Recommending Story-first games

[Slick Bean]

Here you just prooved the point of him - asshole who gets sex dropped on him, from players who want to see ugly bastard getting sex handoffs by players who want to turn the game into nonsense sex but the plot armored bastard knows he already won because the blind and dumb whore offered herself already and villains like to twist the dagger into hapless brainless whores in most NTR games or whore Female MC games where she just offers herself with no rhyme no reason to absolute assholes. She gets lez sex and thus the whole narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself are moot.

who'd be an ugly bastard and get sex the easy way in most games

By this point, this game is pranking you with clues of a story b ut clearly decides to be mindless whore female MC game where you can pursue ugly assholes while they toy with you like you are nothing to them, like normal cheap villains.

 

[Slick Bean]

Tho point of the story is about first times for a long time - MC is the second death sentence childe who gets absolved rather dramatically surprising to the higher ups and he gets actual interest from the most powerful precisely because he is this disposable - already death sentence looming above him and the princeps is breeding down his neck with orders and missions, any one of them failed could mean his death becomes a reality.

A bigger concern for me is how things just sort of happen to fall into MCs lap

They give them to him as the matters stand to escalate, MC in many situations might look suspicious to rather guilty
The higher ups rub shoulders with MC to get a seat at the table where he is a pawn to be used with no reppercussions,
as any death row inmates can be use and abused in any and all ways immaginable as they cannonically have no chips at he table with them already being bottom of the food chain.

 

[Tlaero]

That's probably why the protagonist gets anonymous, emm.... "feedback" like this:

Then again, maybe by "logic" she means "digital logic," like NAND and NOR gates. I agree that hardware design isn't particularly sexy. Though even that could change if you were writing a cyberpunk game that contained computerized body augmentation...

Maybe a near future SF story in which LLMs are ruining the porn industry?

Tlaero

 

[Jaike]

Here you just prooved the point of him - asshole who gets sex dropped on him, from players who want to see ugly bastard getting sex handoffs by players who want to turn the game into nonsense sex but the plot armored bastard knows he already won because the blind and dumb whore offered herself already and villains like to twist the dagger into hapless brainless whores in most NTR games or whore Female MC games where she just offers herself with no rhyme no reason to absolute assholes. She gets lez sex and thus the whole narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself are moot.

By this point, this game is pranking you with clues of a story b ut clearly decides to be mindless whore female MC game where you can pursue ugly assholes while they toy with you like you are nothing to them, like normal cheap villains.

It could be that it's just a regular ugly bastard plotline and the devs just dressed it up a bit more... maybe to fool players or just to play with the trope. But if it is a "prank" like that, it's one that could go the other way just as easily. Hey maybe it becomes a romance plot and they marry in the end! I personally doubt it's ending up that wholesome tho.

It's a rorschach spot now. I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know where that plotline goes. I don't know if you have one, but you still can't tell the future. We can only wait, hope it won't be abandoned, and see where it goes.

Which "narcissistic self agrandising thoughts to herself" do you think became invalid because of the FF sex?

Oh, and you used "whore" 4 times, 3 times with "dumb" or worse, in 2 paragraphs with technically 3 sentences. I don't mind strong language, but don't you think that's a bit much when you're almost repeating yourself?

Hope you enjoyed playing it though.

Then again, maybe by "logic" she means "digital logic," like NAND and NOR gates. I agree that hardware design isn't particularly sexy. Though even that could change if you were writing a cyberpunk game that contained computerized body augmentation...

Don't know what digital logic is or how it differs from normal logic. But the protagonist looks like a trashy writer of mommy porn, if the titles are a clue, and used to be really impulsive, if a porny flashback is clue. So those thoughts tell us something about her character, and probably are a sign of the poor quality of her books. I certainly agree logic is important in adults stories or they quickly lose all stakes.

That's more words than I meant to write about a non-recommendation!

 

[Raife]

I have some concerns about the latest The Bite: Revenant as well. I liked what little there was, though I agree it wasn't worth an episode.

