Sad Reality

[Meaning Less]

A sad reality about western game development is that currently we have 86 pages of completed games and 78 pages of games either abandoned or onhold.

Which means that statistically only 55% of the games currently being developed are going to be completed.

Rip many of your favorite games under development.

 

[Winterfire]

Most of the abandoned games were from devs looking to make a quick buck, but after the first update they dipped out because they didn't get as much money as they imagined or novices with unrealistic expectations and no clear design.
They were no one's favourites, they never had a chance to begin with.

I'd say the real percentage of abandoned games that people would be sad about is between 10-20%.

 

[Meaning Less]

Most of the abandoned games were from devs looking to make a quick buck, but after the first update they dipped out because they didn't get as much money as they imagined or novices with unrealistic expectations and no clear design.

Yes but a bunch of completed games are also very short nukiges pumped by the same dev or were already released as completed without patreon which might move the balance to the other end a bit again.

 

[kilobananov]

A sad reality about western game development is that currently we have 86 pages of completed games and 78 pages of games either abandoned or onhold.

Which means that statistically only 55% of the games currently being developed are going to be completed.

Rip many of your favorite games under development.

55% surviving rate is actually a good number! Take startups - they say that at best 1 out of 10 becomes an actual working business. Most probably even less that that.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I'd say the real percentage of abandoned games that people would be sad about is between 10-20%.

Probably even less.
Personally I count three major games, Lexi (for the reason we know ), Love and Submission (the dev was hit hard in real life and is still drowning). And I don't remember the name of last one, but it was firstly abandoned when Patreon ban started, and when the dev tried to restart it after more than one year, he clearly never found the right inspiration for a none incestuous version of his story. Add a dozen of a other games, like DarthSeduction ones (because of health issues), that haven't had the time to make it fan big, but that I punctually remember and then regret.
There's more games that I followed and that have been abandoned, but while they were somehow entertaining, I didn't cared this much about them, and don't even know that they have been abandoned. I followed them each time their name popped up in the "last update", but they weren't interesting enough for me to notice that I haven't seen their name in a long time.

And I think that, globally speaking, it's the same (scheme, not games) for everyone.

 

[Winterfire]

Probably even less.
Personally I count three major games, Lexi (for the reason we know ), Love and Submission (the dev was hit hard in real life and is still drowning). And I don't remember the name of last one, but it was firstly abandoned when Patreon ban started, and when the dev tried to restart it after more than one year, he clearly never found the right inspiration for a none incestuous version of his story. Add a dozen of a other games, like DarthSeduction ones (because of health issues), that haven't had the time to make it fan big, but that I punctually remember and then regret.
There's more games that I followed and that have been abandoned, but while they were somehow entertaining, I didn't cared this much about them, and don't even know that they have been abandoned. I followed them each time their name popped up in the "last update", but they weren't interesting enough for me to notice that I haven't seen their name in a long time.

And I think that, globally speaking, it's the same (scheme, not games) for everyone.

I know a few more, such as Fantasy Valley, or Palmer's, but since I do not really play games I am sure there are a bunch more so I wanted to be generous with the percentage

Yes but a bunch of completed games are also very short nukiges pumped by the same dev or were already released as completed without patreon which might move the balance to the other end a bit again.

Nothing wrong with short or completed games, in fact, they are often much more appreciated.
Uploaders add any kind of allowed games, I have seen some abandoned games getting added as well.

 

[Meaning Less]

Nothing wrong with short or completed games, in fact, they are often much more appreciated.

I wasn't complaining, it was just adding information to the statistical sampling.

Sure there are exceptions and devs that have already completed previous games are more likely to finish their ongoing projects, but to think that if you pick a random game you can basically just toss a coin to see if it will be completed, it's sad to me.

55% surviving rate is actually a good number! Take startups - they say that at best 1 out of 10 becomes an actual working business. Most probably even less that that.

