T51bwinterized

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Oct 17, 2017
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Yeah the only reason I brought up Zhukov was to compare Stalin's dilemma when it came to Zhukov to Rowan's role in the castle. We don't actually need an in-depth analysis of Zhukov's merits or demerits as a general insofar as it doesn't pertain to Seeds of Chaos.

We have a history talk channel in the "open to everyone" segment of our discord channel. It might be a better place for it.
 

manscout

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Jun 13, 2018
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Ironically I would argue that if "the problem of generals" was the main reason for why the Twins treat Rowan the way they do, then they should honestly just be straight up nicer to a "good Rowan" that isn't actively trying to saboutage their major goals.

Think of it like this, no matter how high Rowan's utility might be, he should never be popular enough to incite a coup centered around his figure as long as the core of the Twins' corps remain "forces of chaos". If Rowan is trying to prevent looting and ravaging and pillaging at every turn then the orcs and demons will never get behind him against the Twins. If anything this would be the best case scenario for the Twins because they get to reap all the benefits of Rowan's sound administration while mocking Rowan's "orderly values" and placing the responsability on him for any decisions that are unpopular with the chaos races.

In this scenario, it makes perfect sense for the Twins to act antagonistic to Rowan in public, but behind the scenes they should definitely be trying to be more amiable to him and treating him well for his good job, instead of constantly harassing him for his values and trying to "break" him, because if they do that then they either fail and push him to a breaking point where he rebels against them, or they suceed and he becomes corrupted and then he has a real chance of becoming popular with the chaos forces and pose a threat to overthrow them, it is a lose-lose situation.

Maybe something to consider for chapter 2 anyway, a path where Rowan has demonstrated his loyalty to the Twins but isn't really keen on the whole "become an evil piece of shit and revel on the pain and suffering of others" that the Twins keep trying to force on him.
 

T51bwinterized

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Oct 17, 2017
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I'll be honest. The fact that sneaking Delane out of the orc camp results in her either leaving the city on bad terms with Rowan or just getting absolutely

SHREKT

out of existence leaves me feeling kind of sad. Juliet does salve the pain a little bit. Can't wait to tell her that we killed her Daddy.
Rowan saved her because he was working for the enemy and lied about it. The fuck did you expect to happen?
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

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May 1, 2021
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Ironically I would argue that if "the problem of generals" was the main reason for why the Twins treat Rowan the way they do, then they should honestly just be straight up nicer to a "good Rowan" that isn't actively trying to saboutage their major goals.

Think of it like this, no matter how high Rowan's utility might be, he should never be popular enough to incite a coup centered around his figure as long as the core of the Twins' corps remain "forces of chaos". If Rowan is trying to prevent looting and ravaging and pillaging at every turn then the orcs and demons will never get behind him against the Twins. If anything this would be the best case scenario for the Twins because they get to reap all the benefits of Rowan's sound administration while mocking Rowan's "orderly values" and placing the responsability on him for any decisions that are unpopular with the chaos races.
The only problem I see is that I can't a see a "good" Rowan not also trying to sabotage the twins. Rowan can't stop the troops from looting, ravaging, and pillaging, and then turn around and just let the twins do what they do during the fall of Rasteal. What good is trying to stop that behavior when the twins just over rule him and allow it anyways. Rasteal was a harsh reminder to a good Rowan that there is no softening of the twins. So if he is to be a good person he must oppose them as much as he can.

Now I don't think either chaos or order are necessarily good or evil in and of themselves. There is nothing saying that I person in a might makes right society can use their might to help people and maintain peace, and I think we are all familiar with the concept of corrupt bureaucracies. But chaos would tend to attract the type that wants to fulfil their baser desires, and order can only tolerate so much blatant evil before that order starts to unravel. So they do have a certain amount of tendency in a certain direction.
 

Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
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I'll be honest. The fact that sneaking Delane out of the orc camp results in her either leaving the city on bad terms with Rowan or just getting absolutely

SHREKT

out of existence leaves me feeling kind of sad. Juliet does salve the pain a little bit. Can't wait to tell her that we killed her Daddy.
I've mentioned this before (and this is pretty much a repost of my previous thoughts), but I actually don't think Delane's fate when you back Werden is that bad all things considered.
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Mag. Opus

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Mar 18, 2018
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Rowan saved her because he was working for the enemy and lied about it. The fuck did you expect to happen?
Lol. I said I was sad. Not that I was surprised or enraged.


