Recommending Story-first games

[Vasin]

What bothered me this time around was the MC. I'm not a fan of protagonists throwing petulant, rage-filled tantrums against innocent third parties. This episode has had a lot of that.

Then there was the whole juvenile nonsense with "Cranky" and "Baldie". If that's the level of humour on offer, I'd rather have the game stick to its stronger suits

Interesting, I haven't read into it like that. For me it worked rather well, as I saw it not as rage filled but rather borne out of the feeling of powerlessness and impotence and the inability to actually do anything. It helped that as you point out, nobody actually took it seriously. It sort of fits with his character as well, so it's not out of left field.

A bigger concern for me is how things just sort of happen to fall into MCs lap. Ciara just gives him info he wants (and more) with 0 effort on his part, he gets showered with job opportunities at every turn, I'm afraid one of the future episode will be a buffet of feeding on random elder vampires to choose what power you want.

The Cranky and Baldie moment sort of tilted me as well, but not because of the humour (it was always kinda meh) but rather an abrupt shift in power dynamic. MC goes from quaking in his boots at mere thought of Runah to paling around with her like it's nobody's business. Like sure, she's an empath or something, she still cuts him way too much slack.

 

[noping123]

This looks designed to offend a few here though:

Well I must be a complete idiot.

All this time I thought "Logic" meant something way different than it apparently does!

 

[jufot]

A bigger concern for me is how things just sort of happen to fall into MCs lap. Ciara just gives him info he wants (and more) with 0 effort on his part, he gets showered with job opportunities at every turn, I'm afraid one of the future episode will be a buffet of feeding on random elder vampires to choose what power you want.

Good point. At first, it looked like Ciara was going for a trade of some sort, but then out of nowhere she looked bored and just gave him what he wanted. It's out of character for her. And yes, "elder buffet" is definitely in the cards.

MC goes from quaking in his boots at mere thought of Runah to paling around with her like it's nobody's business. Like sure, she's an empath or something, she still cuts him way too much slack.

Yeah, I get that this is a Chosen One story, but nobody knows that yet. He is just supposed to be a random nobody at this point, and the power players have far too much interest in him and keep him on a generously loose leash.

 

[Jaike]

Well, I certainly disagree with it...

Tlaero

Well I must be a complete idiot.

All this time I thought "Logic" meant something way different than it apparently does!

That's probably why the protagonist gets anonymous, emm.... "feedback" like this:

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I'm still iffy about the VN tho. There's definitely porniness in it, but I think there's something else there, too. There's a rich, maybe kinda scummy older guy, who'd be an ugly bastard and get sex the easy way in most games, but he rejects the protagonist if she offers quick sex because he wants to know the real her first. No idea where it ends up.

 

[Slick Bean]

Here you just prooved the point of him - asshole who gets sex dropped on him, from players who want to see ugly bastard getting sex handoffs by players who want to turn the game into nonsense sex but the plot armored bastard knows he already won because the blind and dumb whore offered herself already and villains like to twist the dagger into hapless brainless whores in most NTR games or whore Female MC games where she just offers herself with no rhyme no reason to absolute assholes. She gets lez sex and thus the whole narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself are moot.

who'd be an ugly bastard and get sex the easy way in most games

By this point, this game is pranking you with clues of a story b ut clearly decides to be mindless whore female MC game where you can pursue ugly assholes while they toy with you like you are nothing to them, like normal cheap villains.

 

[Slick Bean]

Tho point of the story is about first times for a long time - MC is the second death sentence childe who gets absolved rather dramatically surprising to the higher ups and he gets actual interest from the most powerful precisely because he is this disposable - already death sentence looming above him and the princeps is breeding down his neck with orders and missions, any one of them failed could mean his death becomes a reality.

A bigger concern for me is how things just sort of happen to fall into MCs lap

They give them to him as the matters stand to escalate, MC in many situations might look suspicious to rather guilty
The higher ups rub shoulders with MC to get a seat at the table where he is a pawn to be used with no reppercussions,
as any death row inmates can be use and abused in any and all ways immaginable as they cannonically have no chips at he table with them already being bottom of the food chain.