I'll mostly dissent from the sourpuss consensus view of the latest episode of _The Bite_: it was good, although overly abbreviated. I do agree with jufot's assessment of the humour... which was dopey and inappropriate, given the situation.

But I don't agree that we can draw meaningful inferences about the course of the game based on the last hour of gameplay. In particular:

I don't think we can glean too much about how the MC will gain power or the nature of vamp power. Yeah, sure, he could continue to gain power by somehow convincing elder vampires to allow him to bite them... although that sounds implausible. More likely, it will come down to the nature of the control/power tradeoff and how well the dev implements it.

My MC thinks that maintaining 'control' is important, so I'm allowing him to gain power _only_ in situations where doing so doesn't cost control. Thus, he only has a power rating of 4 by the end of the episode -- not enough to use even one Vampire power. So... I don't think there's too much danger of the MC becoming overpowered, IF (big if) the dev makes it clear that sacrificing control for power has some very negative consequences. (Zoey and the Baroness certainly think there are... but we haven't seen them yet.)

I also don't think we can conclude that Zoey is now in some sort of subordinate position vis-a-vis the MC, at least not yet. We haven't crossed the Rubicon in this respect like _Rebirth_ did some time ago. Yes, the MC is gaining power, but he still doesn't understand it or the world he's operating in, yet... and, if he's attempting to maintain 'control,' he still has less ability to actually use his power than Zoey does.

Could the game go off the rails in a bad way? Sure. Do I have some nits about this episode? Yes. But did the latest update develop the world in interesting ways? I think so.

 

[jufot]

I have been away from VNs for a while. A few updates have accumulated in the meantime, and I'm sharing a list if anyone has opinions

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  of Simple Beginnings
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  of Camp Klondike
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  of Occultus: DoD
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  of Give me a Sun
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  of Zia
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  of Retro Style Soviet Undies

I also need to catch up with A Father's Sins, Rise of the White Flower, and The Grey Dream. Thoughts?

 

[turbojoe]

• You must be registered to see the links
  of Occultus: DoD

Still waiting on an upload here on F95

 

[seek3r]

• You must be registered to see the links
  of Simple Beginnings
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  of Zia

... The Grey Dream. Thoughts?

I played the Simple Beginnings and Zia updates, enjoyed both and I didn't see "The Grey Dream", have to check it out.

I was this close to post this, I was missing my nightly bedtime reading


Edit:
Thoughts about The Grey Dream after I stopped mid? second episode:
too frequent and abrupt changes in camera angles
writing is ok, but doesn't really engage me. It's not a school setting, so thats a big plus but the corp setting is just not believable enough for me.

Spoiler: story spoilers

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I seem to be especially cranky today, so it gets put on hold and maybe I'll revisit it some day

 

[osanaiko]

jufot Nothing is Forever v0.7 came out as well.

 

[kotte]

It's not a school setting, so thats a big plus but the corp setting is just not believable enough for me.

I don't think The Grey Dream is the worst culprit in that category... With some games I find myself torn between being bored by all the tropes of school games, and realizing that a lot of the creators probably don't have enough experience of a real job to be able to describe a work setting with any realism...

Sometimes it is pure comedy though, and I just think to myself, "Just wait until you get a job, you poor sod. It's not going to be anything like that..."

 

[seek3r]

I don't think The Grey Dream is the worst culprit in that category... With some games I find myself torn between being bored by all the tropes of school games, and realizing that a lot of the creators probably don't have enough experience of a real job to be able to describe a work setting with any realism...

Sometimes it is pure comedy though, and I just think to myself, "Just wait until you get a job, you poor sod. It's not going to be anything like that..."

Ack.

I've got a conspiracy theory: what if the reason we don't see many corporate VNs is because they drain all the creativity from those that had the pleasure to experience them?

 

[yossa999]

Ack.

I've got a conspiracy theory: what if the reason we don't see many corporate VNs is because they drain all the creativity from those that had the pleasure to experience them?

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

 

[MrPocketRocket]

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

Oh my naive friend, you think that reality ever figure into any of the writing for AVNs? Maybe when it serves the AVN to be "slice of life" and go on a never ending conversation that has no place in entertainment, and would be dull in real life. Now, if we could just see people try. That would be my ask.

