RPGM Completed Roundscape Adorevia [v6.8 Steam] [Arvus Games]

[Uncle Iroh]

Ai is the future and im here for it great artists will always have work shit artists will have to improve before they start charging for their meager talents. Porn games especially are really held back by art its just too expensive and time consuming for these tiny indie niche projects to have any ambition of scale of narrative with art constraints so strong. The Ai in this particular game is really quite good and gives the game a consistency it did not have previously however the flaws of Ai are still there the souless eyes the small but visible mistakes in anatomy.I think this is where artists can really help a project in the future if even just one artist on staff not a contractor just goes through and edits everything art output could double or tripple without any quality loss. And btw just like with writing code Ai generation is a skill and people are getting better and better at that skill.

Man, this is definitely one of the most unhinged takes I've ever seen. "Less Talented" artists shouldn't charge for their art and art has held back h-games. Take a step back, art is entirely subjective. "Less Talented" art can definitely be way better than more detailed art. It can make a medium more unique, have more charm, be more tailored to the characters and story they portray. Hell, consider Avatar, where my profile pic comes from. The art in that show can be considered as "Bad Art" when it comes to detail. It's simple, cartoonish, and yet holds so much charm and makes it stand out on it's own.

The major reason most people despise AI art isn't just that it takes away opportunities from real artists, whilst also stealing their work. But it creates "art" that is just soulless, riddled with continuity errors, and anatomy issues. And I'll completely debunk you right now on the idea that AI art will improve h-games. We've seen it in the games that have come out, and in this game's attempt right now. The devs use the most basic, "AI art style" that is provided with the engine. A bland, airbrushed style, which yes, you could argue is detailed. But lacks soul and character BECAUSE it's the "AI art style". If everybody uses the same art style, then you lose originality and identity. Which is essential to making your game stand out. And the majority, if not all of the AI h-games we've seen have been crap cash grabs made by devs who are too lazy to go the extra mile to fix errors, ask for a unique art style or do anything. It's basically going to, and has already, bring the h-games version of shovel-ware into the community.

It's such a bad president to allow, and accept. There are ways to do AI right, such as drawing a background and asking the AI to tweak certain aspects of it. Not just tell it to make everything from scratch and leave it at that. Artists deserve the respect they get, they MAKE the styles we come to know and love, forge the personality and charm to mediums we eagerly consume. Pretending that AI is this godsend piece of technology is flat out ignorant, and a dangerous ideology to hold. Just because something is quick and easy, does not make it good. Yes time is an important factor, but it's also something we need in order to make a product the best it can be.

 

[ouda]

i can't recruit jorn the butler

 

[whamos_olrac]

Ai is the future and im here for it great artists will always have work shit artists will have to improve before they start charging for their meager talents. Porn games especially are really held back by art its just too expensive and time consuming for these tiny indie niche projects to have any ambition of scale of narrative with art constraints so strong. The Ai in this particular game is really quite good and gives the game a consistency it did not have previously however the flaws of Ai are still there the souless eyes the small but visible mistakes in anatomy.I think this is where artists can really help a project in the future if even just one artist on staff not a contractor just goes through and edits everything art output could double or tripple without any quality loss. And btw just like with writing code Ai generation is a skill and people are getting better and better at that skill.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as they say. Strictly speaking, there are no "great" nor "shit" artists. Only those who are more recognized. This is evident by some people on this thread who like Furanh's art, who I consider to be "shit" frankly speaking (really sorry for Furanh's fans, but it's a matter of personal taste), while I like Mikiron's, yet some don't consider him to be a "great" artist either. And both of them seem to be well-recognized. And that's fine, because it is a matter of personal taste.

And in regards to porn games being held back by art, have a look at Fleeting Iris somewhere here in F95. It's a long game with lots of content and alternative endings. They're made by Heaven Studios West, a three-person studio, who managed to mostly complete their game with only three artists or so. Sure it's a long and arduous journey, but they have proven that it is possible.

i have to wonder if some of the AI complainers in this forum are blind or they are all struggling artist or somshit.

And in regards to this, the only reason artists are struggling is because they are taken for granted and not appreciated enough. Yet in real life, when shit hits the fan, artists are one of the first people to receive them. Take for example during the war, you think the Nazis burned the paintings of Picasso and humiliated other artists (i.e. The Degenerate Art Exhibition 1937) for no apparent reason? It's because they deemed those works to go against the ideals they were trying to establish.

And earning a name for yourself in the art world is already a challenge in itself. You'll be surprised but there's some politics involved in making a name for yourself, pulling favors here and there, making connections as early as possible. It's easy for you to say that we are struggling, but the reality is that YOU, my good sir, only need to look in the mirror to know why.

