I have a strong suspicion that this game makes heavy use of AI. The soundtrack is very obviously a jumbled MIDI mess and the character writing had lost consistency after the first release already. Haven't looked at the script, but I imagine ChatGPT is relatively good at python.
Recommending Story-first games
- Thread starter jufot
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2018
- 1,068
- 5,252
This is interesting to me. My next actual game is called "Gemini," so it shouldn't be terribly surprising that it's about two siblings. The thought of them being romantically linked never even entered my mind. I guess I should mentally prepare for all of the people who are going to flood the thread with "WTF, you called it Gemini, so it's obviously an incest game!"
I find it weird that so many people on F95 think that, because they found a thread here, then the developer must have written it for F95. Not to mention them thinking that there's only one kind of thing possible on F95.
Tlaero
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,379
- 16,079
Damn reaction limit 
But surprisingly, most of the people I talked to didn't like the game. At least in its current state. Yeah, it's eye candy and all, but they found writing almost cringy, especially those "meta-jokes", like when AVN characters discussing the AVN game inside the AVN game, or when Alex scolds at MC, and asking him do he think he is the main character in some novel.
Strange swings in the characters of the girls, such as Danielle, who from the very first appearance behaves like a little slut, but suddenly demands from the MC full commitment to her, otherwise she will cut his balls if she catches him with another girl. Summer, who suddenly wants a photo session in her lingerie in the middle of the forest
Some girls are too clingy from the very beginning and are exaggeratedly offended if the MC looks at others. I don’t know, I like the game overall and I relate these shortcomings to the teenage nature of the characters, they are horny teenagers and act according to this.
The only thing they say that I can accept as relatively valid criticism is that the dev made changes to some scenes after backlash on the thread, but left scenes they didn't like or didn't add content they wanted. Consequently, he picks favorites and ignores the rest. But it seems to me the opposite. He is open to the criticism and is willing to listen to the user's opinion, but he sticks to his vision of the game and will not change the things that he believes the entire plot rests on.
So he removed the trans scene (actually a couple of images) which was intended as a little joke during a conversation between two friends, but caused a lot of misunderstanding and misattribution of the game as trans/futa content, or the sexual scene with Sam (the MC's girlfriend) right after he tells her bad news about his mother’s health, which was clearly inappropriate in this situation.
But that’s all, and he still refuses to add incest to the plot or remove his sister’s memories of her love story with another girl, and this infuriates some of the audience. They don't want to believe the developer's claims that these are actually important plot elements in his story, and apparently think he's just trying to annoy them. But all they achieved with their attacks was that the developer left this site, and we lost one of the direct ways to communicate with him.
Yeah, that game gave me the same vibes. There was another unknown voyeur in the forest besides horny Alice's teenage brother, right? And the missing girls fotos at the gas station...Damn, now I want to play an AVN in the Scream universe
But surprisingly, most of the people I talked to didn't like the game. At least in its current state. Yeah, it's eye candy and all, but they found writing almost cringy, especially those "meta-jokes", like when AVN characters discussing the AVN game inside the AVN game, or when Alex scolds at MC, and asking him do he think he is the main character in some novel.
Strange swings in the characters of the girls, such as Danielle, who from the very first appearance behaves like a little slut, but suddenly demands from the MC full commitment to her, otherwise she will cut his balls if she catches him with another girl. Summer, who suddenly wants a photo session in her lingerie in the middle of the forest
Some girls are too clingy from the very beginning and are exaggeratedly offended if the MC looks at others. I don’t know, I like the game overall and I relate these shortcomings to the teenage nature of the characters, they are horny teenagers and act according to this.
Yeah, an MC has relatives, which means there must be incest. If there is no incest, then why make his mother and sister so beautiful? This makes some sense if you came to watch porn and suddenly found a story-based game with porn elements and you hate this kind of VN. Well, that's a bummer for you then
The only thing they say that I can accept as relatively valid criticism is that the dev made changes to some scenes after backlash on the thread, but left scenes they didn't like or didn't add content they wanted. Consequently, he picks favorites and ignores the rest. But it seems to me the opposite. He is open to the criticism and is willing to listen to the user's opinion, but he sticks to his vision of the game and will not change the things that he believes the entire plot rests on.
So he removed the trans scene (actually a couple of images) which was intended as a little joke during a conversation between two friends, but caused a lot of misunderstanding and misattribution of the game as trans/futa content, or the sexual scene with Sam (the MC's girlfriend) right after he tells her bad news about his mother’s health, which was clearly inappropriate in this situation.