 

[camube]

I just found a game called the copycat.

I don't know whether it's a "story-first" game but it's definitely a story-heavy game. and a great one at that.

As a novel game, it's great cuz some of our choices actually matter in the sense that it leads to endings that is fleshed out too.
The characters decisions make sense based on the premise and situations they are being put through.
The story would still stand on it's own even if all the intercourse scenes are not depicted explicitly

The writer changes the state of some of it's characters too mid-game, which make the stakes of the game feels even more real (on top of the initial premise).

This is a really great story-focused game, even if the subject matter is heavily dislike, at least on this forum. I don't know if i could recommend it in general but, I actually find the story engaging.

This and Game of Hearts is two really great games I just found where the writer actually knows how to write an engaging script.

For Game of Hearts in particular, the way the writer described it's scenes are so good that it makes me wish the dev write a game that is not sexually-focused.
Cuz Game of Hearts heavy focus is on it's intercourse scenes, and honestly it's just gets tiring to read hours of intercourses description.

 

[Dathos]

My guess is that a corporate plot requires fairly mature characters with some life experience behind them. And they are much more complex and difficult to write than yesterday’s teenagers in college, with their teenage motivation and quite primitive logic.
I don't know, but when I see college professors acting like stupid, hormonal teenagers, I just smirk and say to myself, "What did you expect from a porn comedy?" But when I see characters who are over 40 and in management positions, but they behave the same way, my palm automatically meets my face.

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

 

[osanaiko]

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

The trouble with flying the storyline/character motivations too close to "realism" is that it becomes nearly impossible to contrive the volume and frequency of sex scenes required to maintain mainstream pornogamers' interest. Or you bump into some dark and nasty corners of the human condition (abuse of power, rape, sex slavery, enforced prostitution etc).

It is of course not impossible to achieve, but the evidence abounds that there is only a small percentage of the game authors who have the skills to pull it off.

 

[EndlessNights]

This and Game of Hearts is two really great games I just found where the writer actually knows how to write an engaging script.

For Game of Hearts in particular, the way the writer described it's scenes are so good that it makes me wish the dev write a game that is not sexually-focused.
Cuz Game of Hearts heavy focus is on it's intercourse scenes, and honestly it's just gets tiring to read hours of intercourses description.

I feel similarly about Game of Hearts. At this point, it's mostly sex scenes with a bit of a story and a touch of worldbuilding tacked on, but at least they are good sex scenes which isn't something we always get with AVNs. I like the writing, the relationships, and particularly the focus on seduction rather than coercive corruption (this probably depends on your choices -- I've only done one run in the game so I'm not sure how differently the MC acts on different routes). The emphasis on older, curvier LIs is a breath of fresh air and to my taste. There is also good potential for some interesting drama and exploration of ethical quandaries down the line. The MC has empathy and isn't inherently evil, but his powers will always draw women to him. How will he treat them? Will he ever learn to say no and not always seek out sex? Will he ever not selfishly try to break up relationships that might actually be healthy and fulfilling?

It's probably not a good candidate for the list as long as it remains mostly sex scenes. Perhaps the best case scenario is that it will ultimately follow a similar path as Pale Carnations. PC has quite long sex scenes that always take up a major portion of every update, but it still manages to devote enough time to the story and character development to keep me engaged and wondering what will happen next.

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

 

[camube]

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

this is what he wrote on his first subscriber post

Think of 'Silence of the lambs' meets 'The Wire' and 'One tree hill' but with porn and worse dialogue and plot and you have The Copycat in a nutshell. The Copycat is an erotic NTR focused Visual Novel game with themes from horror, high school drama and gangland intrigue

I also personally think one the 2 worst thing about The Copycat is it's 95 plot synopsis. Instead of what was written there, I would just wrote the "silence of the lamb and the wire" part instead.

There's a good writer that just so happen is currently writing that story. Just like Game of Hearts writer.
The copycat writer is good, you should try the game.

