Recommending Story-first games

[Regularus]

That's the thread I looked into as well. But it was this particular line that caught my eye:

"Note that the No-Sex tag refers to softcore porn content, not SFW games"

I always assumed it meant something like -- "don't add your games in here unless they have at least soft porn levels of content in them".

Or am I somehow totally misreading it?

Coming back to this, i noticed this adult VN thread for a game that does not have sexual content or even nudity :
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-nighrest-ep-1-choudertales.188138/

So what about nudity/sexual content?
It's not decided yet. It may happen in the future or the story will go on without the need for them. Idk yet I haven't decided on that yet So please take this into consideration before supporting me.
But this doesn't mean the game will be dry or anything. The game will features a unique romance, dating, teasing, kissing, cuddles, etc so I'm sure you'll like the flow of the game. I just wanted to say this to let you know what my main focus on the game is.

This game may or may not have any sexual content in it as of now.

So it looks like indeed as long as the game has adult themes, you should have no problem with adding it on F95 even without sexual content or nudity.

 

[Mravac Kid]

That's a good point: it's a bit baffling that devs haven't tried a Conan game, or at least a Conan homage... it seems rather perfect for this genre.

Howard was, famously, part of the 'Lovecraft circle' of writers and correspondents. There have been a great many Lovecraft inspired games... why not Conan?

Conan goes to public domain in 2028, and all of the books will be public domain by 2032. I'm fairly sure that will result in more than a few Conan games, and possibly movies.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Coming back to this, i noticed this adult VN thread for a game that does not have sexual content or even nudity :
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-nighrest-ep-1-choudertales.188138/


So it looks like indeed as long as the game has adult themes, you should have no problem with adding it on F95 even without sexual content or nudity.

Thank you I'm making some minor revisions to the 0.1 version right now.

Once that is done, I'll submit a thread request for it. Hopefully, things will go as smoothly as said (as the VN definitely has plenty of adult themes in it.)

 

[Raife]

So... Elvensang Episode 5 is out, and it's predictably good.

If I have any criticism, it's that the balance between character development and advancing the plot tilts a bit too much towards the former, particularly in this chapter. But is it still relaxing, fun and stimulating to play? Absolutely. Does it create the sense that the action takes place in one small part of a wider, dynamic, threatening world? Sure.

Am I terrified that Worlaix is going to run out of gas, or beat himself up too much about his (lovely) art to the point where he thinks about throwing in the towel (like, ehm, some other devs of my acquaintance)? Yes.

But it's worth highlighting what Worlaix does unusually, even uniquely, well:

Concealing the consequences of choices. There's a point in this episode where the MC must choose between morally dubious action (A) and equally dubious action (B) to get what he wants. Choosing A or B leads to roughly the same conclusion, so the credulous/dumb player (namely, yours truly) cusses out Worlaix for throwing in a pseudo choice. But... much later in the chapter, a major NPC reacts much differently to the MC's action depending on his choice. The dev has successfully 'hidden the ball' from the player... making a significant choice initially seem inconsequential. Bravo, Worlaix!

Going there without going there. Suggestion and innuendo is often much hotter than actual sex. Thinking about cheating (and its consequences) can be more erotic than doing the deed.

Hidden Agendas. I love that Warlaix has made the MC's mother into Joseph Campbell's archetypal 'sage' AND given her a mysterious past and agenda AND made it clear that she's concealing information. Many, many other characters have ulterior motives... but a few do not. Love it.

Low magic. Magic exists, but only in extremely unusual circumstances... and it's dangerous and poorly understood, even by its practitioners. As it should be!

Elvensang continues to reward attentive players with a rich experience that satisfies on many levels. It's a strange, beautiful and ideosyncratic rough diamond among AVNs. Keep at it, Worlaix!

 

[EndlessNights]

So... Elvensang Episode 5 is out, and it's predictably good.

If I have any criticism, it's that the balance between character development and advancing the plot tilts a bit too much towards the former, particularly in this chapter. But is it still relaxing, fun and stimulating to play?

I was very glad that there was an Elvensang update and that Worlaix was able to prove his naysayers on this site wrong. The actual update, though, I found to be quite disappointing. All the dramatic tension that I found so compelling in previous updates seems to have vanished. It felt way too staid and conflict-free given that the MC's broader circumstances haven't really changed significantly.

The word from Raife's writeup that struck me the most was "relaxing." Personally, I've never considered Elvensang to be a relaxing game to play at all. I always saw the MC as someone who is in a very precarious position. He's a permanent outsider forced to coexist with humans who despise his kind, he's being haunted by a demon, his mother has so many secrets and her behavior is so inscrutable that it's unclear if she should be trusted, and the world around him seems set to be engulfed in flames as mysterious magic, self-interested factionalism, and ancient rivalries collide. This isn't exactly my idea of the VN equivalent of enjoying cup of hot chocolate in front of the fireplace.

