Ren'Py Shattered Minds [v0.15 Hotfix02] [eXtasy Games]

[Rapunzel123]

Hey there, stunning game btw.
Little Problem, i cant find Cara at her Tanning Studio, for ask about the lotion... what can i do?

 

[Rapunzel123]

Fix it, i doesnt work with the german patch. woithout patch, no problem

 

[Bronzescorpion]

yup she was but did you even read what i said? how is telling us (indirectly of course) everything while erasing mc memory is not a third wall breaker? and how is it not a plot hole? and btw its not forth wall its third wall, i won't bother explaining the difference so if you want to know go do a bit of research.

you maybe right about that i probably shouldn't have indirectly responded to an indirect reply or whatever it was.

Link to third/forth wall break definition for those who might be interested:

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(Edit: just provided links to the definition of breaking third/forth wall)

Okay, let's break it down.

Firstly, the term breaking the third wall hasn't been widely accepted yet, but let's go with it.
Your second link should be taken with a very critical eye. See how it mentions breaking the first, second and fifth wall as well, which isn't established terms and when you look them up, the few that are speaking of them are saying different things. This discredit the author of the article a good deal.

Your first link is better and it essentially defines the break as this: When a character addresses the medium.

Now you are running into a problem, because Ava isn't addressing the medium, she doesn't acknowledge she is in a game. She is speaking directly to the MC and while it may seem pointless, because he can't remember afterwards, that actually is the point. She is evil and can tell him her plan without him being able to defend against it. It is a power play. Remember the MC did the same thing to Scarlett. Making her aware, but unable to stop the process of her getting enslaved. A power play and revenge for the MC. Ava is doing something similar, we just happen to experience it from the victims side now.

As for it being a plot hole, well a plot hole is then there is inconsistency in the story or something is contradicting. This doesn't happen here. Not only doesn't the event contradict anything, if you look at Ava's behavior before, it falls quite in line with her already shown personality.

It is even more hilarious, when you realize it fixes at the time a presumed plot hole. Multiple people were saying that the way you tackled Bill's problem would be suspicious and was a stupid way to fix the problem, but it turned out that was actually Ava's intend, because she did want to raise suspicion and get caught. So the previous actions made sense, we just didn't know it at the time.

 

[Juerhullycin]

Okay, let's break it down.

Firstly, the term breaking the third wall hasn't been widely accepted yet, but let's go with it.
Your second link should be taken with a very critical eye. See how it mentions breaking the first, second and fifth wall as well, which isn't established terms and when you look them up, the few that are speaking of them are saying different things. This discredit the author of the article a good deal.

Your first link is better and it essentially defines the break as this: When a character addresses the medium.

Now you are running into a problem, because Ava isn't addressing the medium, she doesn't acknowledge she is in a game. She is speaking directly to the MC and while it may seem pointless, because he can't remember afterwards, that actually is the point. She is evil and can tell him her plan without him being able to defend against it. It is a power play. Remember the MC did the same thing to Scarlett. Making her aware, but unable to stop the process of her getting enslaved. A power play and revenge for the MC. Ava is doing something similar, we just happen to experience it from the victims side now.

As for it being a plot hole, well a plot hole is then there is inconsistency in the story or something is contradicting. This doesn't happen here. Not only doesn't the event contradict anything, if you look at Ava's behavior before, it falls quite in line with her already shown personality.

It is even more hilarious, when you realize it fixes at the time a presumed plot hole. Multiple people were saying that the way you tackled Bill's problem would be suspicious and was a stupid way to fix the problem, but it turned out that was actually Ava's intend, because she did want to raise suspicion and get caught. So the previous actions made sense, we just didn't know it at the time.

game is nonetheless completely worthless, because nothing we did was our doing, we aren't even the MC at that point.

 

[Bronzescorpion]

game is nonetheless completely worthless, because nothing we did was our doing, we aren't even the MC at that point.

Not true. Firstly we did do things out of our own volition, even if we were being manipulated, most of the time the interests aligned with each other. Secondly we are still the MC. Just because there is another pulling the threads doesn't make them the MC and furthermore it is still possible for the MC to get the upper hand later in the story.

