Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

Thanks to this thread, I picked up The End of an Actress and oh dear, did I like it.

I'm glad you liked it! While I have my favourite ending, what I like most is the ending that doesn't exist The story is stronger for it.

 

[Bombmaster]

Oh, sorry... My bad then... I think it's just what may happen when an external observer stumbles upon a group of like-minded people talking about things they don't like and overinterprets it as if they were talking about something universal. And I can say I agree with most of the critiques; it's just the positive standards I feel are sometimes contradictory even by the criteria used here to criticize other games.

About the second topic, I think you got the wrong impression. I even said the games I play here are not for fapping intentions but just for entertainment (again, nothing against it, but, for my personal tastes, I feel the scenes are somewhat lacking and serve as appetizers at best). Even serious movies, books, or other media can have sex scenes, but, if they're plot-oriented, those scenes are shown only to the extent they serve the plot. Only genre movies deviate from the plot or overextend scenes: comedies depart from the plot to make people laugh; action and fight movies overextend action/fight scenes to let people in awe (or whatever they feel about those scenes); and porn movies overextend sex scenes to make people excited or fap. So yeah... I may have passed the wrong impression that I am against sex scenes, but that's not the case... It's just when I'm analyzing some story as art I tend to criticize what is called "fat" in the script -- but just for aesthetic reasons... No morality in play here.

About the third topic, now you got the wrong impression... I never thought you only liked things with sex in it. Sorry if I made you think so. I agree some AVNs would be more interesting without sex scenes. I was thinking about the first part of Fashion Business, which could be a very interesting story about the inevitability of certain situations, like a Greek tragedy, but with a claustrophobic Kafkian tone. Besides having a "good ending", which I would cut out completely for it to be a real tragedy, I would erase all the sex scenes because they seem to be there just for fan service and for the game to be sold as an adult novel -- they add nothing to the plot... They're not even part of the plot (except, of course, Monica's scenes in the prison, which are mostly nudity but serve the claustrophobic situation... Even the grinding has a purpose in that game! Adding to the despair!) About Fight Club... Well... For aesthetic reasons, I think making that scene graphic would be bad... But even if we say this is relative, we have to agree it would completely change the mood of the movie.

B.T.W., I really liked this game Nothing Is Forever and I got the recommendation here (I don't know if it was you... If it was, thanks; if not, thanks to whoever recommended it).

Nothing Is Forever

Spoiler: spice take

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[bacienvu88]

I'm not sure what we are arguing about anymore so I'll keep this short.

Even serious movies, books, or other media can have sex scenes, but, if they're plot-oriented, those scenes are shown only to the extent they serve the plot.

This is the essence of this thread really. Here we want the sex scenes to serve the plot rather than the plot serving the sex scenes.

B.T.W., I really liked this game Nothing Is Forever and I got the recommendation here (I don't know if it was you... If it was, thanks; if not, thanks to whoever recommended it).

Could have been anybody really. We tend to discuss it fairly often here.

 

[Raife]

I wouldn't say this about everybody here, but sometimes a catch some prejudiced comment about those who don't like the purportedly story-rich games. The fact someone like some kind of game *here* doesn't mean he or she doesn't like more meaningful, insightful, or philosophical things somewhere else.

I understand, absolutely, why that misperception might have occurred -- but I don't believe any of the regulars on this thread look down on anyone who enjoys different genres of AVNs, or pure porn games, or any particular kink. Not least because we _also_ like all of these things. It's just not so. If I've made you feel otherwise, I apologize.

What I _do_ dislike is players who badger devs to abandon their narratives, distort their characterisations, and contort their visions to suit the player's preferences and strongly held views. Expressing an opinion is fine -- badgering devs is not. I don't think that's appropriate behaviour in life, or on the internet... and I particularly dislike such vehement abuse when it is heaped on devs, like sqwl, who are pursuing really unusual visions for their games.

