Recommending Story-first games

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Deleted member 2577953

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I don't know about you - but any day I get less than "X amount" of work done, I FEEL like I'm milking people's money - so I generally always do at least "X amount".
I've been burnt and betrayed by bad luck (and some incompatible partners) far too many times to push myself any more than the absolute necessary amount.

To make up for it, I'm always transparent as fuck about almost every crucial step of the development plans, my thought process behind it, and any failures/missteps during production.

So, (since I know I'm doing the best I can and that I have been very transparent about my plans) I never feel bad about my production speed.

But speaking for myself, and at least a handful of devs I've spoken to before - I often end up working more than I "should" because I feel like I'm milking people if I don't - and I'm not even being accused of it.
I'm sorry that you (and others) feel that way.

All I can say is, I've been there in the past, so I understand where you're coming from. But still, try to ignore the "overwork demon" whispering its nonsense in your ears.
 
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Éama

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Apr 17, 2022
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I'm pretty sure that no Patron has ever complained about milking. A Patron would just stop paying. The vast, vast, vast majority of complainers have never done a single thing to support the dev, and now they're actively trying to hurt the dev through convincing their Patrons to leave.
You have to be a bit careful with statements like this because it stems from an echo chamber we have in this thread and the wider community around it. The thing is that you and many other devs in this thread are reputable enough so that this doesn't become a theme. I have/had supported several devs where patrons have become very cynical, scornful and hostile because a developer missed several deadlines, was known to have extremely slow development speed or didn't meet the expectations of the audience. I think your statement means that you have acquired followers and supporters who are patient and supportive rather than pressuring and abusive, which is nice to see. But it's not the same experience for every dev.
 

Tlaero

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Nov 24, 2018
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You have to be a bit careful with statements like this because it stems from an echo chamber we have in this thread and the wider community around it. The thing is that you and many other devs in this thread are reputable enough so that this doesn't become a theme. I have/had supported several devs where patrons have become very cynical, scornful and hostile because a developer missed several deadlines, was known to have extremely slow development speed or didn't meet the expectations of the audience. I think your statement means that you have acquired followers and supporters who are patient and supportive rather than pressuring and abusive, which is nice to see. But it's not the same experience for every dev.
What I'm trying to say is that, if a Patron doesn't like a dev's progress, they have a far more effective way to make their dissatisfaction known than crying, "Milker" on an F95 thread.

They stop paying.

People crying "MILK!" do nothing to improve any situation. But Patrons have some actual influence (maybe not a lot, but some). And, in my experience, there's not a lot of overlap between Patrons and people who call devs Milkers. Life's too short to waste trying to convince a dev's fans that they're being cheated. People who support bad devs should just stop doing so and move on.

Tlaero
 

Sidartha_6

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Apr 6, 2021
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What I'm trying to say is that, if a Patron doesn't like a dev's progress, they have a far more effective way to make their dissatisfaction known than crying, "Milker" on an F95 thread.

They stop paying.

People crying "MILK!" do nothing to improve any situation. But Patrons have some actual influence (maybe not a lot, but some). And, in my experience, there's not a lot of overlap between Patrons and people who call devs Milkers. Life's too short to waste trying to convince a dev's fans that they're being cheated. People who support bad devs should just stop doing so and move on.

Tlaero
That's true but it's not always i stop (or lower) paying because there is something wrong with the game or the producer. Some times i have to choose where the money flow goes. It can be a new promising game or less flow to my own income... ;)
 

BlackMoon55

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Apr 18, 2017
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[...]
People crying "MILK!" do nothing to improve any situation. But Patrons have some actual influence (maybe not a lot, but some). And, in my experience, there's not a lot of overlap between Patrons and people who call devs Milkers [...]
True that ... and I would also like to add that constantly crying "milker" is a way of auto-convincing and auto-justifing that you are very right not supporting anything but instead play for free
 

Tlaero

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Nov 24, 2018
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That's true but it's not always i stop (or lower) paying because there is something wrong with the game or the producer. Some times i have to choose where the money flow goes. It can be a new promising game or less flow to my own income... ;)
Yeah. I assume that if a Patron is decreasing payment because of something I did, or didn't do, they'll tell me in a DM. Most of the time it's because they've paid as much as they're comfortable paying. That's cool. Every bit of patronage is a gift. One that I don't take lightly.

Tlaero
 

camube

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Jun 4, 2022
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Personally, the "milker" accusation is the one thing I've learnt to completely ignore when checking out the reception for the games I like.

Simply because, contrary to the loud protests about slow production, and the frequent name calling of "lazy" devs, those who actually support the games have proven time and again that they're very patient and trusting.