 

[Tlaero]

That's probably why the protagonist gets anonymous, emm.... "feedback" like this:

Then again, maybe by "logic" she means "digital logic," like NAND and NOR gates. I agree that hardware design isn't particularly sexy. Though even that could change if you were writing a cyberpunk game that contained computerized body augmentation...

Maybe a near future SF story in which LLMs are ruining the porn industry?

Tlaero

 

[Jaike]

Here you just prooved the point of him - asshole who gets sex dropped on him, from players who want to see ugly bastard getting sex handoffs by players who want to turn the game into nonsense sex but the plot armored bastard knows he already won because the blind and dumb whore offered herself already and villains like to twist the dagger into hapless brainless whores in most NTR games or whore Female MC games where she just offers herself with no rhyme no reason to absolute assholes. She gets lez sex and thus the whole narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself are moot.

By this point, this game is pranking you with clues of a story b ut clearly decides to be mindless whore female MC game where you can pursue ugly assholes while they toy with you like you are nothing to them, like normal cheap villains.

It could be that it's just a regular ugly bastard plotline and the devs just dressed it up a bit more... maybe to fool players or just to play with the trope. But if it is a "prank" like that, it's one that could go the other way just as easily. Hey maybe it becomes a romance plot and they marry in the end! I personally doubt it's ending up that wholesome tho.

It's a rorschach spot now. I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know where that plotline goes. I don't know if you have one, but you still can't tell the future. We can only wait, hope it won't be abandoned, and see where it goes.

Which "narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself" do you think became invalid because of the FF sex?

Oh, and you used "whore" 4 times, 3 times with "dumb" or worse, in 2 paragraphs with technically 3 sentences. I don't mind strong language, but don't you think that's a bit much when you're almost repeating yourself?

Hope you enjoyed playing it though.

Then again, maybe by "logic" she means "digital logic," like NAND and NOR gates. I agree that hardware design isn't particularly sexy. Though even that could change if you were writing a cyberpunk game that contained computerized body augmentation...

Don't know what digital logic is or how it differs from normal logic. But the protagonist looks like a trashy writer of mommy porn, if the titles are a clue, and used to be really impulsive, if a porny flashback is clue. So those thoughts tell us something about her character, and probably are a sign of the poor quality of her books. I certainly agree logic is important in adults stories or they quickly lose all stakes.

That's more words than I meant to write about a non-recommendation!

 

[Raife]

I have some concerns about the latest The Bite: Revenant as well. I liked what little there was, though I agree it wasn't worth an episode.

I'll mostly dissent from the sourpuss consensus view of the latest episode of _The Bite_: it was good, although overly abbreviated. I do agree with jufot's assessment of the humour... which was dopey and inappropriate, given the situation.

But I don't agree that we can draw meaningful inferences about the course of the game based on the last hour of gameplay. In particular:

I don't think we can glean too much about how the MC will gain power or the nature of vamp power. Yeah, sure, he could continue to gain power by somehow convincing elder vampires to allow him to bite them... although that sounds implausible. More likely, it will come down to the nature of the control/power tradeoff and how well the dev implements it.

My MC thinks that maintaining 'control' is important, so I'm allowing him to gain power _only_ in situations where doing so doesn't cost control. Thus, he only has a power rating of 4 by the end of the episode -- not enough to use even one Vampire power. So... I don't think there's too much danger of the MC becoming overpowered, IF (big if) the dev makes it clear that sacrificing control for power has some very negative consequences. (Zoey and the Baroness certainly think there are... but we haven't seen them yet.)

I also don't think we can conclude that Zoey is now in some sort of subordinate position vis-a-vis the MC, at least not yet. We haven't crossed the Rubicon in this respect like _Rebirth_ did some time ago. Yes, the MC is gaining power, but he still doesn't understand it or the world he's operating in, yet... and, if he's attempting to maintain 'control,' he still has less ability to actually use his power than Zoey does.

Could the game go off the rails in a bad way? Sure. Do I have some nits about this episode? Yes. But did the latest update develop the world in interesting ways? I think so.