I've mentioned this before (and this is pretty much a repost of my previous thoughts), but I actually don't think Delane's fate when you back Werden is that bad all things considered.
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HentaiGamerN00b

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Sep 6, 2020
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The only problem I see is that I can't a see a "good" Rowan not also trying to sabotage the twins. Rowan can't stop the troops from looting, ravaging, and pillaging, and then turn around and just let the twins do what they do during the fall of Rasteal. What good is trying to stop that behavior when the twins just over rule him and allow it anyways. Rasteal was a harsh reminder to a good Rowan that there is no softening of the twins. So if he is to be a good person he must oppose them as much as he can.

Now I don't think either chaos or order are necessarily good or evil in and of themselves. There is nothing saying that I person in a might makes right society can use their might to help people and maintain peace, and I think we are all familiar with the concept of corrupt bureaucracies. But chaos would tend to attract the type that wants to fulfil their baser desires, and order can only tolerate so much blatant evil before that order starts to unravel. So they do have a certain amount of tendency in a certain direction.
In a game based on corruption do you expect to be "good"... That is a very relative term... Rowan at the end of all is still human and he had his reserves when the twins in the more dumb way possible ask for his opinion (as a slave opinion matters anyway because Rowan at the end of the day is just that) what he thinks about ruling, so we can choose between maintain a class society pure Old Regime Style where if you born peasant, you, your family and descendants will be always a fucking peasant and die between poverty, lack of health and famine independently of whatever achievements or services they could had done... An option he thinks maintain stability but his "true colors" comes if Might Makes Right is chosen, he definitely put clear to the twins and even his wife that he doesn't like much the Monarchy, dammit the guy at the end could just conquer for the twins everything and then betray them with the power he hopes for to obtain from the chaos god.

The thing is not if chaos is or not evil, it doesn't matter anyway, it is proved that from chaos itself an order came from, what we think of what is order can be chaos, because the order in-between the chaos came from the interaction of all the forces in it, or in a society, all the actors involved... This came from the harmonization between the interactions... Is because of that Europe don't devolve to the Stone Age after Rome collapse by emerging laws without any regulator of any State kind like was the Lex Mercatoria. In the case from this game, if Venus Noire Team wants it, Rowan can end up fucking all the Monarchy to then fuck up the twins for good and leaving the world for itself, to the "invisible hand", for the people to be free, until and asshole group of bandits came over with the Monarchy shit again as declare as origin of The State into the Predatory State Theory.
 
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monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
668
2,725
Why is it that Seeds has so few reviews????

Have large swaths of them been purged? Is it intimidating to write one for the game? Do the type of people who review games not like Seeds? WTF is going on!

It is so confusing. You'd think such a heady game like Seeds would have lots of intellectual reviews. :geek:

Admittedly, it is rather difficult to pinpoint one's specific attitude about the title; I am still rather undecided exactly how I feel about the title myself. Since the title is a WIP and many the routes with vibes I enjoy have yet to be completed or started- while there are routes I hate that have tons of narrative.

But like; I'm waiting to review b/c I want to see if I think its a 4 star game or a 5 star game, not b/c I haven't formed some opinion on the title at all.

You'd think with like 6 or 7 million page views and 600 pages of forum commentary there would be like 300-500 reviews not 90.

Heck :unsure:
 

Fleep

Member
Jul 16, 2018
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Rowan saved her because he was working for the enemy and lied about it. The fuck did you expect to happen?
Well, she could understand Rowan's situation and what he risked to save her...

Still, I don't really know what happend on that route or how they parting on bad terms is written since I always ship her with Ulcro (the old orc, I think that what he was called, I'm really bad with names). I hope we can see more of Delaine in that route btw, it's nice seeing her enjoying some orc cock. Also I feel like she could play an important role in Rowan overthrowing the Twins: Ulcro controls a big chunk of the Twins army, Delaine controls Ulcro, and maybe we can control Delaine...
 
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manscout

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Jun 13, 2018
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The only problem I see is that I can't a see a "good" Rowan not also trying to sabotage the twins. Rowan can't stop the troops from looting, ravaging, and pillaging, and then turn around and just let the twins do what they do during the fall of Rasteal. What good is trying to stop that behavior when the twins just over rule him and allow it anyways. Rasteal was a harsh reminder to a good Rowan that there is no softening of the twins. So if he is to be a good person he must oppose them as much as he can.
It would be selfish of Rowan and absolutely as far from heroic as he could be, but to me it doesn't sound impossible that a bargain could be struck where he will help the Twins conquer the world as long as he is allowed to have his own "little private piece of heaven".

