Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.06] [Vénus Noire]

[ffive]

but i just know her real role in game and not delusional like some guys here.

Alexia's "real role" is, just like Rowan's, to participate in whatever story the player wants to have. People who want a story with NTR can have it. People who want a story with consensual sharing can have it. People who want a story of a faithful pair keeping it together in face of adversity can also have it. It's why you're given a choice instead of things just happening in fixed manner.

(well, i guess people who want a rape story can't have it, so it might make them rant about delusional snowflakes. Oh well)

 

[manscout]

I'm waiting until the conclusion of the goblin arc to do a big replay of the game so things might have changed and my knowledge of the game is simply outdated, but I get where Big Green is coming from. The game still operates as a porn game meant to sexually satisfy the player first, occasionally prioritizing that over a 100% cohesive storyline. Despite the dark story and extremely imoral characters, there's little or no depiction of absolutely non-consensual sex acts without the player directly supporting it through their choices (yeah there are like over a dozen scenes where characters didn't want to do it but, even if not necessary, the villains always mindwash/mindbreak them into wanting it before the scene goes forward).

As for the NTR thing, I'm sorry but I have to agree that, at least back when I played, Alexia's plot and narrative were pretty much barebones without it. I was always confused when people referred to her as a "second protagonist" or a "deuteragonist" when a lot of her events went more or less like this: "Alexia thought about doing something, but then she realized that to go forward with it, she would have to come within the general vicinity of the Twins or some other overtly sleezy character. So instead, she chose to go back to her bedroom and sit on her thumbs for the rest of the week".

The storyline of Alexia or Rowan not cheating on each other was underdeveloped when compared to the alternative, which is understandable since porn game, but that's part of the reason why I have been wanting them to settle on some kind of open-relationship arrangement since forever so they can do more in the story without it being cheating on each other (mainly why I'm excited to check out X's and Greyhide's reworked content when I get to replay).

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

To me it make perfect sense why Andras isn't just raping Alexia whenever he feels like. As mentioned she's just some farm girl. There are a million of them out there that he can fuck when ever he wants. She isn't what either twin actually wants, she is just a means to an end and that end is Rowan's servitude.

However Rowan's service is contingent on Alexia remaining unharmed. If your just going to rape her regardless of his actions, there is no reason for him to keep working for you. They need to be able to hold that threat over him to ensure his compliance.

That said, knowing that they can't have her actually makes them want her all the more (and in Andras' case he likely also wants to prove that he is the most alpha, because he is clearly has daddy issues). They can't just take her, because she would just tell Rowan what happened and everything falls apart. But if they were able to seduce her or otherwise make it seem like it was her own choice...well then they could have her and she would be incentivized to keep her infidelity secret from Rowan, the best of both worlds.

Of the two, Andras is by far the most blunt in his attempts. He regularly implies that there will be consequences for Rowan if she refuses him, or lets her know that he could just take her if he wanted so she might as well just give in.

But when push comes to shove, whenever sh sticks to her guns ans says no regardless of any threats, Andras always backs down. Not because he secretly has a consent kink or anything. But in the end, some random farm girl pussy isn't worth blowing up all their plans for.

 

[Big Green]

Btw on a side note: does fae plot requires a good Rowan playthrough?

 

[Rein]

Despite the dark story and extremely imoral characters, there's little or no depiction of absolutely non-consensual sex acts without the player directly supporting it through their choices

SoC does not have rape, will not have rape, and does not need rape. You can write a dark story with corruption elements without noncensual content.

That's how it is, and it will not change.

Btw on a side note: does fae plot requires a good Rowan playthrough?

It does not. It's open to all Rowans.

In fact, certain elements of the plotline directly support Evil, Dom Rowan. More to come.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

SoC does not have rape, will not have rape, and does not need rape. You can write a dark story with corruption elements without noncensual content.

Offer only valid for specific definitions of rape.

In all serious though while the game doesn't explicitly include successful rape by force, i does include both drugging and mind altering magic in order to impair the ability to consent, as well as coersion and threats of violence to encourage compliance. Depending on the jurisdiction, those can count as rape.

 

[Big Green]

SoC does not have rape, will not have rape, and does not need rape. You can write a dark story with corruption elements without noncensual content.

That's how it is, and it will not change.

What do you call it then, when orcs capture and breed women? Spreading love?

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

To me it make perfect sense why Andras isn't just raping Alexia whenever he feels like. As mentioned she's just some farm girl. There are a million of them out there that he can fuck when ever he wants. She isn't what either twin actually wants, she is just a means to an end and that end is Rowan's servitude.

However Rowan's service is contingent on Alexia remaining unharmed. If your just going to rape her regardless of his actions, there is no reason for him to keep working for you. They need to be able to hold that threat over him to ensure his compliance.

