Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.06] [Vénus Noire]

[Nym85]

Yeah, I think the only argument that holds for Rowan's actions from a selfless perspective would be that by being in service of the Twins he is reducing the overall casualties, in the sense that his good management reduces the overall suffering on both sides in conflicts that were ultimately unavoidable.

Of course that is a very narrow line between Rowan improving things by containing the damage and he actually just being complicit and enabling of the Twins' ambitions. I haven't played the game with the intro rewrites, but my understanding is that now the writing makes it clearer the Twins have a fully functional operation even without Rowan's involvement, which to me means that everything up to Rastedel's conquest would have still been attainable by the Twins even if Rowan had refused to help them, just significantly more bloody and messy, which makes it hard to gauge if Rowan's contributions were a "good" thing or not and remains to be seen based on its effects in the future.

I mean given that we see the Twins are actually incompetent and Andras would have self destructed the army and Jezera would have scared off all allies, I am not so sure.

 

[aykarin]

When I sat with Winter to discuss what exactly we need for Jezera content, he requested that it contains a degree of rivalry, hostility. Jezera is one of the two main antagonists, and since I’m a femdom fan, he expressed concern that I would turn Rowan into a bitch boi. I on the other hand highlighted how a majority of Jezera fans want to be a bitch boi for her. Like, Jezera’s plot is not for people who want Maledom, it’s for people who want to be dominated by a sexy, toxic, whimsical demon mistress.

Yeah, that's exactly why Jezera is my favorite character in this game

 

[manscout]

I mean given that we see the Twins are actually incompetent and Andras would have self destructed the army and Jezera would have scared off all allies, I am not so sure.

The Twins have character flaws that make them somewhat incompetent at some of their functions as rulers, but they also have their talents as well as pretty powerful magic. More importantly though is to keep in mind that their opposition so far has been just as incompetent as them, if not more.

I haven't played the game in a long while and I'm not familiar with all of the recent changes, also I forget some names so forgive me on that, but lets breakdown Rowan's contributions:

Taking Raeve's keep - that was just a test for Rowan, the Twins alone could have taken the keep if they wanted to but they wanted to see if Rowan was capable.

Creating a network of supporting villages and mines - they probably wouldn't have been able to do this as smoothly without Rowan, but the importance of those is more to create a supply network for the future, as of conquering Rastedel this asset has not been critical yet.

Recruiting the local orc army - Rowan was helpful in doing this, but realistically the leadership of the orc army was already unstable. Even in the scenario where Rowan frees Delane and doesn't make any alliances for the Twins, Tarish gets rid of the other 2 orc warlords and then makes an alliance with Andras to consolidate her own leadership. Maybe the timing of everything wouldn't have worked as perfectly without Rowan, but worst case scenario Andras just bashes enough heads until Tarish or another warlord is willing to bend the knee. Would have wasted some warriors but would have worked nonetheless.

Defeating the Rastedel army sent to check up on Raeve's keep - Probably Rowan's greatest contribution, he came up with the winning strategy and made sure the battle was won without word of it getting back to Rastedel. Twins could perhaps have won it without his assistance, but without as clean of a result and could have exposed the Bloodmeen army to the world.

Conquering Rastedel - Once again, while Rowan made perfect use of the situation to destabilize Rastedel, all of the pieces were already in play. The shapeshifter ally was already working for Jezera in there, tensions between the purples and the coppers were already near their boiling point, the relationship between the baron and the priestess already existed, etc. Again, without Rowan's assistance in defeating the army, maybe Rastedel hastily puts together more of an united front in face of the demons, but there would have still been a lot of instability and dissension among the ranks. Without Rowan the demons don't get Rastedel delivered to them in a silver plate, but I think they could have still won it even if they had to fight for it.

Now make no mistake, Rowan's contributions put the demons in a MUCH stronger position by the end of act 1 than they would have been without him. But even if they would have been much more bloodied and in all likelyhood their aspirations of world domination would go no further than Rastedel, I do think they would have still managed to accomplish all of their act 1 goals, just in a much more messy fashion, for better and worse. In that sense I think Rowan can still justify his actions in act 1 as being the "least damaging" course of action, but smoothening things too much might be slowly turning the Twins into too big of a snowball, and if he can't oppose their sadistic whims going into act 2, then he will have created a much bigger evil than the ones he sought to avert.