 

[astalabistababa]

Why is the gallery so unmanaged? like it doesn't mention what scene

 

[Nerkios]

the perk that should add +10 agility is bugged at the moment, it takes the 1000 gold but it does absolutely nothing

 

[Shamaeth]

Ai is the future and im here for it great artists will always have work shit artists will have to improve before they start charging for their meager talents. Porn games especially are really held back by art its just too expensive and time consuming for these tiny indie niche projects to have any ambition of scale of narrative with art constraints so strong. The Ai in this particular game is really quite good and gives the game a consistency it did not have previously however the flaws of Ai are still there the souless eyes the small but visible mistakes in anatomy.I think this is where artists can really help a project in the future if even just one artist on staff not a contractor just goes through and edits everything art output could double or tripple without any quality loss. And btw just like with writing code Ai generation is a skill and people are getting better and better at that skill.

So, AI is really good but an artist has to clean up the mess caused by AI ?

The real question for me is : why would I pay for a work done by AI ? If it is so cheap and so easy, the subscription fees should be reduced then ? It sounds like a race to the bottom with generic works with no value over time. Even a "mediocre" artist can produce art which has soul.

You seem to avoid the fact that these pictures are soulless and that hurts anyone who is willing to pay. I pay for Tsukinomizu project games because their art is unique. Is it good ? Someone might disagree, even if I like it, and they will have some rational reasons.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Ai is the future and im here for it great artists will always have work shit artists will have to improve before they start charging for their meager talents. Porn games especially are really held back by art its just too expensive and time consuming for these tiny indie niche projects to have any ambition of scale of narrative with art constraints so strong. The Ai in this particular game is really quite good and gives the game a consistency it did not have previously however the flaws of Ai are still there the souless eyes the small but visible mistakes in anatomy.I think this is where artists can really help a project in the future if even just one artist on staff not a contractor just goes through and edits everything art output could double or tripple without any quality loss. And btw just like with writing code Ai generation is a skill and people are getting better and better at that skill.

This is extremely bad take!

Artists learn and improve from what they draw. Look at how Incase or Sabu, or any other great porn artist began - they early works don't hold a candle to what they draw now. If we replace newbie artists with AI under pretext of them drawing shit, there won't be great artists. Because every artist has to learn by practise, which is much harder (perhaprs even impossible) to perform without monetary backing from comissions. And if AI will replace those low-tier comissions, there would be less artists practicing and in the end - less great artists. The result would be exact opposite to your hopes.

AI-pictures in this particular game in most cases are bad. They have lot of glaring anatomical mistakes, overuse of glint or blur, miscoloration and odd expression that do not fit the scene they portray or even how any sentient creature should express their emotion. Characters often look unfocused, cross-eyed, with unreadable expressions like they are in drug-altered state of mind. You could easily check it yourself if you search for my posts here because I regularly post my findings. Its not a question of taste - most of AI-imagery has low quality.

And calling figuring AI input a skill like it is compatible in any way with actual art is laughable. Yes, it is technically a skill, akin to a skill of being polite to a pizzeria you are ordering pizza from versus being good at baking pizza yourself. To call something so comparatively triffling a skill is offense against actual skills that take many times the time and effort than figuring out the inputs. Any regular activity could be called a skill by the wide definition of this term, but people usually abstain from using this word this way because it is insignificant compared to something that takes more time and effort to master.

No, I am sorry, your take is indefensible to me.


My own opinion, in case you wonder, isn't at all anti-AI (which you can also prove by searching for my earlier messages here). AI is a tool - groundbreakingly great and greatly groundbreaking. One that takes time to figure out, one that has limitless potential and one that does a huge work on expanding our creative horizons.

That is, if used rightly.

Using it to propell forward cool project that struggles to find or finance artists - is a great way to use AI. This is, however, isn't such an example.

Devs here are people with time, money and experience to work with actual artists - that we should support if only because of inter-human solidarity, in my opinion. What they did is unsystematically replaced already existing art of variable quality with AI art that in most cases is provably worse - many arguments was made in this thread against it, when people pointed out objective and glaring downsides. What we see here isn't a call from the future, its a greedy and lazy corner-cutting.


Again, I am not against using the AI. One thing is when dev need a ton of new art fast or cheap and therefore uses AI to achieve this result. Another is when established dev team of one of the biggest porngame projects with financial backing from many fans uses AI to just threw away tons of already existing pictures seemingly at random. Not adding something new to the game -wasting time and effort to throw away what already was, regardless of its quality.


