- Jul 26, 2020
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Unity Some Heroines Climb Up a Tower to Ask God Why the Game Has a Name That's So Long [v2.70] [Sinful Salad Games]
- Thread starter CardinalRed
- Start date
- Nov 9, 2022
- 82
- 157
Not familiar w/ the rules, but is it fine to have an "unofficial" patch thats posted anywhere that isn't patreon, or are you screwed if they find any external connection?
- Jul 26, 2020
- 366
- 919
Hm, that far i do not know, but i remember "Bones Tales: The Manor" having different versions of the same game in multiple platforms to avoid that. I guess it all depends on the devs to judge if it's worth the trouble to add ONE more fetish.
- Apr 7, 2019
- 6
- 13
Whoa another review claiming the game isn’t a roguelike because there’s no progression.
Lots of complimenting art in order to then call the game shit without giving constructive criticism other than "game hard"
Let’s talk about progression and where it does/doesn’t belong but first some quick history:
The original Rogue, where the term Roguelike comes from, is a completely randomized turn based strategy game with NO progression and permadeath.
Now ask yourself, how can a core element of the genre be missing from the game that defined the genre? In my opinion, no, that's ridiculous. That means you'd call Rogue itself not a rogue-like.
Progression was never the point of Rogue and it’s not the point of this game (or lots of other roguelikes) either. The roguelike the devs have stated multiple times inspired them is Enter the Gungeon, and that game also doesn't have power progression
People invented a separate category for games that take the “beat everything in one run” approach but have progression and called those Rogue-lites.
It's easy to gather that they don’t want to make a game that eventually beats itself for people who can’t, and from observing the community they're not going to. The game as it is and even moreso when finished, should be a very short 1-2 hour challenge with lots of side content, surprise events, and variety for people who want more challenge and want to spend more time with the game
You are climbing a tower covered in spikes and spinning blades, if you slip you fall back to the bottom. The tower isn’t there to help you climb it, it won’t magically build you a bit of a ladder every time you fall down. But it’s something you can potentially climb by learning it’s ins and outs, finding which stones are slippery and which are footholds. There is a natural form of progression, it’s called knowledge, and it relies on you learning and adapting to things to make it to the top.
That is the essence of rogue.
That is the appeal of difficulty.
Knowing YOU overcame something through effort and learning and not because the game rewarded you for losing so much that you can win with less and less effort.
Sometimes though it will rain and you can't get your foot on the foothold and you can't climb but that's always been the case with Rogue-likes and Rogue-lites alike especially things like Isaac god forbid
This post isn't me saying this game is perfect, because it's far from it. Just an explanation to why "there's no progression" and "game is hard" or "this game has random elements in it" don't count as constructive criticism when they're entirely unexplained.
If you want to drop some feedback, then please go into some detail.
What abilities are good/bad? What items are good/bad and why? Be specific. I know I deeply loathe Broadhead and think that ability is steaming trash and genuinely a loss of an ability slot or that the sewing needle item is less than worthless and getting one in a treasure chest is the worst punishment for going for a chest drop.
Criticizing in general terms is not critique especially when the general things you are criticizing are core elements of the genre.
Lots of complimenting art in order to then call the game shit without giving constructive criticism other than "game hard"
Let’s talk about progression and where it does/doesn’t belong but first some quick history:
The original Rogue, where the term Roguelike comes from, is a completely randomized turn based strategy game with NO progression and permadeath.
Now ask yourself, how can a core element of the genre be missing from the game that defined the genre? In my opinion, no, that's ridiculous. That means you'd call Rogue itself not a rogue-like.
Progression was never the point of Rogue and it’s not the point of this game (or lots of other roguelikes) either. The roguelike the devs have stated multiple times inspired them is Enter the Gungeon, and that game also doesn't have power progression
People invented a separate category for games that take the “beat everything in one run” approach but have progression and called those Rogue-lites.
It's easy to gather that they don’t want to make a game that eventually beats itself for people who can’t, and from observing the community they're not going to. The game as it is and even moreso when finished, should be a very short 1-2 hour challenge with lots of side content, surprise events, and variety for people who want more challenge and want to spend more time with the game
You are climbing a tower covered in spikes and spinning blades, if you slip you fall back to the bottom. The tower isn’t there to help you climb it, it won’t magically build you a bit of a ladder every time you fall down. But it’s something you can potentially climb by learning it’s ins and outs, finding which stones are slippery and which are footholds. There is a natural form of progression, it’s called knowledge, and it relies on you learning and adapting to things to make it to the top.
That is the essence of rogue.
That is the appeal of difficulty.
Knowing YOU overcame something through effort and learning and not because the game rewarded you for losing so much that you can win with less and less effort.
Sometimes though it will rain and you can't get your foot on the foothold and you can't climb but that's always been the case with Rogue-likes and Rogue-lites alike especially things like Isaac god forbid
This post isn't me saying this game is perfect, because it's far from it. Just an explanation to why "there's no progression" and "game is hard" or "this game has random elements in it" don't count as constructive criticism when they're entirely unexplained.
