VN Ren'Py Seeking Closure [v0.8] [Captain Crystallo]

[Ruppubhai]

Wth man.......After all the careful decisions I took I only get to chose 1 girl ..... Rape scene could have been avoided, maybe some visible scars because of physical altercation at most. I get it not every game should have harem ending but there could have been an option for it. I mean so many beautiful girls...just wasted. This update just left a very bitter taste for me.

 

[Captain Crystallo]

Wth man.......After all the careful decisions I took I only get to chose 1 girl ..... Rape scene could have been avoided, maybe some visible scars because of physical altercation at most. I get it not every game should have harem ending but there could have been an option for it. I mean so many beautiful girls...just wasted. This update just left a very bitter taste for me.

I'll consider editing the scene to make it less brutal. It does start to seem like it's too much for many players.

As for the "wasted" decisions, that's not necessarily the case.

Spoiler: Love interests in Part 2

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[MiltonPowers]

Wth man.......After all the careful decisions I took I only get to chose 1 girl . I get it not every game should have harem ending but there could have been an option for it. I mean so many beautiful girls...just wasted. This update just left a very bitter taste for me.

The Dev announced over 2 years ago that it wasn't a harem game.

 

[artofwar]

Thank you for your input.

It's something I've been heavily pondering myself when writing the script, and I might change it both here and for the Steam release. As you said, the events are traumatic enough on their own without going that far. It arguably doesn't add enough to the story (despite probably being more realistic) while potentially rubbing a lot of players the wrong way.

Edited the tags to reflect what is currently in the game, thank you.

I've sat on it for a week or so now, but yeah, have to agree, I'm not sure it's really necessary. LI's being raped (or almost) is not exactly the most palatable thing. LI's being killed off isn't, either.

The fact that they were kidnapped, roughed up and the other person they were imprisoned with was murdered would leave them with enough trauma to push the story forward without going all DPC on us.

 

[DeadpoolandWolverine]

does any one no if the next update might be the finally ?

 

[Captain Crystallo]

I've sat on it for a week or so now, but yeah, have to agree, I'm not sure it's really necessary. LI's being raped (or almost) is not exactly the most palatable thing. LI's being killed off isn't, either.

The fact that they were kidnapped, roughed up and the other person they were imprisoned with was murdered would leave them with enough trauma to push the story forward without going all DPC on us.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts as well. Seems like everyone is leaning in the same direction in their feedback.
I'll think about how to soften up the edges, but obviously that won't change the experience for everyone who has already downloaded and played\is playing the game.

I guess seeing so much death in the last three years fucked up my perception of reality more than I realized.

 

[Ragnar]

I'll consider editing the scene to make it less brutal. It does start to seem like it's too much for many players.

As for the "wasted" decisions, that's not necessarily the case.

Spoiler: Love interests in Part 2

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I don't think that scene is bad for an adult game.
Show don't tell.

 

[Captain Crystallo]

I don't think that scene is bad for an adult game.
Show don't tell.

That was my line of thinking at the time (and I had an even more violent version of the scene written at the draft stage), but if even people who really like my project feel like I went too far, then I should probably reconsider some things.

Or maybe I should do what I did at the end of Chapter 7 and have the player decide how much they want to "see", although I'm not currently sure how to do that without disrupting the flow of the story.

 

[Ragnar]

That was my line of thinking at the time (and I had an even more violent version of the scene written at the draft stage), but if even people who really like my project feel like I went too far, then I should probably reconsider some things.

Or maybe I should do what I did at the end of Chapter 7 and have the player decide how much they want to "see", although I'm not currently sure how to do that without disrupting the flow of the story.

You can use a switch at the begining to play a censored/uncensored version or something like that.
That way you have both, your own vision and a toned down violence version for some players.

 

[Captain Crystallo]

You can use a switch at the begining to play a censored/uncensored version or something like that.
That way you have both, your own vision and a toned down violence version for some players.