But speaking of the new update, I think Raife's correct: it IS designed to be a cozy experience...to the detriment of the story and the worldbuilding, in my opinion. The sense of alienation and separation between the MC and the human world feels like it's being lost altogether as if centuries of bigotry and hatred could be wiped away by the resolution of a misunderstanding. Now the racist shopkeeper who hates him actually wants to give the MC information so he can be successful at his job for some reason. Just about every single human woman the MC meets seems to be romantically and/or sexually interested in him as well. Yep, elves really have it rough in this village: when they're not being almost murdered, threatened, or bullied by townspeople, they are beset with unlimited hookup opportunities along with respect and job offers from the most powerful members of the community.

What concerns me the most is I'm not sure the structure of the story will even give Worlaix enough artistic freedom to surprise me at this point. For all of Anesteya's mysteriousness and moral ambiguity, it's hard to actually imagine her omissions and deceptions not being ultimately motivated by a desire to protect or do what she thinks is best for her son. It's equally hard to imagine the MC independently breaking away from her and setting his own course since despite his moments of pique and moodiness he always seems to end up doing what she wants in the end. Thanks to Sunny's permanent position as assigned girlfriend, the other women in the game aren't really rivals for the MC's affection or people he can actually fall deeply and exclusively in love with. An asshole MC could use them to hurt and perhaps corrupt her, but an MC who loves her would probably just avoid all of them as much as possible. I always used to get the sense that every character in the game was meant to have a life of their own (well, perhaps that's just what I wanted to believe), but some scenes in the recent update made me wonder if Kara really is there just to be a token muscle girl or if saving the farmer and his wife was just a setup for a netori side quest.

I feel like Amaya has been the game's only truly great character so far. Her violence, her brutality, her fanaticism, her philosophy, her knowledge, and her charm make her the most potent threat to the status quo and the MC's ossified world. She felt like the kind of disruptive force that could throw the whole train completely off the tracks. Without her playing a more active role, the story feels bereft of any actually interesting conflict. But if you're playing Elvensang for coziness maybe that's a positive.

Lastly, I think I might be the only one who feels this way, but Sunny's redesign might be my least favorite ever. Since she's so important to the story and unavoidable as the main LI, that's a really tough one to get past.

 

[Raife]

The actual update, though, I found to be quite disappointing. All the dramatic tension that I found so compelling in previous updates seems to have vanished. It felt way too staid and conflict-free given that the MC's broader circumstances haven't really changed significantly.

I agree with much of the substance of your complaints about the episode, Endless... but not necessarily with the inferences you seem to be drawing about the course of the plot and the game.

Chapter 5 did represent a lull in terms of plot development and dramatic tension. But in the context of a game as long as Elvensang promises to be (I am hardly alone in fearing that it will never be finished) that's OK. You can't maintain constant dramatic tension without exhausting the player/reader. Even when the Black Riders are chasing Frodo and his party in LOTR, there are days that go by without any encounters. Sometimes, keeping the menacing threat 'off stage' for a time makes it all the more frightening when it catches up to our characters.

The humans in the story have not turned over a new leaf about elves... at all. In fact, I thought having the MC march around town wearing the Lord's signet was the most interesting element of the episode. It's not as if NPC attitudes changed -- they were still hostile and offered plenty of backhanded remarks. But there was a consciousness that they couldn't just randomly attack the MC, and that their words and actions would be reported. That made for an interesting change.

I do agree that the female LIs in the game seem excessively enamored of the MC. But... I like that they all seem to have 'quirks' or traits that make them plausibly less attractive to most human males in the game, and gratified if and when the MC treats them with respect. There's no 'magic dong' trope at work.

Worlaix's real issue is that because his updates are so infrequent, Elvensang is likely to suffer more than most games from the 'last episode syndrome' -- that is, when the most recent episode dominates the player's feelings about the game and sense of the plot. I suspect that Chapter 5 will prove to be unusual in the context of the full game. That would not be a problem, if Worlaix were able to manage an update every 2 months... but with a semi-annual or annual update cadence it's a potentially serious issue.

 

[kotte]

I do agree that the female LIs in the game seem excessively enamored of the MC. But... I like that they all seem to have 'quirks' or traits that make them plausibly less attractive to most human males in the game, and gratified if and when the MC treats them with respect. There's no 'magic dong' trope at work.

Regarding this, Worlaix said that this happened because he focused on one of the girls at the time:

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[jufot]

So... Elvensang Episode 5 is out, and it's predictably good.

I was very glad that there was an Elvensang update and that Worlaix was able to prove his naysayers on this site wrong.

I've been away from VNs for a while but both of you commenting on Elvensang finally pushed my lazy self to play this latest chapter.

But... much later in the chapter, a major NPC reacts much differently to the MC's action depending on his choice.