If you've proven your game is worth their attention, they will support you irrespective of how other see your work.

So, (while I understand it's not easy to ignore unwarranted hate/critcism), I'd actually recommend not paying too much attention to comments that are unnecessarily twitchy about milking.

---

(Note: Of course, I'm not saying there aren't any devs who abuse the trust of their supporters, but the milker label being thrown at everyone and their grandmothers these days is just plain hilarious.)
yeah people that pay for patreons wouldn't really care about milking, if they do, they just won't pay in the first place, or stop paying

as much as i like to play Summer Heat, i'm not gonna pay for it given how long the development process is and how atrocious the pacing is (the worst part).
on the other side, i don't care if Arson Betrayal or Seeking Closure takes their time to release per update, i don't even check patreon that much
they can take their time i don't really care

yeah those who say "milking" probably doesn't pay
though i can see ex-payers is probably comment like that too

there is 1 dev i'm still subscribed on patreon that has very few update posts combined with extremely spotty release time that gets me a bit annoyed.
How hard is it to post patron updates if your game release takes along time and you have little credibility on release sustainability (I'm comparing them to Hopes Gaming who also don't post on patreon and have spotty release update but very high credibility on release sustainability)

With that particular dev, i just decrease my tier to the lowest tier.

In that situation, i can see ex-payers probably comment on "milking' in this situation. Though for the record, this dev in particular doesn't milk, they have few patrons as it is, there's nothing to "milk"

but yeah, any current patrons on average probably likely doesn't care if devs "milk" them, they don't think their payment is "milking" in the first place
 

camube

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Jun 4, 2022
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My biggest disappointment with episode 1 was the way the game treated Lily's injury as a convenient plot device so I get why you might have bailed out when you did. You luckily managed to miss what to me was my least favorite part of the game: Jake and Cooper yukking it up in a bar as if nothing tragic had just happened (because everyone deals with grief in their own way, of course) only for Natalya to show up to offer a quickie (...because everyone deals with grief in their own way, naturally). Before Lily got hurt, I was actually really enjoying the dynamic of Jake clumsily managing his relationships with his ex-wife, current girlfriend/FWB, and his daughter. I wish there were more slice of life VNs that covered these kind of very real world scenarios. I think I would've preferred if the drama had been dialed down and Jake's racing had instead been more of a selfish, dangerous thing he chose to do to ward off ennui and try to hold on to his youth rather than a selfless thing he must do to try to save Lily's life.
Yeah this is the game i want to play instead of the game we get.

i don't think i'll patron this game. it's good enough to play the continuation, but not good enough for me to want to pay money so the dev continue it's development. it wouldn't affect me one way or the other if the dev drop it tomorrow.

I have to say though, Veronica is well-written, and the dynamic between Jake and Allison is very well-written. At least in my route where Jake and Allison is bickering but both trying to move forward.

As much as i also like Allison as a love interest, Jake and Allison is too toxic for each other and if this is not a game (of which we have control over the MC), they are better apart. And that's where Veronica becomes a viable alternative.

I don't really get Natalya's storyline to be honest. It's just too out there. It's not that believable to me compared to Allison and Victoria's settings. And that Asian student too. I really can't remember her name. That's how unimpressive she was.

I gotta say, I'm still surprised how quick the $50 tier leak. $25 sure, it leaks all the time, $50 tier though, damn!
 
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Dragon59

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Apr 24, 2020
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Jake is an overall douchebag. He's an asshole, a bad husband, an even worse teacher, and a barely passable father. Despite all his bravado about doing "whatever it takes" for Lily, he still finds all the time in the world to fornicate with his students and basically fuck anything that isn't bolted to the ground. As a brilliant actress once said, "[Jake], that trollop, he'd shag an open wound." I really despise him, and being forced to play as him really saps the joy out of my experience.
So, you're saying he's not a fan of the "I'm stuck" fetish?
 

EndlessNights

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Jun 18, 2022
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Wow I Think I'm alone in thinking Jasmine was the best girl
I'm sure you're not alone. I don't really keep up with the game thread, but I think she's quite popular there.

I've tended to find her annoying on the routes I've played because there's no way to set any boundaries between her and Jake. The kiss is forced, you can't object to her disrespect of Veronica, and there's definitely no stopping the constant flashing (what is this place, Mardi Gras University?). She does have more of a personality than the other students as well as a personal connection to and enthusiasm for racing so that's at least something, but it wasn't really enough to make me feel drawn to her.

