Starkmk87

Member
Oct 16, 2020
221
127
Lag has nothing to do with it. Not as far as far as why they are used is concerned, that more your hardware and renpy.

What we mean is, character models can contain hundreds of thousands of poly's. Reason you rarely see more than 2 characters ever in a scene? Because they require so much VRAM to render most VN makers just don't have the hardware to render them in any reasonable amount of time. Creating a billboard yourself (or using one off Daz/Rendo) means you could have 20 billboard characters in a scene and still require less VRAM to render that scene than using 2 or 3 actual 3D characters.
Still don't get it but good explanation
 

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
9,988
23,111
Still don't get it but good explanation
The way Daz works is, the more poly's in a scene (and that means, in the scene...not just what will show in front of the camera when rendered, many new users don't realise that), the more VRAM is required to render it (you really don't want it switching to your CPU). Character models (especially the newer ones) are incredibly poly heavy/intensive. Unless you have a very good system....you will soon run out of VRAM during rendering which is why as I asked/said...why you rarely see more than a couple of characters in a scene.

Billboards, you render the character on it's own (no background etc and in ideally 12-16 positions spinning around in a circle to get all different angles) keeping it simple for you...you then import those back into Daz and can then change the axis of them. As they are effectively now just an image...a billboard cutout....they require virtually next to no VRAM to render.

Without getting too complicated regarding rendering in Daz/Octane etc....hope that makes it a little easier to understand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andrew Rider

Starkmk87

Member
Oct 16, 2020
221
127
The way Daz works is, the more poly's in a scene (and that means, in the scene...not just what will show in front of the camera when rendered, many new users don't realise that), the more VRAM is required to render it (you really don't want it switching to your CPU). Character models (especially the newer ones) are incredibly poly heavy/intensive. Unless you have a very good system....you will soon run out of VRAM during rendering which is why as I asked/said...why you rarely see more than a couple of characters in a scene.

Billboards, you render the character on it's own (no background etc and in ideally 12-16 positions spinning around in a circle to get all different angles) keeping it simple for you...you then import those back into Daz and can then change the axis of them. As they are effectively now just an image...a billboard cutout....they require virtually next to no VRAM to render.

Without getting too complicated regarding rendering in Daz/Octane etc....hope that makes it a little easier to understand.
I understand how daz works as well as any other rendering programs... But as I said... Or attempted to... I expected those scenes to be pre rendered before hand and there less resource exhausting thus more stream lined like the usual scenes

However I appreciate the in depth description.
 

seamanq

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
1,896
2,874
I understand how daz works as well as any other rendering programs... But as I said... Or attempted to... I expected those scenes to be pre rendered before hand and there less resource exhausting thus more stream lined like the usual scenes

However I appreciate the in depth description.
Some games do what you suggest, Daughter for Dessert (DFD) is a good example. The backgrounds are mostly pre-rendered, and the actor is set as an overlay, so for scenes with preset backgrounds, the rendering is minimal. In the bar case, these scenes are custom and each scene is different, so the original scene usually wouldn't be reused (but could be in some cases). This game doesn't work like DFD, so it has a lot more renders, and of course animations are just a ton of individual shots strung together, and this game has a lot of those especially with Abby kissing the MC so frequently. Because of all of those extra renders, that makes this game a lot more work than a typical VN would be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: felicemastronzo

Starkmk87

Member
Oct 16, 2020
221
127
Some games do what you suggest, Daughter for Dessert (DFD) is a good example. The backgrounds are mostly pre-rendered, and the actor is set as an overlay, so for scenes with preset backgrounds, the rendering is minimal. In the bar case, these scenes are custom and each scene is different, so the original scene usually wouldn't be reused (but could be in some cases). This game doesn't work like DFD, so it has a lot more renders, and of course animations are just a ton of individual shots strung together, and this game has a lot of those especially with Abby kissing the MC so frequently. Because of all of those extra renders, that makes this game a lot more work than a typical VN would be.
Cool didn't know it could work like that. Thanks for the information
 

Ayhsel

Chocolate Vampire
Donor
May 9, 2019
4,889
16,247
This game doesn't work like DFD, so it has a lot more renders, and of course animations are just a ton of individual shots strung together, and this game has a lot of those especially with Abby kissing the MC so frequently. Because of all of those extra renders, that makes this game a lot more work than a typical VN would be.
It would be so good to simply get rid of animations... too costly in terms of resources for the benefit they provide.
 

Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,515
14,661
It would be so good to simply get rid of animations... too costly in terms of resources for the benefit they provide.
In most cases I agree, yes they can be beautiful and enhance but I don't know if I find them really worth it. Of course this is coming from someone who mutes the sounds on vns and uses his own soundtrack so who knows.
 

Badjourasmix

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 22, 2017
7,019
15,777
I like animations I think they make the game better. At least as long as they aren't like 3 frame loops then I think they are pointless.
 

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
9,988
23,111
You all know my stance...however I do like the quirky and unusual animations in this one for sure.
 

Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,515
14,661
You all know my stance...however I do like the quirky and unusual animations in this one for sure.
In this game I will admit I love the kisses. But to me that is the exception not the rule, if that makes sense. Unique animations I get, but the same ol' nudge nudge wink wink ones well they do nothing for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maviarab

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
9,988
23,111
In this game I will admit I love the kisses. But to me that is the exception not the rule, if that makes sense. Unique animations I get, but the same ol' nudge nudge wink wink ones well they do nothing for me.
Exactly! With animations....do em right...or save yourself the time and hassle, your Vn will be no worse for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GrammerCop

quorkboy

Active Member
Sep 26, 2020
801
1,623
I've played games with and without animations (I don't count 2 or 3 frames repeated with a fade between to simulate motion as animation.) When done well they really enhance the game. I'd rather wait a little longer for an update and get quality animations than quicker updates with only stationary images.

Though if the story is keeping me entertained enough I can accept only stationary images.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mofonistik

seamanq

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
1,896
2,874
It would be so good to simply get rid of animations... too costly in terms of resources for the benefit they provide.
I would beg to differ on that one. Yes, animations are resource intensive. However, they do add significant value to the game by adding a greater feeling of realism that even the best 3D renders cannot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tazaaron

seamanq

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 28, 2018
1,896
2,874
I've played games with and without animations (I don't count 2 or 3 frames repeated with a fade between to simulate motion as animation.) When done well they really enhance the game. I'd rather wait a little longer for an update and get quality animations than quicker updates with only stationary images.

Though if the story is keeping me entertained enough I can accept only stationary images.
I am with you on that one. I really like all of the animations in this one, and especially for Abby, it fits her personality and how she is trying to reconnect with her daddy as she has been deprived for so long ...
 

Ayhsel

Chocolate Vampire
Donor
May 9, 2019
4,889
16,247
I would beg to differ on that one. Yes, animations are resource intensive. However, they do add significant value to the game by adding a greater feeling of realism that even the best 3D renders cannot.
I disagree strongly. For some things they do feel like a fresh way to show something, but almost all the time, the same thing can be done with a few great renders.

Unless you want to show me something that it is intrinsically linked with movement, as a ballet dance, renders are more than enough. Sex, for example, which is a serious of repetitive movement and positions anyone has seen does not need animations.
 

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
9,988
23,111
I would beg to differ on that one. Yes, animations are resource intensive. However, they do add significant value to the game by adding a greater feeling of realism that even the best 3D renders cannot.
Patreons may disagree....most people here on F95 would rather not have them at all if they are badly implemeted and looped.

Again..not getting away (for the second time in as many days) from the actual game...the twirling/kissing animations in this are just so cute that I love them. Theya re also different from the norm in the majority of VN's. For sex scenes...I'd rather just not see them personally (and have a few more renders from diff angles) unless they are done very, very well, which stating facts, most VN's devs aren't capable of, either through a lack of skill or hardware.


Are there any actual sex scenes now? I haven't touched this game in a while.
Yes (Not with our girls)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ayhsel

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
9,988
23,111
Ah, damn. Everytime I see an update on this game, I'm always hopeful it's with the daughters.
Heh why I put the brackets in...I guessed you meant with them heh. (I haven't played 0.09 yet though as waiting for the full release on Friday but be surprised if there is). I'd say give it another couple of updates...but he does update regularly every 6 weeks or so.
 
3.80 star(s) 205 Votes