I know which choice you're talking about, but what's the different reaction?

Hidden Agendas [...] Low magic

Agreed on both. I still think Anesteya is far more devious and powerful than she lets on. She talks about her ex-girlfriend/apprentice very matter-of-factly, but it's scary how utterly amoral she can be. I have no doubt she'd throw Sunny under the bus if she believed it would help Doriel.

It's equally hard to imagine the MC independently breaking away from her and setting his own course since despite his moments of pique and moodiness he always seems to end up doing what she wants in the end. Thanks to Sunny's permanent position as assigned girlfriend, the other women in the game aren't really rivals for the MC's affection or people he can actually fall deeply and exclusively in love with. An asshole MC could use them to hurt and perhaps corrupt her, but an MC who loves her would probably just avoid all of them as much as possible. I always used to get the sense that every character in the game was meant to have a life of their own (well, perhaps that's just what I wanted to believe), but some scenes in the recent update made me wonder if Kara really is there just to be a token muscle girl or if saving the farmer and his wife was just a setup for a netori side quest.

I agree with all of this as well. This update really did a lot of damage in terms of pushing the women into LI roles to be conquered, as opposed to people with lives and goals of their own. The farmer's wife, Kara and Becky have all become tropes leading to their inevitable sex scenes. Trisha seems to be the only one with plot relevance still, even though the game is strongly pushing you to have a threesome with her and Sunny.

I feel like Amaya has been the game's only truly great character so far. Her violence, her brutality, her fanaticism, her philosophy, her knowledge, and her charm make her the most potent threat to the status quo and the MC's ossified world. She felt like the kind of disruptive force that could throw the whole train completely off the tracks. Without her playing a more active role, the story feels bereft of any actually interesting conflict.

Right. Anesteya aside, Amaya is the only character who is not distracted by the "cosy" stuff. Her scenes are strong and move the plot forward, and this chapter was weaker for not having her in it.

 

[Raife]

I know which choice you're talking about, but what's the different reaction?

It's Anesteya who reacts.

Speaking of -- let's talk about her, as I think she's a standout. I share your opinion about her hidden power, as well as her morality. And I preserve that hope that...

...she will turn into an antagonist. That is, the MC will eventually have to choose between her and Sunny; that would set up all sorts of juicy complications. It's clear that A would never willingly hurt him... but she'd be more than happy to kill anyone else to suit her purposes, including Sunny.

I'm fairly sure that we're headed for an A-A collision at some point which will force the MC out of his 'glass cabinet.' Whether Worlaix can get there before losing steam is another question.

 

[jufot]

And I preserve that hope that... [spoilery stuff]

Unfortunately, the brilliance of that idea is only matched by its unlikeliness

The reason is simple: Like most devs, Worlaix is terrified of intra LI conflicts, especially consequential ones, lest it makes the player feel uncomfortable. He's already pulling his punches when it comes to Sunny's completely justified jealousy. Instead of Sunny dumping Doriel's lecherous arse she's being pushed to accept his bullshit. Even Anesteya tells him that it's not that he shouldn't cheat, he should just be honest about it. That's a cop out designed to ensure the player never has to feel bad for pursuing an LI, no matter the circumstances.

I'm fairly sure that we're headed for an A-A collision at some point which will force the MC out of his 'glass cabinet.' Whether Worlaix can get there before losing steam is another question.

This update took more than a year to materialize, and it was a relatively weak one. I hope he doesn't lose steam.

 

[Vasin]

I've now finally played most recent Elvensang chapter, and I sort of agree with the general sentiment.

It ended up in an interesting place of not being as story-centric as previous ones and at the same time not as generic as I would expect in, say, a TV show with clear split between main plot and filler episodes. Somehow it turned out to be meh. It's not helped by the fact that the game sorely needs "Last week on Elvensang" segment as it becomes more and more cumbersome to replay it in it's entirety and I for the life of me can't remember who all these people are and what the hell happened.

As for LI convergence, it did feel a bit contrived but realistically, I think this is the best we could expect from this level of production, and the quality of writing in the minutiae of dialogue is still excellent. Is it conceivable that some gaming studio can create a game similar to this one where each love interest has a separate plot thread and they all interweave in a cohesive pattern (if we magically grant them the most important thing for that purpose, namely writing talent)? Sure, maybe, but even then such a game would be commercial suicide given what garners financial success on this site. So, short of some bored millionaire financing something like that on a whim, I don't really see that happening.

And about update frequency, oddly, I didn't really feel like it took too long, maybe because I wasn't following the game too closely, or more likely the quality of the writing makes it feel worth the wait, however long that might be. Even in my cursory examination of the thread there weren't many people outright complaining about the long wait (lamenting it, yes) especially compared to something like Halfway House where Az gets mercilessly roasted for his similar glacial development pace.

