Ren'Py Rovering to Sussex [Ch. 3 v0.3.0] [Zargon_games & RFB]

[JoeTheMC84]

I wish people would stop acting like they talk for a majority of others when expressing their opinions on fetishes and what works together. The world is a wildly varied place, and all sorts of fantasies and combinations could be appealing to many more people than you might imagine.

Someone said "we play games to experience a fantasy and wish fulfilment" - this is truth...

Exactly, the issue is that some people get belligerent when others simply ask for clarity on what fantasy and wish fulfillment is in a game as if just asking about it is an attack on those who enjoy something different. They act like someone saying, "*If* this is how it is here this may not be for me," is somehow an attack or being insulting or demanding. Other people get butt hurt on behalf of developers when someone says, "Oh, this sucked, I didn't want to see that and got surprised by it. Why did you do that?" If I load up a fantasy RPG and get a modern FPS game after the first few minutes out of nowhere then I'd be upset.

You also bring up an issue in your own statement. People are varied, so it is not unreasonable to see a game make incest fully avoidable, perhaps rightly so, but then force sharing/swinging/voyeurism when it isn't any more difficult/unrealistic to do it for both fetishes. Why is one fetish, a less polarizing one, made fully avoidable but the other not? It is a fair question. And asking it early in development can only help the game. Either way, changing it or not, will only make the game stronger and make it resonate with those who come to it better and it helps keep others way who don't want it because they will not be surprised by anything.

The developers are free to make the game however they want. Most people just want clarity, and to know what they are getting into. Some people wouldn't want random unavoidable forced sharing/swinging/voyeurism, you probably wouldn't want random rape/necrophilia/bestiality/loli or whatever fetishes you dislike dropped into a game you might otherwise enjoy. If you were in a game and it suddenly dropped scat on you, had the main love interests take a massive dump in the MC's mouth, would that turn you on or would you ask why the developer added that suddenly without warning out of nowhere? There is nothing wrong with asking for clarity about stuff you might not like in a game and how much there is or how it is handled before you go in and also trying to give advice about other ways it could have been handled that would take nothing away from the game and only help make it more accessible.

Everything I have said has been, I think, fairly reasonable. I have asked for clarity on the incest in the game and how it will be implemented. I have stated that I don't mind a little sharing/swinging/voyeurism if I know about it going in. I think it would be better game and story design to just have it fully avoidable. As they have made some other fetishes and I find the reasons given for not making it fully avoidable lacking since the only ones given are that it doesn't seem realistic to the setting, but realism has already been sacrificed in other areas for porn-logic. I have not insulted anyone, but just voicing my opinion gets me called insecure and worse often time. And that's the problem. One "side" for lack of a better term, might on occasion attack a fetish or *decision* from a developer. The other attacks people and insults them as weak, insecure, and harassing.

You, yourself, posted in other threads criticizing developers choosing to make a favorite girl of yours not a main girl, you criticized the implementation of a navigation system in another game. There is no difference in voicing an opinion here about the implementation of sharing/swinging/voyeurism and how it disappoints some people.

 

[J.R.]

Stumbled into this one since I liked Young Again so far, started it and
Well, not my game. There are also definitely quite some tags missing here to at least warn players, too. Wish the developers all the best but will unfollow their games now.

The same thing happened to me, I also followed from Young Again to this game. But I don't would go that extreme and also immediately stopping that game because of this one. Well, we will see if this dev cooperation affects Young Again in the next updates also, would be a pitty for me.

 

[johnqaz]

Truer words were never spoken

On a side note:
That Catherine is a very giving girl, can I be next, please

Maybe, but in the meantime she's not impressed




I'm a sucker for fanart threads and this being new obviously does not have one. Still unsure about the shoes, body morph, breast morphs, brows, eyelids, gens, pubes!

Used in the picture:
- Skin & Body : Biljana HD for Genesis 8 Female (definitely her skin sans the eyebrows)
- Skin tweaks: Brow Remover for Daz Studio
- Body tweaks: Genesis 8 Female Body Morphs (body tone 100%)
- Fibermesh brows : Ginevra HD For Genesis 8 Female
- Hair : Sue Character and Hair for Genesis 8 Female
- Top : OOT MEGA Wardrobe 2
- Necklace & Shorts : dForce Sunny Days Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s)

 

[quorkboy]

Exactly, the issue is that some people get belligerent when others simply ask for clarity on what fantasy and wish fulfillment is in a game as if just asking about it is an attack on those who enjoy something different. They act like someone saying, "*If* this is how it is here this may not be for me," is somehow an attack or being insulting or demanding.