That is probably the way to go. Thank you for your advice.

 

[artofwar]

I don't think that scene is bad for an adult game.
Show don't tell.

Which one? Because there are a few variations. It isn't that it's bad. It isn't that it's especially traumatic for the player or anything like that, there's definitely *way* rougher shit out there. It's that asking people to get attached to LI's (whether you're on their route at that moment or not) only to then have them get raped and/or murdered doesn't really fit the rest of the game and I can't imagine that the typical player who enjoys the game up until that point will be the same type of player that will be thrilled to continue past that point. Though IDK, I could be wrong there.

Adding the old "skippable but not avoidable" isn't going to really help all that much there, at that point you may as well just leave it as is. I don't know that adding more branches to the ?4? that were there with that scene alone is a great idea either lol.

I guess it just depends on what tone you want to set for the remainder of the VN, is it one where LI's are disposable - don't get attached because shit's going to get rough? Or is it just that you want a traumatic catalyst to kick off some headfeels for the characters so that the present makes more sense going forward?

 

[Captain Crystallo]

Which one? Because there are a few variations. It isn't that it's bad. It isn't that it's especially traumatic for the player or anything like that, there's definitely *way* rougher shit out there. It's that asking people to get attached to LI's (whether you're on their route at that moment or not) only to then have them get raped and/or murdered doesn't really fit the rest of the game and I can't imagine that the typical player who enjoys the game up until that point will be the same type of player that will be thrilled to continue past that point. Though IDK, I could be wrong there.

Adding the old "skippable but not avoidable" isn't going to really help all that much there, at that point you may as well just leave it as is. I don't know that adding more branches to the ?4? that were there with that scene alone is a great idea either lol.

I guess it just depends on what tone you want to set for the remainder of the VN, is it one where LI's are disposable - don't get attached because shit's going to get rough? Or is it just that you want a traumatic catalyst to kick off some headfeels for the characters so that the present makes more sense going forward?

Well, that's the tricky part for me. As I couldn't previously know (and even now it's hard to say) how players would react and how many of them would drop the game after that. There being a murder at the resort, and this whole situation being traumatic for the MC was mentioned from the very first chapter, but obviously, that doesn't mean what the players got is what they expected.

I don't think making a poll "Will you stop playing the game if X happens (but it's avoidable)?" would help much either.

As for the tone, it will continue to shift, going from the more somber moments after Chapter 8 to a more "tranquil" atmosphere in Part 2 that will allow for different relationship stories to play out before the story crescendos again at the end. However, the main purpose behind this event is definitely to explain why the MC eventually ended up being in the headspace that Julia found him in. Is death\rape necessary to push him to that point? The answer to that will very much depend on who you're asking.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Well, that's the tricky part for me. As I couldn't previously know (and even now it's hard to say) how players would react and how many of them would drop the game after that. There being a murder at the resort, and this whole situation being traumatic for the MC was mentioned from the very first chapter, but obviously, that doesn't mean what the players got is what they expected.

I don't think making a poll "Will you stop playing the game if X happens (but it's avoidable)?" would help much either.

As for the tone, it will continue to shift, going from the more somber moments after Chapter 8 to a more "tranquil" atmosphere in Part 2 that will allow for different relationship stories to play out before the story crescendos again at the end. However, the main purpose behind this event is definitely to explain why the MC eventually ended up being in the headspace that Julia found him in. Is death\rape necessary to push him to that point? The answer to that will very much depend on who you're asking.

Just to give a different perspective, I was happy with the way you presented it (happy is not quite the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean). I care about the journey and the romantic development with LI or LIs I choose on that path. If it's emotional and hard hitting, then the journey becomes even more meaningful.

I knew from the very start that a murder was going to happen, not who obviously, but I knew that it would be someone close. The state MC starts in, it was not going to be a random stranger. There is no way it was going to be someone like the barista (Jeremy?). It was going to be someone who he cared about.

