Others Completed SpacEscape -Chibi Edition- [v0.55] [Urielmanx7]

[DoorFive]

If you wanted my opinion on the comment I would certainly agree with the original statement. At this point it genuinely feels like all hes doing is wasting his time working with the limitations of the game hes trying to make when he could just go for a general art career at this point. If you've ever looked him up on e6 or went to his pixiv he actually has a good art style when it comes to actual pieces but instead wastes his time doing all this flash based tweening for a game that'll literally never go anywhere. Hes had well over 10 years at this point to try and make it come to fruition and despite the simple concept he ran around in circles and progression was at a crawl. Now hes gotta remake everything and learn a new engine and essentially remake the same game for the third time where he'll probably end up running in circles again fixing bugs and remaking old content and having no actual direction to go off of.

Hes a good artist but at this point, hell at the point of 5+ years ago, he really needs someone else who knows what they're doing to do the coding for him. Between making sprites, coding the game, making art on the side, and making animations and pictures that have nothing to do with the game itself but are related (the chibi art that has no intention of being in the game) his time and efforts are just spread so thin that I genuinely don't have much hope for this project since he seems more content making random chibi animations than actual progress.

Hes a good artist, hes a terrible game maker. It really is just that simple.

See, that's a response I can grasp instead of someone making bold claims. I see where you're at now.
Naw - yeah, you're pretty well correct. In that respect he is a better artist than a game maker. On the lazy side as he often gets sidetracked by video games (who doesn't? ) But taking all this time is one of his fatal flaws I must admit, otherwise I would not be a true fan.

I was mostly going by his previous work of SpacEscape and how rounded the platforming and feel of the game was. It does have it's merits, but I suppose that is now in the past. He's proven he's made a game before and I am hoping for that same success.

 

[GreyRaccoon]

instead of someone making bold claims.

There is nothing "bold" in the idea that someone is better at art rather than game design/coding.

 

[DoorFive]

There is nothing "bold" in the idea that someone is better at art rather than game design/coding.

No, but it is bold to be condescending.

 

[edgartheslayer]

No, but it is bold to be condescending.

I didn't read all of his text but if you're implying that it was condescending to say so, I fail to see how his first message is condescending. The spacEscape games he made are very basic and the first one was probably as trial-and-error'ish as chibi with many janks and bugs at early releases. You don't need to be a "great game maker" to make great porn games or to be a "great porn game maker", they are not supposed to be great games. They could, but taking itself too seriously will miss the point, to it's very tricky. He said nothing wrong from what we can tell of the games, regardless of his own skill. You don't need to be a chief yourself, to tell that another chief's food isn't as good as another's.

I find that an artists skills correlate with game making on a graphic level.

There is absolutely no correlation between game making and being skilled at art. If you're a good artist and learning programming, it's just going to be 2 different skills that you can apply to your product by yourself. I'm not sure what you mean 'on a graphic level', but it's at least easier to transfer your vision on how the game should look and feel yourself, than relying on someone else, for sure.

 

[DoorFive]

There is absolutely no correlation between game making and being skilled at art.

if the game involves graphics, then yes it does. game making involves a whole lot besides coding. Art, music, literature, it's a triple threat.
Now something like a text adventure, then no.

I didn't read all of his text but if you're implying that it was condescending to say so, I fail to see how his first message is condescending.

Being high and mighty doesn't sound condescending to you?
Let me put it this way:
Person A is a good lover and better at washing dishes. Person B says Person A is definitely better at washing dishes than being a lover.
Does it not imply that person A is detrimental at love making?

 

[edgartheslayer]

if the game involves graphics, then yes it does. game making involves a whole lot besides coding. Art, music, literature, it's a triple threat.
Now something like a text adventure, then no.

I disagree. Making a game is about using your knowledge about the platform you're using to create the product, which may or may not involve coding, understanding of navigation and function implementation in said platform, sense of balance or whatever you are going for with your game.

Being a good artist means having a good imagination and the ability to somehow express it with artistic merit. You'd not be wrong to call game making 'art'. But being a good music artist has nothing to do with being a good graphical artist, because the form of expression they take are absolutely different. Being a good artist in general might create some correlation between his skills, because the person can generally be good at expressing himself, but it's going to be minimal, because the skills themselves are very different. And game making couldn't be more different from graphical, musical or literature(writing) design.
That's like saying if you're intelligent, you'll have a good memory and great at finding patterns. Those are just aspects of intelligence. They are very different and people can be godlike at one thing but very poor at the other. Same here. What? You think being experienced in using software is going to create a correlation between making a game and creating art to implement there? Don't make me laugh.