This Copycat writer understand character's voices. In that regard, it reminds me of ORS just a bit. The underrated thing about Evakiss is that she understand how to write her characters in different voices. Not many renpy avn writers are able to do that actually. And Copycat writer write at least the main characters well enough.

It warrants a try just from it's fleshed out alternate ending alone and how you reached those endings (through your choice).
When i first reached the first alternate ending, i did not expect the game to end or end that way but then I was like, "okay, the writer has talent".

Based on his subscribers post, he also seems like he's aware of scope creep, and try to avoid it.
He also said he intends to finish the game this year based on his posts.

I know people dislike certain things. Like I personally dislike incest. I legit can't stand reading a story where incest is the main drive of the VN.
But there are also VNs that have incest as a spice but not the main content. Desert Stalker comes to mind. The way I play Desert stalker, I say no to all incest contents and just reject it.
Desert Stalker is enjoyable despite having incest elements, and thankfully on that you can avoid it.

On The Copycat, the MC being bullied by another student is not an avoidable element, but I personally don't see The Copycat as an NTR. I see that more for search tag purpose.

The female MC is single. NTR means "taken by another". She's not taken by anyone cuz she in't currently in a relationship with anyone. Her husband passed away and she's single.

Within the story she's the one that decides to investigate her husband's death. The story gave her agency by making her the one who decide that she wants to investigate her husband's death. And then it became "NTR" because of that choice.
Blackmail is probably a better tag than NTR to be honest with you.
And saying this is probably a spoiler cuz the blackmail doesn't happen until later in the story.

 

[Slick Bean]

Well ... you need to understand something very important about adult entertainment:
Most of the texts are written by professional writers, published, acclaimed, sold out on the shelves of libraries everywhere in the world. Many of the most intense erotic scenes are actually well hidden in the novels you read by the time your reach adult status - the school has fed you the most drama, the most intrigue - the wonderful thing about those old texts is - they are mostly public domain - so any actual gaming writer can go pull the huge inspiration out of there with the masterfully described intimate scenes that have schorced the tender bits of guys and girrls the world over for centuries.

I feel your pain. The number of AVNs with characters who actually have a clue is very, very short. It's difficult enough to find a protagonist that isn't yet another 18-19 year old kid cluelessly navigating the world, but is it too much to ask for a protagonist who isn't a complete moron? (Probably.)

I get that for some odd reason this kind of protagonist is popular... I mean, I don't understand it, but it does seem to be the common thread for many games. It's actually one of the reasons I lurk in this thread. Many of the games here that are more about a story than the porn actually have some decent writing in them. It's the sifting for something decent amidst the dross that's tiring.

I feel similarly about Game of Hearts. At this point, it's mostly sex scenes with a bit of a story and a touch of worldbuilding tacked on, but at least they are good sex scenes which isn't something we always get with AVNs. I like the writing, the relationships, and particularly the focus on seduction rather than coercive corruption (this probably depends on your choices -- I've only done one run in the game so I'm not sure how differently the MC acts on different routes). The emphasis on older, curvier LIs is a breath of fresh air and to my taste. There is also good potential for some interesting drama and exploration of ethical quandaries down the line. The MC has empathy and isn't inherently evil, but his powers will always draw women to him. How will he treat them? Will he ever learn to say no and not always seek out sex? Will he ever not selfishly try to break up relationships that might actually be healthy and fulfilling?

It's probably not a good candidate for the list as long as it remains mostly sex scenes. Perhaps the best case scenario is that it will ultimately follow a similar path as Pale Carnations. PC has quite long sex scenes that always take up a major portion of every update, but it still manages to devote enough time to the story and character development to keep me engaged and wondering what will happen next.

I'd never heard of The Copycat before you mentioned it. Browsing the thread has left me a bit puzzled. It's an NTR game where a guy named Jamal bullies the poorly endowed, wimpy MC and has sex with his mom? I appreciate choices that matter and multiple endings, but this sounds like very familiar territory with heavy racial stereotyping to boot. Am I wrong?

this is what he wrote on his first subscriber post

I also personally think one the 2 worst thing about The Copycat is it's 95 plot synopsis. Instead of what was written there, I would just wrote the "silence of the lamb and the wire" part instead.