That said, knowing that they can't have her actually makes them want her all the more (and in Andras' case he likely also wants to prove that he is the most alpha, because he is clearly has daddy issues). They can't just take her, because she would just tell Rowan what happened and everything falls apart. But if they were able to seduce her or otherwise make it seem like it was her own choice...well then they could have her and she would be incentivized to keep her infidelity secret from Rowan, the best of both worlds.

Of the two, Andras is by far the most blunt in his attempts. He regularly implies that there will be consequences for Rowan if she refuses him, or lets her know that he could just take her if he wanted so she might as well just give in.
View attachment 2344027
But when push comes to shove, whenever sh sticks to her guns ans says no regardless of any threats, Andras always backs down. Not because he secretly has a consent kink or anything. But in the end, some random farm girl pussy isn't worth blowing up all their plans for.

But only that can't explain why would be the reasons for a mere human without too much knowledge or education less devotion to a some kind of "Lawful Good" Divinity to be rightful and pure in a place were degrading and corrupting acts are near in every corner, just doesn't make sense... Moreover, you are talking of Andras provocations to alexia not the entire Bloodmeen over Alexia... Even the nuns in the random events in the very same fucking churches can't avoid been corrupted, how would Alexia stand a chance?... Being pure and saint in Bloodmeen, as i said is like the cristal snowflake kid who doesn't step against his bullies and just wait for adult response... Good Luck with that...

 

[ffive]

But only that can't explain why would be the reasons for a mere human without too much knowledge or education less devotion to a some kind of "Lawful Good" Divinity to be rightful and pure in a place were degrading and corrupting acts are near in every corner, just doesn't make sense...

You don't need devotion or education to simply not want demon cock in your orifice, especially if you happen to despise that person. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Even the nuns in the random events in the very same fucking churches can't avoid been corrupted, how would Alexia stand a chance?

Nuns are easy prey for demons because they have limited if any experience with sex, so any sort of contact is a big deal they don't know how to handle. In contrast this isn't Alexia's first rodeo.

 

[manscout]

But when push comes to shove, whenever sh sticks to her guns ans says no regardless of any threats, Andras always backs down. Not because he secretly has a consent kink or anything. But in the end, some random farm girl pussy isn't worth blowing up all their plans for.

The issue is that Andras was often depicted as the polar opposite of self-controled, calculating, and rational. Guy often makes the absolute brashest and most impulsive decisions just to paint himself as some kind of "big man" (daddy issues like you said). And obviously a lot of his insecurities are targetted at Rowan, the guy who was involved with killing his dad. In Andras' mind humiliating Rowan is simultaneously a way of protecting his own ego (as in, avenging his father) but also asserting himself as "bigger" than his old man (overcoming Rowan is a way of indirectly overcoming his own father).

Andras' initial interest on Alexia is much more about getting one over Rowan than any direct interest in Alexia herself, and everything about his character seems to indicate he would have no moral qualms with lack of consent. Now, yes, Andras and Jezera absolutely need Alexia relatively unharmed to keep Rowan under their heels, but the fact that Andras never falters or slips on his duty of not harming Alexia is what feels a bit out of character considering his impulsive and violent tendencies. I do agree rape would be going too far, but I feel like he takes Alexia's rejection (which is essentially a denial to his thirst for revenge against Rowan) way too well given how the rest of his character is established. Story-wise I think it would make sense for him to demean, molest, and/or grope Alexia when she rejects him, specially once it becomes clear his attempts at seduction are not going to pan out.

SoC does not have rape, will not have rape, and does not need rape. You can write a dark story with corruption elements without noncensual content.

That's how it is, and it will not change.

I just want to preface that I'm not asking the game to change on that rule. If you don't want to explicitly depict rape on your story then power to you (but with the overwhelming amount of otherwise brutal and extremely dubious consent nature of so many scenes in the game, it comes across like the strict cut around direct rape is more a matter of optics/censorship than any kind of moral stance by the developers, even if the intention was genuine).

The issue is only that if you're gonna make an adult game with a heavy focus on sexual content and strongly imoral themes, omitting/censoring rape as a story-element leaves a narrative gap. It is not an unworkable problem and you can absolutely craft a great story while skirting around it, but it takes careful work to make it so the absence of rape or other forms of non-concensual content doesn't stick out.

I'm sure eventually you can write some piece of backstory content that will explain why Andras might be secretly against rape even if he threatens it (something something his mom was raped by his father and he witnessed it and was traumatized by it/he believes a "real" man wins by getting a woman without resorting to rape) or whatever other explanation for why he is a massive bastard except in this one thing. But until then it will just feel a bit out of place with the rest of the game's universe.

Also Rein weren't you the one bragging a couple pages back about how you were the one who came up with the Delane content at the end of Werden's route? About how there "had to be consequences" for the player disobeying the twins and trying to be good? Feels a bit funny for you to go from that to "oh Alexia honey, all you have to do is just say 'no' to unwanted sexual advances, nothing bad will happen from that "

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

You don't need devotion or education to simply not want demon cock in your orifice, especially if you happen to despise that person. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Oh yeah... Don't forget two things, one she is there for "x" months before Rowan's entering Bloodmeen and after all... both (Rowan and Alexia) have been in Bloodmeen over the course of a year... Enough time to develop Stockholm Syndrome. Have a nice day.

