- Thread starter monroe
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- Nov 23, 2017
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If you've watched True Blood, you can think of Bill as a 9th or 10th gen, Eric Northman as an 8th gen, his sire as a 7th gen, and Russell as a 6th gen. Basically, 6th gens are insanely powerful, but 5th and 4th gens would make even 6th gens look weak in comparison (like we're talking 6th gens being the equivalent of Hulk and Thor from Infinity War, and then the 5th gen would equal Thanos with a few infinity stones level of power).Ok so our MC is a 6th gen (correct me if i wrong) Lets say in the universe of Rebirthwere would that put him on the power scale of known vampire
- Dec 4, 2017
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The major problem with the MC is, while he has potent blood he lacks age, as his combat trainer said speed and strenght comes with age.Ok so our MC is a 6th gen (correct me if i wrong) Lets say in the universe of Rebirth
He also lacks combat expirience, skill proficiency, knowlege of powers etc. So i'd say every typical 8/9th gen Elder with a few centuries would rather easily mop the flor with him, his potent blood can compensate to a certain degree but the age/experience gap isn't taken lightly.
- Aug 27, 2020
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ok genealogy as best as we can guess based on a lot of theory crafting and hints.
It appears that the Ancients are occupying 2 positions in the world.
First-insanely powerful vampires
Second-the sources of the Myths for the pantheons of Gods. In the case of our city we are in, most are Greco-Roman in nature.
Astrid is one stand out as her name can be tied to Norse mythology.
If we use the Greek Pantheon as a rough guide, you would have the Titans as the Second Generation. Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera would be 3rd generation, or because of diablerie could be second generation. Artemis, aka Vision Girl, would be 4th most likely..... the idea of her as a 3rd gen is apocalyptic in scope, and her being a 4-5k year old 4th gen is not much better.
Calisto would be 5th generation, either childe, or may as well be childe of Artemis, as she historically was her high priestess and divine from both sides of the blood. She would also be 3-5k years old as well. We know from Fabian, who is likely descended through Apollo->Hecate->Fabian with Zeus as the common tie to Calisto's line which would be Zeus->Artemis->Calisto, with Apollo and Artemis being twins in Greek mythology, Artemis the slightly elder of the two.
This would make the MC 6th generation, as Fabian would be as well.
Understand that this is pure mental masturbation on the part of all of us, but it makes sense at least as far as it goes. Hera cursed Calisto in Greek mythology to the form of the Bear, and Calisto is tied to Lycanas who presumably is also one of the bloodline founders for the wolf bloods as Markus calls them. We know Calisto has a more powerful form of the Protean Claws than the wolf boys has which of course would be fitting for a huge as Ursa Major figure.
We know from Fabian that Calisto had bred before, and apparently something happened which caused the idea of her doing that again, to be shocking to Fabian. That ties in again to Greek mythology as Hera had set up typical vengeance type shit for Calisto as she was a nymph who lost her virginity and bore Zeus yet another child. This Childe attempted to kill Calisto in mythology, but was stopped by Zeus who put both the hunter and mother in the stars as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. In vampire argot this would lead one to think her first childe tried to destroy and or diablerize her, but failed and now she has sired the MC.
3rd Gen vampire, 2nd Gen vampires and the founder all are beyond the basic statistic system. They are so powerful that it defies the imagination. As an example, as screwed up as WW End Times books were, Ravnos rose up in Pakistan, and took some nukes, which only succeeded in pissing him off. It took the concerted efforts of the Mage Technocracy to take him out, (in theory because Ravnos is the master of Illusions) by using space based mirrors to fry him with the sun. That has all been more or less disavowed by those who count as far as establishing Canon, since Requiem failed utterly, so they rebooted Masquerade in the 5th edition format, which has a protracted Gehenna event going on in the cradle of civilization, and elders are being summoned by something called The Beckoning. It seems limited to 8th generation or lower vampires at least 300 years of age. All others seem to be beneath the level of the call.
