Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]

[manscout]

I vaguely recall some dialogue in the script for the Rastedel part that had situational content in case Helayna had recovered (I think she was able to carry herself as a knight again and was Rowan's bodyguard or something like that). Haven't played the game in forever so not sure if her recovery arc has had any progress for act 1.

Currently in my "good guy" run I preferred to help her escape, felt like she was kind of already recovering and with enough support she'd be able to survive and maybe even thrive on her own. It does however feel like that if you help her escape she will probably be written off the game, otherwise I feel that an escaped Helayna and a "stayed but recovered" Helayna would overlap thematically, since if the later was able to recover completely then the only reason to choose to help her escape instead of keeping her would be out of loyalty to Alexia rather than for Helayna's own well being.

 

[ffive]

<snip repeating yourself>

Am sorry, but making the font bigger doesn't make whatever point you think you're trying to make any clearer. The examples you've provided of how "she can be more in Act II & III" all require her to be still in the castle during these acts. Which is not going to be the case for players who have helped her escape in Act I when she asked them to.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Am sorry, but making the font bigger doesn't make whatever point you think you're trying to make any clearer. The examples you've provided of how "she can be more in Act II & III" all require her to be still in the castle during these acts. Which is not going to be the case for players who have helped her escape in Act I when she asked them to.

Pal... In Act II whatever she's doing, she would be recovered fully or at most and, as a noblewoman knighted, she could run or be participant against a battle in which Rowan and Bloodmeen army is... Encounter her again in the future isn't impossible, the character after choosing being freed as far as i played and remember she isn't mention anymore, we doesn't know what's her business since then, so if you didn't pick her in Act I, it can be for Act II, with Rowan claiming her and maintaining her at his side this time because she can be of value for his future plans. But in Act I, if she's with Rowan and we choose to recover her, then there isn't make sense to have her still naked without making a word from her mouth... The reason i put the font bigger is because it makes me think that you didn't read my post entirely.

 

[ffive]

But in Act I, if she's with Rowan and we choose to recover her, then there isn't make sense to have her still naked without making a word from her mouth...

IIRC in the current version of the game after she recovers her wits she speaks quite coherently. She's just still interested mostly in sucking Rowan's dick, but purely because she's now in love with him if the player declares they have feelings for her and tells her it's too dangerous for her to go.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

IIRC in the current version of the game after she recovers her wits she speaks quite coherently. She's just still interested mostly in sucking Rowan's dick, but purely because she's now in love with him if the player declares they have feelings for her and tells her it's too dangerous for her to go.

Only during scenes when she's still reovering... But as far as i choose for her to be restore as a knight, and she can be seen dressed as noblewoman and later with her old armor, after scene ends and until Rastedel's Fall, she still naked and with " ... " as speaking... And I can't be more than WTF?! after seeing an event that show us that she's recovering for see her later in the room as nothing really happened...

 

[ffive]

Only during scenes when she's still reovering... But as far as i choose for her to be restore as a knight, and she can be seen dressed as noblewoman and later with her old armor, after scene ends and until Rastedel's Fall, she still naked and with " ... " as speaking... And I can't be more than WTF?! after seeing an event that show us that she's recovering for see her later in the room as nothing really happened...

Ahh, i didn't keep her in my game so didn't know this. It does sound weird and actually more like a bug than intended behavior, because i seem to recall there's some repeatable events in game files which are supposed to play for recovered Helayna, with her acting pretty normal.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Ahh, i didn't keep her in my game so didn't know this. It does sound weird and actually more like a bug than intended behavior, because i seem to recall there's some repeatable events in game files which are supposed to play for recovered Helayna, with her acting pretty normal.

I invite you to keep her, you'll see what i'm talking about, it's frustrating as fuck...

 

[monk_56]

Am sorry, but making the font bigger doesn't make whatever point you think you're trying to make any clearer. The examples you've provided of how "she can be more in Act II & III" all require her to be still in the castle during these acts. Which is not going to be the case for players who have helped her escape in Act I when she asked them to.

