Recommending Story-first games

[osanaiko]

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

The trouble with flying the storyline/character motivations too close to "realism" is that it becomes nearly impossible to contrive the volume and frequency of sex scenes required to maintain mainstream pornogamers' interest. Or you bump into some dark and nasty corners of the human condition (abuse of power, rape, sex slavery, enforced prostitution etc).

It is of course not impossible to achieve, but the evidence abounds that there is only a small percentage of the game authors who have the skills to pull it off.

 

[EndlessNights]

This and Game of Hearts is two really great games I just found where the writer actually knows how to write an engaging script.

For Game of Hearts in particular, the way the writer described it's scenes are so good that it makes me wish the dev write a game that is not sexually-focused.
Cuz Game of Hearts heavy focus is on it's intercourse scenes, and honestly it's just gets tiring to read hours of intercourses description.

I feel similarly about Game of Hearts. At this point, it's mostly sex scenes with a bit of a story and a touch of worldbuilding tacked on, but at least they are good sex scenes which isn't something we always get with AVNs. I like the writing, the relationships, and particularly the focus on seduction rather than coercive corruption (this probably depends on your choices -- I've only done one run in the game so I'm not sure how differently the MC acts on different routes). The emphasis on older, curvier LIs is a breath of fresh air and to my taste. There is also good potential for some interesting drama and exploration of ethical quandaries down the line. The MC has empathy and isn't inherently evil, but his powers will always draw women to him. How will he treat them? Will he ever learn to say no and not always seek out sex? Will he ever not selfishly try to break up relationships that might actually be healthy and fulfilling?

It's probably not a good candidate for the list as long as it remains mostly sex scenes. Perhaps the best case scenario is that it will ultimately follow a similar path as Pale Carnations. PC has quite long sex scenes that always take up a major portion of every update, but it still manages to devote enough time to the story and character development to keep me engaged and wondering what will happen next.

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

 

[camube]

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

this is what he wrote on his first subscriber post

Think of 'Silence of the lambs' meets 'The Wire' and 'One tree hill' but with porn and worse dialogue and plot and you have The Copycat in a nutshell. The Copycat is an erotic NTR focused Visual Novel game with themes from horror, high school drama and gangland intrigue

I also personally think one the 2 worst thing about The Copycat is it's 95 plot synopsis. Instead of what was written there, I would just wrote the "silence of the lamb and the wire" part instead.

There's a good writer that just so happen is currently writing that story. Just like Game of Hearts writer.
The copycat writer is good, you should try the game.

This Copycat writer understand character's voices. In that regard, it reminds me of ORS just a bit. The underrated thing about Evakiss is that she understand how to write her characters in different voices. Not many renpy avn writers are able to do that actually. And Copycat writer write at least the main characters well enough.

It warrants a try just from it's fleshed out alternate ending alone and how you reached those endings (through your choice).
When i first reached the first alternate ending, i did not expect the game to end or end that way but then I was like, "okay, the writer has talent".

Based on his subscribers post, he also seems like he's aware of scope creep, and try to avoid it.
He also said he intends to finish the game this year based on his posts.

I know people dislike certain things. Like I personally dislike incest. I legit can't stand reading a story where incest is the main drive of the VN.
But there are also VNs that have incest as a spice but not the main content. Desert Stalker comes to mind. The way I play Desert stalker, I say no to all incest contents and just reject it.
Desert Stalker is enjoyable despite having incest elements, and thankfully on that you can avoid it.

On The Copycat, the MC being bullied by another student is not an avoidable element, but I personally don't see The Copycat as an NTR. I see that more for search tag purpose.

The female MC is single. NTR means "taken by another". She's not taken by anyone cuz she in't currently in a relationship with anyone. Her husband passed away and she's single.

Within the story she's the one that decides to investigate her husband's death. The story gave her agency by making her the one who decide that she wants to investigate her husband's death. And then it became "NTR" because of that choice.
Blackmail is probably a better tag than NTR to be honest with you.
And saying this is probably a spoiler cuz the blackmail doesn't happen until later in the story.

 

[Slick Bean]

Well ... you need to understand something very important about adult entertainment:
Most of the texts are written by professional writers, published, acclaimed, sold out on the shelves of libraries everywhere in the world. Many of the most intense erotic scenes are actually well hidden in the novels you read by the time your reach adult status - the school has fed you the most drama, the most intrigue - the wonderful thing about those old texts is - they are mostly public domain - so any actual gaming writer can go pull the huge inspiration out of there with the masterfully described intimate scenes that have schorced the tender bits of guys and girrls the world over for centuries.