 

[Raife]

I'm not sure these are the right descriptors. To me story-first seems less about content and more about structure. If we're honest for a moment, many of the "best" games that get recommended here would probably be YA, if not for the porny bits. They aren't really educational or have a message or something like that.

Yes, but one clarification: jufot, that gormless pleb, is the YA in space afficianado, whereas _I_ -- a true child of the purple -- prefer YA plots set in American-esque colleges. A better class of YA, if you will -- the kind of YA that Alistair Cooke would have introduced with aplomb in his heyday, if YA had been a thing back then.

 

[realjitter]

So, another dev that has quit due to the spam of the anti-ntr crowd. New update of The Curse of Joy seems to have triggered this. I have no idea if it is a good game or what the perceived issue is and I can't be bothered crawling the thread. Just sad that devs can't just get peace to develop their game.

Did you read it yet?. If not you should because you'd never believe me if i would spoil the outragous NTR scene that happens in that game... Shame on the developer btw. Now i know what the no NTR crowd is on about when they're requesting NTR free games...

Alright, i'm gonna spoil it anyways

Spoiler: Proceed with caution! Not for the faint of heart!

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It has to be this particular scene because there are no other guys in the game or any lesbian stuff or something... Yeah, that's just crazy if you ask me...

But speaking of crazy.. This game itself feels like the developer took some shrooms and just said "Fuck it, let's make an AVN". They drop lines like "Don't go all holocaust on me" and such.. And that's the harmless stuff.

Spoiler: I'm not making this up

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Game left me kinda speechless. I had tears in my eyes from laughing during the whole bathroom scene which leads to a pretty well made, but nonsensical, lewd scene. I mean, maybe the game didn't want to take itself too seriously and I just didn't get it?. It's possible, but I like my shrooms theory better...

 

[Dragon59]

Oh! But indeed I do! Call me a weirdo, but I play those games just for entertainment! For fapping, I still prefer old porn. Not only better "animations", but, you know... I'm a very auditory guy, and the sound of most AVNs is quite bad... But I have no prejudice... For those who get excited with those narratives, have fun! Go for it!

But that's the point. No prejudice... Because if you say you're taste is more refined than the one of another group, someone can come and point that what you're looking for is not that far from the lowest-bro either... But if you have an attitude like "to each his own! Let's all have fun with what we like", no one can criticize you...

Don't get me wrong... As I said, I'm one of those weirdos who prefer AVNs (in the broader sense) that are sandboxed, with more game mechanics, like free-roams, point and click, management, and so on... And sometime I get pissed off, like, "why those motherfuckers like those shitty novels with verborragic badly-written dialogues!" But that's it... That's what people like... I can't do nothing about it... Just hope for some crazy developers go against the grain and do a sandbox game for me and my fellow brothers-in-taste.

And I know sex is part of human relationships, but in serious movies, they edit the sex scenes or do something more stylized because you just need to understand people had sex; you don't need to actually see it. It's completely irrelevant to the plot. Only in exploitative films -- the ones I liked to watch as a kid because there was no Internet (and even then I knew they were bad... I was just happy to see some tits'n'ass) -- they show more than necessery for "fan service". Picture the sex scene in Fight Club... Imagine if it were graphic and explicit... IMHO, it would be completely awkward...

In another thread, we are talking about explicit sex in mainstream movies...outside of the US. I mentioned France. Another brought up Scandinavian filmmakers. In the US, the most recent ones are many years old, like Shortbus and Lie With Me. Was 9 Songs made in the US?

You know... I like other games too, and one series I like is Fallout. One day I thought: "oh! It would be cool if the characters actually fucked!" I installed a mod and, voilá, everybody started fucking... It was fun for a week... It was completely useless to the ludonarrative...

I'm reminded of the mods to Stardew Valley.

But, as I said... To each his own.. If someone can get something positive out of something, go for it! Just don't think it's better than any other taste unless that one is ready to engage in a debate about art theory...

And Kathy Rain is indeed quite cool. I'm planning to play the last game from the same creators, Whisper of a Machine, in the following days.

