VN Ren'Py Rick and Morty: Another Way Home [r4.0] [Night Mirror]

[kimlana]

Regarding A), I don't see how weighting rigging models can't be altered algorithmically based on what sliced image(s) a code base pulls

The original Unity version of the Ferdafs game (A Way Back Home) used transformational animation. It took static still images like the one below of individual body parts, and then stretched or rotated them according to a script ("move BOOB_LEFT up 2 pixels", "move NIPPLE_LEFT up 3 pixels") to create an animation. Basically what Flash did. The problem is that it takes processing power to do these animations, which increases performance overhead, or can cause lags or stutters. But if you edit the still images before the transformation animation is played, the changes will show up in the resulting animation. Night Mirror was able to create a non-condom version of existing scenes by making the condom image (red arrow pointing at it) transparent so the animation would play without it.

The current Unity version of the game apparently uses a new system that captures the changes frame by frame and only saves those. This is something that is less processing intensive (more akin to playing back a video than mathematically transforming 2D images). But now the animation source material looks like this:


You'd need to reverse-engineer how the Unity engine animates the scene in order to recreate the source images so you could then modify them and have the game play them back so you could capture the changes. I don't think anyone has the secret sauce for this currently.

EDIT: Not to mention, since the only export is frame capturing the final animation as it plays back, someone would have to manually edit breast or stomach appearance on like 300 individual frames for a ten-second animation and that's probably not realistic.

 

[Night Mirror]

Hmm, I had assumed that the png slices for animations were being assembled and rigged via a 3D model, even if really viewed as 2D (like stellaris's paper doll portraits). But I sit corrected!

The animations in the Unity game are done via Live2D (I think that is the main reason Unity was used, for the API to interface with that).

For Renpy, the best I can do is play them as video files (Renpy does now support Live2D, but there are lots of issues trying to use it). I do have a way to do PNG substitution in Unity (then capture the altered results as a video file), but this has lots of hurdles/challenges as well.

The current Unity version of the game apparently uses a new system that captures the changes frame by frame and only saves those. This is something that is less processing intensive (more akin to playing back a video than mathematically transforming 2D images). But now the animations look like this:

As far as I can see, animations have not been changed, and still use the Live2D texture cut outs (with separate parts mapped onto a Unity object and using a frame by frame animation file to scale/rotate/transform). So I can still do texture replacement. However, again, there are some problems/limitations. If I change breast size for example, the nipples are often separate objects, so they will float in the air if I make them smaller?

The jumbled up puzzle image (and Atlas image) is the compression now used for static images. This means I can't pull them directly out of the game anymore, but have to screen capture them instead.

 

[slowpersun]

The animations in the Unity game are done via Live2D (I think that is the main reason Unity was used, for the API to interface with that).

For Renpy, the best I can do is play them as video files (Renpy does now support Live2D, but there are lots of issues trying to use it). I do have a way to do PNG substitution in Unity (then capture the altered results as a video file), but this has lots of hurdles/challenges as well.

Yeah, watching Vren's various attempts working with converting Lab Rats 2's (https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-v0-51-1-vren.7260/) Ren'py codebase to support Live2D have certainly been entertaining, to say the least. But also a VERY long process. In the unlikely case you were interested, I'm sure they might share some tips and pointers, but VERY unlikely they would just straight up gift their (un?)finished version of an API directly. Still, interesting to hear about the underlying issues.

 

[Night Mirror]

Still, interesting to hear about the underlying issues.

There are a few really big issues with Live2D in renpy.

First, is that it currently doesn't work for Android, so that means I would have to stop offering that port, or take out the animation for Android, or have a video version for android? Lots of extra effort/problems.

Second, and this is a big one, I don't have the full Live2D implementation files. I can recover the animation instructions from Unity and texture files, but I'm missing some other major parts. These are also not directly compatible (the Unity game is using an older version of Live2D (new version is Cubisim)), and while I spent some time trying to convert them I couldn't find a good way to do it. Thus I'd have to rebuild the animations from the bottom up to work in Renpy.

The big plus sides if I could get it to work are file size (MAJOR size reduction, the videos files are huge), and more flexibility. And while it may be something I explore more in the future, I don't have Live2D (it's subscriptionware, so it can fuck itself). For the foreseeable future, animation are going to remain video files.