That's probably part of the problem, many devs treat it as companies promising a lot but if they don't get enough investors they will just drop it.
Could easily be fixed if devs were just more realistical and started making shorter games for their first projects but those don't milk patreons unfortunetely, so they tend to go with huge swings and promises even if they have no idea of how to realistically deliver them.
Patreon is a geared towards false promises and slow progress by just flashing people with small updates.
When in reality games develop at very different paces, I'm pretty sure many devs also work in bursts and create huge chunks of their games in some weeks, but then the business model tells them to just release that content slowly and steady, so people don't complain about less productive weeks.

 

[Wildman Dev]

All I can say is: I'm in it for the long haul. COME FLY WITH ME!

 

[kilobananov]

That's probably part of the problem, many devs treat it as companies promising a lot but if they don't get enough investor they will just drop it.
Could easily be fixed if devs were just more realistical and started making shorter games for their first projects but those don't milk patreons unfortunetely, so they tend to go with huge swings and promises even if they have no idea of how to realistically deliver them.

I guess, it's quite easy and tempting to agree with this while being a non-paying consumer on a pirate site (no pun intended towards you, I am all the same).
But I also am looking at it from a different perspective.
I am seriously thinking of making my VN - renpy, daz, business as usual. For this I would need a powerful PC to render what I want and how I want at decent speeds. If I want to be a good boy, I should better buy the 3D assets instead of pirating them (especially if I choose to collect donations in any form). Last but not least, I will invest a lot of my time into this - time not spent with friends, family or doing something more useful or immediately pleasing.
Once you add it all up - it kinda makes sense why people want to make money from it. Break even, at least. Even if it's a small project, it's a lot like a job after all.

As for the overpromises - well, it happens all the time and everywhere. Lots of talentless movies, series, books, products etc. It takes an effort to find some gems in a pile of glass debris.

 

[Meaning Less]

I am seriously thinking of making my VN - renpy, daz, business as usual. For this I would need a powerful PC to render what I want and how I want at decent speeds.

Don't want to poke into false promises, but you could also just make compromises, use TK17 or HS for cheaper/realtime renders, that way no need to gather money for models/pc, plus no time is spent slowly rendering each frame on DAZ.
Hell, you could even start with a text-based game and collect free assets distributed online like many devs do if you want to move even faster. There is a lot you can do to reach a completed product without relying on false promises, just saying.

 

[kilobananov]

but you could also just make compromises

I know, I studied the alternatives. I don't like the look of HS and TK. I don't like playing the games with these graphics. Hence my preference. And I haven't made any promises so far Thanks for the comment tho

Anyway, there's still a bunch of enthusiasts who deliver. And apparently more are coming. I recently caught myself thinking that there are quite a lot of new games appearing even on this website. More than, say, 1 year ago even. So they do keep coming. And there will be good completed games as well.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

I think you're vastly overestimating how many games will be completed. The "abandoned games" prefix is just for developers who have explicitly declared that the games are no longer being worked on, or have completely disappeared from the internet for over a year. Also a lot of these completed games are untagged japanese games or games from bigger developers.

You should also take into account the way the indie porn game market has been developing over 5 years. Frankly, the game development as a subscription service model is dysfunctional to the point of being comical.

 

[PipPoad]

That's sad indeed..

 

[Droid Productions]

That's sad indeed..

I don't think it's quite as bad as that. The indie NSFW market has evolved along very specific directions, mostly because that's what people seem to want. Without Patreon you'd never see a bunch of these big adult NSFW games completed or even started; just an endless stream of little puzzle games that were quick and easy to develop. if you dislike the subscription model (which is totally a valid decision), support the games when they come out complete on Steam or itch.io.