But that’s all, and he still refuses to add incest to the plot or remove his sister’s memories of her love story with another girl, and this infuriates some of the audience. They don't want to believe the developer's claims that these are actually important plot elements in his story, and apparently think he's just trying to annoy them. But all they achieved with their attacks was that the developer left this site, and we lost one of the direct ways to communicate with him.
- Apr 24, 2020
- 6,706
- 10,972
Yeah, I looked at all three choices and chose not to move forward with the worst case scenario.No I haven't, I assume she's going to be one of the other patients there?. Of course with an easy going, light hearted story attached to her
But no, I chose reason here because she didn't strike me as that kind of a girl.You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
- May 15, 2021
- 1,562
- 3,519
This turned out to be a good recommendation. The story is just getting started, but I'm already hooked and the prose is surprisingly good. It feels like this is not the first time the dev is writing fiction.- Simple beginnings
Hard to talk about this one. It seems to be a story first game, but you can't really tell what the story's actually going to be about. Her sister went missing... aaaaand that's basically it. You get some small story snippets here and there, but it's weird. It's supposed to have supernatural and horror elements somewhere down the line, but... we'll see I guess. Maybe?, Eventually?
Maybe this is a case for inspector Jufot to take over
Based on episode 1, two things are obvious: Dad didn't commit suicide, and Sarah didn't run away. But also, perhaps surprisingly, I believe Emma's "I'm immortal" joke wasn't.
I'm a big fan of Emma. She's so fun, and exactly the kind of best friend you'd want as an introvert living in relative poverty. I imagine she'll be instrumental in protecting Jenny from Amanda and Carl's scheme. Speaking of which, I also like Amanda (Jenny's mum). Yes, she's vile to her daughter, but her talk with Carl in the kitchen was very illuminating. The way her shame and guilt causes her to mistreat her children felt very true to life.
I'm also curious if the various bits of school drama (Jasmyn and Mr. Baker, the promotion issue with Uma and Mrs. Goodwin, and Murphy's threat to Jenny) will tie in to the central mystery.
Anyway, good game, recommended!
I'll leave you with my favourite line so far:I'll wait for one more chapter before adding the game to the OP.Emma said:
Will she need protection though?. It'll all come down to what's the story's going to be. I mean, supernatural, there aren't that many possibilities here. Vampires maybe?, underground society stuff, magic/super heroes/whatever...., but then again, there aren't any real signs of any of that yet. No strange events where someone does something weird. It's more like the opposite, the game is very grounded so far and leans heavy towards realism, actual realism i might add.. Take all the campus scenes for example who're done way different than what you get to see in your usual AVN.
Which brings me to another point here, the "dating sim" aspect of it. Near the end of the current content you get to choose your path lesbian/bi/straight, but it's interesting because there aren't that many people introduced as of yet. A lot of them feel more like acquaintances at most. Sure, there's the swim/sports teacher who'll come into play at some point I suppose. I was honestly kinda surprised that him and the MC haven't had a conversation of sorts yet. Maybe he isn't even supposed to be an LI?. Other than that there's only "Loverboy" and her BFF as of yet...
So what's going to happen here?. Does this game will take some drastic story turn in the upcoming chapters?, I have no idea.. All I know is that this AVN definitely does his own thing. Pretty intriguing I have to admitt, but whe have to wait and see... The title " Simple beginnings " does seem to fit though =)
I also played "Beyond tomorrow"
This game felt a bit like watching some old abercrombie and fitch advertising campaign, or calvin klein or something... With the MC more often than not striking a pose, letting the audience admire his leet tats & body or whatever. I mean, hell, even cancer mom, who looks more like 25 instead of 40, seemed more like she was on some set for some chemotherapy photoshot rather than her being in actual danger of dying... Combine that with all the theatrical dialogue... My emotional investment ended up somewhere close to 0%
.Still, at the end of the day, a pretty inoffensive game and probably worth checking out. It just wasn't really my thing..
I did like Samantha though, she seemed to have some character to her. Gotta strike fast here mr model MC. The search is already over imo
Last edited:
- May 15, 2021
- 1,562
- 3,519
I assume she will because we were repeatedly told just how obscenely rich, powerful, and influential Emma's parents are and how much her mum loves Jenny. I assume that emphasis is for a reason.
But yes, there isn't anything supernatural yet. The intro definitely told us otherwise, though, so I reckon we'll start seeing bits and pieces of it soon.