A relationship with Jasmine could also potentially go really, really badly. If it or another of Jake's student dalliances becomes public knowledge, he could lose his job and any project funding he manages to line up. That's quite a risk to take on considering Lily's life is on the line. There are actually a number of other potentially catastrophic consequences Jake could face due to his actions if the dev were to pull an Acting Lessons. For instance, if Natalya is a spy she could steal Jake's project out from under him. Or he could be killed or injured in a street race or perhaps just get arrested for his participation in one. Getting involved with Dr. Mahamaya could compromise Lily's care. Maggie's stepfather is probably powerful enough to ruin Jake's life in a number of ways. I think we all assume that the dev probably won't end up going there, but there are definitely a lot of risky choices Jake can make in the game that could theoretically catch up with him at some point.

If I had to to play a third route, I'd probably play Maggie's. She's certainly a good person and helping her feels satisfying even though it seems very doubtful Jake would/should have the emotional bandwidth needed to play knight in shining armor and immerse himself in someone else's problems while Lily is lying in a hospital bed in a coma. Unfortunately, the game treats Lily like an afterthought much of the time even though her injury is the main driver of the plot.

I wonder if Maggie's mom and/or the PT will end up being actual LIs.
 
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Raife

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May 16, 2018
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Natalya being a spy would make the game better in retrospect
I'm pretty sure she is -- there are more than enough breadcrumbs if you play her route... and her behaviour is otherwise inexplicable, even in the game's universe.

My ideal _Race for Life_ LI game endings would look something like this:

Veronica: Frustrated Jake [Jake's brain: 'the sex is so great and she validates my every move... so why do I cheat on her?']
Jasmine: Homeless, unemployed Jake ['who would have thought that orgies with my own students would be frowned upon?']
Natalya: Dead Jake ['she killed me for my battery tech, mid orgasm, with one of her stilettos. Right in the scrotum. I went out with a pop-pop-bang. But it was still almost worth it.']
Maggie: Castrati Jake ['Mr. Big, mom's evil boyfriend, had his goons bisect little Jake. I can now hit a high 'C' in the church choir.']
Allison 1: Suicidal Jake ['I realized what a horrible person I'd been and killed myself, right after Allison stopped accepting my help with Lily.']

Allison 2: Half-decent Jake ['She made me realize that I'd been a terrible person, and that I needed to acknowledge that and try a different path. I put my head down at work and finished the battery. Gave up illegal street racing after I hit a big payday... and nearly killed a little girl. And was astonished that Allison and Lily gave me another chance. I see my ex-and-future wife, and myself, very differently, now. She's beautiful and determined, and I don't deserve her... but nobody with a great partner truly does.']

It will never happen, but a man can dream! :cool:
 
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Deleted member 2577953

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I'm a Linklater fan, too. But I see you and Arisushi as _Before Sunrise_ types, while I'm more _School of Rock_ or perhaps _Dazed and Confused_ on a good day. ;)
Actually, if I had to put myself into a Linklater movie type - I'm the "Waking Life" and "Slacker" guy :giggle:

But I'm just as much as a "Dazed and Confused" and "Everybody wants some" type too.

In fact, (I didn't do a good job of it, but) I tried so fucking hard to go for a very similar feeling on one of my earlier games, "The best days of our lives".

Not because I wanted to imitate him in particular, but because that was genuinely the kind of experience I wanted to give my audience back then.

But, for better or worse, I've kinda moved away from that goal.

(Although, lately, I've been experiencing this ever-expanding love for "Apollo 10 1/2", that I'm wondering if it might eventually put me back in that mindset :unsure:)
 
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yossa999

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Dec 5, 2020
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Earlier today, I released the opening act of my visual novel, "Mayura Express".

PC -

MAC -

It's not exactly ready for a proper "f95" release yet, as there's still an important part of the story I want to complete before creating a proper thread for it. (And that's going to take some time.)

Right now, it's more or less just a quick introduction to some of its characters.

However, I'd really appreciate if any of you could take a look at it, and share your thoughts on it. (Both the good and the bad)

NOTE: My intention is not to "promote" the game here.

1. I don't have a lot of active audience on my patreon. Those who support me (God bless them), have mostly shown their appreciation through likes.

And as much as I love seeing those little heart symbols, it's not enough to get an idea of what they think about the "finer details" of the game.

2. Being a story-first thread, I hoped the players here won't mind the lack of erotic scenes, and would be happy to appreciate/criticise it for what it is.

---

Long story short, I just want someone to critique my work, and tell me what they liked and what they didn't.

Of course, I do feel a bit awkward about asking this in a forum where I've only been an occasional participant, but...

A few months ago, Jufot said it was okay to share my stuff here and ask for critique. So, I figured I'd just take up on that kind offer.

So, if anyone's up for a quick, 10-15 minutes playthrough, please check out Mayura Express, and share your thoughts with me.