 

[jufot]

I have been away from VNs for a while. A few updates have accumulated in the meantime, and I'm sharing a list if anyone has opinions

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  of Simple Beginnings
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  of Camp Klondike
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  of Occultus: DoD
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  of Give me a Sun
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  of Zia
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  of Retro Style Soviet Undies

I also need to catch up with A Father's Sins, Rise of the White Flower, and The Grey Dream. Thoughts?

 

[turbojoe]

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  of Occultus: DoD

Still waiting on an upload here on F95

 

[seek3r]

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  of Simple Beginnings
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  of Zia

... The Grey Dream. Thoughts?

I played the Simple Beginnings and Zia updates, enjoyed both and I didn't see "The Grey Dream", have to check it out.

I was this close to post this, I was missing my nightly bedtime reading


Edit:
Thoughts about The Grey Dream after I stopped mid? second episode:
too frequent and abrupt changes in camera angles
writing is ok, but doesn't really engage me. It's not a school setting, so thats a big plus but the corp setting is just not believable enough for me.

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I seem to be especially cranky today, so it gets put on hold and maybe I'll revisit it some day

 

[osanaiko]

jufot Nothing is Forever v0.7 came out as well.

 

[kotte]

It's not a school setting, so thats a big plus but the corp setting is just not believable enough for me.

I don't think The Grey Dream is the worst culprit in that category... With some games I find myself torn between being bored by all the tropes of school games, and realizing that a lot of the creators probably don't have enough experience of a real job to be able to describe a work setting with any realism...

Sometimes it is pure comedy though, and I just think to myself, "Just wait until you get a job, you poor sod. It's not going to be anything like that..."

 

[seek3r]

I don't think The Grey Dream is the worst culprit in that category... With some games I find myself torn between being bored by all the tropes of school games, and realizing that a lot of the creators probably don't have enough experience of a real job to be able to describe a work setting with any realism...

Sometimes it is pure comedy though, and I just think to myself, "Just wait until you get a job, you poor sod. It's not going to be anything like that..."

Ack.

I've got a conspiracy theory: what if the reason we don't see many corporate VNs is because they drain all the creativity from those that had the pleasure to experience them?

 

[yossa999]

Ack.

I've got a conspiracy theory: what if the reason we don't see many corporate VNs is because they drain all the creativity from those that had the pleasure to experience them?

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

 

[MrPocketRocket]

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

Oh my naive friend, you think that reality ever figure into any of the writing for AVNs? Maybe when it serves the AVN to be "slice of life" and go on a never ending conversation that has no place in entertainment, and would be dull in real life. Now, if we could just see people try. That would be my ask.

 

[camube]

I just found a game called the copycat.

I don't know whether it's a "story-first" game but it's definitely a story-heavy game. and a great one at that.

As a novel game, it's great cuz some of our choices actually matter in the sense that it leads to endings that is fleshed out too.
The characters decisions make sense based on the premise and situations they are being put through.
The story would still stand on it's own even if all the intercourse scenes are not depicted explicitly

The writer changes the state of some of it's characters too mid-game, which make the stakes of the game feels even more real (on top of the initial premise).

This is a really great story-focused game, even if the subject matter is heavily dislike, at least on this forum. I don't know if i could recommend it in general but, I actually find the story engaging.

This and Game of Hearts is two really great games I just found where the writer actually knows how to write an engaging script.

For Game of Hearts in particular, the way the writer described it's scenes are so good that it makes me wish the dev write a game that is not sexually-focused.
Cuz Game of Hearts heavy focus is on it's intercourse scenes, and honestly it's just gets tiring to read hours of intercourses description.

 

[Dathos]

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

 

[osanaiko]

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

The trouble with flying the storyline/character motivations too close to "realism" is that it becomes nearly impossible to contrive the volume and frequency of sex scenes required to maintain mainstream pornogamers' interest. Or you bump into some dark and nasty corners of the human condition (abuse of power, rape, sex slavery, enforced prostitution etc).

It is of course not impossible to achieve, but the evidence abounds that there is only a small percentage of the game authors who have the skills to pull it off.