Being high and mighty doesn't sound condescending to you?
Let me put it this way:
Person A is a good lover and better at washing dishes. Person B says Person A is definitely better at washing dishes than being a lover.
Does it not imply that person A is detrimental at love making?

No. And why does he sound high and mighty to you? I see where you're coming from, like saying "he's definitely better at Y than X" is supposed to imply that he's bad at X or the guy replying was necessarily better himself. That's not the first thing that comes to my mind. He could still be good or great at X, but be that much better at Y, while not disregarding that he might be bad at Y and worse at X. I think it boils down to personal insecurities and experience when it comes to perception of these things. Maybe every time someone said to you that "someone is definitely better at Y than X" they always implied that they are necessarily better at X or Y themselves. I don't know what's your problem, but this is my take and I think you are faulty to jump to conclusions.

Even if he was trying to be condescending, like... good for him, maybe he knows better. Who cares?

 

[DoorFive]

I disagree. Making a game is about using your knowledge about the platform you're using to create the product, which may or may not involve coding, understanding of navigation and function implementation in said platform, sense of balance or whatever you are going for with your game.

Being a good artist means having a good imagination and the ability to somehow express it with artistic merit. You'd not be wrong to call game making 'art'. But being a good music artist has nothing to do with being a good graphical artist, because the form of expression they take are absolutely different. Being a good artist in general might create some correlation between his skills, because the person can generally be good at expressing himself, but it's going to be minimal, because the skills themselves are very different. And game making couldn't be more different from graphical, musical or literature(writing) design.
That's like saying if you're intelligent, you'll have a good memory and great at finding patterns. Those are just aspects of intelligence. They are very different and people can be godlike at one thing but very poor at the other. Same here. What? You think being experienced in using software is going to create a correlation between making a game and creating art to implement there? Don't make me laugh.
Even if he was trying to be condescending, like... good for him, maybe he knows better. Who cares?

The art department of a game has to closely work with their coders to assure a game functions the way it's suppose too. Not only mechanically, but also visually. 3D models in Skyrim, these things require bones and structures for the coders to work with. In this Chibi game, there are layers of parts that come together that require assembly to work.
Even music and writing, it's all a part of the game making process. Skyrim's music takes part by working with the lead developer to ensure that when you go into battle, you know it because it's been coded that way.
Codeing takes a back seat in things, it's all under the hood of a car. Where as the sound and art could be considered the chassis. It's all a part of game making. Without it, Skyrim would just be...well, you wouldn't even be able to navigate the world normally because there would be no visuals.

No. And why does he sound high and mighty to you?

He didn't even explain himself. That was the main thing. If somebody called me a maggot, I'd like to know why. Just going around and calling people names. Sounds like they are on a high horse too me. Sounds like they don't appreciate the work put into the game.

Even if he was trying to be condescending, like... good for him, maybe he knows better. Who cares?

Maybe he does know better. But spouting off things just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[edgartheslayer]

The art department of a game has to closely work with their coders to assure a game functions the way it's suppose too. Not only mechanically, but also visually. 3D models in Skyrim, these things require bones and structures for the coders to work with. In this Chibi game, there are layers of parts that come together that require assembly to work.
Even music and writing, it's all a part of the game making process. Skyrim's music takes part by working with the lead developer to ensure that when you go into battle, you know it because it's been coded that way.
Codeing takes a back seat in things, it's all under the hood of a car. Where as the sound and art could be considered the chassis. It's all a part of game making. Without it, Skyrim would just be...well, you wouldn't even be able to navigate the world normally because there would be no visuals.

But the art department is it's own separate thing, most of the time consisting of entirely different people with different set of skills. So all you said is that a game has visuals, sound/music. What you're trying to say is that there's correlation in paper production vs artists drawing on it, because a piece of paper is part of the end result. ???Bruh???

I can give you an example with correlation. There's correlation between the wood production market and door making market. Companies benefit from selling wooden doors, so they need wood. So WOOD companies that produce wooden materials are going to benefit from selling the DOOR company their wood. So there's correlation between them, because they rely on each other. But I'm talking about the market, not a correlation between actually literally making doors VS actually literally chopping wood and producing materials from it. There is 0 correlation there.