My point is that this would be more of an alternative branch of the "Submissive Rowan" route, where he is obedient and loyal to the Twins, but instead of it being about he getting dommed by them and corrupted into being a masochist that enjoys being abused and humiliated by the Twins, we reach a state where while he will never see the world the way the Twins see it, he also doesn't find it worthwhile to plot for their downfall (too much personal risk), so instead, as long as they can assure him that he will be allowed to have a comfortable life where he and his loved ones will be left in peace without being harassed for not vibing with the whole chaos lifestyle, then he will work for them without a hidden agenda.
Now I don't think either chaos or order are necessarily good or evil in and of themselves. There is nothing saying that I person in a might makes right society can use their might to help people and maintain peace, and I think we are all familiar with the concept of corrupt bureaucracies. But chaos would tend to attract the type that wants to fulfil their baser desires, and order can only tolerate so much blatant evil before that order starts to unravel. So they do have a certain amount of tendency in a certain direction.
While I think the more nuanced discussion of the merits of "order" and "chaos" without dumbing it down to valuative terms like "good" or "evil" is interesting from a theoretical aspect, I think that as of how it applies to the SoC world there is not much room for ambivalence.

It would be interesting to delve into how the philosophy of "Chaos" works in the SoC world, like you said, it seems that it attracts people that are simply looking to fulfill their baser desires, but I wonder if that isn't also part of the philosophy of chaos, I wonder if they consider baser desires to be the ones that are most true to oneself and denying those in favor of "moral satisfaction" goes against the logic of "might makes right", because you are essentially surrendering your true self to the rule of a moral order.
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HentaiGamerN00b

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Sep 6, 2020
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It would be selfish of Rowan and absolutely as far from heroic as he could be, but to me it doesn't sound impossible that a bargain could be struck where he will help the Twins conquer the world as long as he is allowed to have his own "little private piece of heaven".
It is possible but, think as the twins... Why would they do that?. Think about slavery... Why a master must grant something to a person that is in a literal sense their property?. The slave itself must be grateful of not being treated as a whore, punished or killed by the masters opinion of how the slave is doing the work.
My point is that this would be more of an alternative branch of the "Submissive Rowan" route, where he is obedient and loyal to the Twins, but instead of it being about he getting dommed by them and corrupted into being a masochist that enjoys being abused and humiliated by the Twins, we reach a state where while he will never see the world the way the Twins see it, he also doesn't find it worthwhile to plot for their downfall (too much personal risk), so instead, as long as they can assure him that he will be allowed to have a comfortable life where he and his loved ones will be left in peace without being harassed for not vibing with the whole chaos lifestyle, then he will work for them without a hidden agenda.
The twins can said to him that, but still... They are The Masters and Rowan just a slave at the end of the day, this bring to me memories about the Bible, do you know about Joseph?... They guy who was sell as a slave by his brothers and then was bought in Egypt, there his Master recognize his skills because he was very educated and could do administrative work for good, but his wife wanted other kind of services from him... And even when it was proved that he didn't do anything wrong to his Master he was put in jail anyway... That's the life of a slave. The twins have his life and of his wife in their hands... And besides that, the lives of many innocents villagers of all the towns conquered or under their protection; not only that, the twins state to him that if he cannot achieve the high bar they put to him to accomplish in a mission, they'll do what they pleased as in Rastedel... Those are motivation enough to be submissive or be rebellious... It's up to that player choice.
While I think the more nuanced discussion of the merits of "order" and "chaos" without dumbing it down to valuative terms like "good" or "evil" is interesting from a theoretical aspect, I think that as of how it applies to the SoC world there is not much room for ambivalence.

It would be interesting to delve into how the philosophy of "Chaos" works in the SoC world, like you said, it seems that it attracts people that are simply looking to fulfill their baser desires, but I wonder if that isn't also part of the philosophy of chaos, I wonder if they consider baser desires to be the ones that are most true to oneself and denying those in favor of "moral satisfaction" goes against the logic of "might makes right", because you are essentially surrendering your true self to the rule of a moral order.
I believe that depends in how it is focused... There is not much to opt, i mean, an static order as could be the Feudalism sucks a lot, specially if the rulers commit the most retarded decisions they have the right of it just because they have the luck to be born in the right place at the right time... While Might Makes Right oriented to Chaos can do more interesting things because the attractiveness is the Freedom it have to the follower, someone as enslaved as Rowan is could appreciate this, in fact, he does when talking to his wife he hopes for the twins doing it right, for Rowan that philosophy is overextended beyond the use of brutal force, and Rowan in-game demonstrate it when a mercenary wanted to go home in a village with problems to raised productivity. The man said he was a farmer and knows well how to make to produce the land because it's familiar with it and with the knowledge to do it, but an orc state the man is greedy because by the rules of conquest he was the first in put a foot there so the village is now his property.