---

(Was that too long for a "Hey guys, please critique my game"?

I'm sorry if it was. It's the first day of the release and I'm a little nervous and desperate for feedback. )
Hello Arisushi, sorry for the late reply, but I still hope that my short review can be of some help. I just want to warn you in advance that everything I wrote was written solely through the filter of my own preferences and in no way pretends to be objective.

Let me start by saying that I hang out in off-topic threads of a few of my favorite games, and most of the new games I try are recommended by people in those threads. Talking to the guys there, I got the impression that for them, such recommendations also become the primary source of new games that are worth playing. It's not that I don't keep an eye on the "latest updates" section of the site, but after you've tried everything that is high-ranked and filtered by the tags you like, it doesn't become very useful. Because your life is not enough to try out every new game there; dozens of them appear every day.

So, if the guys in the off-topic thread ask me what I think about “Mayura Express”, I’ll probably answer that it’s from one of the developers of “One Night Stand”, female protag, graphics in the style of “Our Red String”, girl travels to her hometown by train and chats with a random guy the whole way. Look, I really hate to write this, but that’s basically all I could see in the published fragment.

Of course, one can object to me: “Well, duh, dude, bingo, this can be said about any story-based game, the characters just chat and that’s probably all. Try to read what they're talking about.” This is not entirely true. Our tastes are shaped by modern media, where actions and emotions often prevail over content, and, alas, I am no exception. There has to be something that hooks me first, and then you can feed me long dialogues and self-reflections from the characters.

Look, I don’t know, at the ONS for example. An elderly bartender stands over the bar, polishing an already clean mug and choking on self-pity and the meaninglessness of his life. A young beautiful girl sits at the table with a sad and worried face, thinking about her love failures. What's interesting and exciting here? But here you did a great job of creating tension and intrigue between the characters. They gradually notice each other, their thoughts take a different direction, they begin an awkward conversation, tension grows. This is the trick that got me hooked and kept me playing in anticipation of what would happen next.

And when I think about it, there's always something about my favorite games that grabs my attention from the very beginning.
Summer's Gone - a misanthrope dude with deep mental trauma leaves the house for the first time in a while, meets a random girl on the street, who gets hit by a car before his eyes. Poor Vic and crazy Marla. The drama is created.
Chasing Sunsets - begins with a very touching and sweet story of childhood love between a step-sibling, which ends nasty. The conflict has been created.
Hillside - a "damsel in distress" opening that always works.
Leap of Faith - Chris drags the depressed MC to a fast food restaurant, where they joke and flirt with a pretty waitress, and the MC eventually gets her number. It's fun and creates a playful mood. I'm looking forward to a date with Kira.

I can go on and on, but this will be enough to get the idea: this is either an emotional situation that makes you feel for the characters, or some kind of intrigue that piques your interest, or some kind of action that attracts your attention and makes you want to see more. Naked boobs will be not bad too, but I think we are not talking about this kind of games :)

In the meantime, I have the impression that I was traveling on the Maurya Express in the same wagon with Surya, dozing all the way to the sound of the carriage wheels and her casual blabbering with some random dude. Either way, I can't say I don't like it, I just hope the rest of the chapter brings some fire to the story and makes this part a quick introduction to the characters. Thank you for sharing your work with us and I wish you all the best!
 

Deleted member 2577953

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Hello Arisushi, sorry for the late reply, but I still hope that my short review can be of some help. I just want to warn you in advance that everything I wrote was written solely through the filter of my own preferences and in no way pretends to be objective.

Let me start by saying that I hang out in off-topic threads of a few of my favorite games, and most of the new games I try are recommended by people in those threads. Talking to the guys there, I got the impression that for them, such recommendations also become the primary source of new games that are worth playing. It's not that I don't keep an eye on the "latest updates" section of the site, but after you've tried everything that is high-ranked and filtered by the tags you like, it doesn't become very useful. Because your life is not enough to try out every new game there; dozens of them appear every day.

So, if the guys in the off-topic thread ask me what I think about “Mayura Express”, I’ll probably answer that it’s from one of the developers of “One Night Stand”, female protag, graphics in the style of “Our Red String”, girl travels to her hometown by train and chats with a random guy the whole way. Look, I really hate to write this, but that’s basically all I could see in the published fragment.

Of course, one can object to me: “Well, duh, dude, bingo, this can be said about any story-based game, the characters just chat and that’s probably all. Try to read what they're talking about.” This is not entirely true. Our tastes are shaped by modern media, where actions and emotions often prevail over content, and, alas, I am no exception. There has to be something that hooks me first, and then you can feed me long dialogues and self-reflections from the characters.

