Sad Reality

83wulf

Newbie
May 14, 2019
55
180
The real problem is that too many authors haven't a single idea regarding the end of their story. And like the business model they rely on do not call for a fast ending of the development, they don't really bother with this
This.
Most new devs have -no- idea what they're getting into. And many of them don't have the sense to make a structural blueprint for the project beforehand. Not even a list of characters, let alone a decision-tree.

There are quite a few games on this site where the devs keep churning out updates with no end in sight. They are simply milking their Patreons and making things up as they go. When things get a little slow, they introduce a new girl, a small novelty factor which will rejuvenate their thirst-trap for a while, and all is well for a few months.
Even when successful, these perpetually developed games are just waiting for the RL situation of their devs to change.
If anything changes - it doesn't have to be much, it doesn't have to be unexpected - the games are suddenly on the backburner, will be put on hold and eventually abandoned. The devs will be apologetic, often even genuinely, but are also often in this situation due to their inability to plan the project through.

finishing a story is way more difficult than starting it.
And this is true for most creative endeavours.

But despite all of this, I disagree with the premise of this thread. If anything, we should be thankful for how many games actually get completed. The ratio between completed vs abandoned is, if anything, higher than we could hope for.
 

Meaning Less

Engaged Member
Sep 13, 2016
3,540
7,114
I disagree with the premise of this thread. If anything, we should be thankful for how many games actually get completed. The ratio between completed vs abandoned is, if anything, higher than we could hope for.
Sure, it is impressive if we assume that this is natural:
Most new devs have -no- idea what they're getting into. And many of them don't have the sense to make a structural blueprint for the project beforehand. Not even a list of characters, let alone a decision-tree.
Which they wouldn't if patreon wasn't an "easy cashgrab" that can be done with simple promises, so they can try and scam people without even having any experience with game development or storywriting.

You see much less abandoned projects in the eastern market for instance because crowfunding is less common so devs have to work harder and actually complete their games before starting cashing out on it.
So they start with small and realistic projects, and as they get better and gather more fans they jump to bigger projects (like most indie devs should be doing in the first place).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dagoth Urgers

RibesNigrum

New Member
May 24, 2021
14
11
Such a depressing post for all the new game developers but I am sure with the History of all who have fallen, I will be more grounded about my expectation. Stay strong, Hentai Community. :cry:
 

Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
Which they wouldn't if patreon wasn't an "easy cashgrab" that can be done with simple promises, so they can try and scam people without even having any experience with game development or storywriting.
It's not a scam because hardly any dev gives any guarantees that a game will be finished. You are not paying for a finished game, you are just paying to enable and/or motivate the creator to continue creating.

It's also not an easy cashgrab given the low amount that most creators make compared to the time they need to invest.

If some people make the "mistake" of funding the "wrong" creator on patreon or where ever, that's their choice. We outsiders have no right of criticising what they want to do with their money. Even if they want to throw their money into the sea, what do I care?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaike

Dagoth Urgers

Newbie
Dec 12, 2021
60
182
You are not paying for a finished game, you are just paying to enable and/or motivate the creator to continue creating.
Wrong. You are paying for patron rewards and that is it.
We outsiders have no right of criticising what they want to do with their money. Even if they want to throw their money into the sea, what do I care?
Where did he criticize the people who were throwing their money away? It seems to me that he was criticizing Patreon and the devs who put their projects on Patreon.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,014
13,019
Wrong. You are paying for patron rewards and that is it..
That's the thing, and the reason why Patreon is so successful. It allows people to pay for whatever reason they see fit. I definitely NOT pay for Patreon rewards, but to reward devs for the work already done and encourage them to keep doing it. Others use Patreon as a subscription model where they pay just to get access to exclusive content. So devs get money from both groups, and everyone is happy (except those who would only want completed games, but they have to understand that, without Patreon, the number of completed games with a "decent" amount of content wouldn't improve at all, since even less people would be willing to start working on such an endeavour)
 
Last edited:

Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
Wrong. You are paying for patron rewards and that is it.
If that's the case, why would you pay for stuff that you can download for free here?