Rowan can make a decision, to favor the orc or the mercenary, if he choose the orc Might Makes Right, the orc and the mercenary battles for the village, but after a brief time the orc strength surpass the mercenary and Rowan said to the orc to be sure the village productivity must raise. In the other option the man leaves to the village with the promise to achieve the rise of productivity, the orc complains but Rowan said if he indeed violate his rights as a conquer then Might Makes Right, he can opt to the twins because they put Rowan in that place of Power or he can deal with Rowan personally, is up to the orc, the orc shits and learn. So Rowan in this example of Might Makes Right he have the freedom to goes by Force or by Meritocracy, because if the orc couldn't accomplish to maintain or rise the productivity, then he's not qualified to get shit done, so, at the end, we can assume the village could get in a better state thanks to Rowan decision to put a person that came from it and knows well the land and was a farmer before mercenary, plus the village now is more loyal to the twins... Now think how the orc could achieve that, he could only order by menacing them, the orcs in the entire game only steals what they need so, in that village the orc just rule by fear until they get dead by exhaustive work or something worse (like famine or sickness like covid or something like that).

Another example of Might Makes Right is every time the game put the player in the opt to conquer or trade a village, we can perfectly burn, stole , rape, enslave the men to the mines, enslave the women to be breed by creatures in the breeding pits, their kids enslave in the castle as servants to be corrupted and the babies to serve as food for the beast in the castle. But don't, we can perfectly trade with them... There is nothing more chaotic than The Market itself when isn't regulated, but still the more free is The Market the more wealth for everyone in society, pretty curiously for the believers in The Order, as i state before, The Chaos have it's own Order by harmonization of the entities in it, and by Might Makes Right we always have the choice at hand, We Can one thing or another.
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
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While I think the more nuanced discussion of the merits of "order" and "chaos" without dumbing it down to valuative terms like "good" or "evil" is interesting from a theoretical aspect, I think that as of how it applies to the SoC world there is not much room for ambivalence.

It would be interesting to delve into how the philosophy of "Chaos" works in the SoC world, like you said, it seems that it attracts people that are simply looking to fulfill their baser desires, but I wonder if that isn't also part of the philosophy of chaos, I wonder if they consider baser desires to be the ones that are most true to oneself and denying those in favor of "moral satisfaction" goes against the logic of "might makes right", because you are essentially surrendering your true self to the rule of a moral order.
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I do think there is room for nuanced discussion about the nature of chaos in SoC. While Andras and the orcs embrace the most obvious implication of their might-makes-right philosophy, that of violence, other beings of chaos implement it in different way that could more accurately be called something like skill-makes-right or competence-makes-right.

Look at Cla-min and her troop for example. I would hardly call them evil, opportunistic and self-interested for sure, but not capital "E" evil by any means. Cla-min's father used to run the troop, bust she didn't dispose him or anything, he is still part of the troop. But when she grew to be a more competent con-artist merchant that him, he stepped aside and let her take the lead instead. If another member want to take the lead they can't just kill her for the position they have to prove they are a better merchant than she is. In addition Cla-min doesn't just look out for her own good, but the good of her whole family.

The cubi are another example. While they are not opposed to using violence, cleverness and sexual prowess seem to be much more important for determining their pecking order. X'zaratl isn't on top because she could kill the other cubi (though she probably could) but because no of them could out scheme her. During the murder mystery event the cubi express a belief that X'zaratl already knows who did it because they are all certain that she is that much better than they are.

While choas dos also inherently also have a sort of or order with in it's might makes right philosofy I think the way it differeniates from order is how accepting the populace is of serving under less competent leaders and how accepting they are of a change in leadership. Look at Rasteal, the baron is grossly incompetent as a leader, yet the the orchestrators of the coup all agree that they need to take the Baron alive because they still need him to obstinately be the leader of the country. Then when he dies they are proven right as riots start breaking out almost immediately.