You may have misinterpreted my post. It was directed at saying things like "incest and sharing don't go together and no one likes that." I've seen the same with harem (not in this thread because there is no harem). Despite there being no reason at all those things don't mix.

Very few people get upset when someone politely says "this isn't my thing" or "I would prefer this kind of content is optional, but if it isn't, then this game isn't for me, I wish you good luck." It's when people are rude and aggressive, as some of the anti-sharing crowd have been here (and are everywhere they go) that others might step in and say "that's not okay behaviour, stop acting so entitled. If the game isn't for you, you can be polite about it and move on to the many games that are."

I live by the radical notion that people should accept that not all content is created for them, and not all content need be created for them. It is not reasonable to insist all developers cater to their preferences. I don't do it. They shouldn't either.

Asking politely for clarity about the content is not a problem. And clarity has been provided. Repeatedly.

There is no "random" forced anything here. The voyeurism tag is there. The sharing is optional. No one should be surprised by the content.

The questions you bring up have been asked and answered.

I have not insulted anyone, but just voicing my opinion gets me called insecure and worse often time. And that's the problem. One "side" for lack of a better term, might on occasion attack a fetish or *decision* from a developer. The other attacks people and insults them as weak, insecure, and harassing.

I could name the majority of those who have been attacking and insulting, but I won't. They're not on the side of sharing/voyeurism/etc. They're on the anti side. Their posts are easily found. They are harassing the developer, and anyone who disagrees with them. It's not "on occasion". It's a regular thing.

I don't think your comments and questions as presented here are unreasonable.

You, yourself, posted in other threads criticizing developers choosing to make a favorite girl of yours not a main girl, you criticized the implementation of a navigation system in another game. There is no difference in voicing an opinion here about the implementation of sharing/swinging/voyeurism and how it disappoints some people.

I said I was sad she was not a main girl because she was my favourite and my choice for who I'd end up with if it were up to me. I did not ask for her to be a main girl to make me happy. I did not even ask for it to be optional she be a main girl. I said that I enjoyed the story and would continue because it was good, and expressed the hope (not insisted) that even though she wasn't a main girl, we'd be seeing more of her.

I can think of a couple of games where I criticised the navigation system. In both cases I had a discussion with the developer and never once told them it had to change or their game would suck. In both cases I got reasonable responses. I've criticised other VNs. And films. And tv series. And books. I never argued, here or anywhere, against criticism. I argued against claiming to speak for a majority when they don't, being rude and aggressive in giving criticism, demanding something be changed to satisfy players who don't like what's being made, and demanding tags be added that aren't accurate then getting rude and aggressive when told they're not accurate.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

I think many people here do watch porn, including those who cry NTR at every possible opportunity, even if there is no NTR.
Since my argument was not directed at you, much less only at you, your counter argument isn't valid...

Anyway. I do get the idea that the devs wanted to make a somewhat realistic story. A realistic story is going to have other guys (not the MC) fucking potential LI's (assuming that IRL every girl is a potential LI) thus there is NTR everywhere IRL. That is my argument.

Of course the reality is that IRL only a few women out of the billions on this planet are potential LI's. The vast majority of the others you won't ever meet, and of those you do meet, a lot are either not interested in you or you are not interested in them for whatever reason, or they are already in a relationship. It would be really sad if a person would feel jealous every time he sees some random couple walking hand-in-hand or kissing in public for example.

That there is porn logic on other parts of the story detracts from the realism but that is only sideways relevant to this discussion.

As for non-NPC incest: I recommend checking out Fetish Locator. There is a brother-sister couple, the brother is the MC's best friend, who fucks his sister but is also into watching his sister fuck other men, including the MC. I would not have thought this was my thing (it still isn't), but the scenes are really hot. Since the sister is only a fuck buddy / fling for the MC and not a LI, this isn't NTR either. As an aside, the MC's own sister IS a potential LI in that game.

I've been going back and forth about trying out Fetish Locator.