If you want to drop some feedback, then please go into some detail.
What abilities are good/bad? What items are good/bad and why? Be specific. I know I deeply loathe Broadhead and think that ability is steaming trash and genuinely a loss of an ability slot or that the sewing needle item is less than worthless and getting one in a treasure chest is the worst punishment for going for a chest drop.
Criticizing in general terms is not critique especially when the general things you are criticizing are core elements of the genre.
Yeah, I can't say I was ever thrilled to get the sewing needle. It would probably be worth bothering with if having clothes gave a small bonus to Stamina Def.
EDIT: It does do this and I am dumb and blind.
It's more or less a third health bar we ignore as is, since getting fucked/stunned can give a potential damage bonus.
Would be extra funny if using a sewing needle that would give a character over 100 Clothes Health added more clothes to the character, so one could go beyond the 100 mark. But, that would be impractical sprites wise.
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- Jun 16, 2018
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I made a skills tier list based on my experiences playing the game. This is of course personal opinion, but allow me to explain while also stating which spells I prefer to give each girl.
Skills allow the player to bypass the damage nerf if attacking out of a prefered zone. This makes a lot of zone-based skills comparatively weaker utility wise and usually situational.
Archer's most valuable aspect is her ability to set the field for traps and deal double damage, especially against those in the green field. Her bear traps are by far her best skill and should always be taken above anything else. Most of her other skills are effective secondary skills to deal damage. Rapid Rain and Broadhead are by far her weakest skills, being that the former is RNG dependent and the latter a minor push ability.
In terms of Spells, I feel she is the most useful to be given Net Shot to capture enemies since I depend on her more than the others to deal damage, especially since I stack her with damage upgrades that minimizes the capture spell's -50% base damage. Also an honorable mention to Trick Shot, since I forgot to put it in the Tier List but I'd probably place it in upper C or lower B.
Swordswoman's most useful aspects is pushing enemies back into Archer's and Ninja's zones. Generally speaking, if you're depending on Swordswoman to clear zones, you're likely already in trouble, so taking Power Sweep and Power Thrust is ideal to keep them in Blue and Green zones. Her damage abilities are good for secondary skills if you're unable to reliably push enemies back. Wide Sweep and Vengeful Cry have generally been the bad skills for me, as they're typically situational. But the Showdown skill feels detrimental, as the only move allowed once active is to unlock from your target. This isn't ideal if you need to quickly attack another enemy. In terms of spells, I usually give her Forbidden Gesture or Summon Boulder.
Ninja possibly has the most useful overall utility, being able to pull enemies into one another and dealing damage with Lasso, but also being able to completely stun enemies with Restrain, bosses included. Her Mist Nin-jutsu is also very useful, adding 3 Dodge tokens to a character but is best as a must-have secondary skill. Her least useful skill in my experience is Straw Doll Jutsu, as it deals damage to enemies that are hexed when Ninja is attacked.
Since, in my experience, the Blue Zone is the easiest zone for manipulating enemy placements, Ninja pairs well with the Trumpet of Disarray. This spell prevents enemy reinforcements and should be used as often as possible, and since I rely in Swordswoman to push enemies into the Green zone for Archer, it was the most logical choice.
Skills allow the player to bypass the damage nerf if attacking out of a prefered zone. This makes a lot of zone-based skills comparatively weaker utility wise and usually situational.
Archer's most valuable aspect is her ability to set the field for traps and deal double damage, especially against those in the green field. Her bear traps are by far her best skill and should always be taken above anything else. Most of her other skills are effective secondary skills to deal damage. Rapid Rain and Broadhead are by far her weakest skills, being that the former is RNG dependent and the latter a minor push ability.
In terms of Spells, I feel she is the most useful to be given Net Shot to capture enemies since I depend on her more than the others to deal damage, especially since I stack her with damage upgrades that minimizes the capture spell's -50% base damage. Also an honorable mention to Trick Shot, since I forgot to put it in the Tier List but I'd probably place it in upper C or lower B.
Swordswoman's most useful aspects is pushing enemies back into Archer's and Ninja's zones. Generally speaking, if you're depending on Swordswoman to clear zones, you're likely already in trouble, so taking Power Sweep and Power Thrust is ideal to keep them in Blue and Green zones. Her damage abilities are good for secondary skills if you're unable to reliably push enemies back. Wide Sweep and Vengeful Cry have generally been the bad skills for me, as they're typically situational. But the Showdown skill feels detrimental, as the only move allowed once active is to unlock from your target. This isn't ideal if you need to quickly attack another enemy. In terms of spells, I usually give her Forbidden Gesture or Summon Boulder.