Just b/c someone left the plot at one point doesn't mean there won't be another injection point. It'd be easy enough to bottleneck her back into relevancy at the castle even if she did escape. Extra true in a situation where Rowan has more power. You make a fair point in regards to branching being an issue- but there are certainly creativities one can conjure up to work around the split. Assuming winter felt like it would be narratively worthwhile of course.

Helenya is a way better character than Alexia. More nuanced, more consistently written, and with a much more interesting narrative trajectory.

The brain-dead coomer soap opera that is Alexia's meta-plot can die in a fire. "There are two wolves inside of you- which one is stronger? The one you feed" Corruption edition as your full plot- yikes.

I would never advocate for Helenya to get deuteragonist role in SoC though for fear the same thing would happen to her. She is going to have a much more focused and higher quality story if handled by a single writer.

 

[ffive]

Just b/c someone left the plot at one point doesn't mean there won't be another injection point. It'd be easy enough to bottleneck her back into relevancy at the castle even if she did escape.

I feel like it'd be very difficult to make her return plausible, in the sense given her escape about the only role she has left in case of return is to be tortured until she gives away who facilitated her escape in the first place. Neither Jezera nor Andras strike me as someone who'd allow her to just prance around, without making double sure she's been permanently mind broken this time into becoming an orc cock sleeve, at the very least. It wouldn't matter how much Rowan is going to whine about it.

 

[monk_56]

I feel like it'd be very difficult to make her return plausible, in the sense given her escape about the only role she has left in case of return is to be tortured until she gives away who facilitated her escape in the first place. Neither Jezera nor Andras strike me as someone who'd allow her to just prance around, without making double sure she's been permanently mind broken this time into becoming an orc cock sleeve, at the very least. It wouldn't matter how much Rowan is going to whine about it.

You do realize there will eventually be branches in which the twins don't get to make those decisions anymore right?
Rowan might be a mewling powerless whiny bitch now- but it'll end eventually.
Who knows how many years we will have to wait for that though.
Injecting post-escape Hel back into the plot in a meaningful way would pretty much depend on it. Devs could also do it by recapturing her before Rowan had any power; but as you said it wouldn't be very interesting as a narrative- she'd just get turned into a rape / NTR fetishist cum rag like she already is on the non-Rowan route.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

I feel like it'd be very difficult to make her return plausible, in the sense given her escape about the only role she has left in case of return is to be tortured until she gives away who facilitated her escape in the first place. Neither Jezera nor Andras strike me as someone who'd allow her to just prance around, without making double sure she's been permanently mind broken this time into becoming an orc cock sleeve, at the very least. It wouldn't matter how much Rowan is going to whine about it.

It depends on the narrative... The Twins enjoy making Rowan suffer by taking choices to show the most simple loyalty, they can force Rowan to choose her punishment or she will be permakilled... So... As an element for the narrative, I don't think Act II and much less for Act III to be as open minded or sandbox as Act I, as there are choices and paths taken which history will be move forward, as Rowan could be testify on Rastedel's Fall, he wouldn't waste time and resources and hope in trying to make The Twins a change of heart. He will take the chance if he have it, he'll save her for his own good if in Act I choose to freed her, but the only thing would be how terrible the choices for punishment for her would be choose by Rowan.

It depends on the narrative, and from SoC Team decisions of course... I don't have high expectancy, it would be a surprise if they come from more than just that for Act II...

 

[Dunner]

We can oversimplify the paths for most characters and see where the others may fit.
The best example for the current discussion is Rowan (these are obviously speculations on my part about the possible paths but looking at the choices we have to make they make sense)

Spoiler: Paths

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With these simple template you can come to the conclusion that Helayna and the others can fit in one of these paths as well:

Spoiler: Paths

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This is how I see it in a simplified matter since there are more things at play here like corruption, guilt and other paths that have nothing to do with Rowan's arc.
For now it's fair to say that her story will be closely related to Rowan and less with the Twins compared to Alexia.

