There is a TLDR at towards the bottom...
A question for clarity and that you may want to add information about: Is the incest in this only non-MC related? If so, you should add that under the spoiler genre tab on the first page. Example: Incest (non-MC). As many incest fans are only interested in it if the MC is involved. It seems that, based on one of the first questions the game asks when it loads up, the planned incest is only if you indulge in the voyeurism/sharing/swinging content which seems like an odd choice. Unless there will be MC involved incest later too it should really be noted that there is no MC incest in this planned. The prompt at the start of the game doesn't seem to indicate that there is MC incest coming so when I saw that I jumped in here to ask because incest is a genre that can get me past a few early voyeurism/sharing/swinging scenes being unavoidable (as long as later updates make those avoidable). This would actually upset me more than a little sharing or swinging I know about going into the game and can skip or avoid.
People into incest and people into voyeurism are usually two very different animals when it comes to what they like about it and mixing that seems so odd to me. Incest fans want the MC to be involved in the incest. I'd wager there are almost zero incest fans who when they see that the only incest is between NPCs will want to play the game at all and I'd wager just as much that many of the voyeurism fans will not care that it is incest they are watching and may even turn it off since that is an option as I often hear complaints from voyeurism/sharing/swinging fans that there is too much incest and they want patches to even make some incest games non-incest. You have said that you aren't targeting a specific audience and are making a game you would enjoy, so perhaps you enjoy the idea of incest voyeurism? If that is the case, fair enough, but most others will not like that, and it would be good to make that as clear as you are with other fetishes and how you are implementing them. Again, I'm not asking this to try and change it, just in the hopes that there can be some clarity to anyone looking at playing this game for the future incest content.
In an earlier post I said this: (modified a bit)
I’m not sure it’ll be worth the risk that it could turn out that my favorite girl is one I only get to hook up with if her boyfriend/girlfriend/fuckbuddy is willing to share her. The MC being a third wheel getting sloppy seconds and with no long-term prospects with her. Or only if I have been willing to watch her (skipped or not) being fucked by some other person the whole time the games been going on until she finally decides the MC has earned enough points or something to be “worthy of her” when she seemingly demanded nothing from the other person she was with. Especially when often in AVNs the other person is an asshole, so we feel less bad about saving or “stealing” her. I’ve had it happen before. The game presented a great character that looked the best for my tastes and was the one I was most excited about and then torpedoed the girl by forcing a sharing scene, having her get seen getting railed by some other guy, or having her talk about how great getting gangbanged is or that she is the club's cumdump…
In a non-harem game this can be even more of an issue since we will need to pick one girl at the end and if my favorite is into a bunch of stuff I'm not then well, f-me I guess. And it seems to be the case here that my worry has come to pass. It seems like it is another example of the following excuse, “She’s too hot to be a virgin.” After all, she isn't just not a virgin (again, that's fine if it isn't made a big deal) but the hottest girl must be a slut too, because "realism." The dev hasn't used this excuse, but I hear it all the time from developers and fans of slutty characters. And when I hear that it makes me wonder if these people have ever even interacted with real human females in substantive ways. Some of the hottest girls I’ve known were virgins well into their twenties (hell I know one very attractive girl who is still a virgin in her thirties for religious reason because she’s waiting for marriage). And some of the ugliest (subjectively) girls I’ve seen were total sluts. And I’ve seen that in revers too. Ugly virgins and hot sluts. A girl's looks have nothing inherently to do with her sexuality or sexual experience.
The athletic blond, Catherine I believe as I stopped the game to ask about the incest question above but looked at the images in the game folder to see which girl we can see involved with other guys, is by far to me the best-looking girl from the banner and yet she is the first one we have to see (or skip seeing but still know is happening) involved sexual with someone else. It also seems like to get her to give the MC a bj you have to join in. That interrupting and stopping her from blowing the other guy prevents her from giving one to the MC. Seems like it means she is upset and that seems like it might mean that the best option for her moving forward is the one where you are okay with her slutting around and not stopping her. It's also worth noting I'm not sure if you can even really stop her. Is she mid-bj when the MC interrupts or is about to start when you walk in and the other guy leaves? I am operating from a lack of information, but I just want to avoid getting into a game that might leave me with a bad time. I recently had this happen with another game that forced a voyeurism scene out of nowhere several hours into the game... but the developer thought it was okay, cause lesbians = hot right? It really pissed me off, so I'm trying to be a little extra carful right now and know what to expect moving in.