I like the way it was handled. There is no pressure, no in-your-face sexuality. Just a bunch of people who might vaguely be interesting to / interested in Jenny. "Loverboy" is obnoxious though
I'm not playing a straight route, which leaves Emma, and that's just fine by me.That's such an astute description of the gameThis game felt a bit like watching some old abercrombie and fitch advertising campaign, or calvin klein or something... With the MC more often than not striking a pose, letting the audience admire his leet tats & body or whatever. I mean, hell, even cancer mom, who looks more like 25 instead of 40, seemed more like she was on some set for some chemotherapy photoshot rather than her being in actual danger of dying... Combine that with all the theatrical dialogue... My emotional investment ended up somewhere close to 0%
I've complained multiple times on this thread about most AVN characters being underwear models LARPing as ordinary people. This game is a prime example.The LoF cameo made me think that someone discovered a new fetish, when his peepee got hard at the parts of the game it wasn't supposed to. Maybe this is the start of some kind of melancholy porn genre.I also played "Beyond tomorrow"
This game felt a bit like watching some old abercrombie and fitch advertising campaign, or calvin klein or something... With the MC more often than not striking a pose, letting the audience admire his leet tats & body or whatever. I mean, hell, even cancer mom, who looks more like 25 instead of 40, seemed more like she was on some set for some chemotherapy photoshot rather than her being in actual danger of dying... Combine that with all the theatrical dialogue... My emotional investment ended up somewhere close to 0%
Idk this stuff seems like a cheap tear jerker to me, but people seem to love it. I guess it plays into the power fantasy of being dependable, when all the women need the PC's shoulder to cry on. But things like clinical depression, cancer and physical disabilities in a porn game are dangerously close to the fetishization of "damaged goods", where it's all about dependency, which is creepy af.
- Jun 18, 2022
- 315
- 2,174
Well, there's nakige and utsuge for Japanese VNs (they're not necessarily or exclusively AVNs, though). I haven't played very many, but I get the impression that they're often very melodramatic and like to pile on tragedy after tragedy. Imagine a week in the life of some poor MC: his parents die in a car crash, his sister is so traumatized as a result that she stops speaking or displaying any emotion, and his girlfriend is also diagnosed with a fatal illness.
I think a lot depends on the way the story is told. Ideally, we should be able to have characters in AVNs who have disabilities, serious physical illnesses, and/or mental health issues just like real people do. As long as they're depicted as actual people and not just empty gateways to exploitative sex scenes, I think it's generally a good thing. Katawa Shoujo for instance I thought did a good job of making sure the routes were not centered around the characters' disabilities for the most part. Instead, the game focuses on who they are as individuals and their relationships with Hisao and the other characters. Hanako's route is perhaps the one exception because she has so much unresolved mental scarring to go along with her physical scars and she is more dependent than the other LIs, but I still would be reluctant to call her route fetishized.
I also see a lot of potential social value in stories that depict characters with disabilities and physical/mental health issues as being both desirable and lovable. That's a world away from the games that act like only underwear models can get any action or affection.
- Apr 17, 2022
- 130
- 861
That's like every telenovela ever written. Melodrama is just not supposed to be very realistic or sensitive, it thrives on hyperbolic emotions by default. Children lose their parents until they reappear, people have accidents until it turns out everything was staged or the victim survived in the wilderness for ten years, sisters and brothers and loved ones get diagnosed with terminal illness till total remission due to their closeness to God or the power of love. And sometimes there is no salvation at all. I don't think we would ever consider this as fetishization in the context of a normal telenovela, only because AVNs are sexual in nature, we suddenly have this idea.
In my opinion many of us humans just have a desire for strong emotions, so we seek thrills in action, horror, drama and love to feel ourselves more. At least that is why I enjoy watching and playing such content. Sex and sexual thoughts are one way to achieve that, but melodrama, horror and love stories are just different paths to the same experience of katharsis. I don't feel it's entirely fair to denounce this as a form of fetishization, unless it's really thriving on blatant crime, abuse or torture.
On a side note: I am a nurse and I deal with a lot of suffering and loss on a daily basis. To me the poor handling of stories around cancer, depression, suicide etc. boils down to the fact that we push that away for most of our life. So, when it finally hits (and that it does for everyone at some point) we just don't have the emotional bandwidth and vocabulary to treat it with the complexity it deserves. It's no surprise to me that one of the best AVNs about suicide or drug abuse is written by people who are processing personal experiences with it. For many of us our treatment of the subject is inadequate, like a picture drawn by a toddler. We kind of know that it has to be mentioned in order to write a complete story, but we don't have the words and devices to do it in a way that doesn't appear like a fetish.
Anyway. Don't mind me rambling. Have a beautiful Sunday.
What you say is wise and true: I love your observations about human nature, how we process emotions, and how we tell each other stories.
