Pal as many of the people through history that ends enslave, Rowan can and must be considered as a slave, isn't something his condition to be grateful or not seriously is a metaphor, because he and his wife could have been a worse treatment, the reason for keeping him in a position at the Castle is not only because he's valuable, is for torture him because of him the world he knows and the people he protected will be one way or another under the Twins rule, everything for was he had fought for is now been corrupted or under a rule that he never stood for. Nonetheless it doesn't mean that Rowan as many people who was enslave end accepting the fact that he's property, but in the practice he's like one, Rastedel confirms that when he explained all the situation and by reasonably it could be, for the twins don't care, he must obey, he must reach the high bar, it was explained in every town were Andras lead a conquest and make him choose to kill or not an ancient man, if he obeys or not there are always consequences in which Rowan will be directly or not implicated on it. What happen if Rowan do not achieve requirements on days 22 and 60?, Game Over as simply as that.
As many people in a power position, they all subsequently watched over their actions, as when Rowan try to figure it out the pendant on him and then he was warned about the consequences of that, and there can be assume that in certain actions by Rowan can be taken too comforting in his position of Power in the Castle or by trying to be rebellious, the twins at certain way are informed, not only as Andras example, when Jezera ask to Rowan to accompany her to visit a potential ally, she demonstrate who's in Power, she kill a Queen, in Her Territory, at the Nose of Her Guards and at the sight of Rowan to see it all... The sight she does to Rowan isn't for nothing is a warning to not get too comfortable in his position less to be rebellious, he's not even near in the position of Power as that Queen and she was killed as nothing, the twins doesn't have too much motivations to treat him better in the future, an example of that is Helayna, she was under a spell that makes her a cockwhore and it doesn't matter how important is she for Rowan, she can't be saved of a worse destiny without consequences, the twins are so low in motivations to keep him happy that if Rowan choose to not claim Helayna, after that vision of being raped by everyone, he and his wife are invited to dinner with the twins and there is Andras fucking Helayna there, if Rowan claim her then you'll have a break in your marriage; because as far in extension of the story goes they are still at Power over him. The main person who's Rowan can be have as something near like an ally is Nasim, and only when their interest coincide at heart.
Game over, to both Rowan and the twins, trying to be the voice of neutrality here, the twins have every reason to want to keep Rowan happyish, they are screwd without him, if he fails to take the fortress not so much, but if he does not get the orcs or goes to Rastadel? Them they are everything but described to have been destroyed.
Rowan is a servant of the twins, not exactly a slave, but a servant, the twins are like children playing with toys that daddy left them ,with demonic arrogance and pride on top, Jezera killed an noble drow women yes, but at the same time she did so because she overestimated herself and got out with nothing. I find it hard to believe that the twins actualy have any good great plans, or make concrete plans together, Adras seems like he only thinks of the next fight, and Jezera of how can she overcomplicate matters and use subterfuge to acomplish it. They keep him in a position of power because, by their own word, they need him, not to torture him, if they did not need him they would have killed him and be done with it.
So they are in a middle ground, too pridefull to understand how much they need him , and to arrogant to treat him any better than any other of the high placed servants that cant wipe the floor with their asses. (So only the researcher is given enough security to not get to much more that a pestering half demon girl)
I'm a bit confused on how to achieve the two "newer" scenes with X'zartyl*. *Definitely misspelled, mb.
There is one where Rowan feels "guilty" and Alexia whips him with Succi-bosses help. Also there is an unfinished scene where Alexia dominates Rowan with Succi-bosses help.
My guess is that you need to both not fuck a lot with Rowan, and also avoid all NTR from the twins for Alexia? This way their hidden "loving marriage stat" is high. I tried this and wasn't able to get the catacombs or mission 1 scenes either.
For Delane to be brought back to Castle Bloodmeen, probably. You know... where Rowan's wife, demonic masters, an armada or orcs, fantasy monsters, and sex demons dwell. >.>
I've seen that topic broached before here. The castle is complicated enough as it is and the last thing Rowan needs is to bring in a relatively innocent woman who is ill suited to protect herself in such an environment. Especially with his potentially jealous, corrupted wife roaming the halls.
Oh yeah. Juliet is going to have a terrible time.
That aside, and I could be misremembering this, Delane wanted to set up wherever Rowan was operating out in the field in order to help him subvert the twins.
It's a moot point though.
Well, you will still get a scene at the celebration dinner where the twins have her service them as a way of poking Rowan, as well as a non sex scene where she starts to recover and comes to Rowan to ask for help escaping.
