Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]

[BigStuffedTiger]

I would be happy to see a dominant path for Alexia where she stands up to the twins instead of either trying to avoid them or rolling over and becoming a sub to one of them.

 

[lifegetsweird]

The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".

Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here. At this point (imo) the story sort of screams for Alexia to start openly changing for Andras, i.e. for her to either start wearing the revealing dress in all situations, or to magically grow her breasts, or to pierce her nipples, etc. but I understand this would duplicate the art workload for scenes involving her and thus is probably a big no-no. What are your thoughts on that? I really, really like this path, I think you've done an awesome job with it, but from the outside looking in I wonder if it can really reach a satisfying conclusion.

 

[Rivina]

Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here.

You're absolutely right. To give the game room to grow, all Alexia/Andras content should be moved to Act 3. Nods sagely.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here. At this point (imo) the story sort of screams for Alexia to start openly changing for Andras, i.e. for her to either start wearing the revealing dress in all situations, or to magically grow her breasts, or to pierce her nipples, etc. but I understand this would duplicate the art workload for scenes involving her and thus is probably a big no-no. What are your thoughts on that? I really, really like this path, I think you've done an awesome job with it, but from the outside looking in I wonder if it can really reach a satisfying conclusion.

At some point, the game is just going to have to develop a "Alexia is Wife" vs "Alexia isn't wife" variable. Then, most of the scenes with her can be designed around her being present or not present.

Once you have such a variable, then it's a lot easier to pick and choose what scenes Alexia is in, so that we have more room for divergences. Alexia x Andras can become a sub-variable of Not Wife, meaning we only have to account for it in not-wife allowing scenes.

By the same token, it would gate Alexia out of generic sex scenes, but allow wider divergences in sexual content.

But, such a thing is impossible in act 1, because we have too many random or one-off scenes featuring her, especially at her job events.

For the record: This isn't an ironclad plan or anything. It's merely the type of solution we're looking at to get around multi-state wankery.

 

[KingHota20037]

someone with full save?

 

[kekedouloveme23]

Has the Extended Scene Replay Mod been updated for this version (3.06)?

 

[Rayza12]

Has the Extended Scene Replay Mod been updated for this version (3.06)?

nope,still 3.04

just waiting for new update... :'

 

[unrivaIIed]

what do each of the options when interacting with a village do? e.g. their benefits/repercussions.
(occupying, destroying, trading, infiltrating)

 

[CainKova]

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me?

 

[rivon]

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me?

Ofcurse good sir! Let me explain this unfortunate situation to you.
You see any NTR protection in SoC world is not 100% foolproof. There is always a chance that your wife may or may not cheat on you even if you dont catch her do so!
Just pretend you didn't see anything!

 

[T51bwinterized]

It's almost certainly a mistaken label somewhere. We'll sort it out before next update.

 

[iainmore]

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me? View attachment 1896077

Use her to distract and subvert Andras.

 

[johlem]

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me?

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me? View attachment 1896077

in the worst case, if it's not obvious enough for you, you can just choose "she had absolutely not interest in him" (I never understood why there was the choice to deactivate the ntr while the choices for avoiding it couldn't be more obvious)

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me? View attachment 1896077

in the worst case, if it's not obvious enough for you, you can just choose "she had absolutely not interest in him" (I never understood why there was the choice to deactivate the ntr while the choices for avoiding it couldn't be more obvious)

 

[_The_Doctor_]

in the worst case, if it's not obvious enough for you, you can just choose "she had absolutely not interest in him" (I never understood why there was the choice to deactivate the ntr while the choices for avoiding it couldn't be more obvious)

Not really. If you give him the green light to choose whatever he want (by the ntr off button) don't expect him to take further caution down the road. That's a mistake on the dev side.

 

[rivon]

in the worst case, if it's not obvious enough for you, you can just choose "she had absolutely not interest in him" (I never understood why there was the choice to deactivate the ntr while the choices for avoiding it couldn't be more obvious)

Never underestimate the power of Dark Side the insecurity of simps being bullied by narrative choices they don't like.
Help im being assaulted by narrative choices!

 

[sin(α)]

I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me?