There's a good writer that just so happen is currently writing that story. Just like Game of Hearts writer.
The copycat writer is good, you should try the game.

This Copycat writer understand character's voices. In that regard, it reminds me of ORS just a bit. The underrated thing about Evakiss is that she understand how to write her characters in different voices. Not many renpy avn writers are able to do that actually. And Copycat writer write at least the main characters well enough.

It warrants a try just from it's fleshed out alternate ending alone and how you reached those endings (through your choice).
When i first reached the first alternate ending, i did not expect the game to end or end that way but then I was like, "okay, the writer has talent".

Based on his subscribers post, he also seems like he's aware of scope creep, and try to avoid it.
He also said he intends to finish the game this year based on his posts.

I know people dislike certain things. Like I personally dislike incest. I legit can't stand reading a story where incest is the main drive of the VN.
But there are also VNs that have incest as a spice but not the main content. Desert Stalker comes to mind. The way I play Desert stalker, I say no to all incest contents and just reject it.
Desert Stalker is enjoyable despite having incest elements, and thankfully on that you can avoid it.

On The Copycat, the MC being bullied by another student is not an avoidable element, but I personally don't see The Copycat as an NTR. I see that more for search tag purpose.

The female MC is single. NTR means "taken by another". She's not taken by anyone cuz she in't currently in a relationship with anyone. Her husband passed away and she's single.

Within the story she's the one that decides to investigate her husband's death. The story gave her agency by making her the one who decide that she wants to investigate her husband's death. And then it became "NTR" because of that choice.
Blackmail is probably a better tag than NTR to be honest with you.
And saying this is probably a spoiler cuz the blackmail doesn't happen until later in the story.

We got porn actors, writers, producers, awards all over the internet, yet gaming devs still struggle. How? Why?
We got blockbuster movies that sell in the billions and still games struggle to actually emulate the action.

Barbie Heimer has a chad Scientist that gets pssy literally dropped like candy over him in the way even most of the most acclaimed games here shy from.
He even pawns his kid to the neighbors and forgets about him - literally forgets to be a dad - to accomodate his wife wanting sex and nothing else from him.
You could literally play games better paced and more believable than how Cris Nolan portraid the lead scientist Oppenhimer banging girls like pillows all over the place with literally no rhyme, reason or even plot relevance, not to mention the total lack of any actual visual prowess or intensity.
Oppenheimer- the porn actor - the movie.

 

[jufot]

I'm finally catching up with my ever-growing backlog, so here are some brief thoughts.

Rebirth has finally had something interesting happen, after months and months of pure drudgery! I might not even abandon it, depending on how the next update goes.

The latest Camp Klondike is predictably great. We learn more about Valentina's past. It relates to Merit, of course, and it's building up to a crescendo with the next (and last) chapter. The events are as erotic and sexy as ever, and has even more lessons to offer that will sadly fly over the heads of most.

Simple Beginnings is quickly becoming one of my favourites. This latest chapter has the story's first major crossroads, but only one of the branches is there for now. It's a beautifully tragic episode and ends with a massive cliffhanger, so be warned The dev is undecided, but likely intends to complete the entire story with this one route (story, not LI) and then add the other(s) afterwards. There are minor spoilers to be found in the script, so I recommend playing blind.

A Father's Sins continues to show us you don't need sex to deliver a VN with a compelling story. I'm not usually a fan of Chosen One narratives, but it works well here as MC is regularly humbled by the powers that be, which keeps any potential cockiness in check. The dev is crazy punctual with his deadlines and delivers chapter after chapter each month. I hope he doesn't get burned out.

For the first time, plot development takes a back seat with Occultus: DoD's latest chapter as we get some LI development and branching instead. That usually implies cheap fan service, but it was all unexpectedly mature. Trinity's path in particular was surprising - I was delighted and didn't see it coming at all. If an urban vampire noir with an absolutely gorgeous protagonist sounds appealing, I suggest giving it a shot

I still need to catch up with Zia, Nothing is Forever, Give me a Sun, and Intertwined, time permitting.