Recommending Story-first games

[camube]

How do you feel about giving negative reviews on story criteria for games that clearly have a plot, but where the dev obviously gave other stuff like kinks and edgy nonsense more priority than a good plot, good characterisation, or even good spelling and grammar? There's a VN I played a while back and I think it's terrible in a few ways and overrated. It's clear I'm not the audience and the kinks weren't for me, though that wasn't too obvious from the tags, and I don't think low scores are fair just if something has kinks I dislike. But plot and other aspects of writing are like way more fundamental for a VN. I think it's normal that "story fundamentals" have more weight if a game's in a genre where story is important, but should they ever make the difference between 1 and 5 stars?

I guess I'm really asking if I should start giving 1-star reviews. But also how important is story in your ratings, again only for games where this is relevant, and what are your reasons for it?

No I won't name or link the VN.

i sort f95 through ratings so 1 star is too harsh cuz it has the potential to bring down the average.
Negative reviews in itself are fine though.

I'm generalizing here, developers have to choose between two road when making a game, write a game where it's smut-first or write a game where it's story-first. Ultimately, devs need to earn money from their efforts.

My take on this is that reviews should be based on what the game is aiming to be. If it aims to be a smut-first kinda game, then the reviews should be based on that. And vice versa with game that aims to have good story, the reviews are based on the story.

Story is very important in my own personal preference. Especially these days where I don't have as much time to play as I'd like. But if the game doesn't aim to prioritize it's story, instead prioritizing something else, for example Choices for Good Girls Gone Bad, or Smut for Game of Hearts, then both those games doesn't deserve 1-star rating. Negative reviews on the other hand, by all means.

 

[yossa999]

How do you feel about giving negative reviews on story criteria for games that clearly have a plot, but where the dev obviously gave other stuff like kinks and edgy nonsense more priority than a good plot, good characterisation, or even good spelling and grammar? There's a VN I played a while back and I think it's terrible in a few ways and overrated. It's clear I'm not the audience and the kinks weren't for me, though that wasn't too obvious from the tags, and I don't think low scores are fair just if something has kinks I dislike. But plot and other aspects of writing are like way more fundamental for a VN. I think it's normal that "story fundamentals" have more weight if a game's in a genre where story is important, but should they ever make the difference between 1 and 5 stars?

I guess I'm really asking if I should start giving 1-star reviews. But also how important is story in your ratings, again only for games where this is relevant, and what are your reasons for it?

No I won't name or link the VN.

I never write a review unless a game deserves 4-5 stars in my opinion. Why bother, if I don't like the game, ignoring it is always more effective. The "Star Filter" on the downloads page shows games sorted by weighted rating. The fewer reviews, the further the game is from the first page.
I never read or consider 1-star reviews. It's always personal. The author of such review usually feels offended (in most cases it's just intense butthurt) and tries to get revenge. I read positive reviews, but I only consider those that say something specific. Just exclamations like "Cool game, amazing graphics" to be ignored. I believe that if I would want to play a game I should know what people like about it, it's always more informative than long-ass 1 star complaints about how bad game's dev treated some rando and didn't cater their wishes.
If I start a new game and after a few minutes I realize that it has a maximum of 1 star, I simply delete it and ignore its topic. There are a plenty of fish in the sea. I can spend my time much better than fighting with game's dev and the community of people who like their game. And in my experience, even the weirdest games have their fans who're sincerely like it, so why would I ruin their fun with my negativity?

 

[Gothgirlgames]

i sort f95 through ratings so 1 star is too harsh cuz it has the potential to bring down the average.
Negative reviews in itself are fine though.

I'm generalizing here, developers have to choose between two road when making a game, write a game where it's smut-first or write a game where it's story-first. Ultimately, devs need to earn money from their efforts.

My take on this is that reviews should be based on what the game is aiming to be. If it aims to be a smut-first kinda game, then the reviews should be based on that. And vice versa with game that aims to have good story, the reviews are based on the story.

Story is very important in my own personal preference. Especially these days where I don't have as much time to play as I'd like. But if the game doesn't aim to prioritize it's story, instead prioritizing something else, for example Choices for Good Girls Gone Bad, or Smut for Game of Hearts, then both those games doesn't deserve 1-star rating. Negative reviews on the other hand, by all means.

I agree with you really, i wish i had more experience when i started, i tried to smut, and story, snd now i feel like i failed both, it's frustrating.

 

[Tlaero]

I see a lot of reviews that rate various aspects of the game and then give an overall rating based on that. It might be something like:
Graphics: A-
Choices: B
Story: A
Replayability: B
English: A-
Overall 4 stars.

Etc.

I think that if you do that, you're in your right to call out story as you see fit.

But, if you want to help the Dev, the most important thing is thoughtful, constructive feedback. And, realistically, that feedback is better given in the thread where there can be a discussion about it than in a review.

Tlaero

 

[MalkavianVamp]

I agree with you really, i wish i had more experience when i started, i tried to smut, and story, snd now i feel like i failed both, it's frustrating.