 

[Nightguy1]

The Twins have character flaws that make them somewhat incompetent at some of their functions as rulers, but they also have their talents as well as pretty powerful magic. More importantly though is to keep in mind that their opposition so far has been just as incompetent as them, if not more.

I haven't played the game in a long while and I'm not familiar with all of the recent changes, also I forget some names so forgive me on that, but lets breakdown Rowan's contributions:

Taking Raeve's keep - that was just a test for Rowan, the Twins alone could have taken the keep if they wanted to but they wanted to see if Rowan was capable.

Creating a network of supporting villages and mines - they probably wouldn't have been able to do this as smoothly without Rowan, but the importance of those is more to create a supply network for the future, as of conquering Rastedel this asset has not been critical yet.

Recruiting the local orc army - Rowan was helpful in doing this, but realistically the leadership of the orc army was already unstable. Even in the scenario where Rowan frees Delane and doesn't make any alliances for the Twins, Tarish gets rid of the other 2 orc warlords and then makes an alliance with Andras to consolidate her own leadership. Maybe the timing of everything wouldn't have worked as perfectly without Rowan, but worst case scenario Andras just bashes enough heads until Tarish or another warlord is willing to bend the knee. Would have wasted some warriors but would have worked nonetheless.

Defeating the Rastedel army sent to check up on Raeve's keep - Probably Rowan's greatest contribution, he came up with the winning strategy and made sure the battle was won without word of it getting back to Rastedel. Twins could perhaps have won it without his assistance, but without as clean of a result and could have exposed the Bloodmeen army to the world.

Conquering Rastedel - Once again, while Rowan made perfect use of the situation to destabilize Rastedel, all of the pieces were already in play. The shapeshifter ally was already working for Jezera in there, tensions between the purples and the coppers were already near their boiling point, the relationship between the baron and the priestess already existed, etc. Again, without Rowan's assistance in defeating the army, maybe Rastedel hastily puts together more of an united front in face of the demons, but there would have still been a lot of instability and dissension among the ranks. Without Rowan the demons don't get Rastedel delivered to them in a silver plate, but I think they could have still won it even if they had to fight for it.

Now make no mistake, Rowan's contributions put the demons in a MUCH stronger position by the end of act 1 than they would have been without him. But even if they would have been much more bloodied and in all likelyhood their aspirations of world domination would go no further than Rastedel, I do think they would have still managed to accomplish all of their act 1 goals, just in a much more messy fashion, for better and worse. In that sense I think Rowan can still justify his actions in act 1 as being the "least damaging" course of action, but smoothening things too much might be slowly turning the Twins into too big of a snowball, and if he can't oppose their sadistic whims going into act 2, then he will have created a much bigger evil than the ones he sought to avert.

You give the twins way too much credit im pretty sure kharos there dad demon king was not able to sack any human city in his reign and he had a way bigger army and was more powerful the twins are not good rulers and without rowan would be in a ditch somewhere long before making it to Rastadel.The astarte battle is a good ditch I think.

 

[T51bwinterized]

I think on some level, this internal debate is actually what rowan is feeling at the end of the rastedel quest. Would it have happened had he not made the choices that he made? Would it have happened anyway but with even more civilian death?

In real life, you don't have the ability to replay your actions and see which set of actions would have worked out differently. Even to the extent you have that in a videogame, it's only within a limited parameter. That uncertainty is a an interesting emotional space for a charachter to inhabit.

 

[monk_56]

The Twins have character flaws that make them somewhat incompetent at some of their functions as rulers, but they also have their talents as well as pretty powerful magic. More importantly though is to keep in mind that their opposition so far has been just as incompetent as them, if not more.

I haven't played the game in a long while and I'm not familiar with all of the recent changes, also I forget some names so forgive me on that, but lets breakdown Rowan's contributions:

Taking Raeve's keep - that was just a test for Rowan, the Twins alone could have taken the keep if they wanted to but they wanted to see if Rowan was capable.