 

[Chris2041]

Not true. Firstly we did do things out of our own volition, even if we were being manipulated, most of the time the interests aligned with each other. Secondly we are still the MC. Just because there is another pulling the threads doesn't make them the MC and furthermore it is still possible for the MC to get the upper hand later in the story.

We hope so if not i dont see the point in having a mind control game where we are in fact the one being controlled this type of twists is very hard to pull them off they could be very good or they could make people hate the game also depends how much time this takes if the struggle takes to much time people are gonna get pissed after all we signing for mind control a harem not to be the ones controlled by the main antagonist

 

[Ryzetsu]

40 is not >40, so corrupt her one more time.

How do you do that? I can't find a way to corrupt her, I am stuck at 32

 

[Ryzetsu]

Guys how do I corrupt Scarlett? I have 32 corruption point and I can't find a way to increase it? Is there any character I have to pursue first to get going with Scarlett?

 

[Bronzescorpion]

Guys how do I corrupt Scarlett? I have 32 corruption point and I can't find a way to increase it? Is there any character I have to pursue first to get going with Scarlett?

Find her in the afternoon in the gym hall.

 

[Juerhullycin]

Not true. Firstly we did do things out of our own volition, even if we were being manipulated, most of the time the interests aligned with each other. Secondly we are still the MC. Just because there is another pulling the threads doesn't make them the MC and furthermore it is still possible for the MC to get the upper hand later in the story.

thats what you want, maybe the stuff MC did off his own volition is on Avas command you just dont know it yet.

Do we even know that MC is MC and that his "own volition" is his own? Memorys make up who we are and how we react to stuff, even if she's only able to let MC forget shit, how do we know any character is what they seem to be? Maybe we just forgot how they really are. Maybe Mc has an abysmal relationship whit them, maybe Kobe is MCs best friend and we just forgot that too. Its Bullshit thats what it is.

 

[Bronzescorpion]

thats what you want, maybe the stuff MC did off his own volition is on Avas command you just dont know it yet.

Do we even know that MC is MC and that his "own volition" is his own? Memorys make up who we are and how we react to stuff, even if she's only able to let MC forget shit, how do we know any character is what they seem to be? Maybe we just forgot how they really are. Maybe Mc has an abysmal relationship whit them, maybe Kobe is MCs best friend and we just forgot that too. Its Bullshit thats what it is.

The only bullshit to me is the crap you are spewing here. There is nothing indicating that this is going on and it would require further change than just to the MC. Kobe would for example also have been made to forget.

But if we are putting the tinfoil hat on and begin to speculate, how are you certain that in any story the characters are what they seem to be? You can't, you just have to go with what has been given you. At the moment in this particular story, there isn't reason to suspect that Ava has done things to you except for the times we have seen already. Why try to convince you to do change Bill, if see can easily rewire you? Why isn't she strong enough and has to give control back if see had altered the MC completely already? Heck why do she need to take control, if she already has it?

Your speculations are wild and unlikely, so it is stupid to jump to conclusion from them. See how it goes instead.

 

[rafa30]

Hello
any complete save?
thanks

 

[Juerhullycin]

The only bullshit to me is the crap you are spewing here. There is nothing indicating that this is going on and it would require further change than just to the MC. Kobe would for example also have been made to forget.

But if we are putting the tinfoil hat on and begin to speculate, how are you certain that in any story the characters are what they seem to be? You can't, you just have to go with what has been given you. At the moment in this particular story, there isn't reason to suspect that Ava has done things to you except for the times we have seen already. Why try to convince you to do change Bill, if see can easily rewire you? Why isn't she strong enough and has to give control back if see had altered the MC completely already? Heck why do she need to take control, if she already has it?

Your speculations are wild and unlikely, so it is stupid to jump to conclusion from them. See how it goes instead.

 

[ProfessorChaos]

If Ava was never apart of mc the medieval part in mc's mind made no sense and is a massive plot hole.

The reason given when mc was drug and can't use his powers, but Ava can made absolutely no sense. The only way it would make sense is if Ava taking over magically turns mc's body into hers, but it didn't. Others still see mc's body as mc mind controlled or not. And if Ava was that powerful she would never need mc to begin with. Why would she tell mc he is never getting his body back just to give it back instantly.