But at this time you miss the majority of her content by not claiming her. Then again we also know she is getting a pretty major rework to her arc, so who knows what the future holds.
I'm a bit confused on how to achieve the two "newer" scenes with X'zartyl*. *Definitely misspelled, mb.
There is one where Rowan feels "guilty" and Alexia whips him with Succi-bosses help. Also there is an unfinished scene where Alexia dominates Rowan with Succi-bosses help.
My guess is that you need to both not fuck a lot with Rowan, and also avoid all NTR from the twins for Alexia? This way their hidden "loving marriage stat" is high. I tried this and wasn't able to get the catacombs or mission 1 scenes either.
The whipping one is called xzaratl_guilt_solution to trigger you have to be past week 22 and have a guilt score of over 35. The Other one is jezeraNTRdetox and is tricky to trigger. First you have to be past week 25, next Alexia has to have whipped Rowan, Alexia has to have a X'Zaratl influence score of over 9, you can't have shared your room with Helayna, and Alexia can't be a maid.
Game over, to both Rowan and the twins, trying to be the voice of neutrality here, the twins have every reason to want to keep Rowan happyish, they are screwd without him, if he fails to take the fortress not so much, but if he does not get the orcs or goes to Rastadel? Them they are everything but described to have been destroyed.
I don't know if we were playing the same game... When the game starts before trapping Rowan the twins were enough capable of gathering a few forces and coordinate to making a trap to the so call "Hero" who in this world it seems that Rowan is the incarnation of Sun Tzu or is some kind of Stephen Hawking in military strategies despite being a fucking commoner while the rest of the monarchy seems to be at the level of Beaves & Butthead in military capacities and besides of that he fall in the most obvious trap by going to save his wife without any preparation so... Well... After this introduction and Rowan was put to work in a Power Position in the Castle because refuse is an immediate Game Over, as far a we The Players interpreting Rowan, when really, seriously, when Rowan encounter a military force against him at the moment we take a village or Town?.
What we can encounter is resistance of the commoners, but in any moment as far as i remember, Rowan never encounter scouts, tax collectors, soldiers, even when this towns knows what were happening more or less to other towns that began trading or being conquered or reduce to dust by the Twins Champion Rowan, Rowan never encountered real professional resistance from a real army, that could be at least compound of mercenaries or soldiers of Raeve Keep to retake a town or a small group sent to intercept and defend a town, in fact, for them is was there wasn't happening anything. In fact, that is the more funny because relatively talking, Raeve Keep was pretty near to many towns attacked by Rowan, imaging that in a day, a town that serves or at least trade with the Twins a Tax Collector comes...
Rowan goes into all that Kingdom as a dog in its house, conquering, trading, taking, looting, etc... The only real opposition are Raeve Keep and Rastedel, if it wasn't for the Twins demanding it would be perfectly possible to conquer or trade with all the villages to side to the Twins, what are they gonna do (Raeve Keep & Rastedel) when the money from taxes and the food don't get to them and began to starvation?. It would be difficult for the Twins to get the shit done? probably, but when a Kingdom in a practical sense lose village after another without making opposition to the aggressors well, they can have their chance, i mean, if their Father could put in their knees the Monarchs and wasn't after Rowan take the lead, a fucking commoner, to stop and destroy all the Twin's Father made, definitely they can have a chance.
Rowan is a servant of the twins, not exactly a slave, but a servant, the twins are like children playing with toys that daddy left them ,with demonic arrogance and pride on top, Jezera killed an noble drow women yes, but at the same time she did so because she overestimated herself and got out with nothing. I find it hard to believe that the twins actualy have any good great plans, or make concrete plans together, Adras seems like he only thinks of the next fight, and Jezera of how can she overcomplicate matters and use subterfuge to acomplish it. They keep him in a position of power because, by their own word, they need him, not to torture him, if they did not need him they would have killed him and be done with it.
So they are in a middle ground, too pridefull to understand how much they need him , and to arrogant to treat him any better than any other of the high placed servants that cant wipe the floor with their asses. (So only the researcher is given enough security to not get to much more that a pestering half demon girl)
A Servant is a free person who is in service of a Lord, the Lord have obligations to that person as could be home, food, vestment while the Servant have to submit completely to the Lord authority, give rent and help in their Lord's warfare. There is a problem with this, Rowan was taken as a prisoner, subdued by magic means and by the time all of that happens to him, the Demons were familiarized with the philosophy of Might Makes Right not with Feudalism, if Rowan suggest to them when asked by government opinion Feudalism bullshit, then is when Rowan is named in the Court of The Twins as some kind of Vassal without even being even a Servant because in the first place he was forcefully to obey and service them.