Most popular games are leaked nearly immediately... And if not, nearly all games are posted publicly by the dev some time later, so in the worst case you need to wait a bit longer.

So I'd argue that you'd rather pay in order to support a dev for whatever reason you see fit.

But moskyx is correct, there is no "correct" reason to support a dev on patreon, it can be whatever reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jestertlw

Dagoth Urgers

Newbie
Dec 12, 2021
60
182
If that's the case, why would you pay for stuff that you can download for free here?
If you're paying to reward devs for the work already done and encourage them to keep doing it, then why do you give 10% of your money to Patreon?

The "correct" reason to support a dev on Patreon is because Patreon is adding value. Otherwise you're just getting your money stolen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Admiral Thrawn

Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
If you're paying to reward devs for the work already done and encourage them to keep doing it, then why do you give 10% of your money to Patreon?

The "correct" reason to support a dev on Patreon is because Patreon is adding value. Otherwise you're just getting your money stolen.
Why do you give 50% of your money to a supermarket when you could have just bought your vegetables from the farmer?

Answer: because it's convenient, both for you and for the farmer.
 

Dagoth Urgers

Newbie
Dec 12, 2021
60
182
Why do you give 50% of your money to a supermarket when you could have just bought your vegetables from the farmer?

Answer: because it's convenient, both for you and for the farmer.
That is pure false equivalence. There are actual logistics involved in getting physical goods on shelves and completing transactions. You'd be an idiot to pay a 50% markup for vegetables if the only difference was going to a different website.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,014
13,019
What's that other different website available to pay devs for their work without someone else getting a cut? A website where those devs are actually present, not an imaginary one, of course
 
  • Like
Reactions: 246 and Yngling

Dagoth Urgers

Newbie
Dec 12, 2021
60
182
What's that other different website available to pay devs for their work without someone else getting a cut? A website where those devs are actually present, not an imaginary one, of course
It's called having a paypal. Most devs have a game development blog with donation information or they used to. That needs to come back.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,014
13,019
It's called having a paypal. Most devs have a game development blog with donation information or they used to. That needs to come back.
You know Paypal tends to suspend every account related to porn and lewd creations as it goes against their , don't you? While Patreon, being a big fish, have agreements with them, thus allowing people use their Paypal accounts to pay for lewd content under Patreon's umbrella (and creators to get withdrawals from Patreon on their Paypal accounts as well)

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
It's called having a paypal. Most devs have a game development blog with donation information or they used to. That needs to come back.
Ah, now I finally understand where you are coming from.

And in a way I agree, but this has been discussed before and it is not that easy.
Perhaps Bitcoin is the way to go?
 

Ambir

Adult games developer
Game Developer
Aug 7, 2020
846
1,165
It's called having a paypal. Most devs have a game development blog with donation information or they used to. That needs to come back.
Yeah, and get banned on paypal because you're selling adult material directly. They don't ban you if you sell through patreon or itch.io or steam.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Dagoth Urgers

kilobananov

Member
Nov 3, 2019
207
138
Oh well, if it takes only up to 10% of commission to have a resourse that would really allow 1) to support the creators of adult content, 2) for said creators to interact with their audience, 3) for said creators to thank their supporters in any way (exclusive stuff, early access etc), then it's propably a price worth paying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yngling and 246

Meaning Less

Engaged Member
Sep 13, 2016
3,540
7,114
Let me give you a pratical example, let's say I have a completed game in my hands already that I've been working on my spare time, If I want to make the most money out of it, should I:
A- just release the game directly and let the game promote itself?
B- split the game into several small parts, create a patreon, and start releasing weekly updates as if I am working on it?

Option B will not only generate more money, but it will also generate a lot more publicity with weekly updates and such.
So it is easy to see how many people can start gravitating towards option B.