There is no NTR following the first choice. It just sets alexiaNTRIntroScene variable to True, which is needed for alexiaNTRReunion scene, but if you have NTR turned off you won't get it anyway. And there's even no real NTR in alexiaNTRReunion scene, it only differs from alexiaLoyalReunion scene by a bit different dialogue.

e: (At least that was the case in 0.3.05, but i don't believe that they changed it in 0.3.06)

 

[Radicallity]

There is no NTR following the first choice. It just sets alexiaNTRIntroScene variable to True, which is needed for alexiaNTRReunion scene, but if you have NTR turned off you won't get it anyway. And there's even no real NTR in alexiaNTRReunion scene, it only differs from alexiaLoyalReunion scene by a bit different dialogue.

e: (At least that was the case in 0.3.05, but i don't believe that they changed it in 0.3.06)

Nothing's changed between the two And I doubt it will change much for the rest of the dev period.

 

[nunyabidniz]

Is the Blackholt questioned busted? I've run all over that area and I can't get the war with zii, the backstabbed hag, or the search for the assassin to pop. Granted search for the assassin is back in Blackholt proper.

Also, how do I get to the other side of the river? I can't ever leave through the south east gate. Always south west.

 

[AVeryDarkLord]

At some point, the game is just going to have to develop a "Alexia is Wife" vs "Alexia isn't wife" variable. Then, most of the scenes with her can be designed around her being present or not present.

Once you have such a variable, then it's a lot easier to pick and choose what scenes Alexia is in, so that we have more room for divergences. Alexia x Andras can become a sub-variable of Not Wife, meaning we only have to account for it in not-wife allowing scenes.

By the same token, it would gate Alexia out of generic sex scenes, but allow wider divergences in sexual content.

But, such a thing is impossible in act 1, because we have too many random or one-off scenes featuring her, especially at her job events.

For the record: This isn't an ironclad plan or anything. It's merely the type of solution we're looking at to get around multi-state wankery.

I'm also primarily interested in the Alexia/Andras path, but I'm concerned: does this mean if you continued down the path Alexia would stop being Rowan's wife? I admit that the path would lose a lot of its interest for me there. I think it would turn Alexia into not much more than one of Andras' many sex slaves with nothing to make her stand out from the crowd.

I'm a bit disappointed that Alexia's path for both twins, but especially Andras, has been just that of sex slave. I saw someone earlier complain about this for Jazera but I think it's also true of the Andras path. Alexia just submits way too quickly. I liked the original opening more when she had sex with him out of being tricked and then hated him but was aroused by him nevertheless and was slowly being seduced by him. Once she had sex with him it's like there was a missing scene where she just agrees to become Andras's sex slave. Even at the end of the box event she's more demanding than a slave would be and the hint at the end that Andras still needs to do some work seducing her (but that she would be back) was titillating, but this jumped straight into Alexia being a sex slave. I wouldn't mind this as a path but I think a slower corruption of Alexia into cheating whore would be hot.

I also really enjoyed the hints from Rowan's perspective that something might be going on between his wife and Andras. That was half the appeal but those have petered off. The idea that Alexia could freely go to Andras's room if they're living apart and he can never visit her room or even her floor, so he would never know if she had done anything with Andras except by castle rumor, was erotic as hell. I'd love to see more of it or even a Rowan investigation subplot, which could lead in a number of directions.

I realize this is work and NTR isn't the most popular but this is one of the few games that really scratches that itch and I'd be one of the happy minority to see a more complex story in that area. I have my own tastes but having more options than just a choice between Andras or Jazera for NTR (like whether she becomes a sex slave or something more (or less!!)) would be really nice. Rowan's reaction would also be good, because NTR is about all the relationships and characters involved including the cuckolded husband. Being able to choose how Rowan reacts to this to help decide the eventual outcome would be nice.

Obviously that's really complicated since that's two to six Rowan NTR states combined with two to six Alexia/Andras states, just for an NTR subplot that a lot of people dislike, but I'd love to see it.

Perhaps it'd be possible to just track all of those with a combination of variables (e.g. a cuckold stat for Rowan to track how much he likes or hates it) and events and the final outcome are decided by the combination of stats. I don't know if that would save more work than having saved states that combine with each other. Broad categories (two or three different versions of a scene in terms of CGs but minor variation in dialogue and outcome) combined with said stats might also work. Just spitballing because I'd really like to see a more comprehensive NTR subplot than just whether Alexia becomes a sex slave to which twin.

 

[_The_Doctor_]

I'm starting to think the anti NTR crowd doesn't hate the genre for existing, but because of the type of people it attracts to the community.