Compare this to chaotic sotieties, where leadership is expected to change as frequently as it is able to. EVery chaotic subject want to be the leader, because as the great late Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king." It is rare for an orc chief to live as old as Ulcro because anytime one an orc thinks they have a decent shot at beating their chief in a fight they will challenge them. Eventually someone will be better, or just get lucky and win their fight and BOOM they are the new chief at least until someone else comes along to beat them. Andras, has of course, disrupted this normal system as he is so far beyond any orc that no single orc has any hope of disposing him. But I'm sure everyone of them wishes they could. Just as I'm sure that All of Cla-mins troop dream of one day replacing her, and all of X'zaratl's cubi dream of taking her position as well.
 

manscout

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2018
1,216
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It is possible but, think as the twins... Why would they do that?. Think about slavery... Why a master must grant something to a person that is in a literal sense their property?. The slave itself must be grateful of not being treated as a whore, punished or killed by the masters opinion of how the slave is doing the work.

The twins can said to him that, but still... They are The Masters and Rowan just a slave at the end of the day, this bring to me memories about the Bible, do you know about Joseph?... They guy who was sell as a slave by his brothers and then was bought in Egypt, there his Master recognize his skills because he was very educated and could do administrative work for good, but his wife wanted other kind of services from him... And even when it was proved that he didn't do anything wrong to his Master he was put in jail anyway... That's the life of a slave. The twins have his life and of his wife in their hands... And besides that, the lives of many innocents villagers of all the towns conquered or under their protection; not only that, the twins state to him that if he cannot achieve the high bar they put to him to accomplish in a mission, they'll do what they pleased as in Rastedel... Those are motivation enough to be submissive or be rebellious... It's up to that player choice.
Rowan was not raised as a slave and for all we know it is not a common institution in Solansia's order. Rowan is serving the twins under duress and has no reason to be loyal or greateful to them at first, yet the Twins need him in a position of power (direct control of a lot of personel and their operations) so obviously they need to be worried about him instead of just assuming they are untouchable. Rowan is not accepting of his role as "property" unless the Twins succeed in "breaking" him, if they realize that they can't do that but they still need him commanding most of their operations, they'd have to be massive idiots to think pointlessly provoking him won't result in a painful betrayal, when they could instead be trying to tempt him into accepting his fate as their servant for reasons other than direct seduction or corruption, such as offering him a comfortable life without them trying to molest his wife and torture every person he cares about every other week. On the whole they would still do their whims and commit general atrocities when they feel like it, but be willing to allow Rowan to safeguard a few things dear to him.
I do think there is room for nuanced discussion about the nature of chaos in SoC. While Andras and the orcs embrace the most obvious implication of their might-makes-right philosophy, that of violence, other beings of chaos implement it in different way that could more accurately be called something like skill-makes-right or competence-makes-right.

Look at Cla-min and her troop for example. I would hardly call them evil, opportunistic and self-interested for sure, but not capital "E" evil by any means. Cla-min's father used to run the troop, bust she didn't dispose him or anything, he is still part of the troop. But when she grew to be a more competent con-artist merchant that him, he stepped aside and let her take the lead instead. If another member want to take the lead they can't just kill her for the position they have to prove they are a better merchant than she is. In addition Cla-min doesn't just look out for her own good, but the good of her whole family.

The cubi are another example. While they are not opposed to using violence, cleverness and sexual prowess seem to be much more important for determining their pecking order. X'zaratl isn't on top because she could kill the other cubi (though she probably could) but because no of them could out scheme her. During the murder mystery event the cubi express a belief that X'zaratl already knows who did it because they are all certain that she is that much better than they are.

While choas dos also inherently also have a sort of or order with in it's might makes right philosofy I think the way it differeniates from order is how accepting the populace is of serving under less competent leaders and how accepting they are of a change in leadership. Look at Rasteal, the baron is grossly incompetent as a leader, yet the the orchestrators of the coup all agree that they need to take the Baron alive because they still need him to obstinately be the leader of the country. Then when he dies they are proven right as riots start breaking out almost immediately.