I wouldn't read too much into the 'abandoned' tag; there's a LOT of 'my first gamedev' that probably would have benefitted from having a Beta fishbowl to swim in first, before being released to prime-time with 5 mins worth of gameplay, and more time spent building the Patreon page than the game. Unless something terrible happens (as with Palmer), most of the big games will eventually get finished.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Don't want to poke into false promises, but you could also just make compromises, use TK17 or HS for cheaper/realtime renders, that way no need to gather money for models/pc, plus no time is spent slowly rendering each frame on DAZ.

Is that legal though? Isn’t using HS and TK for renders considered piracy? I currently live in Germany where it isn't possible to access adult games on Steam, so I cannot check if they allow these type of games or not. Patreon seems to be OK with them, but the same was true for games that used real porn images, which have recently started to face a lot of trouble.

You should also take into account the way the indie porn game market has been developing over 5 years. Frankly, the game development as a subscription service model is dysfunctional to the point of being comical.

There are alternatives. We have the mobile-like micro-transactions style of Nukaku. We have the onetime payment for early-access/full game on steam/itch. Anyone can vote with their wallet to shape the indie NSFW market in the way they like. If the patreon model remains the most successful, it’s due to a combination of it being where players find their money to be best placed, and it being the one that offers the lowest entry barrier/investment upfront for devs.

This lower entry barrier also creates a lot of “abandoned games”, that’s the other side of the coin. But one can also just check our favorite games and see if they were funded though patreon. If yes, we should consider that, without this "natural selection" outcome of the patreon model, there is a high chance that our favorite games would have never been made in the first place.

 

[baneini]

Due to it being impossible to make games I actually want to play if you follow patreon guidelines the amount of completed good games gets very low as the devs are forced to work for free essentially.

 

[Meaning Less]

Is that legal though? Isn’t using HS and TK for renders considered piracy?

Pretty sure same rules apply as DAZ:

Spoiler: Offtopic

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Pretty sure same rules apply as DAZ:
"Essentially, you can use DAZ models in 2D apps without a licence (e.g. visual novels, or as backgrounds etc), but you can't use them for 3D characters in games without a licence."
Explained under their EULA.

3D Rendered content has different rules over 3dcg which are just screenshots and don't actually use 3d assets which are the licensed object, being closer to fair use and there is no way to even verify if those models were bought or just downloaded after that point either...

Real porn videos are licensed frame by frame by companies so they are more prone to be taken down.

But I bet illusion would be even less strict about using their models on 3D games anyways since their game has a character maker which implies models aren't licensed in the first place.

That’s a different thing. When you buy an asset on the dazstore, it does comes with a license, but it's one that only allows to asset to be used to make 2d renders. If you want to use the actual meshes in 3d games, we need to buy a different license.

The question with HS is a copyright issue. The engine belongs to illusion and when you buy the game it doesn’t give you any license to produce renders and sell them. Therefore that would be illegal. I’m not informed about that at all, but a quick search around here (or here, or here) tells me that it indeed seems to be illegal to sell games containing HS renders on steam.

 

[Meaning Less]

illegal to sell games containing HS renders on steam.

Of course it is, to sell your game is an entirely difference process and everything has to be licensed accordingly, but to just distribute the game for free like most devs do is another story, patreon is there just to gather donations, not to sell the game.
Same way it would be illegal to sell programs using some open-source libs depending on their restrictions, but they are perfectly legal to be distributed freely without being considered piracy or anything illegal.

 

[kilobananov]

Of course it is, to sell your game is an entirely difference process and everything has to be licensed accordingly, but to just distribute the game for free like most devs do is another story, patreon is there just to gather donations, not to sell the game.
Same way it would be illegal to sell programs using some open-source libs depending on their restrictions, but they are perfectly legal to be distributed freely without being considered piracy or anything illegal.

Am I the only one to see a HUGE difference between these two things?
1) distribusing for free some software containing assets which in turn are legally available for free
2) distribusing for free some software containing assets most of which are legally available only through a purchase

Besides, to me Patreon is borderline commercial use (I am not a lawyer tho) because most of the creators usually condition content availability and volume upon a certail tier of subscription