Your game is great just focus on improving story going foward

 

[camube]

I agree with you really, i wish i had more experience when i started, i tried to smut, and story, snd now i feel like i failed both, it's frustrating.

I think the problem with some AVN devs (other than daz render times) is scope creep.
Even DPC, or should i say after Ep 9 and 10, particularly DPC. Scope creep makes development time longer than it already is also due to devs not being able to make a living from this.

As long as you don't fall into the trap of scope creep, whether or not you want to revisit and retouch early chapters (Arson Betrayal, No Such Luck, and Our Red String do that) or finish one game, build your reputation as dev that is able to complete a game, and make another one is up to you.

Don't think too much about sunk cost. The past is the past but you can still decide what you want to do for the future.

 

[Gothgirlgames]

I think the problem with some AVN devs (other than daz render times) is scope creep.
Even DPC, or should i say after Ep 9 and 10, particularly DPC. Scope creep makes development time longer than it already is also due to devs not being able to make a living from this.

As long as you don't fall into the trap of scope creep, whether or not you want to revisit and retouch early chapters (Arson Betrayal, No Such Luck, and Our Red String do that) or finish one game, build your reputation as dev that is able to complete a game, and make another one is up to you.

Don't think too much about sunk cost. The past is the past but you can still decide what you want to do for the future.

At least it's something i don't suffer with.

i'm a REAL pragmatic person i like to plan everything beforehand.

so i planned for 3 chapers, the ammount of scenes bettwen the chapters, and a careful use of flags to make sure the story development make sense while still giving the player the option what to do first.

 

[_SomeOneElse_]

Hallo jufot

I think the following games could match your criteria of the first post:

- The Survival of Sarah Rose is a fantasy/medieval VN about a young princess and severity of the regency with many story branches, decision matters and each of the different routes follow the major plot in the background. I didn't play all of them yet (and might not at all like the slave route), but the warrior / sorceress / queen paths should fit your requirements. As far as I remember, it is possible for her to have one or multiple partner (men and women) based on the players decisions (might be important for some of the folks here).

- Frostshade is a VN about a assassin/reaper (somewhat a john wick style) and the demons of the past (nothing precise is known yet), the 3th update is out (4th for patreons) and only story and character building for now ... could be a good fit.

- Instinct Unleashed is a VN about a futa bartender (at least that's how the story starts) with a troubled past. In contrast to many other games of the futaverse this one focus on story build and characters. She is dominant but considers her actions (used as opt-out point in the vn) and doesn't force anyone into anything or act without consent.

 

[MalkavianVamp]

Iam not gay but the gay game straight by aaryn changed my perspective since I hate gay games but this one has great story which was a surprise and can work without sexual content,the connection btwn main characters was great, can't wait for updates,it is deserving of it's 4.9 rating,mind....blown

 

[jufot]

I'm back with two more recommendations.

Fairwood Retreat 87 is a 1980s lesbian summer camp slasher. There is no harem and - unlike most FMC games - no sexual violence, but it'll apparently be a gruesome horror show with plenty of dark and disturbing situations. I'm a big fan of campy horror and this game is looking very promising. The dev is very active and appreciative, so go over to the game thread and say hello.

The Silver Lining is the story of Mila and her Eastern European family of refugees settling in the United States in the 1940s. Mila works as a secretary to Frank, her father's boss. He's a shady character and just the right amount of charming. We get hints that Frank is involved in some mob stuff brewing in the background. There is also Juliette, an artist who is on the run from her husband. She's Mila's teacher, friend, and potentially something more.

Getting involved with Frank's scheme brings the mob stuff to the forefront and opens up a relationship with Tommy, Frank's 'associate'. On the other hand, you can stay clear of all that and go for a deeper connection with Juliette, which I found a lot more rewarding.

It's a very period appropriate and atmospheric game with gorgeous hand-drawn art. Very unique among AVNs and definitely worth checking out. If you are not convinced, read Éama's review first

--

FR87 is too early in development to be sure, but The Silver Lining has been around for a while so off to the list it goes. The OP has been updated.

 

[Vasin]

The Silver Lining is the snip

Funny, I was about to talk about that one, but went to sleep and you beat me to it. I just played through the game in it's entirety and I do think it's worth playing on the virtue of setting alone, but I have some slight gripes with it.

Aside from numerous typos, the main issue I have is the arcane nature of some paths, like for now, getting with Tommy requires amazing contortion of figuring out that you have to at least entertain the idea of talking to your boss, which is weird since you can meet him beforehand two times and the game gives you no indication that you are already missing content with him. Granted, it might change, since the plot is still early and it could give you more natural entrances into relationships with different characters at a later date, but for now it could be better

Second is that I feel like there's a big quality difference in progression between lesbian option and 2 straight options. I suppose that's fine since that's what most people on this site will go for, oh well. It's not that they're written worse, they're fine, but it brings me to my next gripe and it's that I don't particularly like any of the characters. Like, I don't hate them, but I don't care about any of them much at all. My favourite one so far is the mother, honestly, (I can see the reason some people are requesting incest in the thread, lmao) and the storyline I'm the most invested in is figuring out what's going on at the butcher shop.