Your 'side note' about loss particularly resonated with me. We usually don't treat emotions and stories associated with pain, suffering and loss with the depth and sophistication they deserve... certainly not in AVNs. Moreover -- with apologies to jufot, as he's heard this from me many times -- truly appreciating the beauty and wonder of life _requires_ a familiarity with the darker side, much the way painters like Vermeer used dark backgrouds to illuminate the beauty of their subjects.
Your points don't just apply to telenovelas or melodrama: they cover classical drama and most of the English canon. Look at basically every Dickens novel. But you know that very well: you mentioned the concept of katharsis. Not much has changed about human beings since Aeschylus!
The quality of writing you've described is exactly what jufot wants to see; it's what many of us on this thread want to play in AVNs.
The difficulty -- particularly for devs and for players with tastes like ours -- is that most AVN players hail from a particular demographic and see games as a wish-fulfilling escape. Thus, most games eschew strong emotion, feature physically dominant (and emotionally immature) male protagonists, and use porny tropes. I find these games deadly dull... at best.
Finally: I am pleased whenever someone like you posts on this thread. Many, many users on this site... aren't my favourite people. But what you've written here requires a degree of insight and wisdom that you don't encounter very often anywhere, let alone on F95. Finding users like you on this site... well, let's just say it puts me in a more optimistic frame of mind.
Last edited:
Another solid update: _The Bite: Revenant_ is definitely one of my favourites at the moment.
But I am concerned that, much like _Rebirth_, the dev risks eventually making the MC overpowered, which could diminish the strong female LIs or NPCs. He will need to handle that transition carefully, and preserve the autonomy and integrity of his female characters...
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,379
- 16,079
Those were very thoughtful ramblings, thank you for sharing them[...] Anyway. Don't mind me rambling. Have a beautiful Sunday.
And once LoF was mentioned, it was a great example of your point that we generally just don't have the emotional range and vocabulary to deal with dark topics like suicide, drug use, or life-threatening illnesses with the complexity which they deserve.
When I did my first playthrough, I definitely had a range of different emotions about Cece's arc. Irritation, distrust, skepticism, misunderstanding. Like, while looking with a smirk: “Yeah, sure, this dev guy knows how to draw attention to his characters. This Damsel in Distress was simply waiting for our Prince Charming to arrive before drawing herself into the abyss of the black waters. How the hell did he even manage to catch her on the fly, is he an acrobat or what? What a cheap trick! Well, at least she's hot, me and my MC will have a lot of fun saving her from her theatrical misery."
Later, as the story progressed, it became even more annoying: “What is she talking about? What's wrong with her? Where do these constant mood swings, vague attempts to explain her state of mind come from? This is simply not right, the author is not playing by the rules. The lass was going to end her life, I get it. For... whatever the reason, there just had to be a rationale for this... Unhappy love, loss of someone important, unbearable grief, drug overdose, anything that we've seen in thousands of dramas. But now everything is fine, Prince Charming is here, he saved you, we live happily ever after, and that means a lot of fun and hot steamy sex scenes."
And at the end of the story, after a fun and joyful summer spent at Lexie's house, reuinon at their old school, when everything seemed to be working out and getting better, suddenly bam! We are at the same point where it all began. And the final nail in the head is the author’s remark that Cece’s character has a real prototype.
This came as a shock to me and made me retrospect my view of the game and the characters. I replayed Cece's path, paying more attention to her words and facial expressions rather than her... um... assets. Damn, I was embarrassed that I thought the author was just trying to get attention with the Cece drama when he was telling the real story of how complex and dangerous some types of mental illness can be.
As someone who has never had to deal with such things (and I hope I will never have to), I got my ideas about what it is from mainstream media, primarily movies. And they tend to simplify it, usually in the mainstream, suicide always has a rational reason, it may seem stupid or far-fetched, but at least there is some logic, the desire to end one’s life does not arise out of nowhere. And although such characters often experienced a kind of ptsd after a failed suicide attempt, they easily recovered with the help of counseling groups, friends and loved ones.
But Drifty showed well that not everything is so simple. That sometimes a person cannot even explain with the words what is wrong. But even though “it” cannot be seen, heard, touched or even explained, for an ill person “it” is very real. And "it" can become so intense that a young, cheerful, witty, attractive and full of life girl would prefer to end her life rather than experience constant torment, the essence of which she can hardly even explain to anybody. It’s even more surprising that the author managed to wrap such a complex and serious topic in an essentially entertaining AVN format.