But I will check out Lab Rats 2 and see what they did.

 

[Suspicious_Cephalopod]

Let me put it another way, have you ever heard of identical twins with the same first name? Why do you suppose that doesn't happen? Wild Summer is Summer's identical twin. The only saving grace to tell them apart right now is that Wild Summer hasn't had a day at the salon to tame that hairstyle (both of 'em). Were she ever to do that, to become "civilized" how do we as players even know which one is which? Easiest way (other than different name color) is different name. Even just a subtle variation on the original name, like Mortimer vs Morticia.

Why does Morticia insist on being called "Morticia" instead of "Morty" or "Female Morty" or "Morty without a dick"? Because Morticia views herself as a unique individual and not just Morty Variant #23423. That was part of her character design. Morticia is obviously a much more popular and well-developed character. I suggest Wild Summer would feel the same way if she wasn't just a background character.

I actually know a pair of john's, both brothers, both twins. They have different hair, it's really not hard to tell them apart. I'll agree that's arguing from an anecdote, but it obviously does happen. It was dumb 'first son' naming tradition that did them in. So using that logic, keeping wild summers wild hair (and I don't see why the model would get updated in this game) should be enough. We do one more 'which summer did you mean? oh, me?' routine, and then everyone settles into business like usual.

I thought that we called morticia that because it's her name. Maybe i'm an idiot, but I assumed that's what they called her in whatever dimension she came from. Really, it was the fans that named her, so we're lucky we didn't get something stupider, like 'mortabel'. In fact, now that I mention it, the fact that both of the 'female mortys' have their own names raises the question of how many alternate mortys actually have different names. We call them 'evil morty' or whatever but most of the mortys we see are shaped by their interactions with ricks. There must be more than one who goes by 'mortimer' but I don't think we've seen a 'mortimer morty' in the show. So from that perspective, 'wild summer' is fine and wouldn't need changing. The 'wild' is just a dimensional identifier.

I asked for feedback to get a feel for what people want, and is seems overwhelmingly that the responses have been, "don't include the name change option".

While it is part of the scene (and doesn't just come out of nowhere) it's by no means critical. Mostly, the intent was to give more choice to players (and expose the rename system to players that may have missed it). Again, the rename itself was optional, with branched response for not changing, for picking a preset name, or a custom name.

Look, don't listen to me, if I am somehow the deciding argument. I'm just some asshole on a porn forum. Don't let the artistic integrity of your fan remake be ruined by 'fan feedback' - if you had, i'd have a lot more piss in my mouth by now. If you want a rename option for any reason, then just do it. It seems like your heart was set on it already, so just do it. Let people call her catwoman or autumn or whatever non-'canon' name they want. Get her to call you daddy. Spit in her mouth. I don't care, you do you. I don't think it's really necessary in-universe, but obviously there is disagreement there just on this board. So do whatever makes the story that you want to tell. If you think it's going to add something to make a scene out of her getting baptized again, go for it. This is all a non-canon fanwork so there's really no reason for me to get butthurt over it.

 

[Night Mirror]

Look, don't listen to me, if I am somehow the deciding argument

You are not the deciding factor, pretty much every response to this idea was "no".

Don't let the artistic integrity of your fan remake be ruined by 'fan feedback'

If I didn't want feedback on the idea, I wouldn't have asked for it.

It seems like your heart was set on it already

Eh, my heart really isn't set on anything. I just sort of do what I feel like when I think it will be fun. This seemed fun, but I guess not to many people? Not really a big deal.

 

[kimlana]

I thought that we called morticia that because it's her name. Maybe i'm an idiot, but I assumed that's what they called her in whatever dimension she came from.

Speaking from the standpoint of this game, there's a running gag where Rick (the one that accompanied her) refers to Morticia as "Morty". From Rick's perspective (and perhaps early seasons of the show) Morty's are interchangeable. You lose one for whatever reason, you pop down to Morty-Mart and get a new one. Later, realizing he needs to distinguish them by reference when yelling for them, Rick refers to Morticia as "dickless Morty" etc.

Morticia is her name, but it's the fact that she makes a big deal of that in the face of Rick calling her Morty which makes it part of her character. The game could have been written with her called Morty the same as MC, but then it becomes your mentioned "which summer did you mean? oh, me?" routine x 100.