The reasons and explainations given by Ava does not make sense given her actions. If you had the key to you cell the entire time, why would you stay in that cell. Ava could of done everyting that mc did but better with less time and effort. We've know she was very powerful on the first day. It just bad writing.

 

[Punto]

Wait for an update

 

[botc76]

Does the cheat mod actually help with the grind?
I liked the dev's first game alright, but everytime I try to play this, the sandbox just makes me shudder and close it again.
Really have no stomach any more for grinding and senselessly clicking around in this type of games, just want to experience the story.

 

[lancekro]

Does the cheat mod actually help with the grind?
I liked the dev's first game alright, but everytime I try to play this, the sandbox just makes me shudder and close it again.
Really have no stomach any more for grinding and senselessly clicking around in this type of games, just want to experience the story.

Frankly the grind is very minimal but if you really don't want to grind then the cheat mod will bring it down to 0.
That is, if it is compatible with current version of the game. I tried it a few updates ago and found it to be too OP so I uninstalled it and didn't try it again since.

 

[Fulminato]

anyone else stopped playing and also find this latest eva's story twist a bit more third wall breaker? i mean she basically erased the whole thing from mc's memory so what was the point of that? wouldn't it make more sense if the mc knew about it but couldn't do anything?

what you are talking is a matter of

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giving the player informations the characters don't have (anymore)

any reference to broken any wall is just pile of nonsense.

the last i checked i had rights to make a judgment on something i spend my time on and not everything can be interesting to everyone and just like i said before i only stopped playing because i don't like the direction this story is taking and also because i don't like plot holes, specifically the ones that break third wall.

even if assuming any "breaking wall" definition outside the fourth as correct this will never be an automatic plot hole.
plot hole is a missing element, or something illogical in the flow of the events. interact directly with the audience don't change per se how the event played, because what need to change is what happen on the screen based on information characters don't have. and if the case arised it's more a question of having

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character without any reason explaining where their extra knowledge come. and again it isn't related in any way to any "wall breaking"

the last i checked i had rights to make a judgment on something i spend my time on

and other people are allowed to make judgment of what they read and spend their time on. your posts included.

yup she was but did you even read what i said? how is telling us (indirectly of course) everything while erasing mc memory is not a third wall breaker? and how is it not a plot hole? and btw its not forth wall its third wall, i won't bother explaining the difference so if you want to know go do a bit of research.

you maybe right about that i probably shouldn't have indirectly responded to an indirect reply or whatever it was.

Link to third/forth wall break definition for those who might be interested:

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,

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(Edit: just provided links to the definition of breaking third/forth wall)

<<Because the term “breaking the third wall” is relatively new, its definition hasn’t yet been codified into every cinephile’s vocabulary>>

you should know when a new term/locution is involved you cannot take for granted everyone understand them. it's litteraly the point of a new and not codified expression. thinking everything i know everyone know and everything i don't know everyone don't know is a bit... arrogant, don't you agree?

game is nonetheless completely worthless, because nothing we did was our doing, we aren't even the MC at that point.

lolvut? in any game what you are allowed to do it's set by the game developers. at the most basic level any cut-scene or scripted scene 'rob' player of control over the main character, you will have an hard time try to pass it as violation of player agency.

thats what you want, maybe the stuff MC did off his own volition is on Avas command you just dont know it yet.

Do we even know that MC is MC and that his "own volition" is his own? Memorys make up who we are and how we react to stuff, even if she's only able to let MC forget shit, how do we know any character is what they seem to be? Maybe we just forgot how they really are. Maybe Mc has an abysmal relationship whit them, maybe Kobe is MCs best friend and we just forgot that too. Its Bullshit thats what it is.

the only bullshit it's what you are spewing. i think you aren't familiar with the

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, but you should don't add any uncesseray element to explain the events. and the game and the story are very early in developement. a story/game without any narrative twist, antagonist and problem are boring story/game. i know your whining come from your little ego hurt because the MC isn't a uber power player without any chance to beign outplayed.

If Ava was never apart of mc the medieval part in mc's mind made no sense and is a massive plot hole.

ava is trapped in MC mind. this is sure. but because she is trapped, this mean she not originally 'come in existance' inside the mc mind. and if you noted in the medieval segment, the MC cannot use his power, but ava can use her.