Ninja possibly has the most useful overall utility, being able to pull enemies into one another and dealing damage with Lasso, but also being able to completely stun enemies with Restrain, bosses included. Her Mist Nin-jutsu is also very useful, adding 3 Dodge tokens to a character but is best as a must-have secondary skill. Her least useful skill in my experience is Straw Doll Jutsu, as it deals damage to enemies that are hexed when Ninja is attacked.
Since, in my experience, the Blue Zone is the easiest zone for manipulating enemy placements, Ninja pairs well with the Trumpet of Disarray. This spell prevents enemy reinforcements and should be used as often as possible, and since I rely in Swordswoman to push enemies into the Green zone for Archer, it was the most logical choice.
- Jun 16, 2018
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Thanks for making this feedback I really appreciate it
- Sep 18, 2018
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normally i'd just look at and then move on, but hell nah have you put vengeful cry in D tier
it's the kinda skill that if you have it, you want to try and play around it.
don't just wait to be in a bad spot to use it, look for situations where you can leave enemies alone and prioritize others
use ninja to pull enemies into position
then use it and watch as she clears the entire board
she can even free herself from a grab using it
the rest is honestly reasonable, though straw doll jutsu can be really nice at times
I never managed to use it in moments that would help me, but I'll be honest, I might just be dumb. In general, I focused Swordswoman strictly for zoning while the others did damage, going as far as almost never giving her level ups since damage felt more useful on the other two.
I'm honestly interested in seeing others put up a tier list to see what playstyles they prefer.
- Apr 7, 2019
- 6
- 13
Archer's Concentration is S tier. What people don't know is that it gives 100% crits for the duration, it needs a tooltip update. Since it uses basic attacks it returns some of its own cost as well as doesn't cost any stamina for focused full single target damage across the entire board which is unique to itself.
Vengeful Cry is also S tier.
Both can solo-win games and can even feed into themselves.
Gazer Laser can feed into itself but is weaker and I'd personally put in C. It's a little hard to explain it, just kind of is, since it's highest value comes from you already kind of getting overwhelmed
Missile launch is C or D tier at the moment because it goes away when hitting Floor 2.
Chain Blade Combo is heavily overvalued by most people because of how much it could do but its cost is actually pretty bad for its impact until fairly later on in a run with higher rec stats
I've definitely never properly used Vengeful Cry, I've pretty much hated getting it since before the Spells update, so I've only grabbed it a few times since then. Here is a tier list based off of player feedback.
I wanted to make a public tier list for players to fill out for feedback, but unfortunately, the Tier Maker website explicitly bans content related to porn or sexual references.
- Jun 28, 2017
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Yea, vengful cry is super op, clears entire map and leaves enough sex res to get raped and get the buff right away again, great power
- Jun 28, 2017
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- Apr 7, 2019
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It came to us in a dream.
- Sep 18, 2018
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Yeah, but tbf I've never played a game before where I beat the first level first try without problems, but only up until around my 6th attempt do I actually go on to beat it again lol. I saw the game initially on Itch.io where I didn't see anything about rogue shit, and because I had such an easy time my first playthrough it felt hella annoying having not understood why the RNG felt impossible to deal with. I (and I'm sure many others here) like hard games; just guess I (and others) didn't fully understand the assignment.
It's nice you explained what "roguelike" is, even if I still think the RNG is actual aides (Trongle if you see this btw to honestly make this feel less like aides, just slightly lower the possibility of higher hp enemies depending on the amount of spawned enemies; you can also slightly buff general spawnrate if you want to balance out the nerf. I just think far less of us would be whining if it didn't feel like there were one too many times we'd get lines of slimes/mages just spawning to fuck us)
- Jun 16, 2018
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That won't be happening.
Not because I think you've got bad ideas, but because we've already made alternative solutions in the upcoming update.
Rather than decreasing the difficulty through meddling with enemy spawn rates, I am adding some more tools to help the player strategize more and increase their damage output a bit.
For those unaware, the stat system is getting a big overhaul to make it more interesting. I'm combining the recovery stat with the stamina and mind stats and using that empty 6th stat slot for a new special stat, the new stat will give:
Swordswoman - the ability to increase the amount of spaces her basic attack pushes enemies.
Ninja - will now have a chance to apply a debuff to her basic attack at the beginning of her turn (blind, sleep, or poison) (upgrading her special stat increases the odds of this occuring)
Archer - able to raise her critical hit rate.
Just the new ninja ability alone will increase the damage output of the player by quite a bit and help decrease the amount of enemies able to hit you per turn IF used wisely.
Along with this, we're also adding in an outfit system that will allow the player to customize their starting stats a bit.
Thanks for the feedback though, I noticed this is the first comment you've posted on this site, so i'm happy the game means enough to you to express something about it.
We're still hard at work making the game, and it's not perfect and I agree the RNG can be BAD at times, but we're making things better as we go. With every update the heroines have gotten a little tougher, so by the end i'm thinking we'll be in a good spot.