Read carefully my post cited by you, the torture is not physically but spiritual, mental and morally... They acknowledge his capacities but he's still the murderer of their Father, if it was true that they need him so much at the point to try to have him at any cost, then it doesn't make any sense if Rowan refuse to serve them the fucking Game Over, Rowan could be death but as far as we know the Monarchy in Rastedel are just too much more dumb than them... Yes, the twins have many problems, coordination and ways to spend efforts, time and resources, but they could manage to gather before taking over Rowan a small group of "vassals" by themselves, they are not more worthless than the Royalty and Nobles in all the Kingdom that under their noses lose all the villages and an important post as Raeve Keep could be.
Just think about it, Jezera had more reason to be arrogant before that Elf Queen, she had Rowan on her side, the only one who could stop her Father to conquer the world, the problem is that they know that Rowan can be managing things in his own way by taking the charge of the Castle in ways that the Twins wouldn't never disapprove or by suspecting to be rebellious, they want Rowan embrace the corruption, by that, they would had a Loyal General worth of trust to them, that's why they send to him that Elf Blondie, the Best Friend of Jezera and the occasional visits of X'zaralt, while Andras goes with him to meet with the orcs warchiefs and conquer a village and prove his loyalty.
I don't know if we were playing the same game... When the game starts before trapping Rowan the twins were enough capable of gathering a few forces and coordinate to making a trap to the so call "Hero" who in this world it seems that Rowan is the incarnation of Sun Tzu or is some kind of Stephen Hawking in military strategies despite being a fucking commoner while the rest of the monarchy seems to be at the level of Beaves & Butthead in military capacities and besides of that he fall in the most obvious trap by going to save his wife without any preparation so... Well... After this introduction and Rowan was put to work in a Power Position in the Castle because refuse is an immediate Game Over, as far a we The Players interpreting Rowan, when really, seriously, when Rowan encounter a military force against him at the moment we take a village or Town?.
What we can encounter is resistance of the commoners, but in any moment as far as i remember, Rowan never encounter scouts, tax collectors, soldiers, even when this towns knows what were happening more or less to other towns that began trading or being conquered or reduce to dust by the Twins Champion Rowan, Rowan never encountered real professional resistance from a real army, that could be at least compound of mercenaries or soldiers of Raeve Keep to retake a town or a small group sent to intercept and defend a town, in fact, for them is was there wasn't happening anything. In fact, that is the more funny because relatively talking, Raeve Keep was pretty near to many towns attacked by Rowan, imaging that in a day, a town that serves or at least trade with the Twins a Tax Collector comes...
Rowan goes into all that Kingdom as a dog in its house, conquering, trading, taking, looting, etc... The only real opposition are Raeve Keep and Rastedel, if it wasn't for the Twins demanding it would be perfectly possible to conquer or trade with all the villages to side to the Twins, what are they gonna do (Raeve Keep & Rastedel) when the money from taxes and the food don't get to them and began to starvation?. It would be difficult for the Twins to get the shit done? probably, but when a Kingdom in a practical sense lose village after another without making opposition to the aggressors well, they can have their chance, i mean, if their Father could put in their knees the Monarchs and wasn't after Rowan take the lead, a fucking commoner, to stop and destroy all the Twin's Father made, definitely they can have a chance.
A Servant is a free person who is in service of a Lord, the Lord have obligations to that person as could be home, food, vestment while the Servant have to submit completely to the Lord authority, give rent and help in their Lord's warfare. There is a problem with this, Rowan was taken as a prisoner, subdued by magic means and by the time all of that happens to him, the Demons were familiarized with the philosophy of Might Makes Right not with Feudalism, if Rowan suggest to them when asked by government opinion Feudalism bullshit, then is when Rowan is named in the Court of The Twins as some kind of Vassal without even being even a Servant because in the first place he was forcefully to obey and service them.
Read carefully my post cited by you, the torture is not physically but spiritual, mental and morally... They acknowledge his capacities but he's still the murderer of their Father, if it was true that they need him so much at the point to try to have him at any cost, then it doesn't make any sense if Rowan refuse to serve them the fucking Game Over, Rowan could be death but as far as we know the Monarchy in Rastedel are just too much more dumb than them... Yes, the twins have many problems, coordination and ways to spend efforts, time and resources, but they could manage to gather before taking over Rowan a small group of "vassals" by themselves, they are not more worthless than the Royalty and Nobles in all the Kingdom that under their noses lose all the villages and an important post as Raeve Keep could be.