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

I feel similarly about Game of Hearts. At this point, it's mostly sex scenes with a bit of a story and a touch of worldbuilding tacked on, but at least they are good sex scenes which isn't something we always get with AVNs. I like the writing, the relationships, and particularly the focus on seduction rather than coercive corruption (this probably depends on your choices -- I've only done one run in the game so I'm not sure how differently the MC acts on different routes). The emphasis on older, curvier LIs is a breath of fresh air and to my taste. There is also good potential for some interesting drama and exploration of ethical quandaries down the line. The MC has empathy and isn't inherently evil, but his powers will always draw women to him. How will he treat them? Will he ever learn to say no and not always seek out sex? Will he ever not selfishly try to break up relationships that might actually be healthy and fulfilling?

It's probably not a good candidate for the list as long as it remains mostly sex scenes. Perhaps the best case scenario is that it will ultimately follow a similar path as Pale Carnations. PC has quite long sex scenes that always take up a major portion of every update, but it still manages to devote enough time to the story and character development to keep me engaged and wondering what will happen next.

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

this is what he wrote on his first subscriber post

I also personally think one the 2 worst thing about The Copycat is it's 95 plot synopsis. Instead of what was written there, I would just wrote the "silence of the lamb and the wire" part instead.

There's a good writer that just so happen is currently writing that story. Just like Game of Hearts writer.
The copycat writer is good, you should try the game.

This Copycat writer understand character's voices. In that regard, it reminds me of ORS just a bit. The underrated thing about Evakiss is that she understand how to write her characters in different voices. Not many renpy avn writers are able to do that actually. And Copycat writer write at least the main characters well enough.

It warrants a try just from it's fleshed out alternate ending alone and how you reached those endings (through your choice).
When i first reached the first alternate ending, i did not expect the game to end or end that way but then I was like, "okay, the writer has talent".

Based on his subscribers post, he also seems like he's aware of scope creep, and try to avoid it.
He also said he intends to finish the game this year based on his posts.

I know people dislike certain things. Like I personally dislike incest. I legit can't stand reading a story where incest is the main drive of the VN.
But there are also VNs that have incest as a spice but not the main content. Desert Stalker comes to mind. The way I play Desert stalker, I say no to all incest contents and just reject it.
Desert Stalker is enjoyable despite having incest elements, and thankfully on that you can avoid it.

On The Copycat, the MC being bullied by another student is not an avoidable element, but I personally don't see The Copycat as an NTR. I see that more for search tag purpose.

The female MC is single. NTR means "taken by another". She's not taken by anyone cuz she in't currently in a relationship with anyone. Her husband passed away and she's single.

Within the story she's the one that decides to investigate her husband's death. The story gave her agency by making her the one who decide that she wants to investigate her husband's death. And then it became "NTR" because of that choice.
Blackmail is probably a better tag than NTR to be honest with you.
And saying this is probably a spoiler cuz the blackmail doesn't happen until later in the story.

We got porn actors, writers, producers, awards all over the internet, yet gaming devs still struggle. How? Why?
We got blockbuster movies that sell in the billions and still games struggle to actually emulate the action.

Barbie Heimer has a chad Scientist that gets pssy literally dropped like candy over him in the way even most of the most acclaimed games here shy from.
He even pawns his kid to the neighbors and forgets about him - literally forgets to be a dad - to accomodate his wife wanting sex and nothing else from him.
You could literally play games better paced and more believable than how Cris Nolan portraid the lead scientist Oppenhimer banging girls like pillows all over the place with literally no rhyme, reason or even plot relevance, not to mention the total lack of any actual visual prowess or intensity.
Oppenheimer- the porn actor - the movie.

 

[jufot]

I'm finally catching up with my ever-growing backlog, so here are some brief thoughts.

Rebirth has finally had something interesting happen, after months and months of pure drudgery! I might not even abandon it, depending on how the next update goes.

The latest Camp Klondike is predictably great. We learn more about Valentina's past. It relates to Merit, of course, and it's building up to a crescendo with the next (and last) chapter. The events are as erotic and sexy as ever, and has even more lessons to offer that will sadly fly over the heads of most.

Simple Beginnings is quickly becoming one of my favourites. This latest chapter has the story's first major crossroads, but only one of the branches is there for now. It's a beautifully tragic episode and ends with a massive cliffhanger, so be warned The dev is undecided, but likely intends to complete the entire story with this one route (story, not LI) and then add the other(s) afterwards. There are minor spoilers to be found in the script, so I recommend playing blind.