I think I said in an earlier post that Chapter 8 really explained a lot of the earlier stuff and connected it all together (a lot closer than before anyway). I now understand why MC was so depressed and why we discovered him like that in Chapter 1, and the journey he has had to undertake to get mentally right again.

Just my 20c, but not everyone is disappointed with how it was done.

 

[artofwar]

Well, that's the tricky part for me. As I couldn't previously know (and even now it's hard to say) how players would react and how many of them would drop the game after that. There being a murder at the resort, and this whole situation being traumatic for the MC was mentioned from the very first chapter, but obviously, that doesn't mean what the players got is what they expected.

I don't think making a poll "Will you stop playing the game if X happens (but it's avoidable)?" would help much either.

As for the tone, it will continue to shift, going from the more somber moments after Chapter 8 to a more "tranquil" atmosphere in Part 2 that will allow for different relationship stories to play out before the story crescendos again at the end. However, the main purpose behind this event is definitely to explain why the MC eventually ended up being in the headspace that Julia found him in. Is death\rape necessary to push him to that point? The answer to that will very much depend on who you're asking.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people will drop it entirely. Sorry that's my bad for not thinking things through before speaking. Maybe it'll help if I say more about how I'm thinking and less about what I "imagine" lol - so, following the ending, SC has gone from something I'm eagerly anticipating the release of a new update for to something I'll cautiously check out in a while. That's what I meant before.

I'm all for darker themes, broaching more serious topics and even darker VN's at times, I'm fine with the MC being vile, I'm fine with the entire world being vile - what I'm not so keen on is a more romance themed VN with a bit of a mystery going on having a LI get raped and/or killed off in the middle of it.

Yeah, absolutely that's been a part of it - I was thinking the MC had killed someone, that someone slowly narrowing down over the chapters. How much of that is what was actually foreshadowed and how much of it is a shoddy memory over a couple years though, I'm not sure

 

[Captain Crystallo]

Just to give a different perspective, I was happy with the way you presented it (happy is not quite the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean). I care about the journey and the romantic development with LI or LIs I choose on that path. If it's emotional and hard hitting, then the journey becomes even more meaningful.

I knew from the very start that a murder was going to happen, not who obviously, but I knew that it would be someone close. The state MC starts in, it was not going to be a random stranger. There is no way it was going to be someone like the barista (Jeremy?). It was going to be someone who he cared about.

I think I said in an earlier post that Chapter 8 really explained a lot of the earlier stuff and connected it all together (a lot closer than before anyway). I now understand why MC was so depressed and why we discovered him like that in Chapter 1, and the journey he has had to undertake to get mentally right again.

Just my 20c, but not everyone is disappointed with how it was done.

Once again, I'm very grateful for both the positive feedback and for voicing a different take on the events that unfold in the game.

I'm definitely not dismissing your outlook (or my own vision for that matter), but I think it's also important to be open to potentially finding ways that can make the game better for more people without ruining its narrative core.

 

[Ragnar]

Which one? Because there are a few variations. It isn't that it's bad. It isn't that it's especially traumatic for the player or anything like that, there's definitely *way* rougher shit out there. It's that asking people to get attached to LI's (whether you're on their route at that moment or not) only to then have them get raped and/or murdered doesn't really fit the rest of the game and I can't imagine that the typical player who enjoys the game up until that point will be the same type of player that will be thrilled to continue past that point. Though IDK, I could be wrong there.

Adding the old "skippable but not avoidable" isn't going to really help all that much there, at that point you may as well just leave it as is. I don't know that adding more branches to the ?4? that were there with that scene alone is a great idea either lol.

I guess it just depends on what tone you want to set for the remainder of the VN, is it one where LI's are disposable - don't get attached because shit's going to get rough? Or is it just that you want a traumatic catalyst to kick off some headfeels for the characters so that the present makes more sense going forward?