4th generation vampires who are of decent age will have 9 dots in each attribute. Each dot roughly represents a doubling of capability of the dot before it, so yeah, with modern vampires capped at 5 dots for 8th generation and higher, it pretty much means that a 4th gen would annihilate mounds of their younger kindred. 5th generation are capped at 8 dots. 6th generation at 7 dots and 7th generation at 6 dots. This applies to knowledge, skills and abilities, attributes such as strength and stamina, or intelligence and Charisma etc, as well as in their blood powers called disciplines. At 6 dots and higher, some truly spectacular effects are possible with disciplines. So our MC is in theory a 6th generation vampire. He is very young, but gets a huge boost based on sire, so he could in fact have some powers at insane levels, and some attributes.
Think of it like this....
Captain America has 5s in all physical attributes. He is the epitome of the max human. Someone like the Beast, or perhaps Spiderman would be 6 dots in physical traits, and mental traits and social traits, possibly that is.... The next step up from a Spiderman or Beast is pretty scary. That would be our MC, and his Sire would be up in those cosmic levels of power, with Artemis being deity level of power.
Hope this helps.
It appears that the Ancients are occupying 2 positions in the world.
First-insanely powerful vampires
Second-the sources of the Myths for the pantheons of Gods. In the case of our city we are in, most are Greco-Roman in nature.
Astrid is one stand out as her name can be tied to Norse mythology.
If we use the Greek Pantheon as a rough guide, you would have the Titans as the Second Generation. Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera would be 3rd generation, or because of diablerie could be second generation. Artemis, aka Vision Girl, would be 4th most likely..... the idea of her as a 3rd gen is apocalyptic in scope, and her being a 4-5k year old 4th gen is not much better.
Calisto would be 5th generation, either childe, or may as well be childe of Artemis, as she historically was her high priestess and divine from both sides of the blood. She would also be 3-5k years old as well. We know from Fabian, who is likely descended through Apollo->Hecate->Fabian with Zeus as the common tie to Calisto's line which would be Zeus->Artemis->Calisto, with Apollo and Artemis being twins in Greek mythology, Artemis the slightly elder of the two.
This would make the MC 6th generation, as Fabian would be as well.
Understand that this is pure mental masturbation on the part of all of us, but it makes sense at least as far as it goes. Hera cursed Calisto in Greek mythology to the form of the Bear, and Calisto is tied to Lycanas who presumably is also one of the bloodline founders for the wolf bloods as Markus calls them. We know Calisto has a more powerful form of the Protean Claws than the wolf boys has which of course would be fitting for a huge as Ursa Major figure.
We know from Fabian that Calisto had bred before, and apparently something happened which caused the idea of her doing that again, to be shocking to Fabian. That ties in again to Greek mythology as Hera had set up typical vengeance type shit for Calisto as she was a nymph who lost her virginity and bore Zeus yet another child. This Childe attempted to kill Calisto in mythology, but was stopped by Zeus who put both the hunter and mother in the stars as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. In vampire argot this would lead one to think her first childe tried to destroy and or diablerize her, but failed and now she has sired the MC.
3rd Gen vampire, 2nd Gen vampires and the founder all are beyond the basic statistic system. They are so powerful that it defies the imagination. As an example, as screwed up as WW End Times books were, Ravnos rose up in Pakistan, and took some nukes, which only succeeded in pissing him off. It took the concerted efforts of the Mage Technocracy to take him out, (in theory because Ravnos is the master of Illusions) by using space based mirrors to fry him with the sun. That has all been more or less disavowed by those who count as far as establishing Canon, since Requiem failed utterly, so they rebooted Masquerade in the 5th edition format, which has a protracted Gehenna event going on in the cradle of civilization, and elders are being summoned by something called The Beckoning. It seems limited to 8th generation or lower vampires at least 300 years of age. All others seem to be beneath the level of the call.
4th generation vampires who are of decent age will have 9 dots in each attribute. Each dot roughly represents a doubling of capability of the dot before it, so yeah, with modern vampires capped at 5 dots for 8th generation and higher, it pretty much means that a 4th gen would annihilate mounds of their younger kindred. 5th generation are capped at 8 dots. 6th generation at 7 dots and 7th generation at 6 dots. This applies to knowledge, skills and abilities, attributes such as strength and stamina, or intelligence and Charisma etc, as well as in their blood powers called disciplines. At 6 dots and higher, some truly spectacular effects are possible with disciplines. So our MC is in theory a 6th generation vampire. He is very young, but gets a huge boost based on sire, so he could in fact have some powers at insane levels, and some attributes.
Think of it like this....