I have no idea how you can be apologetic of this.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Thank you.

About the glass coins, I have no idea. I think they're just...there. As filler.

Well, you can sell them for 250 gold each, so extra currency, perhaps? Like all those Souls of Nameless Soldiers from Dark Souls, that you can pop-up when you need souls ASAP?

Though I am reluctant to sell them not knowing what they are for.

 

[Nightguy1]

Man, this is definitely one of the most unhinged takes I've ever seen. "Less Talented" artists shouldn't charge for their art and art has held back h-games. Take a step back, art is entirely subjective. "Less Talented" art can definitely be way better than more detailed art. It can make a medium more unique, have more charm, be more tailored to the characters and story they portray. Hell, consider Avatar, where my profile pic comes from. The art in that show can be considered as "Bad Art" when it comes to detail. It's simple, cartoonish, and yet holds so much charm and makes it stand out on it's own.

The major reason most people despise AI art isn't just that it takes away opportunities from real artists, whilst also stealing their work. But it creates "art" that is just soulless, riddled with continuity errors, and anatomy issues. And I'll completely debunk you right now on the idea that AI art will improve h-games. We've seen it in the games that have come out, and in this game's attempt right now. The devs use the most basic, "AI art style" that is provided with the engine. A bland, airbrushed style, which yes, you could argue is detailed. But lacks soul and character BECAUSE it's the "AI art style". If everybody uses the same art style, then you lose originality and identity. Which is essential to making your game stand out. And the majority, if not all of the AI h-games we've seen have been crap cash grabs made by devs who are too lazy to go the extra mile to fix errors, ask for a unique art style or do anything. It's basically going to, and has already, bring the h-games version of shovel-ware into the community.

It's such a bad president to allow, and accept. There are ways to do AI right, such as drawing a background and asking the AI to tweak certain aspects of it. Not just tell it to make everything from scratch and leave it at that. Artists deserve the respect they get, they MAKE the styles we come to know and love, forge the personality and charm to mediums we eagerly consume. Pretending that AI is this godsend piece of technology is flat out ignorant, and a dangerous ideology to hold. Just because something is quick and easy, does not make it good. Yes time is an important factor, but it's also something we need in order to make a product the best it can be.

Avatar is a million dollar franchise huge fan btw that hired some of the best artists they could get and payed them quite handsomely for their professional talents not sure why you even brought that up.

And just because you say your an artist doesnt mean you have the ability level to sell art as a product in the early days of h games just straight up amateurs could put a price on art because game devs simply had no options they could not pay the hefty fees that artists demand such as the avatar artists you jump to the defense of .

And just like Ue5 has an AI solution to create large detailed worlds that so many games have jump to take advantage of or even starfield thats about to come out AI has reduced the burden on environmental artist so us the consumer can get what we want lots of high quality shit we can feast our eyes on trust me UE5 has not ended environmental artists careers and this wont for cg artists they will just need to be better.

 

[whamos_olrac]

Well, you can sell them for 250 gold each, so extra currency, perhaps? Like all those Souls of Nameless Soldiers from Dark Souls, that you can pop-up when you need souls ASAP?

Though I am reluctant to sell them not knowing what they are for.

Ah, maybe...

To be honest with you I haven't actually thought of that lol. I just stored them throughout my entire playthrough thinking that they might be used for buying super-secret-powerful-items or something in that manner haha. Plus, I recall not buying anything with glass coins, sooo, there's that lol.

EDIT: Fuck me, but there's this area in the castle (can't recall if it's the abyss or training, really sorry) where you can use glass coins to buy upgrades. So, nvm what I said above this. Been a long time since I last finished the game.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Avatar is a million dollar franchise huge fan btw that hired some of the best artists they could get and payed them quite handsomely for their professional talents not sure why you even brought that up.

And just because you say your an artist doesnt mean you have the ability level to sell art as a product in the early days of h games just straight up amateurs could put a price on art because game devs simply had no options they could not pay the hefty fees that artists demand such as the avatar artists you jump to the defense of .

And just like Ue5 has an AI solution to create large detailed worlds that so many games have jump to take advantage of or even starfield thats about to come out AI has reduced the burden on environmental artist so us the consumer can get what we want lots of high quality shit we can feast our eyes on trust me UE5 has not ended environmental artists careers and this wont for cg artists they will just need to be better.

Why the F did you put "avatar artists" and "(porn)game devs" in the same sentence?! How it is even connected to other parts of your message, let alone to the message you are answering to?! Was your message written by AI perchance?

And what environment artists have to do with this whole topic altogether? Why do you think the experience of wholly different type of art with different demands is applicable here?