Compare this to chaotic sotieties, where leadership is expected to change as frequently as it is able to. EVery chaotic subject want to be the leader, because as the great late Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king." It is rare for an orc chief to live as old as Ulcro because anytime one an orc thinks they have a decent shot at beating their chief in a fight they will challenge them. Eventually someone will be better, or just get lucky and win their fight and BOOM they are the new chief at least until someone else comes along to beat them. Andras, has of course, disrupted this normal system as he is so far beyond any orc that no single orc has any hope of disposing him. But I'm sure everyone of them wishes they could. Just as I'm sure that All of Cla-mins troop dream of one day replacing her, and all of X'zaratl's cubi dream of taking her position as well.
With the argument of meritocracy, I think this gets addressed at some point in the game but the issue with Might Makes Right is that there is no obligation for "fair play", because true Might Makes Right is simply who can enforce their leadership. Certain specialized groups can create their own codes of conduct to try to keep things relatively fair and test people on the skills they actually value for the roles of leadership, but if you ideologically follow Chaos then you don't get to complain if someone decides to simply assassinate their competition and fraud their way into being the leader, of course you have the prerogative to retaliate in whatever way you see fit since Might Makes Right and all that, but it is easy to see how inherently destructive such a system can quickly become, and realistically the people being chosen as "the best" should hardly be there for the skills you actually wanted out of them as much as simply for their skills at undermining their competition.
 

HentaiGamerN00b

Active Member
Sep 6, 2020
939
806
Rowan was not raised as a slave and for all we know it is not a common institution in Solansia's order. Rowan is serving the twins under duress and has no reason to be loyal or greateful to them at first, yet the Twins need him in a position of power (direct control of a lot of personel and their operations) so obviously they need to be worried about him instead of just assuming they are untouchable. Rowan is not accepting of his role as "property" unless the Twins succeed in "breaking" him, if they realize that they can't do that but they still need him commanding most of their operations, they'd have to be massive idiots to think pointlessly provoking him won't result in a painful betrayal, when they could instead be trying to tempt him into accepting his fate as their servant for reasons other than direct seduction or corruption, such as offering him a comfortable life without them trying to molest his wife and torture every person he cares about every other week. On the whole they would still do their whims and commit general atrocities when they feel like it, but be willing to allow Rowan to safeguard a few things dear to him.
Pal as many of the people through history that ends enslave, Rowan can and must be considered as a slave, isn't something his condition to be grateful or not seriously is a metaphor, because he and his wife could have been a worse treatment, the reason for keeping him in a position at the Castle is not only because he's valuable, is for torture him because of him the world he knows and the people he protected will be one way or another under the Twins rule, everything for was he had fought for is now been corrupted or under a rule that he never stood for. Nonetheless it doesn't mean that Rowan as many people who was enslave end accepting the fact that he's property, but in the practice he's like one, Rastedel confirms that when he explained all the situation and by reasonably it could be, for the twins don't care, he must obey, he must reach the high bar, it was explained in every town were Andras lead a conquest and make him choose to kill or not an ancient man, if he obeys or not there are always consequences in which Rowan will be directly or not implicated on it. What happen if Rowan do not achieve requirements on days 22 and 60?, Game Over as simply as that.

As many people in a power position, they all subsequently watched over their actions, as when Rowan try to figure it out the pendant on him and then he was warned about the consequences of that, and there can be assume that in certain actions by Rowan can be taken too comforting in his position of Power in the Castle or by trying to be rebellious, the twins at certain way are informed, not only as Andras example, when Jezera ask to Rowan to accompany her to visit a potential ally, she demonstrate who's in Power, she kill a Queen, in Her Territory, at the Nose of Her Guards and at the sight of Rowan to see it all... The sight she does to Rowan isn't for nothing is a warning to not get too comfortable in his position less to be rebellious, he's not even near in the position of Power as that Queen and she was killed as nothing, the twins doesn't have too much motivations to treat him better in the future, an example of that is Helayna, she was under a spell that makes her a cockwhore and it doesn't matter how important is she for Rowan, she can't be saved of a worse destiny without consequences, the twins are so low in motivations to keep him happy that if Rowan choose to not claim Helayna, after that vision of being raped by everyone, he and his wife are invited to dinner with the twins and there is Andras fucking Helayna there, if Rowan claim her then you'll have a break in your marriage; because as far in extension of the story goes they are still at Power over him. The main person who's Rowan can be have as something near like an ally is Nasim, and only when their interest coincide at heart.
 

Oriandu

Engaged Member
Sep 1, 2017
2,503
4,794
Rowan saved her because he was working for the enemy and lied about it. The fuck did you expect to happen?
For Delane to be brought back to Castle Bloodmeen, probably. You know... where Rowan's wife, demonic masters, an armada or orcs, fantasy monsters, and sex demons dwell. >.>

I've seen that topic broached before here. The castle is complicated enough as it is and the last thing Rowan needs is to bring in a relatively innocent woman who is ill suited to protect herself in such an environment. Especially with his potentially jealous, corrupted wife roaming the halls.
 
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