I do still think that setting aside realism at one moment to advance the story or help make the game more user friendly/accessible but then using realism as the only reason not to do something as simple as make a more controversial type of content a little more avoidable just doesn't sit right with me. But I guess my opinion is of little matter, as after this post I'll be dipping out.

As for real life, we all know that most women aren't our love interests, so it (and by extension porn) is not NTR at all. But in these games, we don't know who is and is not a love interest. The developer knows if a girl could be a possible LI, but the players don't, so players often assume that all females are until they are told otherwise, because player interest often proceeds MC interests since the player can often pick if the MC pursues a girl or not. Thus, a girl is often a LI of the player before (sometimes even long before) she is a LI to the MC. There was a game where a brother and sister ended up in a dorm together, the sister fucks around for a large part of the game, even having sex in front of the brother (MC). The developers tried to keep the game from getting the NTR tag because the sister "wasn't a love interest yet," but from the start of the game the MC lusted after her in his thoughts and the developers made it clear she was an LI, and before the end of the game she becomes a love interest, the main love interest in fact.

It seems like the op has been updated to say that the Incest will not include the MC at any point. So, this is me out of the thread. The best-looking girl is only part of the voyeurism/sharing/swinging, the incest is only there for the voyeurism/sharing/swinging fans, and the lack of harem just nails it. It seems that the talk about those not being a main focus and being optional outside of a few scenes was perhaps a bit less than accurate since a major draw fetish is tied to it and the first possible real lewd scene revolves around it. Makes me doubt if any of the planned pregnancy content will involve the MC either or if it's just in the planned tags to get draws but will be used to enable voyeurism/sharing/swinging requirements. I hope not, but I won't be around to see how it all plays out.

I still wish Reflexbound and Zargon the best and hope this game does well. If it really is just a passion project, then perhaps success is secondary. But it's sad that the way some issues here were handled might come back to harm other games being made now or in the future.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

...

Do you not realize I was the guy you quoted in the first place? Hence why I responded. And I never said either of the things you are quoting me as saying with this: "... those saying things like, incest and sharing don't go together, and no one likes that," the way you presented my statements is not accurate and so I have some doubts about how you might perceive others. No offence but you seem biased against those who disagree with your preferred fetishes based on the fact that you somewhat misrepresented me and didn't even notice you had done it. I used generalities from the start and made it clear it was my opinion that incest and voyeurism/sharing/swinging tend not to mix. I got to this opinion based on long observations of many game threads while I was lurking on this site and others for years before finally joining. I responded to you because you were talking about what I had said and since I was the only one who said what you quoted it seemed as if everything you said was directed toward me and others on this thread, none of whom has attacked, or harassed but simply made opinion statements.

Also, I could list several games where even someone (sometimes even one person) *asking* about something like NTR being avoidable has resulted in pages of people calling them insecure, a harassment brigade or worse. Saying, "I don't like this, I wish you'd change it" and dipping is not harassment and the fact that you seem to think it is again, makes me doubt your objectivity. That is if I wasn't dipping out of the thread after addressing the post I was tagged by. And I could also list several games where developers actively obfuscate and even at times outright lie to keep games from getting controversial tags. This game does have sharing, the MC and another guy can share a girl. It doesn't matter that it is one scene, it is there and there will be more going forward so the swinging tag needs to be added as it encompasses sharing love interests.

If anyone wants to have further discussions with me then PM me because like I said, I'm dipping out now that I have responded to the last two posts that tagged me.

 

[J.R.]

For me the main problem here is not the game itself and it's tags/content. Maybe a little bit the, at least for me, missing ntr because of the one scene you can only skip, but it still happens. But that's probably a personal sight.

For me the big issue with this game are the ones comming from Young Again like me. They actually are surprised now about this game here be different. Completely different. This game now even have content probably quite some of these players don't like and wont normally even download.

Again, it's correctly tagged here. But I think there were also some like me who thought "nice, a new game from Zargon + new dev" and played it without even further looking into this thread. And now they are disappointed/annoyed.

Well, that will probably get better later when most Young Again players have had their experiences with this game and liked it or not. After that it will probably calm down again since the new ones are mostly the right target group then anyway. But until that there will probably be one or two more complain posts here - I admit, I did the same...

 

[quorkboy]

Do you not realize I was the guy you quoted in the first place? Hence why I responded. And I never said either of the things you are quoting me as saying with this: "... those saying things like, incest and sharing don't go together, and no one likes that," the way you presented my statements is not accurate and so I have some doubts about how you might perceive others.