Would Summer from the game be defensive about her name/identity? I suspect few people care because Summer is one of the less-favorite characters. Her entanglement with Ethan makes her pretty hard to simp for--unless you have a cuck fetish maybe? So if we had to pick a character to double up on, Summer seems as good a choice as any, imo.

 

[aaronminus]

You are not the deciding factor, pretty much every response to this idea was "no".


If I didn't want feedback on the idea, I wouldn't have asked for it.


Eh, my heart really isn't set on anything. I just sort of do what I feel like when I think it will be fun. This seemed fun, but I guess not to many people? Not really a big deal.

Hardline no: WatsonTouya, Perfidy, Suspicious_Cephalopod
Soft no/don’t care: RandyTyr
True Neutral: Wibbled, Kenta16807
Soft yes/don’t care: Xx21savagexX, kimlana… Night Mirror?
Hardline yes: me ;_;

So if we had to pick a character to double up on, Summer seems as good a choice as any, imo.

I don’t think Wild Summer feels like doubling up on Summer… she’s a different character (is “The Collector” doubling up on Morty?). In my opinion it’s quite the opposite, right now she overshadows Summer in terms of likability/narrative intrigue (of course, changing her name doesn’t fix the root cause of that… but it does alleviate a little bit.)

RE: Morticia debate
I always assumed that her given name was Morty. Her saying “I told you, I prefer to be called Morticia!” Implies that it’s a self chosen name, or at the very least, “Morty” would be a valid way of addressing her if she didn’t mind it.

 

[kimlana]

I don’t think Wild Summer feels like doubling up on Summer

I meant naming-wise. If we are going to have the "Summer, no the other Summer" bit then might as well go with her. It makes more sense two identical females to experience name confusion than gendercrossed ones like Morty/Morti or Rick/FRick.

I always assumed that her given name was Morty

Oooo, there's a deep lore dive. If she was born naturally, I don't think there's any chance she would have been named "Mortimer". "Morticia" seems the only plausible choice in an alternate-universe kind of way.

I agree the term "prefer" has come to mean "as opposed to given name" in the modern context, but I see the line as Rick is calling her Morty but she's hearing "Morti" and prefers her full name "Morticia" for the added clarity (the joke is lost in written form of course but work audibly).

 

[aaronminus]

I meant naming-wise. If we are going to have the "Summer, no the other Summer" bit then might as well go with her. It makes more sense two identical females to experience name confusion than gendercrossed ones like Morty/Morti or Rick/FRick.



Oooo, there's a deep lore dive. If she was born naturally, I don't think there's any chance she would have been named "Mortimer". "Morticia" seems the only plausible choice in an alternate-universe kind of way.

I agree the term "prefer" has come to mean "as opposed to given name" in the modern context, but I see the line as Rick is calling her Morty but she's hearing "Morti" and prefers her full name "Morticia" for the added clarity (the joke is lost in written form of course but work audibly).

Haha, yeah it’s unlikely that her given name was “Mortimer”, unless her being a girl was a surprise/Jerry fucked up the birth certificate/The Council of Ricks that force Beths and Jerrys to get together supplanted the name in their heads

I assumed her legal name was actually “Morty”, but her hearing “Morti” is a valid interpretation too.

 

[kimlana]

force Beths and Jerrys to get together supplanted the name in their heads

"Hey, w-*URRP*-what should we call all these implausibly naive pubescent boys we're making?"

"Nobody cares, just pick some old Jewish comedy writer's name."

 

[aaronminus]

Out of universe reason (only cause I feel like nerding out):
My theory is the names that Justin and Dan came up with started from Doc and Marty, but settled to where they are due to a conscious use of the “Kiki/Bouba Effect”.

Rick has a sharp sound to it, prepping you for his abrasiveness. His hair is spiky, just like how “Kiki” looks.

Morty has a rounded/smooth sound to it, he feels approachable but lacks conviction. His hair is round and blobby, like how “Bouba” looks.
Kiki/Bouba is a popular theory of design now, it’s why animated character designs look so much more rounded today. (Also why graphic design values round and simple over sharp or detailed).

In universe?:
I wouldn’t put it past Rick to choose his grandson’s name simply because it sounds good paired with his name. He certainly was obsessed with how it sounded in the early episodes. “Rick and Morticia just doesn’t have the right ring to it!”