Look, I don’t know, at the ONS for example. An elderly bartender stands over the bar, polishing an already clean mug and choking on self-pity and the meaninglessness of his life. A young beautiful girl sits at the table with a sad and worried face, thinking about her love failures. What's interesting and exciting here? But here you did a great job of creating tension and intrigue between the characters. They gradually notice each other, their thoughts take a different direction, they begin an awkward conversation, tension grows. This is the trick that got me hooked and kept me playing in anticipation of what would happen next.

And when I think about it, there's always something about my favorite games that grabs my attention from the very beginning.
Summer's Gone - a misanthrope dude with deep mental trauma leaves the house for the first time in a while, meets a random girl on the street, who gets hit by a car before his eyes. Poor Vic and crazy Marla. The drama is created.
Chasing Sunsets - begins with a very touching and sweet story of childhood love between a step-sibling, which ends nasty. The conflict has been created.
Hillside - a "damsel in distress" opening that always works.
Leap of Faith - Chris drags the depressed MC to a fast food restaurant, where they joke and flirt with a pretty waitress, and the MC eventually gets her number. It's fun and creates a playful mood. I'm looking forward to a date with Kira.

I can go on and on, but this will be enough to get the idea: this is either an emotional situation that makes you feel for the characters, or some kind of intrigue that piques your interest, or some kind of action that attracts your attention and makes you want to see more. Naked boobs will be not bad too, but I think we are not talking about this kind of games :)

In the meantime, I have the impression that I was traveling on the Maurya Express in the same wagon with Surya, dozing all the way to the sound of the carriage wheels and her casual blabbering with some random dude. Either way, I can't say I don't like it, I just hope the rest of the chapter brings some fire to the story and makes this part a quick introduction to the characters. Thank you for sharing your work with us and I wish you all the best!
Thank you very much for sharing that. I'm genuinely grateful that you took the time to clearly explain your expectations and thought process. It really helps a lot.

I completely understand where you're coming from. And also agree that what you've seen till now is just "fluff" that doesn't give you a strong incentive to continue reading further. But that was entirely intentional.

As I mentioned in the original post, there's still one key part of the story that is yet to be completed. THAT will (hopefully) serve as the "main hook" that makes readers come back for at least one more chapter.

But, as much as the story is going to have a "main hook line", I'm also the kind of writer who focuses equally on the "little moments of nothing." So, it was important for me to set that tone early on too.

Still, that lack of a hook is why I've held off from releasing this demo/Preview on f95. So, I assure that your concerns about the opening of the story will be properly addressed in the next (0.1 full version) release.

So, once I add that remaining content and release it here at f95, I'd really appreciate if you could give the game another chance and see if it's something you might be interested in :)
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,355
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Thank you very much for sharing that. I'm genuinely grateful that you took the time to clearly explain your expectations and thought process. It really helps a lot.

I completely understand where you're coming from. And also agree that what you've seen till now is just "fluff" that doesn't give you a strong incentive to continue reading further. But that was entirely intentional.

As I mentioned in the original post, there's still one key part of the story that is yet to be completed. THAT will (hopefully) serve as the "main hook" that makes readers come back for at least one more chapter.

But, as much as the story is going to have a "main hook line", I'm also the kind of writer who focuses equally on the "little moments of nothing." So, it was important for me to set that tone early on too.

Still, that lack of a hook is why I've held off from releasing this demo/Preview on f95. So, I assure that your concerns about the opening of the story will be properly addressed in the next (0.1 full version) release.

So, once I add that remaining content and release it here at f95, I'd really appreciate if you could give the game another chance and see if it's something you might be interested in :)
And thank you for your kind response and explanation of your intentions behind the story. And you certainly won't stop me from giving the game another try after it's full chapter released :)

I'm a sucker for a "little moments of nothing," which is probably why I love Summer's Gone so much and cherish such non-intense casual scenes this game is full of. Like when “best roommates ever” just hang out together by the lake, play catch in the water, relax in nature, and chat about nothing and everything. While this doesn't advance the story much, it helps create such a deep immersion in the game, to feel like what's happening is real. The only condition is that I must be really familiar with the characters (chorus singing "character's development") and already like them, otherwise why should I care about strangers :)

The scene in the cafe from the ONS makes a similar impression on me, when the characters have already become sufficiently acquainted and have overcome the initial awkwardness, they have a little time to get to know each other better and relax. But there the pressure of the plot prevails, one night stands are what they are, chop-chop boys and girls, there is no time for cuddling and chatting, you have the job to do! I hope there will be no rush in "Maurya Express" :)
 
5.00 star(s) 8 Votes