 

[ffive]

Oh yeah... Don't forget two things, one she is there for "x" months before Rowan's entering Bloodmeen and after all... both (Rowan and Alexia) have been in Bloodmeen over the course of a year... Enough time to develop Stockholm Syndrome. Have a nice day.

You know Stockholm Syndrome is made up thing that doesn't really exist, and even presuming for the sake of argument that it does, it requires crucial component that is both the hostage and the terrorist to have common, external threat/enemy to bond over... i.e. something which does not exist here? Have a nice day indeed.

 

[ffive]

Also Rein weren't you the one bragging a couple pages back about how you were the one who came up with the Delane content at the end of Werden's route? About how there "had to be consequences" for the player disobeying the twins and trying to be good? Feels a bit funny for you to go from that to "oh Alexia honey, all you have to do is just say 'no' to unwanted sexual advances, nothing bad will happen from that "

Delane is a side character the twins (and writers) can punish with impunity. She's not Alexia who is the sole reason Rowan is doing their bidding rather than show them middle finger.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

SoC does not have rape, will not have rape, and does not need rape.

Ehm, exactly what?

Soooo, like Orcaid content, Helayna content, that scene with dryad...

Or was it a joke and I've just lost my sense of humor?

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

What do you call it then, when orcs capture and breed women? Spreading love?

Gene-splicing.

 

[manscout]

Delane is a side character the twins (and writers) can punish with impunity. She's not Alexia who is the sole reason Rowan is doing their bidding rather than show them middle finger.

It is really not an all or nothing thing. Would Andras doing something like pushing Alexia up against a wall and groping her against her consent really be the breaking point where Rowan goes like "yeah you have gone too far, now me and Alexia will commit to a suicide pact"? Or do you think that's what would finally make Rowan stop trusting the Twins from taking things farther than what they had agreed to, when they often break their word with him on several other matters and could still threaten to do much worse things to both him and Alexia?

And again, the issue isn't that what you're saying isn't rational, but that you're attributing it as a strong enough motive for Andras to finally become a mostly reasonable actor, when he is often the opposite just to flex.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

I just want to preface that I'm not asking the game to change on that rule. If you don't want to explicitly depict rape on your story then power to you (but with the overwhelming amount of otherwise brutal and extremely dubious consent nature of so many scenes in the game, it comes across like the strict cut around direct rape is more a matter of optics/censorship than any kind of moral stance by the developers, even if the intention was genuine).

The issue is only that if you're gonna make an adult game with a heavy focus on sexual content and strongly imoral themes, omitting/censoring rape as a story-element leaves a narrative gap. It is not an unworkable problem and you can absolutely craft a great story while skirting around it, but it takes careful work to make it so the absence of rape or other forms of non-concensual content doesn't stick out.

I'm sure eventually you can write some piece of backstory content that will explain why Andras might be secretly against rape even if he threatens it (something something his mom was raped by his father and he witnessed it and was traumatized by it/he believes a "real" man wins by getting a woman without resorting to rape) or whatever other explanation for why he is a massive bastard except in this one thing. But until then it will just feel a bit out of place with the rest of the game's universe.

Also Rein weren't you the one bragging a couple pages back about how you were the one who came up with the Delane content at the end of Werden's route? About how there "had to be consequences" for the player disobeying the twins and trying to be good? Feels a bit funny for you to go from that to "oh Alexia honey, all you have to do is just say 'no' to unwanted sexual advances, nothing bad will happen from that "

Ehm, exactly what?
View attachment 2344380
Soooo, like Orcaid content, Helayna content, that scene with dryad...

Or was it a joke and I've just lost my sense of humor?

I'm pretty sure it is mostly a legal statement for the purposes of publicly stating that they are complying with Patreon's terms of service.

 

[Big Green]

Ehm, exactly what?
View attachment 2344380
Soooo, like Orcaid content, Helayna content, that scene with dryad...

Or was it a joke and I've just lost my sense of humor?

Just one word: Patreon

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Just one word: Patreon

Oh hecking heck! I should've guessed! That thing strikes again! Censorship!

A damn rabbit whole of pros and cons that no one really sure about. Like paperwork! Can't go without it, can't have fun with it!

 

[ffive]

It is really not an all or nothing thing. Would Andras doing something like pushing Alexia up against a wall and groping her against her consent really be the breaking point where Rowan goes like "yeah you have gone too far, now me and Alexia will commit to a suicide pact"?

It might. The thing is, the twins don't know that and it's not really worth it to check that. It's a game of chicken and the twins would rather swerve than risk it for what's ultimately just one pussy out of millions, attached to not even all that attractive woman in late 30s. You don't even need to be all that rational to make the correct choice in such situation.