Just think about it, Jezera had more reason to be arrogant before that Elf Queen, she had Rowan on her side, the only one who could stop her Father to conquer the world, the problem is that they know that Rowan can be managing things in his own way by taking the charge of the Castle in ways that the Twins wouldn't never disapprove or by suspecting to be rebellious, they want Rowan embrace the corruption, by that, they would had a Loyal General worth of trust to them, that's why they send to him that Elf Blondie, the Best Friend of Jezera and the occasional visits of X'zaralt, while Andras goes with him to meet with the orcs warchiefs and conquer a village and prove his loyalty.
I don't know if I would say that's an apt comparison. I don't disagree with what you've said as clearly the twins hold the power, but to call Rowan a helpless middleman whose only purpose is to be used and disposed of is inaccurate. He's given plenty of opportunities to operate on his own and the further we go into act one the more he's able to push his own agenda. The twins are the angry brutes screaming "don't fail me" as Rowan is given incredible leeway to fulfill his mission. He has way more agency in his decisions than the Bane comparison gives him credit for.
I don't know if I would say that's an apt comparison. I don't disagree with what you've said as clearly the twins hold the power, but to call Rowan a helpless middleman whose only purpose is to be used and disposed of is inaccurate. He's given plenty of opportunities to operate on his own and the further we go into act one the more he's able to push his own agenda. The twins are the angry brutes screaming "don't fail me" as Rowan is given incredible leeway to fulfill his mission. He has way more agency in his decisions than the Bane comparison gives him credit for.
Certainly, Rowan has a chance if he play his cards right... But this is just Act I, and as far we concern, the only character near to be an ally is Nasim, because for now Helayna isn't in better shape, if we (the players) goes dumb to see NTR with Alexia then she would be lost as an ally for us (Rowan). And is very tentative those scenes u know ... Now with all that said, as far as Act I goes, everything that Rowan has done worked in benefit of the Twins, after save the ass of that Sexual Demon murderer i cannot trust him/her whatever because as far the story goes Rowan still don't get a benefit of that, the first time i played and finally conquer Rastedel to see what comes of that because of the Twins, i knew exactly how character John Daggett from TDKR must had felt in that scene lol.
Twins: Do you feel in charge?.
Rowan: I create for you an army, secure enough resources, forge alliances, conquer villages as Raeve Keep and the Half of Rastedel, put to work mines & breeding pits, resolve problems between your people and with the creatures you breed, diminish the faith in the Goddess, sacrifice Helayna, let you play with me and my wife when you have sexual needs...
Twins: And do you think that give you power over us?.
Okay, so i contacted developer and i got this totally official response form Lord Arioch:
It come to our attention that pirate community is torn apart on the subject of power dynamics in SoC game.
it pain us to see people can't put aside there differences and accept the truth!
To avoid further confusion here is official chart of power levels in SoC as it stands for Act 1.
That chart is all over the place and confusing. Am I the only one that went, "What?".
For instance, Rowan -- one of the greatest, most capable, and renowned heroes of the realms -- appears to be no better than a common soldier who shouldn't even be able to take down an old minotaur according to the chart. Huh?
Helayna is a masterful cook? Alexia can be thrown at the Orcs on the regular? When did those things happen? Did I miss something? I'm aware of only two scenes of Alexia with any Orc -- a BJ bar scene and a rape attempt made by another at Bloodmeen. I'll admit that I haven't encountered either from however long ago I last played the game though.
Who was Ameraine again? The vampire that Rowan can meet in Rastadel?
Red, Blue, the Mage, and X'Zaratl, okay, those ones makes sense.
Maybe define what power dynamics means here can make things clearer. Perhaps I'm simply interpreting things incorrectly.
Edit: Okay, so going in I had my doubts about the chart (due to the red flags but maybe it was just punched up quickly?) and about the whole LA angle since he works through intermediaries... However, considering how the dev team sometimes responds here with generous amounts of sarcasm while answering some questions combined with (admittedly) no small degree of naivete on my part and my willingness to trust Rivon, who wouldn't do such a thing as put that trust in doubt, I thought perhaps it was at least plausible and ran with it.
Even if it weren't painfully obvious from all the cringey character titles, sarcasm about the dev giving him the chart, and sloppy power level comparisons; an actual power dynamic chart would be spoilery and something I could never see LA giving to some random pirate or even see value in making in the first place.
