicely with Vision Girl asking herself if he will be strong enough to defeat him.

Big Stuffed Tiger raises valid points but I’m still sticking with my theory. Too many things point to her being something more than just Toreador. She Could be a Toreador with Visiccitude however, which gives the flesh crafting ability.

interestingly in VtM The Long Night, a toreador somehow uses Proteanwhich she learned from Gangrels (wolf boys) to make her followers more beautiful. (Not a canon use of the power)

In any case a lot of boxes get ticked if Astrid is a male, flesh crafted to look perfectly human, with the war form and celerity, and she has the means,motive, and one of the hunters in her house (Gregor). That places her in the woods, at the time of Sharon’s assault.
That is still my theory.

one additional tidbit, remember the oddity of Marcius’ tongue? That could be flesh crafted. Hmmmmm

 

[Ayhsel]

Yes Tzimisce generally look inhuman but they don’t have to, that is the generalized look. They could make themselves look pretty much any way that they desire. Something beautiful, something inhuman, something monstrous. It depends on the whim of the individual.
Obfuscation does give the power to do many things. It is insanely powerful. You can use it to look human in the case of the Nos. Yes Auspex can pierce this. At the much higher level you can remove yourself from memory, from history. Auspex can’t undo that.

I thought Astrid was Toreador at first also. (Reference a lot of my earlier posts). However her kind having the ability to look alive (which is what Sharon was saying in the morgue implies a lot of things. Toreador while in torpor have nothing that would let them look different in any fashion. Presence requires consciousness to use. I agree she is a harpy. I think her Masquerade has a Masquerade. I think she is a Tzimisce elder with lots of powers. She can mimic whatever clan and short of a Templar grabbing some blood there are not a lot of ways to know for sure.

I’m out on a limb here because of the woods event, because Astrid has Gregor which places her at the hospital in the woods, and because the war form of the Tzimisce, combined with Celerity matches the criteria for what happened to Sharon.

Yes Tzimisce could alter themselves to be a beautiful female instead of an insanely monstrous male. So Astrid could be a deep spy for some other group

This would then match nicely with Vision Girl asking herself if he will be strong enough to defeat him.

Big Stuffed Tiger raises valid points but I’m still sticking with my theory. Too many things point to her being something more than just Toreador. She Could be a Toreador with Visiccitude however, which gives the flesh crafting ability.

interestingly in VtM The Long Night, a toreador somehow uses Proteanwhich she learned from Gangrels (wolf boys) to make her followers more beautiful. (Not a canon use of the power)

In any case a lot of boxes get ticked if Astrid is a male, flesh crafted to look perfectly human, with the war form and celerity, and she has the means,motive, and one of the hunters in her house (Gregor). That places her in the woods, at the time of Sharon’s assault.
That is still my theory.

one additional tidbit, remember the oddity of Marcius’ tongue? That could be flesh crafted. Hmmmmm

This was the first time I recall suggesting Astrid could be a Tzimisce. July 2020

The real problem with Astrid is Andrew's daughter is theory is Andrew himself asking Sharon if she wants him to let Astrid in the sun when they go retrieve her. So unless Astrid looks totally different to how she looked, I would expect that Andrew who has been searching for his daughter all this time, would have known.

Besides really, make no sense. Sharon was feeding her blood to save her, so that implies that Sharon was turned before Andrew's daughter, which was potentially very young. Astrid looks like a grown up, she would have need to disappear and come back to Sharon years later.. But thing is like this, she was very ill. If she kept drinking blood to survive, she would not have aged, if she did not take vampire blood, it is very unlikely she would have turned to be the beauty she is under multiple sclerosis development. Well, unless she is a Tzimisce (one comment by Sharon when they found her in the morgue suggest she might be, though).

I merely mentioned it precisely because of the "can look like that". So I like you are giving it a thought.

But, making Astrid a male, with all due respect my friend, for the sake of my heterosexuality, FUCK THAT!

I am already a horny chocolate vampire turned evil genius puppy. To add sexuality confused to that is simply too much.

 

[Arigon]

This was the first time I recall suggesting Astrid could be a Tzimisce. July 2020

I merely mentioned it precisely because of the "can look like that". So I like you are giving it a thought.