For the record, this kind of analysis was why I liked “Autumn”. Aside from the obvious relation to “Summer”, it matches her hair color to the stereotypical leaf color and holiday color, and she comes from a place of death.

 

[Suspicious_Cephalopod]

Hardline no: WatsonTouya, Perfidy, Suspicious_Cephalopod

My dick doesn't even make a hard line. Honestly more content is more content. Even if I wouldn't use it, if there's somebody else that would, i'm all for it. It's already a mechanic for the other characters. Might as well expand it to everyone so we can start calling jerry 'GAYLORD' like in the old pokemon days. I'm all for that.

 

[kimlana]

Might as well expand it to everyone

Jerry was probably excluded from renaming because of the unique name color scheme. Those hardcoded color values might be a bit of effort to make work with arbitrary length names, or disable if custom names are chosen.

Ethan is also excluded from naming policy because he's a cuck, so the story bulls picked his name for him and he's too cucked to change it.

 

[Night Mirror]

Might as well expand it to everyone so we can start calling jerry 'GAYLORD' like in the old pokemon days. I'm all for that.

Jerry was probably excluded from renaming because of the unique name color scheme

Every character on the Do Over menu (Jerry included) can be renamed. But, this rename is not a plot element, it is a game feature for people that prefer custom names. Wild Summer's segment was meant to be the only plot element rename.

Ethan is also excluded from naming policy because he's a cuck

And because he is too much of a background character. Mostly, the characters on the Do Over menu are just the people Morty fucks (except for Rick, who fucks him over, and Jerry, who get's fucked over).

 

[wibbled]

One of the things that has always driven me a bit nuts with this game/VN (Ferdafs version, I mean) ... is the amount of inconsistencies. The art style has changed quite a lot, and sometimes changes during a scene. I also wish the characters bodies, didn't change so much, from the standing poses, to the scene art work. Not to mention some glaring continuity errors. I can mostly overlook it, but sometimes the changes, and errors are so jarring that it makes it hard to maintain immersion (insert joke/insult here). Not a big complaint, though. I'd rather have a slightly flawed R&M game/VN, than not at all.

 

[Night Mirror]

The art style has changed quite a lot, and sometimes changes during a scene. I also wish the characters bodies, didn't change so much, from the standing poses, to the scene art work. Not to mention some glaring continuity errors.

When I first started playing the Unity version in the long, long ago, this change in art style was the thing that bothered me the most. Character's in scenes don't look like themselves (bigger boobs and more fleshy bodies), and at first it was really distracting. Now I'm just used to it, I guess? Every now and again it jumps out at me, but I just expect things to be that way (also, being much more involved with the artwork behind the scenes I "understand" a bit better why things are how they are).

The continuity errors on the other hand were (still are) a major annoyance for me. I've tried my best of fix as many as I can find, but I know some are still there (probably glaringly obvious to everyone but me). Also, Morty's original attitude was a huge turn off for me, and I often found myself ignoring his lines and thinking up my own instead (which, funny enough, I still do even in this version, ignoring lines I wrote/changed and subbing in new ones/new actions in my head (I guess it will never be good enough...)).

But I absolutely agree with your conclusion. The art is still good. The story still has it's moments, even with its flaws. The content is enjoyable for me (if imperfect). And I keep finding myself coming back to replay it (even after a day of working non-stop on it sometimes).

I'm very happy the Unity game exists (even if I don't play it anymore). I'm really thankful it's still going (and not abandoned like so many other projects). And I often find myself astounded by how many people have said they enjoy this game (I didn't even know if F95zone would approve it's posting when I original shared, let alone what people would think of it), and I'm immensely glad it has been received (mostly) positively.

There have been a few other R&M game attempts and they were all... not good. I think Rick And Morty - The Pervetiest Central Finite Curve is the first other R&M game I've seen for a while that I enjoyed, and while that project is also imperfect (hopefully Ormuz89 doesn't split every update into a new game...), to me at least, it does feel like it has some real protentional to be another game I look forward to new release on, and possibly throw some support at as well.

Because I want more R&M (porn), and I'm really hoping with the upcoming season we get more people excited to make porn for it!