If we assume that the chart is in fact from Lord Arioch, and not Rivons own meme (which I have my doubts)... its still a meme response. The entire response is written with a lack of seriousness. So I wouldn't take it too seriously regardless. Which is fine. Fans often take a piece of media far more seriously than its actual creators do. And when you look at it objectively, our 608 and counting pages of debates on here about the interpersonal dynamics of fictional characters in a porn game is pretty silly.
That said, lets get silly! Once again assuming this is in fact from Lord Arioch, even though this is a meme response that doesn't mean that there isn't truth within it as well. The first question is, is this a measure of the social and political hierarchy with in Bloodmeen or is a a measure of the individuals strength and power. I would argue the later because Rowan ostensibly outranks everyone but the twins. Sure you could argue that some of the character might be under him on paper but out rank him in real politics. And that may be true for characters like Cliohna and X'zaratl, but I don't think it is as true for characters like Greyhide or Ameraine, at least not to the degree this chart shows.
So that leaves us with a chart of the characters raw power. But Rowans position still seems odd because in the updated prologue he gives both the twins a run for their money when they attack his village, and with just 4-5 points invested in his combat skill he can reliably best Andras in a non-magical combat. The only way this chart could potentially still work is if this is truly just raw power. No skill, no strategy, no tricks, no maneuvering. Then I think it might work out about right, based on what we know of the characters.
I liken it to Batman . It is generally agreed among the comic book fandom that Batman can defeat any opponent IF given enough time to study the opponent and prepare for the conflict. But what constitutes enough time varies wildly depending on the opponent. It would take Batman an exponentially time longer to prepare for an opponent like Superman when compared to someone like Elongated Man. Rowan is quite possibly the weakest of the 6 heroes from a pure power standpoint. He's no slouch, but his real strength comes from strategy and subterfuge. I'm certain that given enough time he could get himself and Alexia out of this situation and stop the twins. But it is a very delicate situation and he is surrounded by people that with vastly more raw power than him. The question isn't really is he capable of stopping the twins and saving both himself and Alexia, it is will he be able to do it before it no longer matters because the twins managed to conquer the realms or either of them have been corrupted beyond saving.
Certainly, Rowan has a chance if he play his cards right... But this is just Act I, and as far we concern, the only character near to be an ally is Nasim, because for now Helayna isn't in better shape, if we (the players) goes dumb to see NTR with Alexia then she would be lost as an ally for us (Rowan). And is very tentative those scenes u know ... Now with all that said, as far as Act I goes, everything that Rowan has done worked in benefit of the Twins, after save the ass of that Sexual Demon murderer i cannot trust him/her whatever because as far the story goes Rowan still don't get a benefit of that, the first time i played and finally conquer Rastedel to see what comes of that because of the Twins, i knew exactly how character John Daggett from TDKR must had felt in that scene lol.
Twins: Do you feel in charge?.
Rowan: I create for you an army, secure enough resources, forge alliances, conquer villages as Raeve Keep and the Half of Rastedel, put to work mines & breeding pits, resolve problems between your people and with the creatures you breed, diminish the faith in the Goddess, sacrifice Helayna, let you play with me and my wife when you have sexual needs...
Twins: And do you think that give you power over us?.
It does give Rowan power over them... eventually. Whether they're aware of it or not the more they rely on Rowan to build their ability to conquer the world, the more he's able to work on his own agenda, the more capable he becomes of rebelling. If we're going to continue using Dark Knight Rises as a comparison point, Rowan is Batman. He has been knocked down, he has been beaten, he has been broken, but he has the skills, knowledge, and will to rise up, take whatever advantage he can, and eventually defeat the twins. You're quite literally comparing him to someone that can be gotten rid of at any time, and he is, but losing him would set the twins back years. Rowan is the difference between a relatively quick, straight forward, comparatively bloodless campaign to years of pitched wars that the twins would likely lose. If the odds weren't so stacked against him Rowan would be a Gary Stu since he's handsome, a skilled orator, a natural diplomat, a seasoned general and an extremely skilled warrior with an expertise in multiple forms of combat and has shown himself to be so skilled that in a proper fight Andras would stand as much a chance of losing as winning, oh, and he's got that good dick. You're selling Rowan far, far shorter than Seeds of Chaos presents him as.
A question to those that can help. Do you guys have a full save? though shameless of me, but I do play the game normally. If so are you able to provide? Just a question from a random person.