I should looking into those.

 

[moskyx]

Did you read it yet?. If not you should because you'd never believe me if i would spoil the outragous NTR scene that happens in that game... Shame on the developer btw. Now i know what the no NTR crowd is on about when they're requesting NTR free games...

Alright, i'm gonna spoil it anyways

Spoiler: Proceed with caution! Not for the faint of heart!

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It has to be this particular scene because there are no other guys in the game or any lesbian stuff or something... Yeah, that's just crazy if you ask me...

But speaking of crazy.. This game itself feels like the developer took some shrooms and just said "Fuck it, let's make an AVN". They drop lines like "Don't go all holocaust on me" and such.. And that's the harmless stuff.

Spoiler: I'm not making this up

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Game left me kinda speechless. I had tears in my eyes from laughing during the whole bathroom scene which leads to a pretty well made, but nonsensical, lewd scene. I mean, maybe the game didn't want to take itself too seriously and I just didn't get it?. It's possible, but I like my shrooms theory better...

Well, I did read the last comments in the thread and, in all fairness, it seems that a new writer jumped in and suggested including a rape scene as 'emotional baggage' for some LI, and that triggered the last reaction that eventually led to the game being abandoned. The whole project looked way off rails anyway.

 

[bacienvu88]

Did you read it yet?. If not you should because you'd never believe me if i would spoil the outragous NTR scene that happens in that game... Shame on the developer btw. Now i know what the no NTR crowd is on about when they're requesting NTR free games...

Alright, i'm gonna spoil it anyways

Spoiler: Proceed with caution! Not for the faint of heart!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

It has to be this particular scene because there are no other guys in the game or any lesbian stuff or something... Yeah, that's just crazy if you ask me...

But speaking of crazy.. This game itself feels like the developer took some shrooms and just said "Fuck it, let's make an AVN". They drop lines like "Don't go all holocaust on me" and such.. And that's the harmless stuff.

Spoiler: I'm not making this up

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Game left me kinda speechless. I had tears in my eyes from laughing during the whole bathroom scene which leads to a pretty well made, but nonsensical, lewd scene. I mean, maybe the game didn't want to take itself too seriously and I just didn't get it?. It's possible, but I like my shrooms theory better...

That sounds like it could be so hilariously bad that it is awesome. Now I have to play it I guess.

 

[jufot]

Was 9 Songs made in the US?

It's British. Explicit, unsimulated sex in mainstream American film was always more pornographic than artistic, and even that stopped being a thing when the "Golden Age of Porn" ended in the mid-80s.

 

[Raife]

It's British. Explicit, unsimulated sex in mainstream American film was always more pornographic than artistic, and even that stopped being a thing when the "Golden Age of Porn" ended in the mid-80s.

Exactly. Not coincidentally, I'm one of those annoying people who think the last truly great decade for American film was in the 1970s. The golden age of American TV is now... or rather, it began about 20 years ago and might be persisting (although it looks a bit frayed around the edges).

 

[Dragon59]

It's British. Explicit, unsimulated sex in mainstream American film was always more pornographic than artistic, and even that stopped being a thing when the "Golden Age of Porn" ended in the mid-80s.

Then that leaves Shortbus (2006) as the only one I know of this century.

Yes, during the "Golden Age," the filmmakers hoped they were ushering in an era where explicit sex could be part of mainstream movies.

 

[Raife]

So, if I get this right:

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vs

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?

Basically.

I'm just like jufot -- but more annoying, psudo-elitist and think I'm 'better' than he is overall. Just like most American garage punk bands from the 1980s... who thought they were The Clash, but were actually just jumped-up college frat bands.

 

[realjitter]

suggested including a rape scene as 'emotional baggage' for some LI

Alright, that would make much more sense. I wouldn't want such scene either

Now I have to play it I guess.