But, making Astrid a male, with all due respect my friend, for the sake of my heterosexuality, FUCK THAT!

I am already a horny chocolate vampire turned evil genius puppy. To add sexuality confused to that is simply too much.

Lol

Well with surgery today, short of a DNA test it can be difficult to tell a girl from a trans male. Yeah that’s a low blow. . Take heart, if non binary Astrid or female Astrid or male Astrid is gender hopping and or whatever, she could add a tongue and or fangs and or saw blades down in her female looking coochie

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

I always thought that the whole "nos don't actually become invincible but just make themselves not be noticed through mental illusion" was a bad approach. Specially with the current world, where in any room a single person can have as much as 3 or 4 cameras, wouldn't they be discovered in 5 minutes?

"hey look what this hidden camera that I set up to control the teen babysitter we hired (definitely not to spy on her cause she is hot, way hotter than my wife) captured? a freaking monster"

A hope Rebirth's invincibility actually make sense..

I agree. Security cameras were big, bulky things in the early 90's, camera memory was very limited, and the internet was still several years away when the inspirational material was originally developed. Now cameras are everywhere, memory is practically unlimited once you factor in "the Cloud", and software exists to do pattern searches on that memory from a thousand miles away. It would be a nightmare for any Nos who left the sewer tunnels.

Yes Tzimisce generally look inhuman but they don’t have to, that is the generalized look. They could make themselves look pretty much any way that they desire. Something beautiful, something inhuman, something monstrous. It depends on the whim of the individual.

Except the point about Astrid wasn't her beauty, but that she looked very "human", even while in torpor, and that "her kind" were that way according to Sharon. I can't imagine anyone saying that the Tzimisce are a particularly human looking clan. Most would say they were very inhuman.

I thought Astrid was Toreador at first also. (Reference a lot of my earlier posts). However her kind having the ability to look alive (which is what Sharon was saying in the morgue implies a lot of things. Toreador while in torpor have nothing that would let them look different in any fashion.

The game fluff has always implied that Toreador are very human-like, although there was never any mechanic to back that up.

Presence requires consciousness to use. I agree she is a harpy. I think her Masquerade has a Masquerade. I think she is a Tzimisce elder with lots of powers. She can mimic whatever clan and short of a Templar grabbing some blood there are not a lot of ways to know for sure.

Astrid has never changed her shape, until she does I'll consider Toreador to be more likely.

I’m out on a limb here because of the woods event, because Astrid has Gregor which places her at the hospital in the woods, and because the war form of the Tzimisce, combined with Celerity matches the criteria for what happened to Sharon.

You think it was Astrid who attacked Sharon out in the woods?

Yes Tzimisce could alter themselves to be a beautiful female instead of an insanely monstrous male. So Astrid could be a deep spy for some other group

Or she could simply be naturally beautiful. A lot of Toreador are embraced because of their looks. The notable thing here is that Astrid looks incredibly human, and Sharon says that "her kind" are that way. So it's implied that the human look applies to her clan, not just her.

Big Stuffed Tiger raises valid points but I’m still sticking with my theory. Too many things point to her being something more than just Toreador. She Could be a Toreador with Visiccitude however, which gives the flesh crafting ability.

As I understand it your reasons for believing Astrid is a Tzim are

1) She's good looking, and
2) She looks very human.

Is that it? You implied above that you had more reasons when you said "too many things point to her being something more than just Toreador." Those two things point more towards Toreador than Tzimisce, especially given that Sharon heavily implied that (2) doesn't just apply to Astrid but her entire clan.

interestingly in VtM The Long Night, a toreador somehow uses Proteanwhich she learned from Gangrels (wolf boys) to make her followers more beautiful. (Not a canon use of the power)

If you ingest another clan's blood you can pick up their powers, although in the case of thaumaturgy you must still receive instruction. I recall a Giovanni that that picked up protean by drinking gangrel blood in the Giovanni Chronicles, and a second Giovanni who diablerized the first Giovanni and picked up protean in the process.