UE5 has not ended environmental artists careers and this wont for cg artists they will just need to be better.

By God, how could anyone make a take that is so infuriatingly backward?!

If you don't insentify practise of artists - which requires monetary recompense for the vastest amount of time, efforts and sometimes even materials to maintain - artist won't become better. If instead of paying beginner artists comissions to insentify their practise we will use AI "because artists draw shit!!", less artitsts would be practicing. With less artists practicing, we will have less and less great artists - because great artists at some point drew shit themselves!

Why do I have to explain something so glaringly obvious?!

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Ah, maybe...

To be honest with you I haven't actually thought of that lol. I just stored them throughout my entire playthrough thinking that they might be used for buying super-secret-powerful-items or something in that manner haha. Plus, I recall not buying anything with glass coins, sooo, there's that lol.

EDIT: Fuck me, but there's this area in the castle (can't recall if it's the abyss or training, really sorry) where you can use glass coins to buy upgrades. So, nvm what I said above this. Been a long time since I last finished the game.

Oh, thank you very much! And I was leaning to selling them - you were quite in time. Thank you.

 

[Uncle Iroh]

Avatar is a million dollar franchise huge fan btw that hired some of the best artists they could get and payed them quite handsomely for their professional talents not sure why you even brought that up.

And just because you say your an artist doesnt mean you have the ability level to sell art as a product in the early days of h games just straight up amateurs could put a price on art because game devs simply had no options they could not pay the hefty fees that artists demand such as the avatar artists you jump to the defense of .

And just like Ue5 has an AI solution to create large detailed worlds that so many games have jump to take advantage of or even starfield thats about to come out AI has reduced the burden on environmental artist so us the consumer can get what we want lots of high quality shit we can feast our eyes on trust me UE5 has not ended environmental artists careers and this wont for cg artists they will just need to be better.

... Ok,

"not sure why you even brought that up"

I brought it up for the exact reason I stated in the exact same sentence. The art in that show can be considered "bad" art by some due to it's lack of detail. I'll say the exact same thing again; it's simple, cartoonish, and yet holds so much charm and makes it stand out on it's own. AI would not make an art style like that on it's own. It needed artists to conjure it up themselves. Yes avatar is a massive property. It doesn't detract from my point that art that is "bad" in certain aspects, be it colour theory, detail, or popularity. Doesn't mean it can't be amazing in it's own right.

Point 2,

" just because you say your an artist doesn't mean you have the ability level to sell art as a product in the early days of h games "

Unhinged, of course people have the right to sell their own work. It's insane to think otherwise. Just because you don't like their product, doesn't mean you can walk in and say "get lost mate, you can't sell that". Of course they fucking can. YOU can choose not buy it. End of.

Same with the third point really, you've actively chosen to ignore the points I made in order to feed your own beliefs. Fine, if that's what you want to do, go for it. But don't come back with the my exact points as a positive with no flaws when I've literally pointed out the flaws that come with those points.

Anyway, I'll leave it on this note, AI art can make "good art", but it's at the cost of individualism, a lack of variety of styles, non-existent continuity between art pieces, and a mess of errors within the art that people who are using the AI generator can't fix because, shocker, they aren't artists. If you want shovel-ware, a flood of low quality games, and a lack of variety in art, keep fighting the fight for AI and shit on upcoming artists. By definition AI art NEEDS artists to make the art it generates. Any argument to throw artists aside in favour of it is so ignorant of that basic definition.

 

[whamos_olrac]

Oh, thank you very much! And I was leaning to selling them - you were quite in time. Thank you.

You're welcome man haha.

 

[grbt420]

is there some special trigger for tish's first scene with a male mc in the tent? the guide just says 5+ affection after you finish her first quest but she's talking about taking a bath which seems to come after your first session in the guide.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

is there some special trigger for tish's first scene with a male mc in the tent? the guide just says 5+ affection after you finish her first quest but she's talking about taking a bath which seems to come after your first session in the guide.

I've had same issues since forever. But frequently visiting her always helped. At some point scene just triggered, though I am not away as to why it works as it works.

inb4: spaghetti code

 

[Nightguy1]

Why the F did you put "avatar artists" and "(porn)game devs" in the same sentence?! How it is even connected to other parts of your message, let alone to the message you are answering to?! Was your message written by AI perchance?

And what environment artists have to do with this whole topic altogether? Why do you think the experience of wholly different type of art with different demands is applicable here?



By God, how could anyone make a take that is so infuriatingly backward?!