 

[wibbled]

When I first started playing the Unity version in the long, long ago, this change in art style was the thing that bothered me the most. Character's in scenes don't look like themselves (bigger boobs and more fleshy bodies), and at first it was really distracting. Now I'm just used to it, I guess? Every now and again it jumps out at me, but I just expect things to be that way (also, being much more involved with the artwork behind the scenes I "understand" a bit better why things are how they are).

The continuity errors on the other hand were (still are) a major annoyance for me. I've tried my best of fix as many as I can find, but I know some are still there (probably glaringly obvious to everyone but me). Also, Morty's original attitude was a huge turn off for me, and I often found myself ignoring his lines and thinking up my own instead (which, funny enough, I still do even in this version, ignoring lines I wrote/changed and subbing in new ones/new actions in my head (I guess it will never be good enough...)).

But I absolutely agree with your conclusion. The art is still good. The story still has it's moments, even with its flaws. The content is enjoyable for me (if imperfect). And I keep finding myself coming back to replay it (even after a day of working non-stop on it sometimes).

I'm very happy the Unity game exists (even if I don't play it anymore). I'm really thankful it's still going (and not abandoned like so many other projects). And I often find myself astounded by how many people have said they enjoy this game (I didn't even know if F95zone would approve it's posting when I original shared, let alone what people would think of it), and I'm immensely glad it has been received (mostly) positively.

There have been a few other R&M game attempts and they were all... not good. I think Rick And Morty - The Pervetiest Central Finite Curve is the first other R&M game I've seen for a while that I enjoyed, and while that project is also imperfect (hopefully Ormuz89 doesn't split every update into a new game...), to me at least, it does feel like it has some real protentional to be another game I look forward to new release on, and possibly throw some support at as well.

Because I want more R&M (porn), and I'm really hoping with the upcoming season we get more people excited to make porn for it!

I'm similar with the script, I often change it in my head, but also, now that you told me how to do it, I love going in and tinkering with the dialogue, sometimes I even change aspects of the story and order of the CGs drastically, to make it play the way I would prefer. For example, Beth in my version is much sluttier, and not so afraid to admit it to Morty.

Regarding your version, for me, it's such a good take on the original, with so many game-play changing fixes, that I only ever play the Unity version when it's updated, while I keenly await your version.

I looked at Rick And Morty - The Pervetiest Central Finite Curve. It's not bad, and has potential, but your version is currently miles ahead, and I think they'll struggle to catch up, but I wish them well, and hope they continue to work on it.

Also, regarding your version ... whether Ferdafs knows it or not, I think he probably owes you a little thanks ... in that the Renpy version has kept a lot of people interested in the game, who might have otherwise been put off by the downside of the Unity engine. Not to mention, I didn't like the sandbox thing myself. I much prefer the linear nature of yours.

I can't wait to see the new season. Not long to go now.

 

[Night Mirror]

It's not bad, and has potential, but your version is currently miles ahead

True, but I do have two MAJOR advantages. First, I've had way more time to work on this, and second, I don't have to make (most) of the art or primary story, I just have to adapt and implement it. And while not no effort to do, it is WAY less then making it from scratch. So, while RAM:TPCFC is behind, and has some growing pains for sure, it is still a game I'm looking forward to move of (which is a very, very small list of games for me).

Also, regarding your version ... whether Ferdafs knows it or not, I think he probably owes you a little thanks ... in that the Renpy version has kept a lot of people interested in the game, who might have otherwise been put off by the downside of the Unity engine. Not to mention, I didn't like the sandbox thing myself. I much prefer the linear nature of yours.

That is one of the main reasons I ended up sharing it. I wanted people to experience what I thought was good art and story (but not great game systems (and more than a few people have said they gave up on the Unity version due to it's issues, but did end up enjoying the game in the Renpy format)), and I REALLY want it to keep going. I want more Rick and Morty porn! (well, I mean, I want more Summer/Beth/Morticia (with Morty) porn...).

I know a few people have told me they helped support Ferdafs. So, while I don't know how much it has helped, it has done at least something. And we are still getting new/more content, so I call it a win!

 

[slowpersun]

But I will check out Lab Rats 2 and see what they did.

I should add that Vren hasn't released a full version yet, but should be doing a full update soon(ish). Most that has been dropped is basically a tech demo, but who knows, maybe that will be enough!