I did not directly quote you nor did I claim you used those exact words. Yes, I took a few words from one of your posts to further illustrate my point that while we all are here for fantasies, those fantasies are varied. But the main focus of my post was not a response to the few quoted words and that is why I deliberately did not tag you. The intention was to show that we're all different and this VN will have fans of what it is and does not need to change to satisfy everyone (as if that were possible.) If that was unclear, I apologise.

No offence but you seem biased against those who disagree with your preferred fetishes

This is a severe misunderstanding of everything I've said. I've explained my point of view on why I disagree with the aggressive and rude anti-sharing posters, as well as anyone who thinks that people can't be fans of two (or more) fetishes that they don't think mix well, and it's very clear that it's not because I believe they should share my fetishes.

none of whom has attacked, or harassed but simply made opinion statements.

The dev was called stupid. There was another example of someone throwing their toys and being extremely unpleasant but I can't find it now, fairly certain it was on the same page. Perhaps it was deleted. Seems the one where he was called stupid is also gone, though his response still exists. I recall being insulted (called a cuck) for my stance on sharing, which also seems to be gone now. Possible a mod has been in here cleaning up.

There is no sharing tag (there really should be) so it's not possible to add. I suggested the swinging tag instead because it's the closest. There is no NTR so that tag is not appropriate.

 

[Zargon_games]

Just a heads up but Mediafire link for non-update PC version appeared to have been taken down, apparently for violating terms of service. *shrugs*

Thanks for the heads up! I think Mediafire has an automatic filter and possibly the "sex" from Sussex will make them pull the file down, it has happened to me before with other suggestive file names

 

[Zargon_games]

Maybe, but in the meantime she's not impressed

View attachment 1910302

I'm a sucker for fanart threads and this being new obviously does not have one. Still unsure about the shoes, body morph, breast morphs, brows, eyelids, gens, pubes!

Used in the picture:
- Skin & Body : Biljana HD for Genesis 8 Female (definitely her skin sans the eyebrows)
- Skin tweaks: Brow Remover for Daz Studio
- Body tweaks: Genesis 8 Female Body Morphs (body tone 100%)
- Fibermesh brows : Ginevra HD For Genesis 8 Female
- Hair : Sue Character and Hair for Genesis 8 Female
- Top : OOT MEGA Wardrobe 2
- Necklace & Shorts : dForce Sunny Days Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s)

Nice work! As you say, she has modified breasts, nipples, gens and pubes. Although they are not the same, the eyebrows you used are quite similar and I don't remember now what morphs we used for her physical tone, but I get the impression that the original is a little more fit.

 

[Sancho1969]

I've noticed that while some folks are bitching and moaning that no one has yet discovered the MC naming Easter egg?

Spoiler: Hint

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[Yngling]

I've been going back and forth about trying out Fetish Locator.

Basically you'll try out every fetish under the sun, including those you (player) may not like.
It's not for the faint of heart.
But there are scenes containing fetishes that I am normally not into, which I found to be very hot.
It kind of pushes your boundaries in that way.
The back story is pretty solid as well as interesting and many of the girls are pretty hot.

I do still think that setting aside realism at one moment to advance the story or help make the game more user friendly/accessible but then using realism as the only reason not to do something as simple as make a more controversial type of content a little more avoidable just doesn't sit right with me.

I doubt that in this case the content was included to make the game controversial.

As for real life, we all know that most women aren't our love interests, so it (and by extension porn) is not NTR at all. But in these games, we don't know who is and is not a love interest. The developer knows if a girl could be a possible LI, but the players don't, so players often assume that all females are until they are told otherwise, because player interest often proceeds MC interests since the player can often pick if the MC pursues a girl or not. Thus, a girl is often a LI of the player before (sometimes even long before) she is a LI to the MC.

I disagree. IRL, every person you meet could be a LI as well. But contrary to games, IRL there are many good reasons to have a relationship with only one girl at the time. And I suppose you are much quicker rejecting people as potential LI's IRL than in a game, where there are no consequences for picking the wrong LI.

There was a game where a brother and sister ended up in a dorm together, the sister fucks around for a large part of the game, even having sex in front of the brother (MC). The developers tried to keep the game from getting the NTR tag because the sister "wasn't a love interest yet," but from the start of the game the MC lusted after her in his thoughts and the developers made it clear she was an LI, and before the end of the game she becomes a love interest, the main love interest in fact.