I can come to my own conclusion, and maybe this is what you were going for but I can't quite grasp it from your text, that if you're your own artist and programmer, then making a game is going to be easier with the art department, because you don't need to explain anyone anything, since you can directly 'implement' your art into your game. None of this proves the existence of correlation in game making and being an artist, when one person is working on a project. You can be a great artist using certain software or IRL tools, but learning to use a game-making platform is going to be as hard as if you had 0 artistic skills, and vice versa.

A good game does not have to have good graphics, sound or writing. You can make a game with a primitive/retro style of graphics and it will still be a great game. Better than most games with modern graphics. The only thing that is always necessary for making a game - is coding it to work properly, balance, lack of bugs, compatibility and whatever it takes to be pleasant to experience. Everything else only needs to subjectively fit the style.

He didn't even explain himself. That was the main thing. If somebody called me a maggot, I'd like to know why. Just going around and calling people names. Sounds like they are on a high horse too me. Sounds like they don't appreciate the work put into the game.

Exactly, he didn't explain himself. Factually, all he did was express his opinion that Uriel is better at art than at programming(in the context of making games). Nothing more. It was you, who perceived his message as downplaying. It was you, who brought a negative context to his message from your own mind. You created this negativity from jumping to conclusions. Why? Why did you assume that? Why did you jump to those conclusions? Why can't you perceive a comment for what it is, rather than making things up, because of a frame of reference in a comment? Are you from twitter? all implications intended.

Maybe he does know better. But spouting off things just because you can, doesn't mean you should

Everyone's free to express themselves. This is partially why this forum is here. He's not pushing his opinion on UrielManX7 without being asked. This is a public place for everyone to write what they want as long as they are following the rules. "should"? well who's going to stop them? It's not like he wrote straight up misinformation or trolling. That would be a reason to discredit him. But that didn't happen. When I read his message, it did not seem like he was saying that Uriel is a bad game dev. Maybe he's actually an impatient fanboy that wants Uriel to speed up his progress.

 

[DoorFive]

...

Just forget I even said anything. I hardly read all that anyway. Let's just agree to disagree, yeah?

Post Edit: I don't get the Twitter thing. Never used it.

 

[edgartheslayer]

Just forget I even said anything. I hardly read all that anyway. Let's just agree to disagree, yeah?

Post Edit: I don't get the Twitter thing. Never used it.

Me neither. From what I know, twittwat is just renown for it's toxicity. You can't post anything without risking a big group of snowflakes, manchildren and representatives of various minorities taking what you said out of context in the most absurd way possible just to make another victim for cancellation. So similarly, but with less steroids, you took a comment and assumed negative implications out of nowhere. And I'm not criticizing you for it. I'm merely trying to discuss your perception.

Along side the correlation thing. Do what you want mate

 

[DoorFive]

Me neither. From what I know, twittwat is just renown for it's toxicity. You can't post anything without risking a big group of snowflakes, manchildren and representatives of various minorities taking what you said out of context in the most absurd way possible just to make another victim for cancellation. So similarly, but with less steroids, you took a comment and assumed negative implications out of nowhere. And I'm not criticizing you for it. I'm merely trying to discuss your perception.

Along side the correlation thing. Do what you want mate

Whatever makes you happiest dude.

 

[DoorFive]

Anyway! There are far more important matters to attend to. Such as GIFs!

Don't let the gangbangs fool you. Those were just for screwing around. Uriel has expressed that there will be no gangbangs in game.

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Walking in/out of doors animations

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Question: Would you all rather have these images as a thumbnail, or full image like they are now?
Edit: spoilers added

 

[laugh]

Question: Would you all rather have these images as a thumbnail, or full image like they are now?

id prefer them under a spoiler tag personally

 

[DoorFive]

id prefer them under a spoiler tag personally

Good call! I forgot that was a thing.

 

[BigJohnny]

Don't let the gangbangs fool you. Those were just for screwing around. Uriel has expressed that there will be no gangbangs in game.

That's a shame.

 

[Jane 'Goatbutt' Doe]

Anyway! There are far more important matters to attend to. Such as GIFs!

Don't let the gangbangs fool you. Those were just for screwing around. Uriel has expressed that there will be no gangbangs in game.

A shame, that would have been really neat. But why oh why is there a Futa version now? I had hoped this game stays free of that...

 

[ViviX12]

A shame, that would have been really neat. But why oh why is there a Futa version now? I had hoped this game stays free of that...

in game it's gonna be optional so you have nothing to complain about

 

[DoorFive]

A shame, that would have been really neat. But why oh why is there a Futa version now? I had hoped this game stays free of that...