Captain America has 5s in all physical attributes. He is the epitome of the max human. Someone like the Beast, or perhaps Spiderman would be 6 dots in physical traits, and mental traits and social traits, possibly that is.... The next step up from a Spiderman or Beast is pretty scary. That would be our MC, and his Sire would be up in those cosmic levels of power, with Artemis being deity level of power.
Hope this helps.
- Aug 27, 2020
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Using the rules provided for creating a vampire of that generation, fresh out of the egg would mean that once he gets blooded and stretches his wings just a bit, he will outstrip those lesser beings in some regards. They might have wiped him when he was still peeling off the caul so to speak, but he will be able to do tremendous damage and exert a lot of will very quickly. Age will grant advantages. Blood will grant greater advantages in some ways, and much greater Potential.
- Jan 3, 2018
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When you say "age", do you mean the human age that they were, when they were turned?
Or the actual amount of years they have existed for as a creature - human+vamp?
Was just thinking on the age/experience v potential thing.
Potential is something that is seized upon, or not.
It can be provoked, circumstantially. It can be recognised and taught, self or 3rd party. It can be wasted/never fully discovered, too.
Experience comes with time, but also from exposure to/interaction with situations.
Time that is used poorly equates to bad experience, so it's not so much the time that equals more, it's how it has been used.
More time does not, necessarily, mean better spent.
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It's not an established fact. When connected, there are several data points that point towards Calisto being a very old vampire descendant of Artemis's who used to serve her directly and probably still does. Could Calisto be a 1,000 year old great-grandchilde instead of a 2,500 year old childe? Yes it's possible. My gut tells me that Calisto was probably born in ancient Greece though, where she was embraced by the goddess she served, making her the actual Calisto the Greek legend was based on. That would very much be in keeping with the spirit of the inspirational material.
As Raziel_8 has mentioned, while the MC has more potential than those elders, he's had very little time to develop that potential. He'd have to hope that they underestimate him, giving him the opportunity to surprise them. His edges are that he has a bigger gas/blood tank then they do and the ability to draw on more blood points simultaneously than they do. These blood points can be used to heal, boost his stats, and even potentially give him superhuman speed if he has the celerity discipline, and it appears he does although he doesn't realize it yet. Of course they can do these things too, they just can't spend them as quickly, nor do they have as many to spend.Ok so our MC is a 6th gen (correct me if i wrong) Lets say in the universe of Rebirth
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- Jan 16, 2020
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It's not confirmed or anything but I strongly suspect so. No way those two are the same gen or age. Black haired dream girl is clearly ANCIENT ancient, she's way older then any vamp introduced so far including Calisto. I recall Merrick telling MC that an Ancient vamp would probably be in the middle east however we do know that black haired dream girl is buried somewhere in their region based off the tale of Frank the Nos.
Dream girl may even be the potential clan founder for Calisto & MC's bloodline though I'm a bit iffy on that theory.
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Yep, and who would Artemis want watching over her vulnerable slumbering body if not her most powerful and loyal
BTW, is anyone else wondering if Sharon might be Astrid's childe? I've got to throw that possibility out there although I'm feeling a bit ambivalent on this one. Gregor calling Sharon Astrid's "greatest disappointment" and saying that she was disgusted with Sharon right now set me to wondering. There is definitely a story of some sort there between them however...
Finally, does anyone know what Gregor meant by "Madea to the teeth."?????? That line left me scratching my head. A Google search has me wondering if this is a pop culture reference to a 2019 film, A Madea Family Funeral.
Finally, does anyone know what Gregor meant by "Madea to the teeth."?????? That line left me scratching my head. A Google search has me wondering if this is a pop culture reference to a 2019 film, A Madea Family Funeral.
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- Jan 16, 2020
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Sharon stated that she got turned shorty before the incident with Andrews daughter IIRC. Also I don't think she knew Astrid at that time. Might've came after.
Yup. I recall that too.
What was it that gave you that impression?
Yup. It's only Astrid's wording as passed on by Gregor that's making me wonder.
- Oct 16, 2019
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So Medea killed her own children out of anger at the father/lover. Interesting.
So why does Astrid think of Medea regarding Sharon? Sharon turned Astrid, essentially killing her, and she resents her for it? Seems unlikely, I don't recall but I don't think Sharon is that much older than Astrid is she?