If you don't insentify practise of artists - which requires monetary recompense for the vastest amount of time, efforts and sometimes even materials to maintain - artist won't become better. If instead of paying beginner artists comissions to insentify their practise we will use AI "because artists draw shit!!", less artitsts would be practicing. With less artists practicing, we will have less and less great artists - because great artists at some point drew shit themselves!

Why do I have to explain something so glaringly obvious?!

Uncle Iroh brought up Avatar cant you read?

Because large scale industry trends in a related field can inform movements of another do i have to explain supply and demand here as well.

This point has some merit but i suppose where i differ from you is that i look first to the benefit of the consumer and yea practicing for no pay until your good enough to sell a product is what everyone everywhere has to do lol some chumps even have to pay to practice (schl) artist should be no different.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Uncle Iroh brought up Avatar cant you read?

Because large scale industry trends in a related field can inform movements of another do i have to explain supply and demand here as well.

You won't be able to because none of it makes any fucking sense. Your argument about large scale industry already fell flat, and avatar artists have nothing to do with porn games. Regardless of whether or not your opponent mentioned them. The fact that your mention of those artists is relevant to the topic he mentioned does not make this mention relevant in situation you used it in.

This point has some merit but i suppose where i differ from you is that i look first to the benefit of the consumer and yea practicing for no pay until your good enough to sell a product is what everyone everywhere has to do lol some chumps even have to pay to practice (schl) artist should be no different.

You aren't though. If you were really into consumer rights, you would have put an actual effort to figure out the most obvious conclusion that if consumer consumes art, it is in his bloody interest to insentify the artist into making more and better art. Since what you suggest would logically lead to the very opposite effect, you are not looking at consumer's benefit - not at first look, not at all.

Again - and I won't reiterate anymore! - you say that some artist draw shit and therefore shouldn't sell they product, but your approach in using AI instead would inevitable de-insentify artists from improving their art. Meaning there would be more shit and less great artists.

Listen, pal, I won't repeat it any one more time. I am tired. For some reason I have to pander the most obvious fucking point about this whole debacle for third time in a row. I deserve better than my explanations being tossed aside or ignored.

P.S. And no "X field has this experience so Y field will have the same" isn't an argument without some very concrete elaboration. You can't just throw phrases like "large scale industry trends in a related field can inform movements of another" or "some chumps even have to pay to practice (schl) artist should be no different" and expect others to accept it as is. Without elaboration this is just a word-mix.

 

[BahBar]

So for now no one have found camilla ??, it say at the very begining of Act 2, so perhaps it trigger in novos ?

 

[Nightguy1]

... Ok,

I brought it up for the exact reason I stated in the exact same sentence. The art in that show can be considered "bad" art by some due to it's lack of detail. I'll say the exact same thing again; it's simple, cartoonish, and yet holds so much charm and makes it stand out on it's own. AI would not make an art style like that on it's own. It needed artists to conjure it up themselves. Yes avatar is a massive property. It doesn't detract from my point that art that is "bad" in certain aspects, be it colour theory, detail, or popularity. Doesn't mean it can't be amazing in it's own right.

Point 2, Unhinged, of course people have the right to sell their own work. It's insane to think otherwise. Just because you don't like their product, doesn't mean you can walk in and say "get lost mate, you can't sell that". Of course they fucking can. YOU can choose not buy it. End of.

Same with the third point really, you've actively chosen to ignore the points I made in order to feed your own beliefs. Fine, if that's what you want to do, go for it. But don't come back with the my exact points as a positive with no flaws when I've literally pointed out the flaws that come with those points.

Anyway, I'll leave it on this note, AI art can make "good art", but it's at the cost of individualism, a lack of variety of styles, non-existent continuity between art pieces, and a mess of errors within the art that people who are using the AI generator can't fix because, shocker, they aren't artists. If you want shovel-ware, a flood of low quality games, and a lack of variety in art, keep fighting the fight for AI and shit on upcoming artists. By definition AI art NEEDS artists to make the art it generates. Any argument to throw artists aside in favour of it is so ignorant of that basic definition.

*sigh* Your creating arguments i did not make Iroh i never said lacking in detail = bad you created this argument and are now arguing against it it so i agree with everything you say here AI cannot consume artist great artist plus AI equal consumer win so we agree completely here.

Never said they didnt have the right to sell just that amateurs did sell so yea another argument you made on your own...

Great artists will always have work was one of my main points the hgame industry is evolving and the demands of the consumers are putting strain on developers and artists they cannot keep up with the quality level and speed being asked of them get used to AI its not going anywhere. The real discussion should be how artists will integrate AI into there workflow to increase productivity thats where the magic is.