 

[ffive]

You do realize there will eventually be branches in which the twins don't get to make those decisions anymore right?

What ever makes you believe this? The only paths for the game which are in place at the moment are ones where you turn on the twins for either good or selfish purpose (effectively ending the game) or serve them faithfully to the bitter end. This doesn't leave room for any sort of power struggle in the middle of the game, where the twins would suddenly start to obey Rowan's wishes against their own.

 

[Nym85]

What ever makes you believe this? The only paths for the game which are in place at the moment are ones where you turn on the twins for either good or selfish purpose (effectively ending the game) or serve them faithfully to the bitter end. This doesn't leave room for any sort of power struggle in the middle of the game, where the twins would suddenly start to obey Rowan's wishes against their own.

Because Rowan doesn't have power enough to compel them. Yet the Priest of Kharos does not show up for the Twins, he shows up for Rowan. I think the narrative sets him up for a chosen one path. Heck maybe in the finale (and only in the finale since anything earlier would be a mess for making CGs) he could even turn demon.

 

[AimlessFool]

Which choice is better for "Good" Rowan telling Helayna that it is dangerous for her to leave alone or helping her escape?

 

[monk_56]

Which choice is better for "Good" Rowan telling Helayna that it is dangerous for her to leave alone or helping her escape?

I think you would get heavy argument about that- and also about which initial choice is the most good.

I suspect the Dev's intended the 'escape' variant to be the more goody two shoes and they intended the 'letting her get raped' variant to be the more goody two shoes variant. A lot of the earlier logical binaries feel like they were designed by a deontologist. I'm not positive on that though- you'd have to ask them directly. Personally, I'm not convinced. The moral ambiguity seems like a design intent though.

Basically, there isn't really a clearly "good" approach vector to either the start of her plot or the end of it. Both major choices are somewhat grey- particularly if you approach them as a utilitarian. Unknown consequences are a bitch.

I try to play as good Rowan and I always claim her and tell her to stay. But it more of a "if all moral considerations are somewhat cloudy, what are other factors" sort of thing than a this a "this is clearly the good thing to do" sort of thing.

 

[diebesgrab]

I... I really don’t think SOC’s choice system has ever been morally binary. Pretty sure the entire premise all along has been “Rowan is in a shitty position and has to make a lot of decisions between things that AREN’T good.”

 

[ffive]

Which choice is better for "Good" Rowan telling Helayna that it is dangerous for her to leave alone or helping her escape?

Helayna will try to escape even if you don't help her, so it's something she's really determined about; Alexia is genuinely hurt by her remaining around and the way Rowan "has" to maintain the ownership; plus, as the players we know for the fact her escape can be successfully orchestrated and carried out. With this benefit of 20/20 hindsight it is imo hard to argue that making her stay is going to be anything but a selfish wish to have one more warm body in the player's harem.

Put it differently, entire motivation fueling Rowan (at least initially) is to get his wife out of this demon castle. It then makes little sense he wouldn't do the same for another woman he cares about, when he has an actual, decent shot at pulling it off.

 

[AimlessFool]

I... I really don’t think SOC’s choice system has ever been morally binary. Pretty sure the entire premise all along has been “Rowan is in a shitty position and has to make a lot of decisions between things that AREN’T good.”

Just like I said a "good" Rowan.

 

[Ashkia]

What is your game/head canon ?What choices did your Rowan/Alexia have made?
In my story Rowan is a virtuous hero with a set of morals that he never forgets.He is loyal to Alexia(except for Helayna because he needed to save her).He is even ready to use Chaos Magic just to make her happy.Alexia on the hand is someone who lost her way in bloodmeen she basically became a toy for Andras.