It's worth it for all the talk about europeans alone in my opinion . Also, you have to play around with all the options during the bathroom scene near the end. It's pure gold

 

[Jamie)]

https://f95zone.to/threads/love-of-magic-book-3-0-3-21c-droid-productions.41188/

 

[Dragon59]

https://f95zone.to/threads/love-of-magic-book-3-0-3-21c-droid-productions.41188/

I need to give that one another try. I was so distracted by all the games I was playing then that this one fell by the wayside.

 

[bacienvu88]

I need to give that one another try. I was so distracted by all the games I was playing then that this one fell by the wayside.

It is pretty great although it is porny to some extent. This is a game where all sex could be removed without any major consequences to the plot. I am waiting for book 3 to be finished before I do another playthrough.

 

[bacienvu88]

But speaking of crazy.. This game itself feels like the developer took some shrooms and just said "Fuck it, let's make an AVN". They drop lines like "Don't go all holocaust on me" and such.. And that's the harmless stuff.

Spoiler: I'm not making this up

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Game left me kinda speechless. I had tears in my eyes from laughing during the whole bathroom scene which leads to a pretty well made, but nonsensical, lewd scene. I mean, maybe the game didn't want to take itself too seriously and I just didn't get it?. It's possible, but I like my shrooms theory better...

Wow. That is one trippy game. Weird, nonsensical, disgusting and hilarious. All at the same time. Can't decide if I'm relieved there is not going to be more or if I for some morbid reason want to know where this would have gone.

Speaking of trippy, someone should make an AVN version of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

 

[Cskin Games]

This I completely agree... I was in some thread of a game I don't even remember which one was, and somebody posted: "another sandbox game... I'm out...", and I was, like, "who cares about your opinion, dude..." But that's bad because it discourage developers to do what they like...

As a dev who has very occasionally dealt with some of this shit (Although thankfully not to the level that some have had to) - something like "another sandbox, I'm out" is fine. It's w/e. People are entitled to their opinions. It's just like some people "prefer" the type of games talked about here, and some only want to play college days harem fuckfests. It's fine to have different opinions.


The problem is when the person comes in, says "Another sandbox? What a piece of shit dev. I hate sandbox games. You need to change it right now, and get rid of the sandbox." And then they go tell their group of sandbox haters, and dozens of people descend on the dev badgering them that they are creating a piece of shit game, the dev is a piece of shit, and they should change the game right now because sandbox games suck and only loser pieces of shit create them. (Replace sandbox with some other stuff, and yes, this happens. Regularly.)


Someone posting that they don't like something, no one really cares about. But many times it devolves into outright harassment - between posts here, DMs to the dev, posts on other sites/discords, review bombing, all of these things happen, and probably more often than you think. It's unfortunate that people have to deal with that, but it is what it is I guess.

 

[Dragon59]

There's a list

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(not only American, but of all movies with unsimulated sex). But, honestly, I never saw one of those that I thought was that good... Of the French ones, I saw those two Catherine Breillat movies with Rocco, and didn't like... Sleeping Beauty is a li'l better, but there's no sex, only nudity. Couldn't even bother to watch the Von Trier's movies, because I think he's boring and pretentious. The last Larry Clark --

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-- movie is American, but I don't like him. I think he's one the worst and most overrated directors and autheurs ever. And there's

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, also American. That one I liked better, but nothing outstanding... The story is quite trivial... I think I enjoyed because I was really fond of Stella Maeve. There's also

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which was quite talked about during it's release, but I think it's awful... There are other American movies on the list; mostly, independent. Didn't see this Shortbus... I really love Mitchell's Hedwig and the Angry Inch, but I've never seen anything else by him.

I had almost forgotten brown bunny. Terrible movie, terrible blowjob scene as well.

And I remembered I spent about one month playing The Sims with a sex mod; and not only that, another mod that allowed you to grow hemp and buy and sell drugs. I got rich, build a two store house, with a discotheque on the 2nd floor and a dungeon in the basement. I used to throw parties with orgies. It was fun for about three weeks. Then I got bored and started a family... I got even more bored and quit...

Yeah, it gets old real quick for many.