But you don't want a toned down rape scene, you want to change the game's story.
I bet if the sacrificed one was a dude nobody would care

 

[Captain Crystallo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people will drop it entirely. Sorry that's my bad for not thinking things through before speaking. Maybe it'll help if I say more about how I'm thinking and less about what I "imagine" lol - so, following the ending, SC has gone from something I'm eagerly anticipating the release of a new update for to something I'll cautiously check out in a while. That's what I meant before.

I'm all for darker themes, broaching more serious topics and even darker VN's at times, I'm fine with the MC being vile, I'm fine with the entire world being vile - what I'm not so keen on is a more romance themed VN with a bit of a mystery going on having a LI get raped and/or killed off in the middle of it.

Yeah, absolutely that's been a part of it - I was thinking the MC had killed someone, that someone slowly narrowing down over the chapters. How much of that is what was actually foreshadowed and how much of it is a shoddy memory over a couple years though, I'm not sure

Those are completely fair thoughts and a reasonable reaction to have. I'd imagine it will be shared by a large percentage of players since 80% of the game is very much a slice-of-life romance story, even if darker themes were foreshadowed from the start.

For now, though, most people who were going to download this chapter (and my supporters) have downloaded it already, since the game is gradually getting pushed back in the "Recently Updated" list, so the damage was already done. I'll wait to see if more people provide their feedback, and then make the decision about reworking or not reworking parts of this chapter.

 

[artofwar]

But you don't want a toned down rape scene, you want to change the game's story.
I bet if the sacrificed one was a dude nobody would care

I mean, I played this chapter a bit over a week ago and held my tongue for a while there, until I saw the dev say:

It's something I've been heavily pondering myself when writing the script, and I might change it both here and for the Steam release. As you said, the events are traumatic enough on their own without going that far. It arguably doesn't add enough to the story (despite probably being more realistic) while potentially rubbing a lot of players the wrong way.

I was prepared for it to just be my problem, and I was fine with that if that was what he was going for. Kinda didn't seem that way when I saw that though.

Still, if you want to say that nobody would care if they don't get raped? Someone important to the MC is kidnapped, the entire time he's running around like a headless chicken, completely impotent. He finally manages to catch on to what's going on and where and again, even with backup he's completely useless. Things *can* turn out in a way that isn't quite so dark (currently) - but even in the best case he's little more than a mere annoyance. A LI being kidnapped and beaten while the girl you've been looking for being murdered isn't exactly nothing, either. To me, that's enough of an impetus to explain why our pretty sensitive MC is a sad sack in the beginning.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I knew from the very start that a murder was going to happen, not who obviously, but I knew that it would be someone close. The state MC starts in, it was not going to be a random stranger. There is no way it was going to be someone like the barista (Jeremy?). It was going to be someone who he cared about.

I totally agree, the beginning of the story makes it clear that something had gone incredibly wrong in the past to leave the MC in that state.

 

[Captain Crystallo]

I mean, I played this chapter a bit over a week ago and held my tongue for a while there, until I saw the dev say:



I was prepared for it to just be my problem, and I was fine with that if that was what he was going for. Kinda didn't seem that way when I saw that though.

Still, if you want to say that nobody would care if they don't get raped? Someone important to the MC is kidnapped, the entire time he's running around like a headless chicken, completely impotent. He finally manages to catch on to what's going on and where and again, even with backup he's completely useless. Things *can* turn out in a way that isn't quite so dark (currently) - but even in the best case he's little more than a mere annoyance. A LI being kidnapped and beaten while the girl you've been looking for being murdered isn't exactly nothing, either. To me, that's enough of an impetus to explain why our pretty sensitive MC is a sad sack in the beginning.

I think I should clarify what exactly I was referring to when I said I was considering a change, in case it wasn't clear.
I was thinking about removing the rape part and just having the girl be beaten up and traumatized, similar to how you suggested, but for the paths that lead to the LI dying, those would remain mostly the same (maybe less focus on showing the bodies and stuff like that). I could also make it easier to achieve an ending that avoids death, but not remove it completely.