- Aug 26, 2023
- 192
- 889
I agree with everything you wrote, so take a second to think if Dream isn't just another developer doing the same thing. If someone is making a game just to get the most money out of it, they will focus on content that fulfills almost all the lewd imaginations of the players. An emotional story behind this makes no sense. As you said yourself, in the case of LoF you understood some things at the end. Someone will say that "BT's story is too much". I don't think so, it's real, it happens every day to everyone all around us. People know that cancer exists, but they ignore it but only until the moment cancer becomes a part of their lives. It could be exactly the same with Lily as with Cece. And considering that Cece wasn't just a cameo and Dream probably "bonded" with Drifty when it came to BT, it probably doesn't need more words. People like Drifty aren't stupid, they don't get along with everyone
- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,379
- 16,079
I never thought any less of Dream and his work. I noticed his game from the first release here, and I wrote the first review in the game's main thread.
I like this kind of stories, although many consider them depressing, and the appearance of such recognizable character in the game only fuels my curiosity. And of course, I see that the story is still in its early stages, the main characters are introduced (maybe not all), the current life situation they find themselves in is shown, the relationships between some characters are depicted, and hints are also given about some skeletons in the characters' closets. Basically, that’s all for now, and it would be pointless to draw far-fetched conclusions about a book after reading only a dozen pages, unless you already don't like what you've read. Like I said before, I'm enjoying it so far, we'll see where it goes.
Lily seems quite natural in the terrible situation, which she have to cope with. I don’t see any falsehood in her, especially considering her experience as a psychological consultant, she’s definitely not a shoemaker without boots. I'm not kink shaming anyone, just voicing my own preferences, but the idea of making her lewdable or LI for her son feels disgusting and would completely ruin the game for me.
So for now, I can say that the author is making a good story-based game with a decent plot and excellent renderings, I like it and follow game's thread and I expect some very intriguing twists and turns ahead
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
- Sep 8, 2019
- 17
- 364
Hi Everyone,
May I humbly suggest my game?
Circumstances
The story and deep relationships are vital parts of it.
If you do check it out, Enjoy
Cheers
May I humbly suggest my game?
Circumstances
The story and deep relationships are vital parts of it.
If you do check it out, Enjoy
Cheers
- Aug 26, 2023
- 192
- 889
I know, he mentioned you somewhere before that you were one of the few players who didn't complain
You are not the only one. People are capable of creating all sorts of nasty things, especially when we're talking about AVNs, but Dream also said that there are boundaries everywhere and this is one of those that he won't cross no matter what. I don't even want to imagine something like that, as you said yourself, it's disgusting
About that spoiler:
I have not yet noticed that he pays much attention to it. The truth is that the criticism starts here and ends here. As for the people on his server or Patreon, they write something negative or criticize him, but at the same time no one has to call him "dumbass" or "idiot" to point out a mistake. No request, criticism or opinion was ever ignored by him, but it depends on how one writes it. He is learning... I believe that chapter 3 will be the turning point when some potential will show
- Aug 3, 2021
- 1,714
- 3,182
A great update to Zero End. It is quickly becoming one of my favourite AVNs.
I'm gonna note - I haven't talked to the dev, nor played the game, so nothing I say here should be taken as commentary on it, since I lack all knowledge and context. This is more of a global thing -
I think topic like those, and others, are fine, and can even be meaningful - depending on how they're handled, and what their purpose is.
My first game, a big undercurrent of the overall story, was domestic violence/abuse. It wasn't used as a means for sex, nor was it a defining trait of the character, but it was relevant to the story.
My new game, the MC's mom is schizophrenic. Another character.... (I won't say, because the topic will come up in CH2, which isn't out yet!). The main catalyst to the story, and one of the drives being the MC, was the murder of his fiancé. There's ofc other things I won't mention, because they won't really come up for a bit.
The point is, there's plenty of "melancholy" in my storytelling, tons of issues, and lots of characters could in some ways be seen as "damaged goods" - But for me, I did this for three reasons. #1 - It, IMO, makes for interesting storytelling. #2 - It presents opportunities to add character depth that you might otherwise struggle to add. #3 - These things all exist. Some people are all about the pure fantasy, whatever way it goes - but I like to try and find that blend between fantasy and reality - the sort of situation where a part of you *knows* it's all made up and just a story, but another part goes "Well, I've seen crazier shit in my life".
There certainly are devs who might take such topics and try to fetishize them, which I guess I have mixed feelings about, but many that I've seen at least, are really just trying to tell a story - and well, those stories just often tend to contain a litany of sex.
Ultimately I think it comes down to (at least for the player) - Did I enjoy that, or not? Different people will have different answers to different games, everyone has different tastes after all, but I can say most devs I know are trying to create games where people will go "Yes, I enjoyed that". Ofc that's based on what the dev themselves enjoys, and hey. Like they say, There's no accounting for taste.
i haven't had the time to play it, looking forward to play it if you say it's good!