In any case a lot of boxes get ticked if Astrid is a male,

Blech! I'm with Ayhsel on this one.

flesh crafted to look perfectly human, with the war form and celerity, and she has the means,motive, and one of the hunters in her house (Gregor). That places her in the woods, at the time of Sharon’s assault.
That is still my theory.

one additional tidbit, remember the oddity of Marcius’ tongue? That could be flesh crafted. Hmmmmm

This is too far out in conjecture land for me to consider until there is evidence in the game to back it up. At this point we don't even know if there is a clan based around a vicissitude-like power that is similar to the Tzim in the game.

 

[Arigon]

Look within your quote for * to mark my comments please.

I agree. Security cameras were big, bulky things in the early 90's, camera memory was very limited, and the internet was still several years away when the inspirational material was originally developed. Now cameras are everywhere, memory is practically unlimited once you factor in "the Cloud", and software exists to do pattern searches on that memory from a thousand miles away. It would be a nightmare for any Nos who left the sewer tunnels.



Except the point about Astrid wasn't her beauty, but that she looked very "human", even while in torpor, and that "her kind" were that way according to Sharon. I can't imagine anyone saying that the Tzimisce are a particularly human looking clan. Most would say they were very inhuman.

***No I understood the point and state it, I am asserting that she has crafted her/himself to look very human like. This would not necessarily go away if in torpor where as some presence powers that make her seem like your very human charismatic best friend require being conscious.

The game fluff has always implied that Toreador are very human-like, although there was never any mechanic to back that up.

***Game fluff never states that any vampire, unless they have the merit, or are intentionally masking it, can look perfectly human. I am simply going with a theory that fits the points we have so far.

Astrid has never changed her shape, until she does I'll consider Toreador to be more likely.

*** I am postulating the following-
She was in Scottstown after sending the huntards there to embarrass or impede Sharon, to capture the 3rd hunter which would prevent Sharon from a perfect record. She is older and more powerful than Sharon, and I am taking it another step further and giving her teeth so to speak, or really claws in this case.

You think it was Astrid who attacked Sharon out in the woods?

*** yes I am postulating that she did that. Further I am now going to pin Merrick's disappearance on her/him as well.

Or she could simply be naturally beautiful. A lot of Toreador are embraced because of their looks. The notable thing here is that Astrid looks incredibly human, and Sharon says that "her kind" are that way. So it's implied that the human look applies to her clan, not just her.

*** I do not take that same position. Sharon may know that Astrid is a different bloodline, and may know they can shift forms, so that may be why she says "her kind".

As I understand it your reasons for believing Astrid is a Tzim are

1) She's good looking, and *** no she can be sculpted in any way she /he wants. In my theory it is a human seeming female.
2) She looks very human. *** see above
*3) she is too involved with the Scottstown action.
*4) She sold out Sharon and company to hunters
*5) She has Gregor, and no mention was made in court of a missing hunter
*6) conveniently Merrick is missing-perhaps dead but hoping he is in Nos hangout, or prisoner of Astrid.
*7) What hit Sharon was bigger, faster and way meaner than the feral Nos. You just described a warform tzmisice, warform gangrel, or a werewolf. I am going with Tzimisce


Is that it? You implied above that you had more reasons when you said "too many things point to her being something more than just Toreador." Those two things point more towards Toreador than Tzimisce, especially given that Sharon heavily implied that (2) doesn't just apply to Astrid but her entire clan.

*** see above

If you ingest another clan's blood you can pick up their powers, although in the case of thaumaturgy you must still receive instruction. I recall a Giovanni that that picked up protean by drinking gangrel blood in the Giovanni Chronicles, and a second Giovanni who diablerized the first Giovanni and picked up protean in the process.

*** Yes you can, which would lend itself to Astrid being whatever she is but picked up Visiccitude along the way.


Blech! I'm with Ayhsel on this one. ***



This is too far out in conjecture land for me to consider until there is evidence in the game to back it up. At this point we don't even know if there is a clan based around a vicissitude-like power that is similar to the Tzim in the game.

*** as stated I am going out on a limb here. It fits in a lot of ways to check my investigative boxes.

Peace

 

[kajidiablo]

heh this is like the definition of no porn but great story, not that i say that as a bad thing. thoroughly enjoyed playing through the first chapter and what's there of the current 2nd chapter

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

I almost forgot the feral Nos said this about MC right before she attacked him.