It's like ViviX12 said, it will be optional with the "Lollipop" mode.
Personally, I prefer non-futa on my tit bearing women, But...somehow, (Chibi) Mitsuko pulls the futa look off well in my opinion.

 

[Lerial]

if the game involves graphics, then yes it does. game making involves a whole lot besides coding. Art, music, literature, it's a triple threat.
Now something like a text adventure, then no.


Being high and mighty doesn't sound condescending to you?
Let me put it this way:
Person A is a good lover and better at washing dishes. Person B says Person A is definitely better at washing dishes than being a lover.
Does it not imply that person A is detrimental at love making?

no.

if, for example, i compare usain bolt with another sprinter, usain bolt might be better than him.
but that other sprinter could be, i dunno, still better than 99.999% of the rest of the people on the entire planet.
in a direct one to one comparison, sure, the latter might be worse off, but that doesn't mean it's outright 'bad'.
X is better than Y, doesn't automatically mean Y is bad, especially to the degree of 'detrimental'.
especially if what was being done is to praise X. comparing it to Y is not meant as an insult, or represent how bad Y is. Y's basically just a reference.

now, that's not to say it never CAN be. but it doesn't automatically imply it, either. your example LITERALLY said she's a good lover, but a better dishwasher. which means, it's not even a condescending remark, it's just 'true' within your example. you also said 'good' lover. as in, she's good at being a lover, not detrimental, just because she might be REALLY good at washing dishes.

also, making a basic observation/sharing an opinion, doesn't also make someone 'high and mighty' or condescending.

it's kinda obvious uriel has issues making games. he spent what, at least 5 years, on a game that had minimal content for the whole 5 years, very little development, then basically scrapped the entire project, and for something like 3 years, still doesn't have something to show for it.
yet other devs can put out more content in 1-2 months... i'm not dissing him or anything, i like his work and whatnot, but it's not even really an opinion at this point.

it's not condescending to see there seems to be an issue with that.

Maybe he does know better. But spouting off things just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

true. but expecting people not to, well, have you met people? they don't usually do that. they express themselves. especially in places like forums, where getting together to talk about stuff is well, kinda the point.
let's be honest, it's not about him saying stuff, it's that he apparently offended you.

 

[DoorFive]

no.

if, for example, i compare usain bolt with another sprinter, usain bolt might be better than him.
but that other sprinter could be, i dunno, still better than 99.999% of the rest of the people on the entire planet.
in a direct one to one comparison, sure, the latter might be worse off, but that doesn't mean it's outright 'bad'.
X is better than Y, doesn't automatically mean Y is bad, especially to the degree of 'detrimental'.
especially if what was being done is to praise X. comparing it to Y is not meant as an insult, or represent how bad Y is. Y's basically just a reference.

now, that's not to say it never CAN be. but it doesn't automatically imply it, either. your example LITERALLY said she's a good lover, but a better dishwasher. which means, it's not even a condescending remark, it's just 'true' within your example. you also said 'good' lover. as in, she's good at being a lover, not detrimental, just because she might be REALLY good at washing dishes.

also, making a basic observation/sharing an opinion, doesn't also make someone 'high and mighty' or condescending.

it's kinda obvious uriel has issues making games. he spent what, at least 5 years, on a game that had minimal content for the whole 5 years, very little development, then basically scrapped the entire project, and for something like 3 years, still doesn't have something to show for it.
yet other devs can put out more content in 1-2 months... i'm not dissing him or anything, i like his work and whatnot, but it's not even really an opinion at this point.

it's not condescending to see there seems to be an issue with that.


true. but expecting people not to, well, have you met people? they don't usually do that. they express themselves. especially in places like forums, where getting together to talk about stuff is well, kinda the point.
let's be honest, it's not about him saying stuff, it's that he apparently offended you.

Someone got in the mood to argue. Well, I'm not gonna give you what you want. Find it somewhere else.
Bringing shit up that's already past...ffs
If you want to fight an injustice, go ahead, be my guest. In case you didn't know, this is the INTERNET. GASP! Someone was called bold and condescending!
For real? Is that riling you up so much? You are aware people will say what's on their minds, right?
It's a forum where opinions will be far flung. Get over it.

Edit: Look, I was harsh, sure. and I apologize for that. But you are calling the kettle black. You say people will express themselves. but it's not fine for me to express myself? Look, Again, I'm sorry for what I said.