Creating a network of supporting villages and mines - they probably wouldn't have been able to do this as smoothly without Rowan, but the importance of those is more to create a supply network for the future, as of conquering Rastedel this asset has not been critical yet.

Recruiting the local orc army - Rowan was helpful in doing this, but realistically the leadership of the orc army was already unstable. Even in the scenario where Rowan frees Delane and doesn't make any alliances for the Twins, Tarish gets rid of the other 2 orc warlords and then makes an alliance with Andras to consolidate her own leadership. Maybe the timing of everything wouldn't have worked as perfectly without Rowan, but worst case scenario Andras just bashes enough heads until Tarish or another warlord is willing to bend the knee. Would have wasted some warriors but would have worked nonetheless.

Defeating the Rastedel army sent to check up on Raeve's keep - Probably Rowan's greatest contribution, he came up with the winning strategy and made sure the battle was won without word of it getting back to Rastedel. Twins could perhaps have won it without his assistance, but without as clean of a result and could have exposed the Bloodmeen army to the world.

Conquering Rastedel - Once again, while Rowan made perfect use of the situation to destabilize Rastedel, all of the pieces were already in play. The shapeshifter ally was already working for Jezera in there, tensions between the purples and the coppers were already near their boiling point, the relationship between the baron and the priestess already existed, etc. Again, without Rowan's assistance in defeating the army, maybe Rastedel hastily puts together more of an united front in face of the demons, but there would have still been a lot of instability and dissension among the ranks. Without Rowan the demons don't get Rastedel delivered to them in a silver plate, but I think they could have still won it even if they had to fight for it.

Now make no mistake, Rowan's contributions put the demons in a MUCH stronger position by the end of act 1 than they would have been without him. But even if they would have been much more bloodied and in all likelyhood their aspirations of world domination would go no further than Rastedel, I do think they would have still managed to accomplish all of their act 1 goals, just in a much more messy fashion, for better and worse. In that sense I think Rowan can still justify his actions in act 1 as being the "least damaging" course of action, but smoothening things too much might be slowly turning the Twins into too big of a snowball, and if he can't oppose their sadistic whims going into act 2, then he will have created a much bigger evil than the ones he sought to avert.

Good general analysis that covers the highlights.

Wanted to add there are a myriad aggregate of minor actions that don't get mentioned in the narrative, are gamey, or seem tiny on their own related to Stewardship. The Twins in particular are poorly suited to the diligent attention span and work ethic required to cultivate a kingdom

You hear a lot of different opinions about if people think Rowan comes off as a trickster, heroic, intelligent ect. But I'd think about anyone who plays the game would readily admit the guy is god-like at kingdom-building.

He chose the research trajectory, managed the resources, decided what developments to make ect. Delegated tasks, directed workflow, and all the sort of bullshit required to keep the cogs of war turning. Not much of it was glamorous; but that sort of power is critical

I'm actually kinda amazed he has to go begging Jezera for things like magical items ect- when he basically has oversight over the entire means of production / economy at the castle now that I think of it.

Anyway, the Twins ability to accomplish anything in this vector relates pretty linearly with the quality of the people who they can extort / hire / bribe. So the real question seems to be would they have been able to find a suitable replacement / replacements who could have done *All* of those major things you mentioned AND this huge aggregate of small things that honestly probably carried more weight than the major contributions.

 

[Rome5555555]

Yes, the graphics in the game are very beautiful..

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Good general analysis that covers the highlights.

Wanted to add there are a myriad aggregate of minor actions that don't get mentioned in the narrative, are gamey, or seem tiny on their own related to Stewardship. The Twins in particular are poorly suited to the diligent attention span and work ethic required to cultivate a kingdom

You hear a lot of different opinions about if people think Rowan comes off as a trickster, heroic, intelligent ect. But I'd think about anyone who plays the game would readily admit the guy is god-like at kingdom-building.