A Father's Sins continues to show us you don't need sex to deliver a VN with a compelling story. I'm not usually a fan of Chosen One narratives, but it works well here as MC is regularly humbled by the powers that be, which keeps any potential cockiness in check. The dev is crazy punctual with his deadlines and delivers chapter after chapter each month. I hope he doesn't get burned out.

For the first time, plot development takes a back seat with Occultus: DoD's latest chapter as we get some LI development and branching instead. That usually implies cheap fan service, but it was all unexpectedly mature. Trinity's path in particular was surprising - I was delighted and didn't see it coming at all. If an urban vampire noir with an absolutely gorgeous protagonist sounds appealing, I suggest giving it a shot

I still need to catch up with Zia, Nothing is Forever, Give me a Sun, and Intertwined, time permitting.

 

[CUNTBLAZER420]

Just here to plug one of my old favorites that went pretty underappreciated in its time: Fantasy Valley. Don't know if anyone's ever mentioned it. The story starts out pretty rough in its initial chapters but gets REALLY good in its second half. It is unfortunately abandoned and leaves you with a cliffhanger, but its complete enough to where I feel I can recommend it. Its actually a fairly lengthy game. If the art is a turn off, it also gets much, much better as the game goes along as well. Like also REALLY good. All of the screenshots in its thread are from those rough early chapters. Anyway, please take a look and give it a try if you haven't and if you like it maybe think about giving it a like and a positive review. Hopefully, we can revive some interest in this little gem.

 

[osanaiko]

I still need to catch up with Zia, Nothing is Forever, Give me a Sun, and Intertwined, time permitting.

Might be best to leave NIF for a bit longer, the chapter 7 release was split into two parts, so the actual progress in ch7 part 1 is not as great as in previous full chapters 4, 5 and 6. Note that it is still as long in terms of lines of dialogue as ch2 or 3 were, but because the consequences of previous choices are starting to land, there are a number of scenes that are only seen on certain routes and the apparent length to a user doing single play-through is not as great.

 

[camube]

Might be best to leave NIF for a bit longer, the chapter 7 release was split into two parts, so the actual progress in ch7 part 1 is not as great as in previous full chapters 4, 5 and 6. Note that it is still as long in terms of lines of dialogue as ch2 or 3 were, but because the consequences of previous choices are starting to land, there are a number of scenes that are only seen on certain routes and the apparent length to a user doing single play-through is not as great.

i really respect mrsilverlust for having the 4 Traits mechanic into the game. It wouldn't have been easy and probably complicate stuffs writing out the path doing that.
Linearly, i really like Nothing is Forever, it's good enough and the story make sense

btw osanaiko, can i ask you about Color of My Sound? does it have BGM yet? and if not, is it at a good enough stopping point to start playing?
Does it satisfy new player enough if they start today?
*and not talking about the intercourse scenes, asking about the plot

 

[osanaiko]

i really respect mrsilverlust for having the 4 Traits mechanic into the game. It wouldn't have been easy and probably complicate stuffs writing out the path doing that.
Linearly, i really like Nothing is Forever, it's good enough and the story make sense

btw osanaiko, can i ask you about Color of My Sound? does it have BGM yet? and if not, is it at a good enough stopping point to start playing?
Does it satisfy new player enough if they start today?
*and not talking about the intercourse scenes, asking about the plot

Sorry, but I don't have any insight regards progress of the next release or if there has been any music added.
Actually, I've had very little communications from the developer of Color of my Sound over the past several months. Personally it's somewhat disappointing, but of course I never had any real claim over the way the dev chooses to work. Recently he seems to not engage on F95 forum anymore, sticking to his discord and releasing lots of non-canon art renders of the characters to high level patrons. I'm not a patron (I've donated enough of my time and effort, not going to drop cash too LOL!) so I don't get any sense of the progress even from those posts.

 

[camube]

leaving dna episode 3 is out and it has a recap, which is great!

every story-first games need to have a recap if the update crosses 3-4 months mark, which most of them does

 

[Dathos]

Well ... you need to understand something very important about adult entertainment:
Most of the texts are written by professional writers, published, acclaimed, sold out on the shelves of libraries everywhere in the world. Many of the most intense erotic scenes are actually well hidden in the novels you read by the time your reach adult status - the school has fed you the most drama, the most intrigue - the wonderful thing about those old texts is - they are mostly public domain - so any actual gaming writer can go pull the huge inspiration out of there with the masterfully described intimate scenes that have schorced the tender bits of guys and girrls the world over for centuries.