And the final issue is absolutely glacial pace of development. The game has possibly the best setup for writing stuff quickly, with preset backgrounds and character sprites but it's still at roughly 30 minutes of content after a year of development. It gives me impression of constantly dangling at the precipice of abandonment.

 

[jufot]

Funny, I was about to talk about that one, but went to sleep and you beat me to it. [snip]

Agreed on Tommy's path. It's too convoluted and relies on Frank a bit too much, but I don't know how the dev could change that without entirely side lining Frank, which would be bad for the story.

Second is that I feel like there's a big quality difference in progression between lesbian option and 2 straight options. I suppose that's fine since that's what most people on this site will go for, oh well.

As in, the lesbian option is worse? It's the opposite for me. I adore Juliette's path. I don't care much for Tommy, and I'm only interested in Frank to the extent that his mob dealings are about to cause some massive drama.

My favourite one so far is the mother, honestly, (I can see the reason some people are requesting incest in the thread, lmao)

I have a love/hate relationship with her. She's minimally abusive, and too old-fashioned for her own good, but her heart is in the right place. That is exactly the stereotypical eastern European mother

the storyline I'm the most invested in is figuring out what's going on at the butcher shop.

If you investigate the files left for Frank, you'll see that the butcher shop is just a money laundering front which I assume is what causes trouble with "the families" mentioned by the boss at the night club.

 

[Vasin]

As in, the lesbian option is worse? It's the opposite for me. I adore Juliette's path. I don't care much for Tommy, and I'm only interested in Frank to the extent that his mob dealings are about to cause some massive drama.

No, I agree with you, Juliette's path has a way more natural progression to it, as opposed to the only path that offers some content of "wham, bam, thank you maam" nature with Tommy.

I have a love/hate relationship with her. She's minimally abusive, and too old-fashioned for her own good, but her heart is in the right place. That is exactly the stereotypical eastern European mother

Given that's it's 40's and her age, I don't see her as old fashioned. I was born in the 90s and my grandparents weren't far off. Hell, I know of some people like her today and they aren't Eastern European. Besides, I have nothing against a stereotype done well.

If you investigate the files left for Frank, you'll see that the butcher shop is just a money laundering front which I assume is what causes trouble with "the families" mentioned by the boss at the night club.

Oh yeah I know that, I meant there are hints that MC's father might be doing some risky things for Frank and the nature of those things isn't particularly clear

 

[jufot]

Oh yeah I know that, I meant there are hints that [...]

Oh, definitely. I expect Mila will have to help rescue her dad from whatever that mess is, especially if she's on Tommy's path.

 

[Jaike]

It looks like the discussion after my question became more about the purpose of reviews in general than about the role of story criteria in reviews. Though I got part of my question answered, people here don't like 1 star reviews much.

I guess my question comes from a sense that parts like plot and characterisation are an inevitable and fundamental aspect of any story and it's hard to avoid it even in a porny minimalist walking sim or RPG. It would have to be a complete puzzle or action game to avoid any story elements. Anyway what I got from the responses here is that people feel that a horrible, dysfunctional story isn't by itself enough reason for 1 star.

But I gotta say, I like how my reviews are like the opposite of the review suggestions.

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I agree with you really, i wish i had more experience when i started, i tried to smut, and story, snd now i feel like i failed both, it's frustrating.

Your game was released here in January. I don't think you should feel like you failed, you have a lot of time and chances to improve.

Fairwood Retreat 87 is a 1980s lesbian summer camp slasher. There is no harem and - unlike most FMC games - no sexual violence, but it'll apparently be a gruesome horror show with plenty of dark and disturbing situations. I'm a big fan of campy horror and this game is looking very promising. The dev is very active and appreciative, so go over to the game thread and say hello.

Thanks for this rec, I added this to my watchlist. Let's see how it is in a few months and if it isn't too gory for me.

 

[365 others]

Is there an updated list of the recommendations being shared here? I went through most of the ones listed in the OP just to find that many of them are now abandoned (if not the most).

 

[Jaike]

Is there an updated list of the recommendations being shared here? I went through most of the ones listed in the OP just to find that many of them are now abandoned (if not the most).

Here's an edited list where I took out the definitely abandoned games and marked all the completed ones with C. I could tell there were way more completed games than abandoned games. I marked Elvensang as "abandoned?" because it was abandoned not long ago and then restarted.

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And here's a link to kotte's list.

 

[365 others]

Here's an edited list where I took out the definitely abandoned games and marked all the completed ones with C. I could tell there were way more completed games than abandoned games. I marked Elvensang as "abandoned?" because it was abandoned not long ago and then restarted.

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And here's a link to kotte's list.

Thanks a lot!

 

[kotte]

And here's a link to kotte's list.

A good suggestion! I updated my list with small badges that say if the game is completed or abandoned. I look for the blue or orange tag before the games name on the game's OP to select, which means that these will come and go if the game's thread gets updated.

There is also

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[jufot]

Oracle and Bone, developers of A Summer's End, have a new

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out about their upcoming game, In the Ocean I Learned to Float. Here's a little teaser