He chose the research trajectory, managed the resources, decided what developments to make ect. Delegated tasks, directed workflow, and all the sort of bullshit required to keep the cogs of war turning. Not much of it was glamorous; but that sort of power is critical

I'm actually kinda amazed he has to go begging Jezera for things like magical items ect- when he basically has oversight over the entire means of production / economy at the castle now that I think of it.

Anyway, the Twins ability to accomplish anything in this vector relates pretty linearly with the quality of the people who they can extort / hire / bribe. So the real question seems to be would they have been able to find a suitable replacement / replacements who could have done *All* of those major things you mentioned AND this huge aggregate of small things that honestly probably carried more weight than the major contributions.

I don't share entirely, the reason is because still you can perfectly have a game over two times if you can't achieve the main goals dictated to you by The Twins... So, as Rowan can fail he can't be by any reason "god-like at kingdom-building", this is the ilusion the SoC Team made to make you fall, you think like that not because of Rowan but yourself, what the SoC Team did was making an initial story were there are a lot of frustrating choices to make, this can make you immerse more in the character and gain sympathy for him because you feel in control, but you must think out of the box.

Remember how Rowan just passed to enter to Bloodmeen in search for his wife, how careless and negligent was knowing being a tactician, a General who's role during the War play importance in the defeating of Karnas. This is an insight of who truly Rowan really is, the same happened during Rastedel's Fall, no matter what, there are more than enough events that could be prevented if Rowan could had a Plan or at least if we as players could take more of the decisions before and during this falling, Rastedel is an example of things that not only escape to Rowan control but for players control, because at that very same peak moment we are more attached to the character and it is orchestrated by the SoC Team to make you more a reader than a player, so things get out of hands pretty quickly.

And i have the feeling that could be more of that very same sentiment in the next Arcs, and it will be like that because of the choices taken before, and the things left behind without attention. Besides, even if Rowan (us) take the best decisions to Bloodmeen Castle perform better, this couldn't be possible without the chief in each area assigned by The Twins, Rowan by any chance hadn't to deal to who inside The Castle will be in charge of an area in particular, so, as there isn't an example of competition or competitors to choose who's better for the task, those ppl who work in helping Rowan to achieve his goals in all the Castle areas were chosen by The Twins for their excellency, as ppl capable to do in time the task Rowan need or more we can say, The Twins need, because as i said, Rowan (you) can fail their goals and it's only Rowan (you) who pay the consequences (take note on that) because, Rowan in any moment never question if someone else can perform better than Skordred or Clhiona, much less if are created Divided Teams for Construction, Researched and whatever areas to compare the same work and give the most simple to the less capable team to achieve quickly...

In resume, i still think Rowan don't know shit... Change my mind :v.

 

[Rivina]

Change my mind :v.

No, not my job.

 

[G3RWANT]

is there any normal guide for this game because the one that is added only describes what scenes and not how to go through the game

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

is there any normal guide for this game because the one that is added only describes what scenes and not how to go through the game

Well... There is a General Guide for the game that works as a Walkthrough, it was made by the fan community of this game, it's a bit outdated but it was never put into a comprehensive file of WTF you need to do to not shit main goals, i did it for my own use, i share to to you, don't forget to thanks to those who spend time doing those analysis.

 

[CRAZY X WIZARD]

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[knok2]

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How I wish Alexia would do that instead..

 

[CRAZY X WIZARD]

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[Rein]

Go away Crazy X wizard. You already pirate the god damn game, at leave have the decency to leave premium posts for people who keep the project alive.

 

[perles75]

Go away Crazy X wizard. You already pirate the god damn game, at leave have the decency to leave premium posts for people who keep the project alive.

This.

Although I have a question... who's lord Heywood? '

 

[CRAZY X WIZARD]

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[aykarin]

Although I have a question... who's lord Heywood? '

He is an NPC you can meet as part of a one-time map event. You either have sex with him or with his wife (her scene got 2 CGs some time ago).

 

[Chefbozo]

I love this game; I just imagine if the devs made a female protagonist game only or had an option of it in this game to only play alexia. It would be legendary.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

That is not even close to be a viable option.