*chuckles* Oh, I understand it rather well. I'm quite aware of the differences between adult entertainment and the alternatives in mainstream entertainment. I'm not new at this. I'm a retired person in my 50's, have been (among other things) a sex educator, worked in the publishing industry as well as in software development. I have an equally accomplished spouse with similar credits to her name.

A number of the games that have come up in this thread have produced some of the most engaging and interesting stories, adult or otherwise. Given my druthers, I'd prefer to have a good story first, with the sex and porn secondary, rather than sex and porn with a half-assed story added as an afterthought. I suspect that's the case of many of the folks who've engaged in this thread.

I won't apologize for being picky about what entertains or arouses me. Nor should anyone else, for that matter.

 

[jufot]

I don't know what I think of it, but I want to point out Ellen Vague. A new VN with a female protagonist who isn't a naive virgin or a cheating or cuckquean wife or girlfriend, but an erotica writer without inspiration who's in her own words "horny as hell".

Thanks for this, Jaike. It's janky, weird and unusual in the best way possible. I'm particularly a fan of Cecilia Beaver's cock. Wonderfully creative narrative device

 

[camube]

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

i sorted through f95zone tags and read reviews now. yeah some times i get spoiler'd but, it's better than spending time playing a game and figure out it's boring.

Also, for most games nowadays, i can figure out whether or not it's for in 1 or 2 chapters though. 1 chapter if its long enough, 2 chapters if it's short per chapter. Most of these games gets better in terms of story quality the longer they go because the author also gets more experience, but if i don't like the baseline, whether it's the premise, the inner monologues, the writing, the pacing, or whatever else, usually, i still wouldn't like it even many chapters in.

People said Artemis is one of the top games for AVN, and honestly, had I discover it this year instead of in 2022, i would've dropped it on chapter 2. I had a lot more time and leeway back then. Now i have less time and leeway to play games so i only play the ones i think might be good.

Hence the tag and reading reviews.

 

[jufot]

Thoughts on the latest Intertwined?

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And also, this scene bothered me enough to stop reading, take a screenshot and whine about it here:

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[Raife]

Given my druthers, I'd prefer to have a good story first, with the sex and porn secondary, rather than sex and porn with a half-assed story added as an afterthought. I suspect that's the case of many of the folks who've engaged in this thread.

I won't apologize for being picky about what entertains or arouses me. Nor should anyone else, for that matter.

Naturally, I agree with your sentiments... but you've also uh, proven the authenticity of your claimed age by using the expression 'given my druthers.'

That's a half-century line marker for sure... I never use the phrase, and I'm ancient -- as in, older than jufot ancient! It's also not a phrase that you hear among English speakers outside North America, either.

 

[jufot]

That's a half-century line marker for sure... I never use the phrase, and I'm ancient -- as in, older than jufot ancient! It's also not a phrase that you hear among English speakers outside North America, either.

Indeed, even as an "old" (by thread standards) it's the first I've heard of it.

 

[Dathos]

Naturally, I agree with your sentiments... but you've also uh, proven the authenticity of your claimed age by using the expression 'given my druthers.'

That's a half-century line marker for sure... I never use the phrase, and I'm ancient -- as in, older than jufot ancient! It's also not a phrase that you hear among English speakers outside North America, either.

*laughs* Yeah, it's not been in general use for decades now. It's part of my normal vernacular, so I hadn't even thought about it being a "new" expression for folks. First time I've been called out for having an old vocabulary, though!

 

[Raife]

*laughs* Yeah, it's not been in general use for decades now. It's part of my normal vernacular, so I hadn't even thought about it being a "new" expression for folks. First time I've been called out for having an old vocabulary, though!

Not a criticism... it's just an interesting phrase! It's a bit like 'balderdash' -- you occasionally hear that word used in the UK... particularly by a certain sort of journalist or politician, but almost never in North America.

FWIW, my grandparents used both expressions (druthers and balderdash) regularly -- but they spoke American English with the sort of now-extinct Yankee/mid-Atlantic accent once used by, say, Katherine Hepburn. Very much early 20th Century.

 

[jufot]

Thoughts on the latest Leaving DNA? I think it was a brilliant episode!

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[Impious Monk]

Thoughts on the latest Leaving DNA? I think it was a brilliant episode!

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Thanks Jufot, helpful and insightful feedback as always. I'm glad you enjoyed it.