And finally, I think some sprites got updated, Sunny gave me this "something is wrong here vibe" the entire chapter until I actually looked at old save screenshots and noticed that she looks different, and while I don't want to knock on the amateur art style of the game (I honestly find it quite endearing) the need of most authors here to give all female characters boobs that can eclipse the Sun is getting to be more than a little grating to me.

Overall I'm happy that the game is still under development and I'm hoping that no matter what happens to it in the long run we could maybe still get closure in a different media form, be it a short story or maybe just a script. It would be a colossal waste to just drop.

 

[Grimnir098]

Concealing the consequences of choices. There's a point in this episode where the MC must choose between morally dubious action (A) and equally dubious action (B) to get what he wants. Choosing A or B leads to roughly the same conclusion, so the credulous/dumb player (namely, yours truly) cusses out Worlaix for throwing in a pseudo choice. But... much later in the chapter, a major NPC reacts much differently to the MC's action depending on his choice. The dev has successfully 'hidden the ball' from the player... making a significant choice initially seem inconsequential. Bravo, Worlaix!

Can you just say what the decision is? I looked through the last chapter and couldn't find anything that stands out. I don't really want to replay the chapter so soon again just to potentially find what I missed.
If you're worried about spoiling anyone who hasn't played the latest chapter yet, just throw it in a spoiler.

 

[Raife]

Can you just say what the decision is? I looked through the last chapter and couldn't find anything that stands out. I don't really want to replay the chapter so soon again just to potentially find what I missed.
If you're worried about spoiling anyone who hasn't played the latest chapter yet, just throw it in a spoiler.

It's this: choosing between reporting to the guard and hiring the goons to rough up the shopkeeper. Same immediate result, but Anesteya's reaction much later in the chapter changes. It's just clever.

 

[Vasin]

Turns out The Bite: Revenant got an update recently that I've missed.

Gotta be honest here, I don't think this update is worth playing currently. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any issues with the writing, it's just the sequencing and pacing.

This feels like a first third of a tv show episode, all set up and we're not even getting to the 2nd act of the plot beat, let alone payoff and resolution. I think it would have been better served with a more substantial chunk of content later down the line, especially since previous update was reasonably recent still.

Unless you're into having a joyride with The Arbiter, there are some cool insights into her character. Otherwise I don't know why this update would get released short of feeling obliged to meet some kind of time crunch standard for patrons or something.

 

[Jaike]

I don't know what I think of it, but I want to point out Ellen Vague. A new VN with a female protagonist who isn't a naive virgin or a cheating or cuckquean wife or girlfriend, but an erotica writer without inspiration who's in her own words "horny as hell".

You may not like a few... intense expressions, silly names for some characters, the masturbation content, or the abrupt endings for unimplemented paths. But the mystery and the dialogue writing are stronger parts. See for yourself.

This looks designed to offend a few here though:

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[jufot]

I have some concerns about the latest The Bite: Revenant as well. I liked what little there was, though I agree it wasn't worth an episode.

What bothered me this time around was the MC. I'm not a fan of protagonists throwing petulant, rage-filled tantrums against innocent third parties. This episode has had a lot of that. It felt like he was trying to show everyone how he is a tough, macho, man's man who will have his way if he just yells loudly enough. Tried being the key word. I get the emotional context, but he just looked pathetic. Especially since the targets of his aggression are all more powerful than him, owe him nothing, and simply humour him out of kindness.

Then there was the whole juvenile nonsense with "Cranky" and "Baldie". If that's the level of humour on offer, I'd rather have the game stick to its stronger suits

 

[Dessolos]

Not gonna lie after recently playing The Neverwhere Tales ,Nephilim and The Seven realms got curious if they made the list on this thread and I was a bit surprised I didn't see them on front page. Tho I probably have more of a loose criteria on my personal story first game list. I was just more surprised because how much I got into the story of those games. But I can almost see why with Seven Realms won't make it as it feels like there is almost to many sex scenes there. More surprised about the other 2

 

[jufot]

The Neverwhere Tales ,Nephilim and The Seven realms

My concerns about TNT are dotted around this thread. If it gets its act together in the next chapter or two, it might still make the list I haven't played Nephilim so can't comment on that. The Seven Realms is nonsensical porn.

 

[Dessolos]

My concerns about TNT are dotted around this thread. If it gets its act together in the next chapter or two, it might still make the list I haven't played Nephilim so can't comment on that. The Seven Realms is nonsensical porn.

Makes sense I think I was more surprised because of how much I enjoyed the story aspect from all 3 games. My personal criteria of story first is more simple and loose. I just need the story to always feel like it's moving forward which all 3 do for me. But that's just me and simple and loose won't cut it as if you aren't critical you will end up with way to many games fitting said description haha.

 

[Tlaero]

This looks designed to offend a few here though:

Well, I certainly disagree with it...

Tlaero