If you pay attention even here on f95 most games that get popular aren't always the best ones but instead it will be the ones that follow the patreon model with lots of smaller updates, because they kept getting promoted into oblivion for years until everyone knew about them.
Games that get released directly are deeply punished by this model and will be overlooked by most users, meanwhile the ones that keep being updated frequently will only keep getting more popular and being paid more regardless if they get abandoned in the future.

In the normal game market it is the opposite, games that are still under "early access" for years are usually looked down upon but here it is the exact opposite, which is funny especially if you consider how untechnical most porn games are. But hey, that's what it is now.
I'm not saying that patreon is entirely to blame but now that this model became the norm into the western porn market there will be many more abandoned games in our horizon because of it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Yngling

jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,294
23,000
Most devs make their money on their 2nd game. Assuming their 2nd game is an improvement from the 1st one. You build the base with the first project and start to get a following. Then you complete that game, which hopefully has good endings, and that will build hype for the new project. When you start the new project, you gain more followers in addition to the followers from the first game. So I don't necessarely agree it's better to milk a game, rather than to complete it. Completing the game, and starting a new one, will likely lead to more money. Very few devs are big out of the gate. Not even Pinkcake made a lot of money with AL on patreon.

As far as why so many games are abandoned. I think it's multiple reasons. Some of which are understandable and largly out of the control of the dev. Some of which are directly inflicted by the dev too.

- Personal issues. Everything from mental health to family issues to death.
- Sometimes the developers hardware fails and they didn't have any backups.
- Legal issues. This is very unlikely, but I recall a pokemon game that was abandoned because the pokemon company threatened legal action against it.
- Burnout. A lot of devs work on their games a lot. Too much even. You can't do a creative, and often tedious, project for 80-100 hours a week. Especially if you also have a regular job. This is also bad for physical and mental health.
- They wanted to make some quick money, and when that didn't happen they quit.
- They didn't have a plan but they wanted to make a game anyway. So they downloaded Daz and Renpy and starting working. But they winged it. They didn't think of anything beforehand, and they either get stuck or just made a crappy game that nobody liked so they gave up on it.
- Perfectionism. I can't think of any games that a perfectionist developer has completed. They either get abandoned, or updated so slowly they'd never be completed in any realistic scenario. Come Inside, AWAM, Ocean's games etc.
- Biting off more than you can chew. Animations. Too many characters. Complex branches (which means complex coding).

To go into more depth on those last 3 reasons:

You need to have a plan. This doesn't mean you need every detail written down, but you need a guideline or something to help you along. Some simple text documents can be a huge help to keep track of things, write down ideas and build a general gameplan or timeline for the game. A lot of games have crappy endings because the developer didn't know what the ending would be before they got to that point. Ideally, you know what the endings are, or at least an idea of them, before you release the first update. Building towards that end goal. Instead of building blindly and deciding "Well, I guess it's time for endings. Hmm...now what?" This is why so many endings feel rushed and sudden. And why many games don't make sense, the developer is making it up as they go along.

Perfectionism is the enemy of progress. You aren't ever going to get anything done if you do 1 step forward and 2 steps back. You do work, but it's not good enough. So you redo it. Then you redo it again. You do complex postwork. 5 minutes per render in Gimp/PS over 500 renders is a whopping 42 hours of work. Does that make the renders look really good? Sure, but you're making a game, not an art exhibit. I've said is elseware, but if you can do A+ art at max effort aim for B+ quality art in your games.

You have this grand idea. It's gonna be an amazing RPG style multi-branching game. It'll have great animations. Great writing. Great everything....and then reality hits you squarly in the face. You aren't a coder, so how exactly will you create code for this game? Google and tutorials? It's a start, but it's probably going to drive you batty. Have you ever made any animations before? Probably not. Do you know how to write multi-branching stories with a dozen LI's? Probably not. If you bite off more than you can chew you'll go nuts. You don't have these skills yet. Or maybe any skills at all. This goes into what I said first. Your 2nd game should generally be better than your 1st. Because you gain skills, learn and practice as you make your first game. Then apply those concepts to your new game.