The reason given when mc was drug and can't use his powers, but Ava can made absolutely no sense. The only way it would make sense is if Ava taking over magically turns mc's body into hers, but it didn't. Others still see mc's body as mc mind controlled or not. And if Ava was that powerful she would never need mc to begin with. Why would she tell mc he is never getting his body back just to give it back instantly.

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to have

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?

The reasons and explainations given by Ava does not make sense given her actions. If you had the key to you cell the entire time, why would you stay in that cell. Ava could of done everyting that mc did but better with less time and effort. We've know she was very powerful on the first day. It just bad writing.

the switch between the "mind" in control of the body must be voluntary, to keep your metaphor, the key of the cell is alwasy outside the cell, and the "mind" outside need to voluntary open the cell door to allow the switch between them.

the game it's very explicit in why ava cannot hold control over MC body. the body itself cannot sustain her without damaging itself for a prologned time.
it's basically what ava said just before allowing the switch back

of course how i didn't i see that coming? and of course everything that goes against your theory is wrong and people who wrote it are also complete morons...

a kindergarten level of argument, at best. you totally disregard the argument and go for a personal attack instead.
and well, i checked myself... and Bronzescorpion assessment is mostly correct. i found a few reddit thread a few years old where the question about third wall is posted and in no one there is any reply about the third, only people explaining the fourth wall. this validate the neologism aspect.

btw there are countless explanations of 'third wall' theory, i only posted two because i was trying to avoid spamming...

if there are "countless" explanation, mean in fact there are "none". for example breking the fourth wall had only one explanation, when actors interact directly with the audience. you can make "countless" examples. but explanation? only one. {any other is just a rephrasing of it}

just because a term is not "widely" accepted doesn't meant its not true/correct and there are whole lot of differences about many things, people just keep arguing about pointless stuff

if a term isn't "widely accepted" mean you cannot take for granted your interlocutor is in the "group of people accepting and in agreement what that term mean" you belong.

take this discussion as an example. also there can't be a forth wall without third wall...

lol, i hardly can think a more dumb take about the question. a box (like a teather stage volume where actors play) had four wall, a floor and a ceiling. but only three are physical, the fourth is the space separating actors and audience. it's theater 101.

Dude i am not and Ava is "indirectly" addressing the audience and that's exactly what i said and just fyi it would be breaking forth wall if she was addressing the audience directly.

no. ava is directly talking to the MC mind, and you can actually read about what he think. another angle is why ava should reveal her plan to the MC if she need to scrub the memory after? the answer is "power player", the same MC have done to scarlett, a little sadistic exercise.

if you think in that moment ava is talking to the audience mean you don't actually know when a four wall is broken.

 

[Juerhullycin]

bla bla bla

everything he knows about his powers came from Ava so why should any of that be true?
Ava can explode heads and mind wipe mc who allegedly has powers

for all we know Ava is in control of everything and lets MC believe that he has powers and lets the others fake that mc controls them because she finds his antics hilarious like a little puppy

 

[Fulminato]

everything he knows about his powers came from Ava so why should any of that be true?
Ava can explode heads and mind wipe mc who allegedly has powers

no. we have some real world confirmation how MC powers work. at the moment suggestion, corruption and enslaving. {i mean, the MC actually use them} and until now there isn't any discrepance about their work and ava explanation of them.

yes there is a possibility ava is hiding some power the MC have, or she is twisting their actual scope and form of MC powers. but this don't mean everything she said was false

the MC can mind wipe people, and his power are developing. we don't know if the MC power kit don't include a "mind pop" sort of power. he is slowly unlocking them.

for all we know Ava is in control of everything and lets MC believe that he has powers and lets the others fake that mc controls them because she finds his antics hilarious like a little puppy

no, we know ava isn't in control of everything. she need to use MC naive to put him in a thigh spot to force him to let her take over is body. if she was full in control, for real, she never needed to use underhanded ways to take control, nor she need to relinquish the body control to MC mind after escaping from the fed and brainwashing the agent.

EDIT: the dna test done by the fed agent show the MC had power, his father posses similar powers, and we (players) know that from a dialouge between the agents, so it's totally unrelated to ava. the MC have power, and they were suppressed when the fed take him in custody.
but they don't know about ava, and the fact her power aren't blocked when MC power are.