That was "My sister my roommate":
https://f95zone.to/threads/my-sister-my-roommate-v1-69-sumodeine.5593/

I see what you mean, it's a similar situation.

Still I would suggest that it's far more likely to have a sister who sleeps with a bunch of other guys, than to have a sister who sleeps with you (her brother).

 

[Sancho1969]

Still I would suggest that it's far more likely to have a sister who sleeps with a bunch of other guys, than to have a sister who sleeps with you (her brother).

Clearly, sir, you don't know many hillbillies.

 

[johnqaz]

Nice work! As you say, she has modified breasts, nipples, gens and pubes. Although they are not the same, the eyebrows you used are quite similar and I don't remember now what morphs we used for her physical tone, but I get the impression that the original is a little more fit.

Looks like maybe she has Musculature HD Morphs for Genesis 8 Female at roughly 20% instead. More abs tone this way than the body tone at 100%.

The eyebrows were the most "surprising" to me in that I couldn't find anything off with the skin BUT the eyebrows (there's no eyebrow-less face with Biljana).. So I had to use the brow remover script - which I thought was odd giving the ton of assets out there without eyebrows in the first place. This time around I'm trying Super Natural Brows (preset no.4 iirc). It seems closer to in-game.

Breasts / nips still not quite right. Played with Big XXL Silicone Breasts from DragiHadzitosic's Realistic Nipples. Added Golden Palace, and Growler.

Since her skin seems a bit glossy I decided to play with shaders and made her hair and clothing wet The hair turned out good considering it's not meant to be.

 

[Zargon_games]

Looks like maybe she has Musculature HD Morphs for Genesis 8 Female at roughly 20% instead. More abs tone this way than the body tone at 100%.

The eyebrows were the most "surprising" to me in that I couldn't find anything off with the skin BUT the eyebrows (there's no eyebrow-less face with Biljana).. So I had to use the brow remover script - which I thought was odd giving the ton of assets out there without eyebrows in the first place. This time around I'm trying Super Natural Brows (preset no.4 iirc). It seems closer to in-game.

Breasts / nips still not quite right. Played with Big XXL Silicone Breasts from DragiHadzitosic's Realistic Nipples. Added Golden Palace, and Growler.

Since her skin seems a bit glossy I decided to play with shaders and made her hair and clothing wet The hair turned out good considering it's not meant to be.

View attachment 1911389

She looks great! I'd love to know what values you used on the hair to make it look wet, maybe we'll need it for the future, haha.

 

[Sancho1969]

johnqaz --- ^ --- Out of courtesy can you pls use spoiler tag containers to minimize post size, it's simply enormous on 4K multi-monitor, need a welding helmet due to the massive brightness . Thnx and regards.

 

[johnqaz]

johnqaz --- ^ --- Out of courtesy can you pls use spoiler tag containers to minimize post size, it's simply enormous on 4K multi-monitor, need a welding helmet due to the massive brightness . Thnx and regards.

Sorry Inserted a thumbnail instead. Hope this is fine?

 

[Sancho1969]

Sorry Inserted a thumbnail instead. Hope this is fine?

Bud, I was only asking if you didn't mind... my retinas are now burnt . BTW, well done, I'm no graphic artist by any stretch of anyone's imagination so kudos indeed. Also, if you thumbnail you can always center the thumb (you can even resize it if you wish by dragging it) so it's more prominent in the post... just an FYI.

 

[johnqaz]

She looks great! I'd love to know what values you used on the hair to make it look wet, maybe we'll need it for the future, haha.

I started playing with glossiness whatnot, then started googling because it would never look right, and yeah.. you need clumping to make the hair look wet.. turns out I already had the right assets for that! Linday's Short Wet Hair for Genesis 8 Male(s) and Female(s) includes generic materials that can be applied to other hairs.

 

[johnqaz]

Bud, I was only asking if you didn't mind... my retinas are now burnt . BTW, well done, I'm no graphic artist by any stretch of anyone's imagination so kudos indeed. Also, if you thumbnail you can always center the thumb (you can even resize it if you wish by dragging it) so it's more prominent in the post... just an FYI.

Turns out scaling the thumbnail up looks horrible haha.