Think I'm gonna have to go through the game again, I don't remember it well enough. OR brush up on my Greek mythology lol.
Still, very curious why Astrid would refer to Sharon as Medea.
- Aug 27, 2020
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Good find
Medea to the teeth.... So, it could be that what he is saying is that it is total war between Astrid (grrrrr BigStuffedTiger making me rethink) so Astrid may be saying, that she is pulling off the gloves and now it is death to her childe Sharon??!
That would totally mess with one of my major theories, but it also makes things interesting in other ways.
Time to go read more Greek and Norse history. I keep after Norse because Astrid is directly a figure from Norse mythology, whose name means Beautiful Goddess.... which she is a doll, no doubt....
More to follow I am sure.
Medea to the teeth.... So, it could be that what he is saying is that it is total war between Astrid (grrrrr BigStuffedTiger making me rethink) so Astrid may be saying, that she is pulling off the gloves and now it is death to her childe Sharon??!
That would totally mess with one of my major theories, but it also makes things interesting in other ways.
Time to go read more Greek and Norse history. I keep after Norse because Astrid is directly a figure from Norse mythology, whose name means Beautiful Goddess.... which she is a doll, no doubt....
More to follow I am sure.
I read through that Wiki before posting and I had and continue to have difficulty connecting it to the phrase "a Madea to the teeth". I doubt very much that Sharon cooked Astrid's children and served them up to Astrid for dinner without Astrid realizing it.
At least it would make sense in that context because Tyler Perry's Madea apparently hits someone in the teeth and knocks their teeth out.I have no idea.
I just doubt that it's a reference to a Tyler Perry movie.
Me too. The best I can come up with is that a "Madea to the teeth' is a huge and emotionally devastating kick in the teeth, like being told you just ate your beloved children for dinner by your embittered spouse who has secretly murdered them and cooked them up for you. But I have a very hard time imagining Sharon doing something like that to Astrid or anyone else for that matter.
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- Nov 20, 2017
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I think that Sharon is Astrids childe.
With the reference to the Greeks goods again, my theory is simple:
Sharon is Astrid childe. Sharon and Astrid nearly blood bounded each other (at least from MC vision it looks likely), but some major leftdown occured. Like that Sharon helped Andrews daughter against the rule of the Camarilla and it comes out. Therefore Sharon was punished and Astrid as her sire also.
From what I know about Astrid this was against her core principle she has and likely try to teach to Sharon. Therefore she is on vengeance. And thus "Madea to the teeth" would fit.
Yet my loose end is, if this is true than Astrid could even be the real Madea. Nothing here yet that make this impossible. But this means that she is, along with Callisto and Artemis one of the very old vampire and another Methuselah.
Would make her very dangerous and probably the only one, beside Artemis, that have a chance against Callisto.
So either we would have three Methuselah (Astrid/Madea, Callisto and Artemis) or three Methuselah (Astrid/Madea, Callisto and MC) and an Antediluvian (Artemis). If so, I think the game will have some epic cluster fucked shit level with all this power players here.
Much likely the catfights will become deadly before long.
I don't think so. I think the only real old girls are Calisto and the red dream girl.I think that Sharon is Astrids childe.
With the reference to the Greeks goods again, my theory is simple:
Sharon is Astrid childe. Sharon and Astrid nearly blood bounded each other (at least from MC vision it looks likely), but some major leftdown occured. Like that Sharon helped Andrews daughter against the rule of the Camarilla and it comes out. Therefore Sharon was punished and Astrid as her sire also.
From what I know about Astrid this was against her core principle she has and likely try to teach to Sharon. Therefore she is on vengeance. And thus "Madea to the teeth" would fit.
Yet my loose end is, if this is true than Astrid could even be the real Madea. Nothing here yet that make this impossible. But this means that she is, along with Callisto and Artemis one of the very old vampire and another Methuselah.
Would make her very dangerous and probably the only one, beside Artemis, that have a chance against Callisto.
So either we would have three Methuselah (Astrid/Madea, Callisto and Artemis) or three Methuselah (Astrid/Madea, Callisto and MC) and an Antediluvian (Artemis). If so, I think the game will have some epic cluster fucked shit level with all this power players here.
Much likely the catfights will become deadly before long.
I think it's just an expression. Quick google search of the phrase brought me to a quote from The Lion in Winter. A movie from 1968.