I downloaded the game because, as I've said before, if another aspect of the game trumps some mild voyeurism, sharing, or swinging that happens early on and can be ended later then I'll play a game. For me, that was the look of the girls (the athletic blond, Catherine primarily) in the banner and preview images, the planned incest, the romance, the no drama promise, and the promise to make later voyeurism/sharing/swinging avoidable and not just skippable. For example, Midlife Crisis is one of my favorite games on the site and it has sharing/swinging, but it is fully avoidable. The incest and a few other genres that game has trump those few moments of avoidable sharing/swinging. Desert Stalker is another game I really enjoy with again, fully avoidable voyeurism/sharing/swinging. So, if the incest is only going to possible on the voyeurism/sharing/swinging paths then I might just go ahead and opt out. But if there is going to be incest for the MC moving forward and the target of it (a sister, cousin, or whatever) isn't a total slut (meaning she bangs others until we finally earn the right to be with her) then I still think this game could be for me as I'd give up my preferred looks girl for a sister or cousin girl.
I think you don't know what wholesome means (or maybe it's just me who interprets it differently) what it means here is that the story has no low blows, no big dramas or deaths, this game is made to relax and have a good time, for drama we already have real life.
Oddly enough you are making a case in favor of the people upset about the voyeurism/sharing/swinging. Many people see it as drama to see a girl they like involved sexually with others without them being able to do anything about it. It is a low blow to many, to have a girl (especially the best-looking girl in my opinion) only be available if you are cool with her slutting around and it being done behind the MC's back at best or rubbed in his face at worst. It takes away from their good time if they see, Catherine for example, about to give a guy a bj, and then stop her because they are interested in her. Only for then it to seem like they made the wrong choice at that point because they didn't want the girl they like being a slut with them getting sloppy seconds. They don't want some other guys cum in a girl's mouth while she blows them after him.
As you say, "...for drama we already have real life." For knowing that the best-looking girls are already taken, or we can never be with them, we have real life. You are already applying ample porn-logic in the game anyway. Why not just let that also apply to making these scenes fully avoidable? Why not also let it apply to there being an optional harem? It's not even inherently unrealistic in our world though it is rarer now than it was for the vast majority of human history in the west (until about a hundred fifty years ago or so). Zargon, you in this one post just make the best case against the way it has been handled in this game. Being required to see a girl be with others in order to have the best path with her is a low blow, it is big drama, and it cuts into many people's ability to relax and have a good time.
About folks finding this one from Zargon's other game:
Many of your fans from Young Again (how I found this game by the way was from being a fan of Young Again) may download this just because your name is on it before they even look at the spoilers or thread and they will be surprised by the voyeurism/sharing/swinging that this game has. Some in the thread have already said as much. You never forced anything like this on the players in the other game. Your other game has the MC come back to life because of a Goddess and no one complained about a lack of realism or lamented that the girls weren't all "realistically" whorish or in other relationships at the game start. They just enjoyed the game as a drama free, good time where we could assume the girls were not fucking around behind the MC's back. Here there may be a disconnect between you and Reflexbound perhaps, and there is definitely a disconnect between you two and the community that you built with Young Again. Especially since your name is the one first, in full, and most recognizable next to the title.
TLDR: 1. If there is no MC incest planned that should be added under the genre spoiler tab as, perhaps, Incest (Non-MC) or Incest (NPCs Only). 2. Honestly, I just don't get the reason for not making voyeurism/sharing/swinging fully avoidable instead of skippable. The closest thing to an argument has been "realism," but you are applying unrealistic porn-logic elsewhere to things that are less controversial. The fact that you have incest planned at all stretches credulity to many, as just one such example. Hence why you added the option in the start to turn it off for two couples I imagine. If you see the logic and good sense to have incest be *fully* optional (a fetish that is far less polarizing, especially in small doses) then why wasn't the same done for the voyeurism/sharing/swinging? It seems odd to treat the one as avoidable and the other as skippable. And if the people who are used in the possible incest scenes talk about struggling with the taboo of their relationship since they were "childhood friends" or something then you have truly cast the die that realism means nothing. And if they don't talk about the taboo when it is turned off, then again, you showed a willingness to write and render two different scenes in both form and function for one fetish but then didn't for another far more polarizing one... which leads to the question of why?
I've rambled again, but that's all of have for today. Have a nice evening everyone... or morning, or whatever, time zone dependent, I guess.
Edit: Seeing more specifics about the Cat scene that were given below that tried to say that it was “wholesome” and “almost sweet” just adds to my sense that it is largely there using porn-logic and not realistic in any way. But it is what it is I guess.
